Barbarian Class Preview

Monday, June 11, 2018

Rage consumes you in battle. You delight in carving through your enemies using powerful weapons and wreaking havoc without needing complicated techniques or rigid training, and you rely on your astonishing durability to get you through a fight. You associate your rage with a traditional symbol of affinity known as a totem, which might take the form of an animal, a spirit, or even a part of yourself. To many barbarians, brute force is a hammer and every problem looks like a nail; to others, the dark emotions within them are something to hold back and release only when it matters most.

When it came to barbarians in the playtest, we wanted to take the most popular parts of the original barbarian and the unchained barbarian and brew them together with a few special ingredients to make the class even more flexible to fit even more roleplaying and mechanical concepts. Let's take a look!

Rage

Rage is a barbarian's key class feature. Barbarians aren't super-trained in fancy weapon techniques like most of the other martial classes. Instead, a barbarian can enter a rage that drastically increases her damage and grants her a significant booster shot of temporary Hit Points, in exchange for a –1 penalty to AC and the inability to use concentrate actions unless they specifically have the rage trait (note, this means that somatic-only spells are now possible in a rage!). Unlike in Pathfinder First Edition, rage in the playtest is not limited in rounds per day—let's be honest, in Pathfinder First Edition, our barbarians never ran out of rounds anyway once they had gained a few levels. A rage lasts 3 rounds, followed by a round of fatigue. While you're fatigued, you can't rage again, but once that round has passed, you can enter a new rage, with a shiny brand-new set of temporary Hit Points to go along with it. You can do this as often as you need during the day!

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

Totems

Without a doubt, the most popular element of barbarians in Pathfinder First Edition is the totem, introduced in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Advanced Player Guide. These totems are a set of three thematically linked abilities the barbarian can choose, starting at 2nd level. In the playtest, you get a totem right away at 1st level. Your totem is a representation of how and why you rage and grants you an initial ability, access to more totem feats down the line, and, at 9th level, resistance equal to your Constitution modifier against a specific type of damage. Each totem also has its own anathema, most of which are relatively low impact and designed to create roleplaying hooks. For instance, the giant totem's anathema states that you cannot fail to accept a personal challenge of your strength, much like how Amiri accepted the challenging task her tribal fellows set her to slay a frost giant. Some though, are stricter—the superstition totem requires that you never willingly accept the benefits of spells, but grants you some truly astounding antimagic abilities in exchange.

Some of the totems, like animal totem, giant totem, and dragon totem, offer a few abilities that are flat-out magical. For instance, animal totem barbarians can adopt animal features and attacks and even transform into an animal (a great way to represent lycanthrope characters), whereas dragon totem barbarians gain a dragon breath attack can even grow wings. Even though totems are popular and roleplaying opportunities are fun, we recognize not everyone necessarily wants to commit to them, so we also offer the fury totem, which has no anathema or special requirements and focuses more on barbarian feats that aren't tied to any totem, which we'll look at in a bit. But first...

Additional Barbarian Features

Though I called out rage and totems specifically, the barbarian has some really neat abilities beyond those. For instance, at level 3, barbarians gain critical specialization effects when in a rage, even if they don't fulfill the usual proficiency rank requirement for the weapon—they use whatever weapon is most efficient to express their rage! One other thing they have that nobody else does: 12 Hit Points per level. Add that to the substantial temporary Hit Points that they can generate (possibly multiple times in a long fight) and the resistances from their totem that kick in at level 9, and barbarians have incredible staying power. Sure, they don't prevent as many hits as a paladin or a shield fighter might, but they can stand there taking hits long past the point where anyone else could stay standing. This is also a good point to mention one feature barbarians don't have in the playtest: alignment requirements. Barbarians can be whatever alignment they want; for instance, a lawful barbarian might act like one of the concepts I described earlier, controlling and holding back her emotions to channel and release her rage when it matters most.

As many of you have predicted, barbarians also have the best Fortitude proficiency, gaining the juggernaut class feature at level 7 (which grants master proficiency in Fortitude and the ability to count any successes you roll as critical successes instead) and improved juggernaut at 13th (which grants legendary proficiency and removes the chance of critically failing), but they also have a secondary Will focus, gaining indomitable will at 15th level to become masters in Will. Tireless rage comes in at level 17 to allow barbarians to ignore fatigue after ending a rage (though they still must wait the normal amount of time before entering a new rage). Barbarians are all about brutalizing opponents without worrying about carrying lots of different weapons and selecting the right one for the job with their monster knowledge, so it makes sense that they gain the ability to rip through a chunk of resistances automatically with level 19's devastating strikes ability. Possibly my favorite barbarian feature, though, is the level 11 ability mighty rage—whenever you enter a rage, it allows you to immediately use one of your rage-only actions for free. So many possibilities!

Barbarian Feats

In addition to the feats based on totems, there are a variety of other feats available, from the bread-and-butter, low-level Sudden Charge to the devastating Whirlwind Strike (attack everything in your reach), Brutal Critical (your critical hits deal an extra die of damage as well as persistent bleed damage), Vicious Evisceration (you maim the enemy, dealing extra damage, reducing its maximum HP by an amount equal to its level, and giving it a –1 penalty to Fortitude), Contagious Rage (one of your allies gets the benefits and –1 penalty to AC imposed by your rage, but can still concentrate), and Quaking Stomp (you stomp so hard that it creates an honest-to-goodness earthquake). But none caused a playtest GM to raise their eyebrows quite like the superstition totem's Spell Sunder, which really saved us when we faced walls of force, magical trap effects, and more.

To close off, some of you might have expected me to talk about the dragon totem barbarian Linda is playing in my playtest game, who has sometimes been the party's primary healer. She does that through abilities beyond the barbarian class, though certainly Moment of Clarity (which allows a barbarian to use an extra action to use a concentrate ability mid-rage). But if you're wondering why there was a time in my playtest when she was the only one with an area attack, that was because of her barbarian's dragon breath!

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Tags: Amiri Barbarians Pathfinder Playtest Wayne Reynolds
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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion Subscriber

Was hoping for sorcerer or bard but interesting none the less.


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graystone wrote:
Take a 1d4 and put it on 1 when you rage and advance the number as you keep raging: when you flip it to 4 you're fatigued. Seems super simple to track.

Line up 4 shot glasses with spirit of choice...


Alchemaic wrote:
Huh, so Whirlwind Strike is Barbarian-only now?

Nope. From the Fighter blog:

he goal here is to give you a variety of tools to deal with the situations and encounters you are bound to face. You might walk into a fight with your bow and open with Double Shot, allowing you to fire a pair of arrows into the two nearest foes, only to swap over to using a greataxe when the rest surround you, making an attack against all enemies in your reach with Whirlwind Strike! It all comes down to the type of fighter you want to play.


An armored paladin, a shielded fighter, and a toughed barbarian get into a fight... Sounds like the lead up to a joke. Not sure what the punch line would be though. :p


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An armored paladin, a shielded fighter, and a toughed barbarian get into a fight. The BBEG wins.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Always bugged me that barbarian was the only martial with a d12 hit die (dont they get enough extra hp from rage?) but everything else looks really good. It's true that no barbarian or bard runs out of rage/performance rounds past level 5; by then, other party resources have already run out.


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Here's hoping for an endure elements and cold resistance feature as well as options for Barbarians wanting to dual-wield.

Sovereign Court

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber

This all looks very cool. Looking forward to seeing spirit totem, as that was always my favorite. Also, I'd be pleased as punch if there were an archer-barbarian build in Core. ^_^


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In addition (as some of the developers already know), I'd love to see an unarmored combat option. Ideally class-agnostic, but if it had to be class-specific, barbarian would be the one. ^_^


Mark Seifter wrote:
Huh, that's even better that what I've been doing. Consider it yoinked!

Sure, have fun with it. ;)

Dice are my go to round tracker: if it's not a 'normal' dice length, I pull out the old d30 that doesn't see much use. If it's a duration I use often, I color in the number with a crayon [or multiple numbers if I often use multible abilities/spells with round durations]. I find it easier than juggling multiple things.


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1. I have never been interested in or a fan of Barbarians. Until now.

2. I kind of called the animal Totem feature of Barbarians' that essentially lets them be non-spellcaster-limited-wildshapers. Which is insane, because I never am right on stuff like this.

I wanted Sorcerer or the last Ancestries so bad... But this was good. Real good.


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Big Lemon wrote:
Always bugged me that barbarian was the only martial with a d12 hit die (dont they get enough extra hp from rage?) but everything else looks really good. It's true that no barbarian or bard runs out of rage/performance rounds past level 5; by then, other party resources have already run out.

It is worth keeping in mind that the d12 hit die (really, not a hit die anymore, just 12 HP a level) functions very different from the rage only HP. Set aside the original PF1 barbarian which needed a high base line HP because if she got knocked below 0 she was dead.

The current barbarian's temp HP probably won't be super high, especially if it is refreshing every 4 rounds. Also, the more you shift the focus onto those temp HP, the less healing the Barbarian needs afterwards, which certainly has both flavor and crunch implications. Also, the Barbarian needs to be able to take a hit outside of rage-- at bare minimum when ambushed or losing initiative, but now it is also a thing every 4th round. It won't have the heavy armor of the fighter, nor does it have the Lay on Hands heals of the Paladin. So it needs something in return compared to those classes.


Looks good so far. Rage not having to be tracked obsessively suits how I want to play a barb better. I very much so hope that a variety of fighting styles (2h, twf, w&s, thrown, projectile, reach) are viable and we aren't just strongarmed into greataxe/[any 2h melee weapon] brusiers.


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I hope there's some kind of Fey totem. I've had an idea for an elven wild dancer for awhile now but have never gotten around to playing it.


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Barathos wrote:
I very much so hope that a variety of fighting styles (2h, twf, w&s, thrown, projectile, reach) are viable and we aren't just strongarmed into greataxe/[any 2h melee weapon] brusiers.

This. I also hope there is some kind of improvised weapon build for them. Nothing says barbarian like 'hulk smash' with a random table, log or thrown goblin.

RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32

Do we know how many temp HP? And How much extra damage?


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Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
PossibleCabbage wrote:
So a totem is mandatory? I wonder how abstract these get, in case someone wants to play an especially scholarly and urbane (or snooty) barbarian. Can't wait to read the book!

”HAH! Some Barbarian! Your totem is a BOOK WORM?!?! That is the stupidest...

...AAAAH! GODS, SOMEONE HELP ME! HE’S BORING THROUGH MY CHEST WITH HIS BARE HAND!!! *Uggghghghlll...*


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Arikiel wrote:
I hope there's some kind of Fey totem. I've had an idea for an elven wild dancer for awhile now but have never gotten around to playing it.

OOoh, like a Wild Hunt Totem that gives you a few Ranger things?


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ENHenry wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
So a totem is mandatory? I wonder how abstract these get, in case someone wants to play an especially scholarly and urbane (or snooty) barbarian. Can't wait to read the book!

”HAH! Some Barbarian! Your totem is a BOOK WORM?!?! That is the stupidest...

...AAAAH! GODS, SOMEONE HELP ME! HE’S BORING THROUGH MY CHEST WITH HIS BARE HAND!!! *Uggghghghlll...*

LOL Not his hand... It's a backhand WITH the book! 'Knowledge is power slap!', 'Insight smash!', 'Knowing is half the battle blast!', 'Thousand papercut slash!.


Really happy with everything here except for anathema, but it'll probably be easy to just ignore that in my home games once the playtest is over.


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Sculcuvant wrote:
Arikiel wrote:
I hope there's some kind of Fey totem. I've had an idea for an elven wild dancer for awhile now but have never gotten around to playing it.
OOoh, like a Wild Hunt Totem that gives you a few Ranger things?

An Erlking would be a great Totem and it occurs to me that you could do some very weird stuff by pulling some vestiges from the Tome of Magic to use as totems as well!


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Huh. I wrote up series of notes for a revised barbarian idea I was toying with earlier this year. It seems I actually was leeching someone else's brainwaves. Maybe it's because I'm playing a mesmerist...

I really like how barbarian totems have anathema – I think this is an interesting way of modeling the fact that many people like to play barbarians as having a personal honor code or tribal traditions that they identify strongly with. As with paladins and clerics, I hope to see GMs implement it in games to promote role-play amongst players, rather than as ways to shut down PCs by handing them no-win situations.

I do also hope that a bunch of the totems focus on extraordinary rather than supernatural powers – I feel it is important to give both camps of players the options they want to build the barbarian of their dreams ;)


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Milo v3 wrote:
Really happy with everything here except for anathema, but it'll probably be easy to just ignore that in my home games once the playtest is over.

Just think of the barbarian's anathema as tribal / spiritual taboos. Or for a less superstitious / more disciplined character, as the thing (phobia, blind spot, PTSD trigger, whatever) that breaks their focus and demoralizes them so they can't tap their rage.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

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Twitter is my rage totem.

ahem. Anyway, I'm in to this.

I need the book now.

Please give me the book.

bookbookbookbookbookbookbook


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ENHenry wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
So a totem is mandatory? I wonder how abstract these get, in case someone wants to play an especially scholarly and urbane (or snooty) barbarian. Can't wait to read the book!

”HAH! Some Barbarian! Your totem is a BOOK WORM?!?! That is the stupidest...

...AAAAH! GODS, SOMEONE HELP ME! HE’S BORING THROUGH MY CHEST WITH HIS BARE HAND!!! *Uggghghghlll...*

A Barbarian I've always kind of want to played would be based on Ludwig Wittgenstein from the (potentially apocryphal) argument with Karl Popper on "whether or not there are philosophical problems" which resulted in Wittgenstein threatening Popper with a fireplace poker.

So whatever totem goes with that, I'm down for.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
graystone wrote:
ENHenry wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
So a totem is mandatory? I wonder how abstract these get, in case someone wants to play an especially scholarly and urbane (or snooty) barbarian. Can't wait to read the book!

”HAH! Some Barbarian! Your totem is a BOOK WORM?!?! That is the stupidest...

...AAAAH! GODS, SOMEONE HELP ME! HE’S BORING THROUGH MY CHEST WITH HIS BARE HAND!!! *Uggghghghlll...*

LOL Not his hand... It's a backhand WITH the book! 'Knowledge is power slap!', 'Insight smash!', 'Knowing is half the battle blast!', 'Thousand papercut slash!.

...AAAGH!! ‘YO, JOE!’ ?? WHO IS JOE?!? *smack!*


Fuzzypaws wrote:
Just think of the barbarian's anathema as tribal / spiritual taboos. Or for a less superstitious / more disciplined character, as the thing (phobia, blind spot, PTSD trigger, whatever) that breaks their focus and demoralizes them so they can't tap their rage.

Issue is I see no reason why my LN barbarian who is part of a knighthood that masters giant weapons have to have a Strength Complex. You have to shoe horn that into every single one of them, because those mechanics are tied to a super specific flavour restriction, even if it makes no sense.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
KingOfAnything wrote:
Xenocrat wrote:
The really important question not answered is whether entering rage requires an action.
It was a free action in PF1, what makes you think that would change?

because raisinv a shield now costs an action. If something thay instinctive anx basic costs an action pretty much anything could.


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Milo v3 wrote:
Fuzzypaws wrote:
Just think of the barbarian's anathema as tribal / spiritual taboos. Or for a less superstitious / more disciplined character, as the thing (phobia, blind spot, PTSD trigger, whatever) that breaks their focus and demoralizes them so they can't tap their rage.
Issue is I see no reason why my LN barbarian who is part of a knighthood that masters giant weapons have to have a Strength Complex. You have to shoe horn that into every single one of them, because those mechanics are tied to a super specific flavour restriction, even if it makes no sense.

It doesn't have to be a complex, that is just a roleplaying option. It could be an oath and a self imposed prohibition.

"I couldn't accept that challenge, I'm not ready to face such a foe. Instead I'll train harder and fight without my gift to improve my might!" which could wind up being a justification for penance. Not atoning because it is a sin, but going through the mechanical steps of atonement as a training regimen so that when she has her power back she can have a flashback montage and take up the fight at full force again!


Stone Dog wrote:
It doesn't have to be a complex, that is just a roleplaying option.

Restriction, not option. It doesn't seem like you can't get Totems outside of Fury without an anathema.

Quote:

It could be an oath and a self imposed prohibition.

"I couldn't accept that challenge, I'm not ready to face such a foe. Instead I'll train harder and fight without my gift to improve my might!" which could wind up being a justification for penance. Not atoning because it is a sin, but going through the mechanical steps of atonement as a training regimen so that when she has her power back she can have a flashback montage and take up the fight at full force again!

This is what I mean about shoehorning it into Every Single Warrior in the knighthood.... Every single person in the knighthood is forced to have something like this, even if it doesn't make sense for the group. I can see some members of the group having personalities where they would follow such a restriction, but I don't see any reason why they All Must have it.

Liberty's Edge

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Companion, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

If they can't have that anathema, they can't have that totem. Seems easy enough to me. Maybe they're all fighter/barbarians and get the oversized weapons through fighter feats instead.


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Creating an order like this has two options.

One, every single member of this knighthood is a barbarian with the giant totem. If yes... it should make sense for the group because it is a thing for them. There is a conscious choice to have the group be giant totem barbarians and if it doesn't make sense, then why make that choice?

Or, if it is just a lot of martial types who take abilities based around giant weapons, then only the barbarians who have the giant totem will have that particular behavior and those particular knights will have reputations for being particularly competitive*. The others who are fighters or rangers or maybe even a paladin who happens to take giant weapon related feats won't.

Such an order sounds like a great place to put an archetype with or maybe even (dare I hope) an actually prestigious prestige class!

*That is a lot of particulars.


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This roughly reminds me of the blacksmith code from Discworld.

The price for being able to shoe anything is that you have to shoe anything that is brought to you to be shod.

The price to be able to have giantish strength is to have to demonstrate it to those who challenge your might.

At least, the thought amuses me.


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Shisumo wrote:
If they can't have that anathema, they can't have that totem. Seems easy enough to me.

Except there is no reason for that restriction to be on everyone that is trained to wield massive weapons.... -.-

Thus I shall do the easy fix of "Ignore the rule that is creating this unnecessary conflict between roleplay and mechanics. Especially when doing so wont result in any mechanical issues".

Quote:
Maybe they're all fighter/barbarians and get the oversized weapons through fighter feats instead.

Assuming such fighter feats exist.

Stone Dog wrote:

Creating an order like this has two options.

One, every single member of this knighthood is a barbarian with the giant totem. If yes... it should make sense for the group because it is a thing for them. There is a conscious choice to have the group be giant totem barbarians and if it doesn't make sense, then why make that choice?

Or, if it is just a lot of martial types who take abilities based around giant weapons, then only the barbarians who have the giant totem will have that particular behavior and those particular knights will have reputations for being particularly competitive*. The others who are fighters or rangers or maybe even a paladin who happens to take giant weapon related feats won't.

Such an order sounds like a great place to put an archetype with or maybe even (dare I hope) an actually prestigious prestige class!

*That is a lot of particulars.

One: So you simply cannot have an order of knights who use massive weapons unless they have an unhealthy fixation on proving their strength? Bad option in my opinion.

Two: Assumes that there will be other options for massive weapons.

I propose an easier and more effective third option: "Ignore the rule that is creating this unnecessary conflict between roleplay and mechanics. Especially when doing so wont result in any mechanical issues"


Arikiel wrote:
An armored paladin, a shielded fighter, and a toughed barbarian get into a fight... Sounds like the lead up to a joke. Not sure what the punch line would be though. :p

Ask a Monk. They're the experts in all things punch-y!


With Spells and Skill blogs covered i was expecting to see the convergence of those in a Bard class blog.

Following the other class blogs this is much what I was expecting.

I was surprised by the 3 round rage burst, but I haven't played a PF Barbarian (nor with one) so the juggling of 1/rage powers never occurred to me. when I think of Barbarians it's usually the red-mist everyone's dead version. I'd love to see that in game, amnesia while raging.

It's interesting to see save proficiency increase as a class ability (rather than a feat) and also carry a rider.

I love that Fury is the go to neutral Totem so there is an opt out for those that want a more urban barbarian. I'd love to see a demon totem either by blood, possession, taint/curse or aspiration.


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graystone wrote:
Barathos wrote:
I very much so hope that a variety of fighting styles (2h, twf, w&s, thrown, projectile, reach) are viable and we aren't just strongarmed into greataxe/[any 2h melee weapon] brusiers.
This. I also hope there is some kind of improvised weapon build for them. Nothing says barbarian like 'hulk smash' with a random table, log or thrown goblin.

Oh, and also unarmed! I want to make a Prince Philionel of Seyruun type character! The ultimate pacifict with attacks like Pacifist Crush, Kindness to All Creatures Kick, Benevolent Giant Swing, and Goodwill Towards Man Smash. ;) [or maybe a monk/barbarian multiclass...]

Shadow Lodge

Dammit I had forgotten about that wonderfully funny hypocrite, Philionel!


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Quandary wrote:
graystone wrote:
Take a 1d4 and put it on 1 when you rage and advance the number as you keep raging: when you flip it to 4 you're fatigued. Seems super simple to track.
Line up 4 shot glasses with spirit of choice...

Line up THREE shot glasses with spirit of choice and one empty, quaff one at the start of each turn of Rage. When you get to the forth glass, get sad because its empty. That's how you know this is your Fatigue round.


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Milo v3 wrote:
Except there is no reason for that restriction to be on everyone that is trained to wield massive weapons.... -.-

Except they all are part of an Order that trains them to use those weapons, and Orders have Codes?

How is that hard to wrap one's head around?

Liberty's Edge

John Lynch 106 wrote:
It also brings in tactical choices. I suspects lots of fights will take between 3-5 rounds. If you want to avoid having worse than nothing in round 4, delay raging for 1 or 2 rounds.

This is actually even more complex because you can Rage again after only one round of Fatigue. So at 5-7 rounds you'll often be better raging immediately since then you have Rage all the rounds but one.

If it's 4 rounds, or 8 I suppose, you're unambiguously better off waiting a round. I doubt it's ever optimal to wait more than one round.

Grumpus wrote:
Do we know how many temp HP? And How much extra damage?

We do not.

Personally I'm currently leaning towards Rage being an action to enter, but adding another weapon die to all attacks you make. But that's just a random theory.


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Restrictions. Anathemas. We can't have those, they will be used by power-crazy Mister Caverns do punish and pull us True Gamers down. Why oh why can't we just have Artificial Intelligences controlling the opponents and the environments instead of those oppressive, antagonistic flesh-things who run games only to control, punish and limit under the flimsy pretences of "telling a story" and "making it fun for everyone"?

IT'S NOT FUN FOR EVERYONE IF I CAN'T DO EVERYTHING I WANT!!!!!!


Milo v3 wrote:

One: So you simply cannot have an order of knights who use massive weapons unless they have an unhealthy fixation on proving their strength? Bad option in my opinion.

Two: Assumes that there will be other options for massive weapons.

I propose an easier and more effective third option: "Ignore the rule that is creating this unnecessary conflict between roleplay and mechanics. Especially when doing so wont result in any mechanical issues"

Your response for the first is twisting what I said. I never said you "simply cannot have" anything. I said a single option for a group of specialists was to have a uniform membership. In this case yes, members of this set up are all of the barbarian class that are all initiated with giants as their inspiration. It was not the only option presented.

Second, there are always other options and always have been. Maybe the barbarians have the best ones and maybe they don't. Maybe there will be feats for it or class abilities and maybe there aren't and maybe they won't be good if they exist. Maybe there will be a property rune that is a secret process of these hypothetical knights that lets them swing around large bastard swords like little siblings. Maybe the other option is just to eat up the penalty like Amiri used to since she was an awesome character that never needed the special abilities PF2 is handing her.

Your third option is valid, but taking rule zero isn't very fun to talk about. Ignore what you like at your table, I'm going to try and keep talking about what can go right.


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MusicAddict wrote:
They mentioned a generic rage totem that doesn't come with an anathema. In theory, you could probably create an arcane/divine/primal/occult totem to represent the power of their rage coming from a magical source, rather than a primal urge or supernatural tribal power. Or the rage itself is entirely mundane, empowered by self image, as the rage totem or giant totem might be.

For different power sources... how about a Gamma Totem, has an Enlarge Person effect and a bonus to smashing, I mean bludgeoning, damage while unarmed. Also turns you green and destroys your clothing other than purple shorts.


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Aiken Frost wrote:

Except they all are part of an Order that trains them to use those weapons, and Orders have Codes?

How is that hard to wrap one's head around?

I see no issue with that. I see issue that All orders like that would all need that same aspect of the code.

Stone Dog wrote:
Your response for the first is twisting what I said. I never said you "simply cannot have" anything. I said a single option for a group of specialists was to have a uniform membership. In this case yes, members of this set up are all of the barbarian class that are all initiated with giants as their inspiration. It was not the only option presented.

Except I was specifically talking about "members of this set up are all of the barbarian class that are all initiated to wield massive weapons" (nothing about giants involved in the organization technically).

Quote:
Second, there are always other options and always have been. Maybe the barbarians have the best ones and maybe they don't. Maybe there will be feats for it or class abilities and maybe there aren't and maybe they won't be good if they exist. Maybe there will be a property rune that is a secret process of these hypothetical knights that lets them swing around large bastard swords like little siblings. Maybe the other option is just to eat up the penalty like Amiri used to since she was an awesome character that never needed the special abilities PF2 is handing her.

There haven't always been other options though? Titan Mauler archetype for Barbarian didn't even exist initially, and Titan Fighter came out years afterwards. There is no sign that anything other than barbarian will start with things that let them use giant weapons, especially when only certain types of Barbarians can do it when "using giant weapons warrior" fits the barbarian flavour best.

Nerdrage Ooze wrote:

Restrictions. Anathemas. We can't have those, they will be used by power-crazy Mister Caverns do punish and pull us True Gamers down. Why oh why can't we just have Artificial Intelligences controlling the opponents and the environments instead of those oppressive, antagonistic flesh-things who run games only to control, punish and limit under the flimsy pretences of "telling a story" and "making it fun for everyone"?

IT'S NOT FUN FOR EVERYONE IF I CAN'T DO EVERYTHING I WANT!!!!!!

That is rather uncalled for and rude... *sigh*

I am not angry. I do not have an issue with flavour. I said I was really happy with everything except for anathema and that I can just easily fix my issue with it. I didn't even ask for anathema to be removed from the class or anything? Please don't be rude and strawman-y. Especially when "telling a story" is why I have issue with anathema, and that my method of "making it fun for everyone" (personal houserule) has no negative effect on anyone else's fun.

I said that I really like this preview, and that my only issue is something that can be easily houseruled to fit my groups preference so it's not even an issue. That is no reason to act as if I'm some crazed person trying to remove flavour from everything, that I'm a "rollplayer" who only cares about mechanics, and want to ruin other peoples fun.


Okay, now the Barbarian introduction blog has me interested.

It seems likely that Barbarian with various Animal Totems (and a few others that work in a related way) could subsume most of the Shifter class (except for the Oozemorph archetype, but that's going to have to wait for a splatbook). Likewise, if you added some Vigilante-type options that any class could take, it could subsume the Wildsoul and Brute Vigilante archetypes (and do a much better job).

Glad to see the alignment restriction removed. Well before the announcement of 2nd Edition, I was toying around with the idea of a Hellknight Shock Trooper Barbarian archetype.

Having Rage duration fixed at 3 rounds is a bit concerning, since some fights really do last longer -- would like to see a feat or even slow scaling by level that would let you extend this.


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Xenocrat wrote:
The really important question not answered is whether entering rage requires an action.

Based on what we've seen so far, I'd guess that it probably does. But I'm really hoping it doesn't. The one concern I have with the new action economy is that just about everything is requiring an action now, so it's going to be difficult to activate your abilities and such. I was running into this in PF1 where I was playing an Inquisitor, I had a bunch of things that required swift actions to activate like Judgement and Bane (also magic items). It'd take several rounds to get all my abilities online, and the fight would often be over by then. Alternately I could take an entire round doing nothing but getting stuff active, which is very non-satisfying. That's a concern I have with PF2 and everything requiring an action.


Milo v3 wrote:
Except I was specifically talking about "members of this set up are all of the barbarian class that are all initiated to wield massive weapons" (nothing about giants involved in the organization technically).

Then that can fall under the second option already provided. If they are all barbarians that swing large weapons and they are equal opportunity totemists, then some of them have the giant totem, and some of them have different totems. Some of them are really good at the signature style of the order and some of them bring different skills to the table.

Or yes, rule zero.

Quote:
There haven't always been other options though?

Okay granted, the options in the very early days were to convert previous 3.5 rules or just pick up a large weapon and go to town like Amiri without worrying about it.

Liberty's Edge

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UnArcaneElection wrote:
Having Rage duration fixed at 3 rounds is a bit concerning, since some fights really do last longer -- would like to see a feat or even slow scaling by level that would let you extend this.

Because you are only fatigued for a round after Rage ends the duration is a bit misleading. A 7 round fight will typically see the Barbarian raging for 6 of those rounds...and fatigued only, and very specifically, for round #4 in the middle.


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Barbarian looks fantastic. I'll probably make up a double sided card for any newer players using them with the Rage rules on one side (and gaps to put in their own stats) and the Fatigue rules on the other.

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