Strange, I was thinking along the same lines as Kain. Avner was flattering Lavinia, but she does not want him. That was the reason that he is on the Sea Wyvern. And I am also thinking about Avner having something with Lirith, perhaps even make her pregnant. Hopefully it will stir things up a bit, because my PCs have taken Lirith into their confidence and are sort of friendly with her.

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Tamec wrote:

Kain Darkwind wrote:

They are good aligned, most of them.

To quote Batman "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."

And I remember having to pull avner's butt out of the fire alot on the trip to Farshore. Oh, and my group is beyond good, we're exalted, well at least half the party has exalted feats.

Exalted characters would have to save him. They aren't allowed to stand by and allow evil to happen if they can stop it.

Well, sure, if they stand around and watch him bleed to death or whatever, but usually, the decision of how to allocate healing resources are made on a triage basis. It’s not a morality call if, for example, in the middle of a battle, you see Avner drop in the same round that the Paladin and Mage drop and you prioritize the Paladin and Mage over Avner. It’s just tactics – We’ll all die without the Mage’s protection spells and we’ll all die eventually if we don’t have the paladin to mow down the baddies. Of course, that’s a minimum of two rounds that Avner’s going to bleed out. Add movement through a combat zone and avoiding attacks of opportunity, well, Avner could just be dead by the time you get to him. Wouldn’t that be a shame?

Of course, this is just one hypothetical situation. There are plenty of reasonable situations that even the Best-of-the-Best might be completely justified in “not saving” Avner. Not that I’m advocating the players to actively seek such justification, mind you. I’m just warning DMs not to dismiss the possibility out of hand.

I don't have any exalted players in my game though, so I don't need to worry about that. (Using Pathfinder) Basically, if Avner dies and they tried to save him (or were prevented due to circumstances from saving him), no foul. If they let him die, that isn't good alignment anymore. The difference is conscious choice and circumstances will dictate whether or not the PCs are turning neutral/evil.

Luna, it is funny you say you are going to use Lirith that way...I'm choosing to use her there because my party hasn't bothered to get close to her this trip. I'm trying to make her leave an impact before she dies at the end.

Lavinia and Heinrick (the party fighter) are already lovers. His opening impression on her in There is No Honor was a natural 20 Diplomacy check, so things sort of blossomed from there. He lost his brother to Rowyn, she lost her brother to Rowyn, one thing led to another...

Oh yeah, and Lavinia was pregnant. Until Drevoraz stabbed her in the stomach. So Heinrick and Lavinia lost their unborn child to the Crimson Fleet...Heinrick hadn't even been told yet, she found out while he was gone to Kraken's Cove. He was remarkably upset with Drevoraz about that.

Exalted characters would have to save him.

Kain Darkwind wrote:

Exalted characters would have to save him.

Yeah 3p0 (see above) considers killing any living thing an evil act so killing Temauhti-tecuani was something he argued against the whole time we were hunting him.

Although I can understand. My players know that rats are something to be protected, not killed in my games. Or horrible things will happen to them. But that's just because I have rats as pets.

A T-rex, not so much though. Self defense and all that.

My players thought they had the situation with Avner nicely under control until the group reached Renkrue. The group was received kindly by the Olman and a feast was prepared. When everybody was sitting around the camp fire and eating, Avner suddenly asked whether he could buy a young girl from the village. One of the players at once defended her, and they managed to smoothe the situation. The girl then more or less attached herself to the character who defended her, and they sort of got romantically involved with each other.

We ended the session with the ships leaving Renkrue. I am now thinking about letting the girl swim to the Sea Wyvern, climb on board and hide herself in the bed of this PC. Not only will this give him a problem, but it will also make Avner furious. He will be offended that the girl that he was not allowed to have, is now "given" to someone else, and throw another tantrum again. And perhaps he will try to seduce the girl anyway. I am curious to see what they will do to solve this one...

Well, I have played out the scene as described: the PC in question found the Olman girl in his bed. Avner first went to thank the PC captain because "she had still managed to buy the girl for him". The captain did not really react, but just smiled. Later the other PC warned the captain not to touch "his girl".

Now the PCs are on a mission near the isle of Ruja. The Sea Wyvern and the Blue Nixie are lying anchored near the isle. So there is no PC on board at the moment.

The PC who found the Olman girl in his bed, asked Amella to protect her against Avner while he was away. Moreover, this PC has a close friendship with Skald, who will also not allow anything to happen to the girl. Avner therefore will probably not dare an open confrontation. But neither will he do nothing. He will want to make use of the absence of the PCs somehow.

What would Avner do in such a situation?

Well, I have played out the scene as described: the PC in question found the Olman girl in his bed. Avner first went to thank the PC captain because "she had still managed to buy the girl for him". The captain did not really react, but just smiled. Later the other PC warned the captain not to touch "his girl".

Now the PCs are on a mission near the isle of Ruja. The Sea Wyvern and the Blue Nixie are lying anchored near the isle. So there is no PC on board at the moment.

The PC who found the Olman girl in his bed, asked Amella to protect her against Avner while he was away. Moreover, this PC has a close friendship with Skald, who will also not allow anything to happen to the girl. Avner therefore will probably not dare an open confrontation. But neither will he do nothing. He will want to make use of the absence of the PCs somehow.

What would Avner do in such a situation?

The characters can return and deal with a young woman about to kill him, for example... ^_^

That would be a nice solution :-) And unexpected. They think she is just a young and innocent girl. But she is Olman of course.

That would be a nice solution :-) And unexpected. They think she is just a young and innocent girl. But she is Olman of course.

Well, who knows! I was intending to let Avner mutter a bit about Olman witches :-)

Btw, Canada.....wtf? You have a party full of evil characters or something? I just read through that and....geez...that's beyond nasty. Sounds like something out of the BoVD playbook.

Anyhoo, I suppose the squeaky-cleans among us here will be thrilled to hear that they have made an improvement as of late in their efforts for rehabilation. When the pcs exited the Olman tomb, Avner was killed by one of the monstrous crabs. In an act of unexpected goodwill, the druid reincarnated Avner (free of charge too). :)

Of course, the hooligans among us here will no doubt be laughing to hear that Avner was reincarnated as an orc and the pcs now refer to him as "Orcner." The druid was crestfalled though. She was hoping that Avner would have been reincarnated as a shocker lizard that she could have adopted as an animal companion to show him what it is like to be someone else's property. Understandably, Orcner is now somewhat...er, not himself, and has taken to long periods of depression and sulking. Only time will tell when the rage will burst forth from the depths of his tortured soul.

This saturday I will run the group through the mountain highway and the beginnings of Fogmire. I expect nothing in the hopes that whatever my players do will not either gross me out or cause me to question their sanity more than I already have. ;)

CB Out.

Our Avner survived through shear luck - he went through a bit of transformation. Instead of being a bigoted, sexist arrogant useless fop, He became a arrogant, sexist effective cavalryman.

The party had refused to allow him to bring his horse on-board... when he insisted trying to pull rank the party introduced him and Thunderstrike to Churtle the ships cook. Churtle then described how tasty barbecued horse was. Thunderstrike was left in Sasserine.

After Surviving all the horrors on the way to Farshore and watching the Olman druid Zacote tame a terror bird and use it as a mount. Avner decided he was going to raise and command the First Farshore Terror bird company, only 5 were ready for ToD but they were dashing and helped take some pressure off the party at the right time.

It meant he had to work with the Olmans and he kind of went a bit native. The party hates it but they had a grudging respect for him.

The group's priest (who really hates Avner) took the dead human body of Avner (who got reincarnated into an orc by the group's druid) and decided to use it to spring traps in the Shrine of Demogorgon (HTBM). Avner naturally objected to the taking of his original body but the priest made a strong point (specifically, he made his point by using the sharp end of his dire pick).

So, every 10 feet, the priest throws the corpse 10 feet. He even used the body atop the altar (where the mirrors are) and knowingly set off the fire trap. He threw the body against the stone thrones, propped the body in the stone throne as it becomes covered with fresh blood. He even threw the body against the mirrors, to do what, I don't know, except maybe to pulverize the bones.

The end result (and they have only just finished figuring out how to use the mirrors properly) is a bodysack full of burnt and shattered bones. I honestly don't know why he does this. Well, I mean, I do know why but I have never seen the players have this much contempt for a npc. I've roleplayed really evil npcs in the past and the treatment they got is nothing compared to what Avner, a mere arrogant noble npc, is getting. What the hell did I do wrong (right?) when I roleplayed the introduction for Avner? I seriously feel bad for Avner as the trials and tribulations of his life is not over yet. :(

CB out.

The group's priest (who really hates Avner) took the dead human body of Avner (who got reincarnated into an orc by the group's druid) and decided to use it to spring traps in the Shrine of Demogorgon (HTBM). Avner naturally objected to the taking of his original body but the priest made a strong point (specifically, he made his point by using the sharp end of his dire pick).

So, every 10 feet, the priest throws the corpse 10 feet. He even used the body atop the altar (where the mirrors are) and knowingly set off the fire trap. He threw the body against the stone thrones, propped the body in the stone throne as it becomes covered with fresh blood. He even threw the body against the mirrors, to do what, I don't know, except maybe to pulverize the bones.

The end result (and they have only just finished figuring out how to use the mirrors properly) is a bodysack full of burnt and shattered bones. I honestly don't know why he does this. Well, I mean, I do know why but I have never seen the players have this much contempt for a npc. I've roleplayed really evil npcs in the past and the treatment they got is nothing compared to what Avner, a mere arrogant noble npc, is getting. What the hell did I do wrong (right?) when I roleplayed the introduction for Avner? I seriously feel bad for Avner as the trials and tribulations of his life is not over yet. :(

CB out.

While I find your players' antics with Avner's carcass highly entertaining, having such callous disgregard for the deceased - especially since his reincarnated self has apparently lodged a strong protest - sets two concerns to mind.

First, the alignment concern - what impact in your campaign will doing so have?

Second, and far more important, in a demon-themed campaign what will these actions towards Avner's "former body" have on his psyche? Will Avner perhaps become more open to demonic possession - say, by Olangru once the PCs smite him mightily, or as an avenue for Malcanthet or worse - creating a potentially powerful Agent of Evil, one created by their own hand?

Oh, the priest is definitely turning evil. Which is not that big a deal yet. No one in the party is actually good. Most are CN or N (well, that one is dead now). And the priest turning evil doesn't go against his faith yet (he worships the oceans and the ways of being a sailor as a model of how to live your life piously).

I'm keeping track of everything he does. ;)

CB out.

Oh, the priest is definitely turning evil. Which is not that big a deal yet. No one in the party is actually good. Most are CN or N (well, that one is dead now). And the priest turning evil doesn't go against his faith yet (he worships the oceans and the ways of being a sailor as a model of how to live your life piously).

** spoiler omitted **

I'm keeping track of everything he does. ;)

CB out.

As of a recent shift in my party makeup - went from being a mostly mercenary type party except for one LG Dvati Monk team to a couple of VoP chars and a highly honorable/Lawful "ninja" type Rogue, with only the greedy assassin-ish Gnome Lurk remaining of the original group - I have a feeling my party will have little patience for an arrogant noble fop with too much money on his hands. Heck, they're only working for Lavinia because they've decided "it's the right thing to do" and Vanthus needs to be brought to justice for his many crimes (which the Gnome happily plans to expound upon in greater detail when she gets a chance).

We're a ways away from Avner yet (wrapping up TINH) but I already imagine he will give them quite a lot of frustration, especially given the two VoP types will not be able to silence him violently so they may have to get creative as to how to deal with him without "breaking the rules".

Avner is really fun to play. Enjoy!

At first the captain, the halfling Orbee, gave up his cabin to Avner and didn't pitch much of a fit about Thunderstrike.

But Avner got bossier and bossier. Orbee, being an ex-slave doesn't cotton to nobility too much and started to make very public threats. The crew, out in BFE, not sure of where they were or were going, clung to anything familiar, even Avner's aristocracy over an ex-slave captain.

Lavinia came over and tensions eased off of the explosion, but tempers were still very close to the surface.

Then they got to Renkrue. The Olman chief wanted two-months of servitude for Avner's insolence. The PC's let them have Avner. And didn't tell Lavinia. As she was on the Blue Nixie, she didn't find out (and she sees Avner as a necessary evil anyway, so she doesn't ask after him). Then they got separated. She doesn't know and won't find out until the PCs get to Tanaroa (Lavinia has reason for waiting there instead of Farshore).

My group had similar problems with Avner on Renkrue. They pulled off a clever trick. First they bluffed that the captain of their ship (one of the PCs) would punish Avner in front of the Olman. And then they used a clever illusion to make it seem that they punished Avner. They pulled it off. It was a great scene.

Part of me can't help feeling sorry for poor Avner and his ongoing unhappiness, glad you're still having fun with the poor fellow out there:)

Rich

To be fair, the way he's written he does seem to deserve it. :P

Yes, it is incredible that every pc group instantly dislikes him. Probably even more than Vanthus.

You know, that is an interesting observation....what if Avner turns out to the evil monster they equate him to be?...What if "Avner" had a hand in making Vanthus become the villian that he is today? What if "Avner" was just really a mortal guise? Ooooo, I think I am going to enjoy that train of thought very much.

CB Out.

Well blast. It seems I have been discovered. Clever, northerner, quite clever indeed. Yesssss.

I hadn't actually thought of that! Stealing that if you don't mind. :D

You know, that is an interesting observation....what if Avner turns out to the evil monster they equate him to be?...What if "Avner" had a hand in making Vanthus become the villian that he is today? What if "Avner" was just really a mortal guise? Ooooo, I think I am going to enjoy that train of thought very much.

I think what I'm going to do is:

You could always use it in HTBM. And do not forget that "chaos" is an important theme of the campaign :-)

Too true! I'm thinking I'll have it interfere whenever it seems things are just going too darn easy for the party and have it play patient whenever they're taking it rough already. A little DM-fiat maybe but no one ever expects demons to play fair, and I'm confident it doesn't want to kill them off too quickly. Stretch out the torment a bit and all. :D

I finally figured out what I am doing with Avner. >:)

What do you think? :)

CB Out.

*thumbs up!*

My party did the usual with Avner...gripe about him, ostracize him, suspect him. They let his horse on the ship, but he was relegated to the Blue Nixie. Half-way through the ocean voyage, a trickster rogue in the party spread crushed poison ivy leaves all through his bed. Too bad I randomly rolled (honestly) that he had a deadly allergy to poison ivy...nearly killed him.
They nearly left him behind on the Sargasso, that's how much they loathed him, and one guy nearly killed him during the trek across the Isle of Dread. But when they got to the little shrine (that caused the dense fog over the island), Avner had one chance to prove his worth, or they would have disposed of him for good. He hung on to see another day.

Finally, in Farshore, just as the ensuing war was coming, Avner used that scenario of heightened fear and dread to demonstrate how Lavinia was not a "fit" leader, and so he got on his bully pulpit and campaigned to become Lord Mayor. Funny thing is, the PCs were so tired of him by then, they didn't do a thing to help Lavinia win.

So now Avner is Lord Mayor, and plans to turn the whole Isle of Dread into a vacation paradise / trading mecca. He'll be filthy rich, that's for sure. Some in the party still want to bump him off, but there's a couple of good guys who won't stand for that. So, looks like I'll have a recurring selfish prig to harrangue them with.

Nice!

My players have only just started Tides of Dread and they're complaining a bit about the lack of magical gear (they have not gone to the volcano yet) and treasure per se. I'm considering adding Rana Mor (Dungeon 86) as a side-trek adventure in the Isle of Dread for them. The theme certainly fits. Just requires a bit of change here and there. I am not going to bother increasing the difficulty (except for the traps) since they do need a short adventure where they are not getting their butts handed to them every time they encounter something in the Savage Tide, ;)

CB Out.

My group just got to TBWG which I started with the banquet from the end of TINH. Faelyn, the Feytouched Healer|Spirit Shaman, decided she wanted to spend most of the banquet dancing with the young noblemen, so after a while I had her approached by Avner. He played very suave and flattered her and such throughout the whole ball, while her "partner" - Tibbit Warlock|Rogue who tends to stay in cat form - watched grudgingly from the edge of the dance floor. He could guess all Avner was interested in was getting her into bed, a suspicion semi-confirmed by Lavinia later when Faelyn asked her who Avner was, but being Fey she really didn't see much of a problem with it... in fact I believe her exact words were "So what? Pleasure is pleasure as long as no one gets hurt". She also had no qualms about using her at-will charm person racial SLA on attractive gentlemen during the dance.

I'm curious how this is going to play out when TSWW comes around. Given the looseness of Fey morality and opinions regarding the sort of thing Avner's interested in, I may have the first party to actually -like- having him around.

Maybe he'll get smitten and try to monopolize her attentions in the voyage. And since she's a frisky fey and not into monogamy baby... he will be angry.

He will be insulted.

He may have to slap her.

You know, for honour's sake. A halfbreed harlot, corrupting a pureblood noble? We can't have that!

That would be very amusing. She might even hit back. And she's wearing Lightning Gauntlets. (What? She's a healer, she can fix him. :P)

My party hasn't even finished the fight with Vark on the Nixie in TINH, but I've already got several pranks for Churtle to play on poor Avner... Like putting a napkin around her neck and drooling on him with fork and knife in hand in the night... I also plan to have an incident with a thieving "Skald"

Yeah, this is going to be fun...