Paizo Top Nav Branding
Welcome, guest! | Sign In | My Account | My Subscriptions | My Downloads | Shopping Cart   Shopping Cart | Help/FAQ
  Messageboards     News     Products     Resources  




Pathfinder Society
SEARCH


BROWSE
Shop

Messageboards

2010 4e Catalog, 13 seconds ago by Erik Mona

Scrolls and The 3 MetaMagic Feats, 59 seconds ago by Morgen

Do 'plus' weapons bypass DR?, 1 minute ago by Are

Tarlane's Crypt of the Everflame, 2 minutes ago by Manduzi Steelsong

Waste not, want not; eight undead from a single corpse, 2 minutes ago by Set

Devoted Defender [conv from 3.0 Sword and Fist] to PFRPG/3.75, 7 minutes ago by Anthony Kane

Bestiary- Barbed Devil, 7 minutes ago by Are

Dawn of Defiance PbP (Star Wars SAGA), 9 minutes ago by thrikreed

Bradenton, FL; Pathfinder or 3.5, 9 minutes ago by Blood stained Sunday's best

Pathfinder #7—Curse of the Crimson Throne Chapter 1: "Edge of Anarchy" (OGL), 11 minutes ago by James Jacobs

So, anyone up for Scion? - PbP, 11 minutes ago by fray

The Valkyrie Chronicles Discussion, 12 minutes ago by Diviha

The Valkyrie Chronicles, 16 minutes ago by Diviha

Just say no to "really?", 17 minutes ago by Kirth Gersen

Tomb of the Emperor Gods -- PbP, 18 minutes ago by Tarren the Dungeon Master

Dungeon / Messageboards / Savage Tide Adventure Path / Help with the Sea Wyvern, outfitting for the journey     Recent Posts
Help with the Sea Wyvern, outfitting for the journey
cthulhudarren (Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber),

Bear avatar

I'd like some advice, my PCs are getting mercenary about helping Lavinia with this trip. They want her to pay them for all the passengers, and cargo. This doesn't sound too unreasonable. What would be some good prices? Colonists I don't think would have lots of money, they'd be looking to start a new life.
Should I then burden them with the cost of hiring a crew? The one PC who is playing captain doesn't want anything from Lavinia, so I imagine will want to hire and pay his own crew entirely.

Also, the cargo capacity from the SWW I think may not line up with the info in StormWrack. Where did the info (tonnage, etc) for this come from?

Thanks,

Luna eladrin,

A 12-Yvos-Tanguany avatar

In DMG II there is an article about running a business by PCs. Since transporting passengers by ship in this context might be seen as a business, perhaps the prices in this article might give a good indication.

Bellona,

Avatar V avatar

cthulhudarren wrote:
<other stuff>

Also, the cargo capacity from the SWW I think may not line up with the info in StormWrack. Where did the info (tonnage, etc) for this come from?

Thanks,


I had a problem with the math too, until I read the relevant section more carefully.

According to Stormwrack, a caravel has 120 tons of cargo space (p. 98).

According to SWW (Dungeon 141, p. 20), the Sea Wyvern - as a caravel - has 120 tons of cargo capacity:

60 tons of supplies for Farshore

60 tons for ship supplies/other stuff,
_of which_ 10 tons are ship repair supplies, and another 10 tons are food/water/miscellaneous supplies for the ship's passengers/crew, which leaves 40 tons for the PCs to use (although Avner's horse might take 10 tons out of that 40)

So that makes 80 (or 90) tons accounted for, and 40 (or 30) for the PCs to use (although Lavinia would like to use that for more colony supplies). Which equals 120 tons in total.

cthulhudarren (Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber),

Bear avatar

Bellona wrote:
cthulhudarren wrote:
<other stuff>

Also, the cargo capacity from the SWW I think may not line up with the info in StormWrack. Where did the info (tonnage, etc) for this come from?

Thanks,


I had a problem with the math too, until I read the relevant section more carefully.

According to Stormwrack, a caravel has 120 tons of cargo space (p. 98).

According to SWW (Dungeon 141, p. 20), the Sea Wyvern - as a caravel - has 120 tons of cargo capacity:

60 tons of supplies for Farshore

60 tons for ship supplies/other stuff,
_of which_ 10 tons are ship repair supplies, and another 10 tons are food/water/miscellaneous supplies for the ship's passengers/crew, which leaves 40 tons for the PCs to use (although Avner's horse might take 10 tons out of that 40)

So that makes 80 (or 90) tons accounted for, and 40 (or 30) for the PCs to use (although Lavinia would like to use that for more colony supplies). Which equals 120 tons in total.


Thanks. I just looked at it again and agree with you.

What do you think would be a fair price for passengers to Farshore? I laborer costs 1sp per day to hire for a ship, a ships cook about 2sp and a ships officer 5sp. Would it be fair to say 2sp per day per passenger, so 3 months worth is 180sp? It can't be too much different than pay for a sailor, except for supply/demand, of which I guess there is less supply for ships going to Farshore. Passengers with more than personal cargo would cost more.

Bellona,

Avatar V avatar

cthulhudarren wrote:
Thanks. I just looked at it again and agree with you.

What do you think would be a fair price for passengers to Farshore? I laborer costs 1sp per day to hire for a ship, a ships cook about 2sp and a ships officer 5sp. Would it be fair to say 2sp per day per passenger, so 3 months worth is 180sp? It can't be too much different than pay for a sailor, except for supply/demand, of which I guess there is less supply for ships going to Farshore. Passengers with more than personal cargo would cost more.


I couldn't find any info in the SWW from a quick skim, but here are some suggestions:

According to the PHB, in the equipment chapter under Spellcasting and Services, ship's passage costs 1 sp/mile (double that for creatures that are larger than Medium or otherwise difficult to bring on board). The voyage is slated to be over 3,000 miles, which would come out to a cost of over 300 gp/passenger.

That's a steep price for regular folks (who are on the silver standard anyway, not the adventurer's gold standard). I would suggest that Lavinia has some system in place, where she subsidises all or part of the travel costs in return for a commitment to the colony of Farshore (e.g., 10 years of residence). She might also subsidise the cargo costs for bulky/heavy equipment needed by useful craftsmen/whatever.

Avner and his horse, on the other hand ... there is no reason why the PCs couldn't overcharge him for Thunderstrike's passage (i.e., more than 600 gp). Or Avner, for that matter - but then he'd better get that private cabin for himself and his servants! :)

I'm sure that some of the other STAP threads have more ideas, so take a look there too.

cthulhudarren (Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber),

Bear avatar

Bellona wrote:

I couldn't find any info in the SWW from a quick skim, but here are some suggestions:

According to the PHB, in the equipment chapter under Spellcasting and Services, ship's passage costs 1 sp/mile (double that for creatures that are larger than Medium or otherwise difficult to bring on board). The voyage is slated to be over 3,000 miles, which would come out to a cost of over 300 gp/passenger.

That's a steep price for regular folks (who are on the silver standard anyway, not the adventurer's gold standard). I would suggest that Lavinia has some system in place, where she subsidises all or part of the travel costs in return for a commitment to the colony of Farshore (e.g., 10 years of residence). She might also subsidise the cargo costs for bulky/heavy equipment needed by useful craftsmen/whatever.


Thanks for that PHB price, I hadn't seen that. I completely agree that this is very expensive. My players want to keep finances independent of Lavinia, but I suppose Lavinia/Meravanchi's would be subsidizing them. That's a good bit of gold to pay the players though. I'm having around 13 passengers, that'd be about 4,000 gp. The players would have to pay their own crew, but that is pennies (2-5sp per WEEK per crewmember) compared to the income from passengers. There's gotta be a way to make the profit come waaay down, like costs for supplies and such. I wish there were more detailed rules for shipboard economies!

Bellona,

Avatar V avatar

cthulhudarren wrote:
Thanks for that PHB price, I hadn't seen that. I completely agree that this is very expensive. My players want to keep finances independent of Lavinia, but I suppose Lavinia/Meravanchi's would be subsidizing them. That's a good bit of gold to pay the players though. I'm having around 13 passengers, that'd be about 4,000 gp. The players would have to pay their own crew, but that is pennies (2-5sp per WEEK per crewmember) compared to the income from passengers. There's gotta be a way to make the profit come waaay down, like costs for supplies and such. I wish there were more detailed rules for shipboard economies!

Aside from the cost of supplies, you can have the not-too-uncommon problem of shipboard vermin eating away at their food supplies (unless the party remembers to buy a cat). Another way to bleed their profits would be Rowyn's sabotage efforts - not necessarily "Oh no, the ship's about to go down!" (after all, Rowyn wants to survive too), but a constant irritant which just siphons off that much more money from the party coffers. Or how about paying "toll"/tribute to the Crimson Fleet en route to the Isle of Dread?

Or Lavinia could persuade the party to invest in Farshore themselves. That would just add that much extra personal investment (in addition to the monetary one) in the colony.

And if you're feeling really aggressive while DM'ing and happen to off a character or two during combat, well those Raise Dead spells/scrolls/components aren't exactly cheap ...

cthulhudarren (Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber),

Bear avatar

Bellona wrote:
cthulhudarren wrote:
Thanks for that PHB price, I hadn't seen that. I completely agree that this is very expensive. My players want to keep finances independent of Lavinia, but I suppose Lavinia/Meravanchi's would be subsidizing them. That's a good bit of gold to pay the players though. I'm having around 13 passengers, that'd be about 4,000 gp. The players would have to pay their own crew, but that is pennies (2-5sp per WEEK per crewmember) compared to the income from passengers. There's gotta be a way to make the profit come waaay down, like costs for supplies and such. I wish there were more detailed rules for shipboard economies!

Aside from the cost of supplies, you can have the not-too-uncommon problem of shipboard vermin eating away at their food supplies (unless the party remembers to buy a cat). Another way to bleed their profits would be Rowyn's sabotage efforts - not necessarily "Oh no, the ship's about to go down!" (after all, Rowyn wants to survive too), but a constant irritant which just siphons off that much more money from the party coffers. Or how about paying "toll"/tribute to the Crimson Fleet en route to the Isle of Dread?

Or Lavinia could persuade the party to invest in Farshore themselves. That would just add that much extra personal investment (in addition to the monetary one) in the colony.

And if you're feeling really aggressive while DM'ing and happen to off a character or two during combat, well those Raise Dead spells/scrolls/components aren't exactly cheap ...


Bellona, you are awesome, I don't care with everyone says about you. ;-)
These are all great ideas, that assassin on board is gonna cause some havoc. I suppose there is no reason why I couldn't use the same exact stat block as Rowyn for the assassin.

Bellona,

Avatar V avatar

cthulhudarren wrote:
Bellona, you are awesome, I don't care with everyone says about you. ;-)
These are all great ideas, that assassin on board is gonna cause some havoc. I suppose there is no reason why I couldn't use the same exact stat block as Rowyn for the assassin.

Why, thank you, kind sir! <Wonders paranoidly what others are saying about me.> :)

Anyway, good luck with giving them hell on the trip. I take it that you've already looked at the ending and made your own decision as to how to handle it? There have been a couple of good threads on this board about the final storm, etc.

cthulhudarren (Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber),

Bear avatar

Bellona wrote:

Anyway, good luck with giving them hell on the trip. I take it that you've already looked at the ending and made your own decision as to how to handle it? There have been a couple of good threads on this board about the final storm, etc.

I've already decided to wreck the Blue Nixie, and merely do a good bit of damage to the Sea Wyvern. From there, I was going to do something similar to how Belessa's journal has it happen (PCs' must rescue crew from gargoyles and make repairs on their ship, and also move the dark mountain pass encounters to a pyramid where Spider Queen Aranea lives)

I'm really excitedly planning on turning the annoying a%&%%%~ knob on Avner all the way to "11"!

Carl Cramér,

Banba avatar

If the players insist on trying to squeeze the ship economics for money, make them pay risk wages at five to ten times normal rate.

cthulhudarren (Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber),

Bear avatar

Carl Cramér wrote:
If the players insist on trying to squeeze the ship economics for money, make them pay risk wages at five to ten times normal rate.

Good idea!

Dungeon / Messageboards / Savage Tide Adventure Path / Help with the Sea Wyvern, outfitting for the journey All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in, or create a new account.



©2002–2009 Paizo Publishing, LLC®. Need help? Email customer.service@paizo.com or call 425-250-0800 Monday–Friday, 10 AM–5 PM Pacific Time. View our privacy policy. Paizo Publishing, LLC, the Paizo golem logo, GameMastery, Pathfinder, Planet Stories, and Undefeated are registered trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC, and Pathfinder Chronicles, Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Modules, Pathfinder Roleplaying Game, Pathfinder Society, PAIZOCON, RPG Superstar, Titanic Games, the Titanic logo, and the Planet Stories planet logo are trademarks of Paizo Publishing, LLC. Amazing Stories is a trademark of, and Dungeons & Dragons, Dragon, Dungeon, and Polyhedron are registered trademarks of Wizards of the Coast, Inc., a subsidiary of Hasbro, Inc., and are used by Paizo Publishing under license. Most product names are trademarks owned or used under license by the companies that publish those products; use of such names without mention of trademark status should not be construed as a challenge to such status.