Hey there! After more than a year of inactivity, I've convinced my three friends to give D&D another go (stuff just kinda fell apart last time) and we're kicking off Savage Tide tomorrow afternoon. Do you guys have any quick tips or suggestions I should keep in mind?

Relevant information:

We are playing under Pathfinder rules, but I will only be converting important NPCs (i.e. Rowyn, Lavina, Vanthus, 'boss' encounters) due to rules similarity.

I have a 3-man group; the lower-than-average size should help offset the Pathfinder power increase nicely, as far as I can tell.

Nick Cochurrs, Paladin 1 - This guy is in it for the fun, and the fun, for him, is being outrageous. He's generally the instigator of the silly, although I've requested that he try and tone it down a bit on behalf of the Warmage's player. He can be very serious if necessary, but, well - let's just say this is the guy who wants to use Leadership to attract monstrous crab cohorts. (Or something weird like that.)

Breel Ceu, Monk 1 - This guy is the math nerd and resident rules junkie in the group. He's not a rules lawyer, really - a bit of a min/maxer, but he knows when to stop to keep the game fun/fair for everyone. If I have a rules question, he's the go-to guy. Fun fact: his name is an anagram for Bruce Lee.

Kyril Targaryen, Warmage 1 - The resident serious guy is in it to be serious. Sure, he'll laugh along with everyone when Monty Python inevitably gets quoted - but the Paladin's player tends to get on his nerves a bit. Nothing I can't alleviate. I am using a variation of Warmage found on these boards; I can't find the link, but the basic premise is that it gives Warmages a Sorceror Bloodline OR one step better BAB and HD. Our friend here took the Red Draconic bloodline (he likes dragons, a lot).

One major question: is there any one adventure (or more) in Savage Tide that can be excised outright? Not for lack of quality or anything, simply to make the arc as a whole that much shorter. When it comes to quality, I've heard "Wells of Darkness" kinda sucks - other than that, I dunno.

TL,DR: Paladin in it for the fun, Monk in it for the power game, Warmage in it for the serious business. Feed me your tips, please.
Thanks.

As far as cutting...
In the first episode "There is no Honor", you could skip the bulk of the Lotus Dragons hideout (keeping only Rowyn's apartment and the clues there).

As far as cutting...
In the first episode "There is no Honor", you could skip the bulk of the Lotus Dragons hideout (keeping only Rowyn's apartment and the clues there).

I liked the Lotus hideout - it was the first dungeon-type location and helped my group settle into their roles. I had great fun with the Lotus massing for attacks and getting beaten back. In fact, a lot of really memorable stuff happened there in my game that defined the personalities of the characters.

Also, a lot of stuff came up, a lot of rules got clarified and the whole game settled down. There are some great NPCs in there too, and you can start getting used to your players surprising you :-)

(Mine sneaked in by boat after interrogating an Ixit, then stuffed it in a rainbarrel for the Watch to find.)

Be aware that there is a point in the first adventure when the players face down one of the villans, she will offer them a choise to join her instead of trying to kill here, if they take that choise the whole adventure path changes to be somthing quit different.

as for cutting stuff, then the long trip to the island of dread can be shortened down a bit, but remember if shock and suspence effects are going to work you cant have every sceen be about action.

Be aware that there is a point in the first adventure when the players face down one of the villans, she will offer them a choise to join her instead of trying to kill here, if they take that choise the whole adventure path changes to be somthing quit different.

as for cutting stuff, then the long trip to the island of dread can be shortened down a bit, but remember if shock and suspence effects are going to work you cant have every sceen be about action.

Instead of cutting an adventure off, I'd clip off stuff from different adventures to make the campaign shorter.
E.G. Fewer missions in the Isle of Dread before the showdown with Vanthus' fleet (you can rule that the party carries out half and the Jade Ravens the other half)

Be careful though, I did play the first five adventures with PF beta rules characters (party of 4, druid, necromancer, paladin and rogue/bard) without converting monsters and some spots are still pretty tough (I am thinking of There Be Monsters in particular). If things start getting too hard for your PCs, get them some cohort or temporary sidekick (the campaign is full of good candidates).

Be aware that there is a point in the first adventure when the players face down one of the villans, she will offer them a choise to join her instead of trying to kill here, if they take that choise the whole adventure path changes to be somthing quit different.

as for cutting stuff, then the long trip to the island of dread can be shortened down a bit, but remember if shock and suspence effects are going to work you cant have every sceen be about action.

For cutting down stuff... given the fewer number of PCs in the OP's campaign, I'd suggest cutting down the number of mooks, or eliminating extraneous semi-random encounters on Sea Wyvern's Wake. The flotsam ooze, for example, is the blobby king of seemingly arbitrary "wake up and die!" encounters. *grin*

LOL - and when you only play every two weeks it's no fun to have a war of attrition. Wave after wave of Vine Horrors entangling everybody for three hours at a time gets old quickly ;-)

Some very nice suggestions at my own short notice - thanks, everybody! I shall make a list here:

@ Andreas Skye: Clippings bits here and there does seem to be the best way to go about it after a bit more reading.

As for your cohort suggestion: the Monk wants to take Leadership and the Paladin loves having 'friends' (read: he once spent forever trying to Handle Animal a monstrous crab to make it his pet, then upon succeeding, carried it around in his backpack). So that's a GREAT idea! I'll see how the encounters go.

@ Kurukami: I haven't read all of the campaign in depth just yet (familiar with basic structure/setpiece encounters + all of TINH) and upon reading that ooze, it does seem kinda silly.

@ Carborundum: Thanks for bringing that up - I forgot to mention we are a bi-weekly group.

In four hours or so, the gang will be here and the dice will roll. I know from experience that Rhagodessas are not fun at all - we'll see how grappling spiders turn out this time!

I'm currently running Savage Tide for the 2nd Time.

I wouldn't change anything in 'There is no Honor'.

I also wouldn't change anything in 'The Bullywug Gambit'. Wait...I did get rid of the stiltwalker attack. I think you can lose that.

In 'The Sea Wyvern's Wake', both the Flotsam Ooze and the Hydra can be safely skipped. You could also eliminate the whole Rowyn subplot there if you wanted, though it can be fun (but difficult to pull off well). I would definitely keep Tamoachan, Journey's End, and the subplot with Father Feres.

In 'Here there be Monsters', I would not lose the T-Rex, or Olangtru/the Demogorgon Shrine. Dark Mountain Pass, the Terror Birds, the Gargoyles, and the Aranea are all pretty optional.

That should be enough to get you going! BTW, I don't mean to imply that you _should_ cut the above; just that these encounters are pretty optional. Also, I really think that the sea wyvern needs to get in a massive pirate battle on the way to the Isle of Dread -- my suggestion would be to really beef up the blockade fight - the suggested pirates in that fight are a joke.

Ken

Good luck with STAP. My group had a lot of fun with it. It is still my favorite of the Dungeon APs. I also had a three person group occasionally augmented with various rotating guest stars that I gave a player to control most of the time. As for cutting stuff from the adventures the first half as written I found was good. I excised filler encounters here and there but nothing much more. I even added in side treks during Sea Wyvern's Wake.

Once you get past the Isle of Dread part then I started cutting or folding things in together. I actually had the campaign end with a significantly revised Serpents of Scuttlecove that included elements of Into the Maw, and some of the other abyssal adventures. The campaign was fun but I didn't think the group was too eager for high level play. The abyssal adventures were well done but they are also the easiest to jettison.

Thanks for the suggestions, kenmckinney and B_Wiklund. The Monk's player, especially, is eager for high-level play, and the Warmage can't wait to grow wings; doesn't mean we can't end around 18th or so.

The game kicks off in thirty minutes when everyone arrives. A final question: is the lack of a full caster going to be a problem? I may have to suggest to the Warmage that he get scrolls like Teleport, etc. (at appropriate levels) so that the party's available utility is not underwhelming.

The Warmage's player always wants to play a 'gish' - having been raised on a steady diet of one-man computer RPGs (his favorite is Oblivion), he's used to being able to fight AND cast, and this comes out in his class choices; unfortunately this usually results in an underwhelming base of arcane power for our parties.

Thanks for the suggestions, kenmckinney and B_Wiklund. The Monk's player, especially, is eager for high-level play, and the Warmage can't wait to grow wings; doesn't mean we can't end around 18th or so.

The game kicks off in thirty minutes when everyone arrives. A final question: is the lack of a full caster going to be a problem? I may have to suggest to the Warmage that he get scrolls like Teleport, etc. (at appropriate levels) so that the party's available utility is not underwhelming.

The Warmage's player always wants to play a 'gish' - having been raised on a steady diet of one-man computer RPGs (his favorite is Oblivion), he's used to being able to fight AND cast, and this comes out in his class choices; unfortunately this usually results in an underwhelming base of arcane power for our parties.

Tip for the first few sessions - when they are meeting Lavinia play up how sweet her halfling maid Kora is. Have her ask the players what their favourite flavour of tea is, offer the skinniest character a 'square' meal "cos he needs a bit of meat on him before the weather turns", and generally do nice granny stuff.

I actually think this campaign can play better without a primary arcane caster. It's nice for PCs to really be isolated (unable to teleport back to town) when they hit the isle of dread. With Teleport, the whole 'we are shipwrecked' thing pretty much goes away.

Also, it's a swashbuckling campaign and I think that in this type of campaign keeping the PCs swimming, climbing, jumping, and walking rather than flying around for as long as possible is very thematic.

Keep in mind that even if they do get Teleport teleporting back to sasserine won't be possible at first due to the 1800 mile distance. Definitely don't mention this if they don't think of it; if you can get your wizard to the Isle of Dread without him having memorized any intermediate locations to teleport to that will be great!

Good luck!

Ken

I actually think this campaign can play better without a primary arcane caster. It's nice for PCs to really be isolated (unable to teleport back to town) when they hit the isle of dread. With Teleport, the whole 'we are shipwrecked' thing pretty much goes away.

Also, it's a swashbuckling campaign and I think that in this type of campaign keeping the PCs swimming, climbing, jumping, and walking rather than flying around for as long as possible is very thematic.

Keep in mind that even if they do get Teleport teleporting back to sasserine won't be possible at first due to the 1800 mile distance. Definitely don't mention this if they don't think of it; if you can get your wizard to the Isle of Dread without him having memorized any intermediate locations to teleport to that will be great!

Good luck!

Ken

I agree with you, as a swashbuckling themed adventure the Savage Tide is immensely fun. But we are talking about 5 levels of limited to no upgrades to equipment and, unless they take crafting skills, another 5 levels of the same or they must endure the 6 month delay on round trips to Sasserine. Really depends on your players I guess.

Well, the first session went very well!

The only thing that I didn't really expect was the Warmage keeping Lavinia's sack of 100 platinum (totally not a Good thing to do, not even Chaotic Good; I'll have to mention that to him).

The Paladin surprised me with some nice roleplaying skills and the monk took a near-death experience well.

I'm thinking about doing a campaign journal, actually - writing is fun!

Also, I really think that the sea wyvern needs to get in a massive pirate battle on the way to the Isle of Dread -- my suggestion would be to really beef up the blockade fight - the suggested pirates in that fight are a joke.

Keep in mind that even if they do get Teleport teleporting back to sasserine won't be possible at first due to the 1800 mile distance. Definitely don't mention this if they don't think of it; if you can get your wizard to the Isle of Dread without him having memorized any intermediate locations to teleport to that will be great!

Well, the first session went very well!

The only thing that I didn't really expect was the Warmage keeping Lavinia's sack of 100 platinum (totally not a Good thing to do, not even Chaotic Good; I'll have to mention that to him).

The Paladin surprised me with some nice roleplaying skills and the monk took a near-death experience well.

I'm thinking about doing a campaign journal, actually - writing is fun!

Lemme guess, the rhagodessa got the Monk?

Happens a lot, I hear (PC monk in my game had a little trouble with the "deathbug").

Take it easy and give them time. With fewer players, they'll need the higher levels, so don't skimp on them. If things start to get too easy on them, cut things out and advance the story at the expense of some fluff encounters, thus making things a little harder (those fluff encounters have much of the xp and loot).

And miss getting eaten by the crocodile? =D

<other stuff>

The game kicks off in thirty minutes when everyone arrives. A final question: is the lack of a full caster going to be a problem? I may have to suggest to the Warmage that he get scrolls like Teleport, etc. (at appropriate levels) so that the party's available utility is not underwhelming.

<other stuff>

Last I checked, Warmages don't get access to the Teleport spells, nor do they get the Use Magic Device skill.

If the Warmage did put skill points into the Use Magic Device skill, it would still require a DC 29 check to activate a Teleport scroll at the minimum caster level of 9 (which would cost 1,125 gp, only cover 900 miles, and be subject to the possibility of error). Many scrolls (4 per round trip?) will be needed if the party wants to make frequent shopping trips to Sasserine, with the corresponding greater chance of error ...

One possibility would be that the Warmage used the Eclectic Learning alternative class feature (PH2, p. 67) to add the Teleport spell to his class spell list (in place of one of his Advanced Learning slots). However, that would make Teleport a L 6 spell (instead of L 5) - so a Warmage would only be able to add it at Warmage 16. In that case, he might as well use the Eclectic Learning to add Greater Teleport to his class spell list (as a L 8 spell) instead.

One good piece of advice is to check this forum about the shipwreck. There are a lot of tips there to keep things going without the PCs getting the idea that they are being railroaded.

What I noticed during play, was that the Vanthus plot easily gets forgotten during The Sea Wyvern's Wake/Here there be Monsters. So I added some reminders during these adventures, such as a PC dreaming of Vanthus mutating into some sort of demon.

Huzza's goblin'o'war is a nice encounter to add. Unfortunately for me I had already used it in a previous campaign.

If you have Stormwrack, you could check out the encounter with the Sable Drake, which is tactically a very nice pirate encounter.

I hope you have lots of fun with this campaign. I consider it the best campaign I ever did so far.

I personally find the no-teleport option too limiting... As soon as the party realizes that they're up against demon stuff, they would like to acquire or craft specialized weapons... And Farshore is quite small for that at the beginning and it takes long for the town to grow.
Actually, getting an intermediate location is not that far, though a bit risky, if the wizard scries upon a given landmark they've passed (say, Tamoachan, or one of the outposts). For a 9th level wizard, though, that requires 4 days for a roundtrip journey (unless she's at 20 Int). You definitely do not want to lose such a useful character during Tides of Dread for much time, so one trip would be OK and quite in-spirit: we did send the wizard back to retrieve some much needed material components and a couple items which could help in a pirate raid.
Access to scrolls seems important if you face character death (and do not go for replacements) given the absence of a cleric in your party (we had the same issue). Same goes for scrolls of Restoration in case of ability or level drain, etc, etc.
It's good to feel the isolation (and growing prosperity) of Farshore, but try not to cripple the party too much!

My players specifically scouted a spot halfway between Sasserine and Farshore as a relay point for teleport. I used that as an adventure hook for the scenario Dragon Hunters (Dungeon #104), which gave them their first dinosaur encounter. They also ended up taking Prince Henri and his people along to Farshore. Having eaten about 1/3 of the food they brought, there was now both room and food to spare for them. The added military might came in handily later, but also created a problem in the relationship between Farshore and Fort Henri as Henri and crew made their own plantation-style settlement in the center of Tamute. Which in turn gave the players someplace to put the prisoners from the pirate raid... And so on and so forth. Good times were had!

as far as the 1st couple of adventures go, you can snip here and there, and be selective of which encounters you run. Keep the overall structure, just lose a handful of mooks here, or diamondback there (as has been mentioned)

When you get to Sea Wyvern's Wake, I recommend a significant change. Lose the "stuff happens on your way there, then you get stuck" plot. In fact, I would probably lose the Sargasso deal altogether. Get some pirate-fights and boat chases in there, perhaps some aquatic monsters tossed in, and finally a hard-won respite on some small, deserted isle.

Where Avner pisses off the locals...

Here There Be Monsters, I would run pretty much as-is. Again, lose 1 or 2 mooks per fight, and really play up the non-combat type encounters there (Olangru creepiness, Aranea inviting you in for tea, etc...)

Tides of Dread, my favorite Module so far, I would keep just as is. Let the PC's really invest time and energy into Farshore and its defense; the town (and NPC's) will really stand out in their minds.

the Golismorga adventure, I would start with the Turtle, breeze through the Troglodytes (they're pushovers for that level anyways, why waste table-time chewing through them), and straight into Golismorga. I would have the Aboleth guy somewhere right close to the water-barrier, and work hard to trick the party. My group fought him, and knew everything they could about the Tear etc...

The rest of that adventure, I would keep as is.

From City of Broken Idols on, it works best if you keep the pressure up on the PC's. Yes, they're picking apart the delivery mechanism, yes, they stopped the creation, but the rest of those boomies are still out there. There is a lot of potential for dramatic tension here, which we really missed out on.

General Tips:

Make Lavinia, Kora, and Avner memorable and loveable/hateable NPC's. Urol, Tavey, and Rowyn are all good time investments, as well.

Make the Sea Wyvern come alive. You want them to want to keep their boat. Get them to love it, and the last couple of adventures just got a lot easier to run.

Read up on demons and demon psychology. You will be playing bunches of them, in pretty much every role you can think of, so get familiar with what they can and cannot do.

as far as Warmage goes, if you allow him to take Advanced Learning (not sure if that's the name) for non-evocation spells at 1 spell level higher (ie, Haste as 4th lvl, Teleport as 6th), you get the capability assumed in the Module, with a reasonable trade-off in power. That being said, Teleport is not as necessary in most of the higher level adventures. In fact, several of them are written with the expectation that some amount of travel time will be taking place.

Again, if they keep the Sea Wyvern and are attached to it, the lack / prevalance of teleport won't be all that crazy

my game:

check out the other Campaign Journals, as well as the Obituaries, for useful tips and info all over the place...

-t

My players specifically scouted a spot halfway between Sasserine and Farshore as a relay point for teleport. I used that as an adventure hook for the scenario Dragon Hunters (Dungeon #104), which gave them their first dinosaur encounter. They also ended up taking Prince Henri and his people along to Farshore. Having eaten about 1/3 of the food they brought, there was now both room and food to spare for them. The added military might came in handily later, but also created a problem in the relationship between Farshore and Fort Henri as Henri and crew made their own plantation-style settlement in the center of Tamute. Which in turn gave the players someplace to put the prisoners from the pirate raid... And so on and so forth. Good times were had!

Tides of Dread, my favorite Module so far, I would keep just as is. Let the PC's really invest time and energy into Farshore and its defense; the town (and NPC's) will really stand out in their minds.

1) do your best to keep the vrocks airborne. Smite Evil mows through them.
2) A party with maxed Will saves is going to laugh at Vanthus' attempts at suggestion, unless he's very lucky. Give him some ranged attack for his flying rounds. Having him trying suggestions over and over for a few rounds just leaves him a sitting duck for ranged attacks or spells.
3) Spit the golems! Characters with Greater Cleave may cut them down quite fast. And a paladin giving a flaming or frost enchantment to his weapon will keep them slowed for good.

Those are not big game-breakers, but in my experience made the final battle less of a big struggle against a superior force and more of "let's reap our rewards after running all the missions". There are good threads out there on improving the Tides of Dread battle. Some of them have really good ideas. As it is, it's a really great module (and one which keeps a lot of the old X1 feel for the old timers), but the pirate attack needs much customization to your own party.

The two adventures that I had problems with were Here There Be Monsters and The Lightless Depths. I believe that I've added my suggestions for HTBM in my Campaign journal.

Some quick advice: Make Lavinia lovable, trustworthy, and idealistic. Make her vulnerable and weak at times. Make the players feel like they're her protectors and friends rather then just employees.

I wouldn't worry too much about Vanthus being a pushover in Tides of Dread. This adventure should be all about the pirate battle. Vanthus's role is to lose, and spitefully try to 'take them with him' by dropping his shadow pearl. He doesn't need to be super powerful for that. He just has to have good enough defenses to survive for a few of rounds. Not every adventure needs to have a big 'boss monster' at the end.

Ken

I wouldn't worry too much about Vanthus being a pushover in Tides of Dread. This adventure should be all about the pirate battle. Vanthus's role is to lose, and spitefully try to 'take them with him' by dropping his shadow pearl. He doesn't need to be super powerful for that. He just has to have good enough defenses to survive for a few of rounds. Not every adventure needs to have a big 'boss monster' at the end.

Ken

Some quick advice: Make Lavinia lovable, trustworthy, and idealistic. Make her vulnerable and weak at times. Make the players feel like they're her protectors and friends rather then just employees.

Or take it a step further and make Lavinia get a strong crush/fall in love with one of the PCs. If it's reciproque, you have a strong emotional connection. If not, you have conflict (oops, my boss dotes after me). It also makes relationships between the party and the Jade Ravens a step more... interesting.
I took that option after Tides of Dread... small infatuation which burst into attraction as post-traumatic shock at Vanthus' demonization and death.

Tides of Dread was certainly the most memorable of the adventures in the AP for my group. They had a lot invested in Farshore and the adventure did well to draw many of the features of the Isle of Dread together. In fact the two adventures the followed almost suffered as they didn't feel for my group as 'epic' (particularly the Lightless Depths).
Re the battle for Farshore. It can be a bit of a slog on paper but as long as you keep ratcheting up the drama in the narrative things go well. I added a pair of black dragons to the fleet who came up through the bay underwater as the opening move in the battle. That got the ball rolling nicely. I know I removed a few things but I can't recall offhand.
As for the final battle with Vanthus by the time he shows up the party will in all likelihood be quite battered. I found Vanthus was quite deadly enough for the time he shows up. Stopping him from detonating the pearl was a satisfying climax.

As for Vanthus second appearance, he definitely will need buffing up. I don't recall what I did exactly but as written he is very weak for such a high level party. The shadow demons help but if you don't want Vanthus obliterated in 2 rounds give him a bit more.

Very good tips. I am going to start running Savage Tides in a few weeks and found all the comments wonderful and intend to read the entire Savage Tides message board in the coming week and make notes.

I do have one question though. I use music to heighten mood during my gaming and was wondering who else did this and what music you used for STAP?

Welcome to the STAP board!
Here's a few musical threads to get you started then!

The Book of Eli soundtrack is pretty awesome too.

Welcome to the STAP board!
Here's a few musical threads to get you started then!

The Book of Eli soundtrack is pretty awesome too.

Tides of Dreat is the high point for the first half of the campaign. I think that's why people feel its so good. It can actually make a good ending if you want to run a lower-level game.

To me, the adventure itself was not so great. Oh, I did love the sandbox, but that was by no means unique to Tides of Dread - there are many more things players can do or not at their option before its "all aboard for the railroad to the Abyss".

Not that the railroad in the later parts is so bad - Enemy of my Enemy in particular is very open-ended and has room for a lot of expansion.

Welcome to the STAP board!
Here's a few musical threads to get you started then!

The Book of Eli soundtrack is pretty awesome too.

* The Dark Knight, "Stranger" (great for mood-building of some approaching horror)
* Master & Commander, "Into the Fog" and "Battle"
* Michael Kamen's score to Band of Brothers, "Suite One"
* pretty much the whole score to "Gears of War 2", but particularly "
* James Horner, "Apocalypto"
* Bear McCreary's new Battlestar Galactica scores

And my personal soundtrack for meeting Rowyn Kellani as Lady Lotus:

1. The Usual Suspects, "Redfoot"
2. BSG season 2, "Gina Escapes"
3. BSG season 3, "Dirty Hands"

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I just remembered to check up on this thread after a while, and there sure are a lot of suggestions. Will try and respond to the general ideas.

On Lavinia: I have difficulty playing female characters, if only for the gender divide. Luckily, the paladin seems more than happy to interact with her, something that follows, I suppose, from the player's disposition. This gives me ways to insert more dialogue from her and hopefully I can play up the 'protectors' line of thinking instead of just 'employees'.

On upcoming adventures: I will almost certainly rework the adventure where the party sails to the Isle of Dread (SWW, right?). More pirates and corsairs, less 'creepy ooze thingy that will be hard-as-hell to convey accurately, and bothersome when it comes to combat'.

Same goes for Tides of Dread; I definitely want that to be memorable.

As for Teleport/other utility spells: I'm not too worried. They'll come up with something, I'm sure.

On Rhagodessas: the Monk was actually at 0, so he hung back and let the Warmage toss fire orbs at the death-spider until the Paladin came in for an impressive critical.

ON CAMPAIGN JOURNAL: If anyone is interested, my campaign journal so far is located at http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/lawabidingtrio. Is it acceptable to cross-post this here on the forums?