Hail the Gauntlet!

Friday, May 25, 2018

Thank you to everyone who donated to Paizo's 2018 team for the Gauntlet charity tournament. Team Paizo fought hard in Tak, but a catastrophic Valeria round tumbled us towards the bottom, and we clawed our way back up to 11th, and almost as high as 8th, with an awesome performance on the final Puzzle Hunt round. Thanks to all of you, including an incredible last-minute donation over $1,000, we also unlocked an astonishing number of blog segments revealing further secrets about previously blogged classes. This will be a monster-length blog, so strap in for a long ride!

Fighter Combos: Randyll and Solveig
Luis Loza

I've always been a big fan of martial characters, which was fully solidified by one of my favorite characters, who happened to be a fighter. One of the big things I love about the fighter in Pathfinder is his ability to do just about anything in combat. With the right set of feats, a fighter can be anything from a typical sword and shield-wielding knight, to a spear master who leaps across the battlefield to defend his allies, to a light-footed master of the rapier. When I got a chance to join one of the playtest games here in the office, my first thought was to put this new fighter to the test. A lot of it felt the same, as the fighter was gaining lots of feats, but it turns out there was much more to the fighter this time around.

The Fighter Class Preview previewed several fighter feats and class features, but one thing it didn't mention was fighters' ability to string together attacks to make powerful combinations. They do this through abilities that let them Fan attack or press the offensive—abilities with the open trait must come before any other attacks, and those with the press trait must come after you've already made an attack. Fighters can also enter stances, which are one of the most common types of open abilities, and grant various powerful benefits for the duration of the encounter or until you enter another stance. A bastard sword switch-hitter can appreciate the debuff potential of following up an Intimidating Strike (which is neither an open nor a press ability) with Shatter Defenses, a press ability that stacks various penalties on an intimidated foe, or Combat Grab, a press ability that uses your open hand to grab a foe and simultaneously attack with the weapon in the other hand. Between those options and your ability to make your opponents flat-footed with critical hits, you can significantly reduce the AC of monsters so your lower-accuracy allies can take them down. With all of these new abilities in mind, I created my first fighter, Randyll. He was a master of the bastard sword with a penchant for yelling and rushing into combat. He would use the versatility of his bastard sword to his advantage, switching between a one-handed grip and a two-handed grip to use whichever feat was best for the situation, granting him a surprising amount of versatility.

Unfortunately, due to his recklessness, Randyll was not long for Golarion. In his place, I created Solveig, an Ulfen shield maiden entirely dedicated to defending her allies. She's fared even better. A shield fighter with a flail is all about careful tactical placement on the battlefield. If you're standing in the right spot, you can block for your allies with Shield Warden, and the flail critical specialization effect of knocking enemies prone can keep enemies right where you want them, even on an open battlefield. With Shielded Stride, you can even Stride at half speed with your shield up, ignoring reactions that trigger off your movement. The Shield Paragon stance is an open ability that gives you the benefit of a raised shield for the rest of the battle, an extremely powerful advantage. Solveig is a complete shift from Randyll's combat style. Her movement is calculated and her defense is unmatched (at least by the rest of the party!). By the time she had avoided close to 10 attacks in a row, I was in love with the fighter. I had found that same feeling that I had in Pathfinder First Edition and I could tell that there were so many possibilities with different weapons, armor types, and of course, all the new fighter feats. But there are so many amazing feats—how can your fighter take all the ones he wants? And how do you make sure you have the one you need for the day's adventure? The fighter's 9th-level Flexibility feat grants a different feat each day, and that increases to two flexible feats with Improved Flexibility at 15th level. This also means that, counting those two flexible feats, fighters have the most class feats in the game! Let me just say that playing the fighter in the playtest has only further solidified my love for the class. The fighter is awesome and continues to be awesome in Pathfinder Second Edition. In fact, if I were told I could play only fighters for the duration of the playtest, I would be happy. There's so much the fighter can do that I don't see myself running out of ideas any time soon!

Cleric Domains of the Mox Gauntlet
Andrew White

Thanks so much to everyone who helped us get this far! Your generosity is hugely appreciated, and we did our best to represent you accordingly at this weekend's showdown. And as a special reward to those of you who made your donations in the name of Team Cleric, here's a sneak peek at more of what's coming for everyone's favorite energy channelling, undead-neutralizing, wound-healing bludgeon enthusiasts!

If the Mox Gauntlet was a deity, what domains would it have? A gauntlet is a symbol of Might, the donations are a form of Wealth, the charity this year helps Families, and each year there's usually a final round shrouded in Secrecy. So let's talk about the domain powers that a cleric of the Gauntlet might be able to cast. The Cleric Class Preview already included unity, but the Family domain also has the basic power soothing words, which dispels emotion effects on a target; this is actually extremely strong because as a power, it's always heightened to your highest possible level. This means it's quite tricky to keep up emotion effects on a Family cleric's allies, and you'll probably never need to prepare remove fear. Might has two options that are really good for heavily armored and high-Strength clerics. The basic power athletic exploit lets you ignore your armor's check penalty and movement speed reduction when you really need to, and enduring might is a reaction that reduces damage based on your Strength modifier and your cleric level. The Secrecy domain has forced quiet, which limits the target's voice to a hoarse whisper, making it much harder to raise an alarm. Even a successful save against forced quiet still affects the target for 1 round (though the effect might last as long as 10 minutes on a critical failure!). Secrecy's advanced domain power, safeguard secret, has a 1-minute casting time but thereafter grants you and all willing allies in range an enormous conditional bonus to skill checks (almost always Deception) to conceal a specific secret you pick, and to saving throws against spells that seek to ferret out that specific secret. These benefits last indefinitely until you use the spell again. Finally, Wealth's basic power, acquisitive's fortune, is sure to make you popular with every business owner in the city and with allies who like to make money during downtime. Once cast, it allows the target to reroll any critical failure on their check to Perform a Trade in the next 24 hours. As the name implies, it's a fortune effect. The domain's advanced power, money talks, allows you to substitute coin currency for any sort of cost with a value measured in monetary value. So for instance, if you needed a vase worth 100 gp, you could just use 100 gp. This is particularly handy when you're away from a settlement and suddenly need a bizarre item for a cost that you wouldn't have thought to bring along; the Wealth cleric has you covered.

The Rogue's Hidden Tricks
Katina Davis

Although I'm not particularly stealthy in real life, I've always enjoyed rogues and their stealthy ways because I figured they were most like how I would actually behave in an adventure setting. Instead of barreling headfirst into a fight and counting on being able to chug a bunch of potions afterward, the rogue is more calm, calculated, and precise. What's the point in drawing attention (and attacks) to yourself when you can tiptoe in, get the job done, and sneak away unscathed? Never let your opponents know how strong you are, and they will always underestimate you.

Even after the Rogue Class Preview, the rogue was hiding some of her sneakiest tricks. What did you expect? One thing about the rogue that's different than in Pathfinder First Edition is the rogue's focus on slippery mental defenses. In addition to the Cognitive Loophole feat mentioned in her preview blog, the rogue gains the slippery mind ability, which makes her a master at Will saves. Add in double debilitation, the ability to apply two debilitations to a foe at once, and you have a good sense of the rogue's odd-level features. But there are so many feats still hiding in the shadows. While the first blog focused on ways to get sneak attack, the rogue also has some fun ways to play with the action economy, including drawing and attacking with a weapon as a single action, or Stepping and Striking at a -1 penalty with the same action (in either order, perfect for flanking, entering reach, or forcing your foe to take an action to reach you). The rogue also has a pair of feats that allow her to poison weapons more easily, keep her poisons from being wasted, and create a bunch of doses of a very simple poison for free each day (this also works great with an alchemist on the team to make some really powerful poison for free every day). For those interested in traps, you can gain Trap Finder, which makes finding even the most devious traps easier and protects you against them, and Delay Trap, which can give you the time you need to escape the area when you accidentally set off a trap. However, unlike in Pathfinder First Edition, engaging with traps as a rogue is your choice.

All right, those feats were cool, but what about some high-level options? Sense the Unseen is a reaction you can use when you Seek that lets you automatically learn the location of unseen creatures in the area, no matter how well they were hidden. You still can't see them, but it's a good start! Cloud Step allows you to step so lightly that you are essentially weightless when you are Striding, allowing you to walk over water or air and avoiding pressure plates until you finish moving. Perfect Distraction allows you to use smoke and mirrors, decoys, and other tactics to make it seem like you are somewhere you aren't, perfect for leaving a decoy right after you hide. If you have Legendary Deception, you can even gain Reactive Distraction and use the decoy as a reaction to avoid an enemy's attack or other ability. Afterward, it takes a bit of time to set up your next decoy, but it's worth it! Trickster's Ace lets you jury-rig magic item resonance and stolen magical energy to set up your own magical contingency each day, similar to the spell. And finally, Hidden Paragon lets you go completely invisible, even beyond the sight of true seeing, see invisibility and the like and impossible to outline with even glitterdust, faerie fire, or similar magic!

Take That, Evil!
Mark Seifter

The Paladin Class Preview was centered around alignment and the paladin code, with some extra helpings of spells, healing, and defenses, but there's more to paladin options than that. Sometimes you just want to put on your Gauntlet and beat evil down. So, this section is all about offense. Retributive Strike, first mentioned in the paladin blog, is a good way to add onto your damage while enfeebling enemies that dare to attack your allies, and all paladins have access to it at 1st level. Another ability all paladins receive is the righteous ally, a holy spirit that assists you from 3rd level on. There are three righteous allies to choose from (and you can take the Second Ally feat to gain another): blade, shield, and mount. Naturally, the blade righteous ally is the most offense-focused of the three, inhabiting your weapon (which you are free to change each day), and giving it the benefits of a property rune for the whole day. This starts with some simple properties like disrupting and ghost touch, but you can use feats to gain the benefits of more powerful runes; for instance, you can make your weapon dancing, allowing the spirit in your blade to attack on its own. The first major blade righteous ally feat is Blade of Justice, which is parallel to the Pathfinder First Edition paladin's smite evil—you declare a target to face judgment and deal extra damage to evil foes. Although Blade of Justice deals less damage than smite evil, it can be used as many times as you like as long as you have the actions for it. And the real kicker is that this extra damage is good damage, which means that creatures like fiends that are weak against good abilities are going to take a lot more damage.

Speaking of how offense-focused paladins can wreck fiends, there's also Aura of Faith, a feat that makes nearby good allies' first attacks each turn deal 1 extra good damage against evil creatures (and of course, this can become quite a bit higher when applying a fiend's weakness!). But there's also a smiting ability every paladin gets that can ruin a fiend's day. Holy Smite deals persistent good damage equal to your Charisma modifier to evil creatures you hit with any Retributive Strike, which can apply extra damage round after round if the creature has a weakness to good. Instrument of Zeal is the last in the series of badass offensive abilities for the blade righteous ally: when you score a critical hit with your weapon, either with a Retributive Strike or against your Blade of Justice target, you gain an additional die of damage and the target is slowed 1 on its next turn, which can put it in a really tight spot! There's another fun way every paladin can increase a party's offense, particularly if the group stands in a tactical formation. Aura of justice is a class feature all paladins get that allows you to take a penalty to any Retributive Strike in order to allow all allies within 10 feet and in reach of the monster to make Retributive Strikes of their own! If you find your group often uses this to create a mega-chain reaction, you can later take the Aura of Vengeance feat to remove that extra penalty when you use aura of justice.

Behold the Gauntlet!

The Gauntlet is a powerful magic item fought over by champions since ages long past. We will now reveal the powers of the Gauntlet in a Pathfinder Playtest-compatible form. Behold, the Gauntlet!

The Gauntlet Item 18

Invested

Magical

Potent

Transmutation

Price 24,000 gp

Method of Use worn, gloves; Bulk L

Activation [[A]][[A]] Operate Activation


This mighty adamantine gauntlet was forged by the legendary artisans of Mox from the Card Kingdom and is inscribed with hidden runes of great power. The Gauntlet boosts your might and enhances your strategy to a razor's edge. You gain a +5 item bonus to Athletics checks and Warfare Lore checks. When you invest the Gauntlet, you either increase your Strength score by 2 or increase it to 18, whichever would give you a higher score.

While wearing the Gauntlet, you gain a +2 conditional bonus to damage rolls on unarmed attacks against minotaurs.

When you activate the Gauntlet, you slam the ground, creating the same effects as an 8th-level earthquake.

While you have invested the Gauntlet, if anyone offers you a challenge for the Gauntlet and the challenge is fair, you must accept that challenge, though you can finish any life-threatening or time-critical task before doing so. Once someone has won the Gauntlet from you in a challenge, you must wait 1 year before you can challenge them again to regain the Gauntlet. If the Gauntlet is stolen, sold, traded, looted from a corpse, or obtained in any way other than being won in a fair challenge, it vanishes instead, perhaps returning to the vaults of Mox.

A Familiar Disguise

Familiars, the traditional fuzzy friends of wizards and witches, are extremely popular in Pathfinder, especially among those who are fans of animals or cute things. While many classes gained access to familiars in later books, including the archetypes I wrote for Familiar Folio (my first-ever author credit for Paizo), plenty of characters have access to familiars from the outset of Pathfinder Second Edition's playtest. Not only can wizards take a feat to gain a familiar even if they also have an arcane bond, but alchemists can also gain an alchemically created familiar, and druids can gain a leshy familiar. But the most surprising and awesome feature might send our fans who love both gnomes and familiars (hmm, who could that be?) into a spiral of gnomes: there is a gnome ancestry feat to gain a familiar regardless of your class.

So enough about who can get familiars—how do they work? As someone who loves building familiars and getting exactly the type of animal that fits my concept, I was sometimes stymied when my ability to choose a familiar was locked behind how many low-power creatures that would be useful mostly only as familiars could be fit into the Pathfinder RPG Bestiary schedule. In the playtest, you won't have to wait for Bestiary 5 to have a flying fox. Familiars have always been magical creatures forever altered by your magic, so why not capitalize on that to allow for more variety and flexibility than ever before?

In the playtest's familiar system, you get to pick from a variety of powers that either allow the familiar to gain special abilities, like flight or speech (yes, you can have a talking cat, or a talking winged cat) or that grant special benefits to you, including extra spells and delivering your touch spells at a distance. You can normally swap those powers each day as part of your daily preparations, which allows you some awesome flexibility for your familiar, though a familiar that would naturally have any of these special abilities (like an owl's flight) always has that ability locked in. So if you need your rabbit to be able to swim for the next day's adventure, you can do that, or you can grant your leshy wings of flower blossoms. For the playtest, we started with around 10 different powers, but I imagine the list will expand over time and we might create feats for familiar-friendly characters to gain more powers than usual or to unlock particularly strong powers.

So we know about powers, but what about a familiar's base statistics? Your familiar uses your full saving throw modifiers and AC, with a set 4 HP per level, so it has better defenses than familiars had before. Familiars are adept at Perception, Acrobatics, and Stealth, counting as trained characters of your level and adding your spellcasting key ability modifier (this is Charisma if you have only innate spells, like the aforementioned gnome non-spellcaster). For other skills, they have the modifier of an untrained character of your level, meaning that after a few levels, their skills are far beyond what a simple animal could achieve.

Whew, that was an epic-length blog. Thanks again to everyone who donated to the Gauntlet to support Wellspring in their efforts to assist the homeless, and if you liked how much content was in this blog, be sure to post and thank all the donors as well!

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Charity Community The Gauntlet Pathfinder Playtest
51 to 100 of 238 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
CrystalSeas wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
Though one thing does worry me: it seems hinted at that the only reason why we got the blog entries today is because of donations? So we're paying for information? (Hopefully for charity. But even so...)

Well, no.

Other people made donations to charity.

You, however get FREE information that you didn't have to pay anything for.

So little kids get shoes and food and real beds instead of a mattress on the floor, and you get information.

All because generous people made donations on your behalf and unlocked more information. You WIN!!

Haha, that occurred to me too.


8 people marked this as a favorite.
LuniasM wrote:
Leedwashere wrote:
But man, now that they're optional and (like seems to be a glorious refrain in PF2) customizable I could totally see myself picking up a little talking owl like Archimedes.
Get a dog instead. Name them Barkimedes.

The name works for leshies, too.


Tangent101 wrote:
These Gauntlets add +2 Strength so it's not a huge difference

What's nifty is you can turn your 8 str into an 18! So my halfling that's never put a bonus in str gets a +5 to rolls. ;)


2 people marked this as a favorite.
graystone wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
These Gauntlets add +2 Strength so it's not a huge difference
What's nifty is you can turn your 8 str into an 18! So my halfling that's never put a bonus in str gets a +5 to rolls. ;)

"Quick, everybody challenge him to a coin toss!"


3 people marked this as a favorite.
QuidEst wrote:
graystone wrote:
Tangent101 wrote:
These Gauntlets add +2 Strength so it's not a huge difference
What's nifty is you can turn your 8 str into an 18! So my halfling that's never put a bonus in str gets a +5 to rolls. ;)
"Quick, everybody challenge him to a coin toss!"

Eh? No comprende. I can only understand Druidic! And my earplugs are in... *waves away* No solicitors. ;)

Silver Crusade

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Awesome information about all the classes.

What interests me is how the Mox Gauntlet works, wildly extrapolating from that tidbit: I would guess this is how belts (or gauntlets) of giant strength work. Which is similar to how 5e does it, except that if you have a strength of 20 in 5e, you gain no benefit at all, while in PF2e you’ll still get some enhancement from such a thing.

I’ll be honest though items that “set” your ability scores are not a fave of mine though, it mostly encourages dumping stats. Unless such items are prohibitively expensive or artifact level rare, I prefer PF1E’s method of exclusively boosting ability scores when using magic or shapeshifting.

But again this is wild extrapolation.

I like that familiars are going to be malleable, able to shift form as needed for the adventuring day. I hope they see more prominent use in 2e, as opposed to mostly staying in their master’s backpack for fear they’d be murdered.


DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
I’ll be honest though items that “set” your ability scores are not a fave of mine though, it mostly encourages dumping stats. Unless such items are prohibitively expensive or artifact level rare, I prefer PF1E’s method of exclusively boosting ability scores when using magic or shapeshifting.

I agree- this is the equivalent of 240k in PF1, though, presumably something you get in the ballpark of 18th level, and it sets your strength to the most you could get as a first-level character. Unless the earthquake ability is making up a lot of that, then I think it's restricted enough for me.


I am not sure how much I like Paladin’s nearest smite equivalent being locked into a single pact, but aura of justice seems smite-y enough. I am really excited to get a crack at a fighter and I am really happy that my alchemists can get a familiar out of the box.

I am hype!


I love most of what I seen in this blog. I'll be concentrating on what I dislike, but only because there are so many good things about it and it would balloon out this post to cover both.

Fighter: I love everything except 2 things: abilities lasting until the end of the encounter is bad. It implies these abilities can't be used outside of combat. I would rather they have a specific duration and Paizo just accept that fighters can buff precombat.

 I also don't like that fighters can prepare feats. That's what casters do. It sounds superficially similar to the brawler ability but the brawler isn't a core class. I'd be ok with a preparation mechanic for feats as an archetype. But not a core ability.

I get why they're doing it. To try to bring parity across casters and fighters. But I'd rather they treat fighters like spontaneous casters and use the stance mechanic as they're mutually exclusive, so you can know lots of stances without significantly increasing your fire power.

Paladin: Not sure why they renamed divine bond. Seems a very strange choice given the mechanic is identical. Also don't know why they renamed smite evil. If it works against non evil enemies why not call it smite for? These renames seem completely unnecessary and over the top.

Gaunlet: I don't like how they're formatting these magic items. I really, really dont.

Final note: Everything else is awesome. Besides what I've mentioned I *love* the mechanics being previewed and literally everything else. This was a great blog post. The above are just some significant issues my group will have with the new edition.


5 people marked this as a favorite.

I donated for the cleric info, but having read the blog...

Winged talking cats!!
Where do I sign up for one?

(One thing I really hope for from a PFS standpoint is that the familiars are in the format 'songbird', 'rodent', 'small reptile' et al, because the strict 'no re-fluffing' rules hurt flavour in PF1.)


7 people marked this as a favorite.

Those Rogue abilities sound more like NINJA ABILITIES TO ME! Run on water, negate attack with replacement, hax magical invisibiity, meditation? We got ninjas early!


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
John Lynch 106 wrote:

Fighter: I love everything except 2 things: abilities lasting until the end of the encounter is bad. It implies these abilities can't be used outside of combat. I would rather they have a specific duration and Paizo just accept that fighters can buff precombat.

That will mostly come down to the actual text for stances. I imagine the idea is that you probably aren't going to be maintaining a stance in Exploration mode, but I think if, say, you are preparing to kick down the door or ambush an enemy, a reasonable interpretation would be that encounter mode has basically started. The other side just doesn't know it.

Seems like the kind of thing that can get patched pretty easy in the playtest, if nothing else.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

It looks like Rogue gets ninja abilities and Fighter can get brawler abilities and possibly swashbuckler as well.

Silver Crusade

3 people marked this as a favorite.
The Gauntlet wrote:
While wearing the Gauntlet, you gain a +2 conditional bonus to damage rolls on unarmed attacks against minotaurs.

Run Jason, RUN XD


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Fighter sounds very good, but there's still no sign of it being able to do anything except fight, which was always the main problem with it in PF1.

Rogue is v good too. Paladins & familiars sound OK. Cleric and Gauntlet sections are meh.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Some very interesting mechanics going on here. Good to see there is an option to keep that shield up. In fact the fighter seems like it has a great deal of depth.

It is good to see some down time spells making an appearance.

Some of the high level Rogue abilities look great.

The Paladin seems to get a lot of good kit. The rework of Retributive Strike and Aura of Justice seems like a good reduction in ridiculous damage.

I am glad there are alignment based vulnerabilities.

Ooooh, ancestry gnome familiar feat. That is good. I mean, I hate gnomes, but this still a great option.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Mudfoot wrote:

Fighter sounds very good, but there's still no sign of it being able to do anything except fight, which was always the main problem with it in PF1.

Well, all classes get skill feats every other level, so the Fighter will have some talent. And being fair, most of the Rogue feats mentioned are exclusive to combat too, until you get to the high level stuff. So is the Paladin, for that matter.

The fighter may or may not get any UNIQUE non-combat options, but we know all classes are becoming more well rounded.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I am really loving stances and combos for fighters. One of my biggest gripes with front-line martials in the past is that they generally pretty binary in combat. This can change things a lot. The fact that they can swap feats around every day is a great addition as well

And I am loving this new info on the rogue. I'll admit that I was a tad bit hesitant when I read the first blog and compared it to the cleric's first blog, but now I am very excited to play rogue when 2e comes out.


ChibiNyan wrote:
Those Rogue abilities sound more like NINJA ABILITIES TO ME! Run on water, negate attack with replacement, hax magical invisibiity, meditation? We got ninjas early!

Not exactly, unless your playing at high levels the rogue wouldn't be able to cover what the ninja class does at low-level.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Erik Mona wrote:

There will be a TON of info coming out of the panels this weekend, and entire pages of final text revealed at the preview banquet tomorrow night.

Should make for a lively weekend on the forums. ;)

It should.

Be afraid.

I am.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I actually really like that the fighter has stances and eventually has flexible feats. I like that you can customize your combat kit in different ways over two time horizons: both in the middle of a fight and on a daily basis. It is neat.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
Milo v3 wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:
Those Rogue abilities sound more like NINJA ABILITIES TO ME! Run on water, negate attack with replacement, hax magical invisibiity, meditation? We got ninjas early!
Not exactly, unless your playing at high levels the rogue wouldn't be able to cover what the ninja class does at low-level.

Well, not necessarily. These abilities SOUND at will, where the ninja had to spend ki points. (Not sure if that's the case, but I think it is.) Also, Hidden Paragon sounds like the 20th level ninja capstone, and generally these abilities seem at least on pat with master ninja tricks that don't open up until 10th.

Grand Lodge

5 people marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
But the most surprising and awesome feature might send our fans who love both gnomes and familiars (hmm, who could that be?) into a spiral of gnomes: there is a gnome ancestry feat to gain a familiar regardless of your class.

Squeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! Gnomes and familiars, yay!!!!

Hmm
(Now bouncing back into PaizoCon — more on this later!)

Grand Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

After reading through the section on combos and stances, I'm thinking that I'll need some type of play aid to keep track of what I'm doing. The simplest play aid I can think of would be cards with the different combos listed on them. For play test I'd use playing cards with PostIt notes of each combo type and stance. This isn't a whole lot different than spell cards for 5th edition D&D.


Captain Morgan wrote:
Seems like [fighter stances having a duration of "end of comabt"] are the kind of thing that can get patched pretty easy in the playtest, if nothing else.

Definitely. It will cause a knee jerk reaction from my players if left with that precise wording. Which is why I commented on it given the fix would be so easy. But given the strong reaction it's going to elicit I felt it worthwhile commenting on.

Malthraz wrote:
Ooooh, ancestry gnome familiar feat. That is good. I mean, I hate gnomes, but this still a great option.

I hate how gnomes are roleplayed 99.999% of the time and I hate familiars but I still think it's a great feat. It plays up the gnome flavour perfectly.


2 people marked this as a favorite.

I'm going to miss familiars getting half the HP of their master's HP. My Kinetic Knights Wisp familiar had the second most HP in the party.


I've always been high on the 'three-action' combat system, but now combined with the open and press mechanics, I'm really excited to see how combat plays out.

One thing I hope, though, is that there will be a wide variety of options, but not so wide that players won't be able to, y'know, recognize them. I think combat is more fun when you can see your opponent's tactics and adjust your tactics as counterplay. If you're both just doing awesome stuff but you can never anticipate what your opponent will do next, there's not as much tactical decision making.

I'll wait and see. I'm optimistic, though.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
Quote:
With all of these new abilities in mind, I created my first fighter, Randyll. He was a master of the bastard sword with a penchant for yelling and rushing into combat. He would use the versatility of his bastard sword to his advantage, switching between a one-handed grip and a two-handed grip to use whichever feat was best for the situation, granting him a surprising amount of versatility.

Hey, that actually sounds --

Quote:
Unfortunately, due to his recklessness, Randyll was not long for Golarion.

:|


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
John Lynch 106 wrote:
Captain Morgan wrote:
Seems like [fighter stances having a duration of "end of comabt"] are the kind of thing that can get patched pretty easy in the playtest, if nothing else.

Definitely. It will cause a knee jerk reaction from my players if left with that precise wording. Which is why I commented on it given the fix would be so easy. But given the strong reaction it's going to elicit I felt it worthwhile commenting on.

Malthraz wrote:
Ooooh, ancestry gnome familiar feat. That is good. I mean, I hate gnomes, but this still a great option.
I hate how gnomes are roleplayed 99.999% of the time and I hate familiars but I still think it's a great feat. It plays up the gnome flavour perfectly.

I think if you want Stances to exist outside of combat they need to have some downsides to them. Yes it is ridiculous you can't assume a Stance unless you are actively fighting, but it is more ridiculous having someone constantly in Crane Stance as they hop around the world just in case a fight happens and they want to save on Action Economy.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I like pretty much everthing written here!

I am however a bit worried about most of the domain powers. While all of them are very flavorful, many seem highly situational and I can't see myself using most of them on a daily basis, much less multiple times per day. Weren't they supposed to make up for the smaller number of spells per day?

It's just normal that some domains will be stronger and more useful than others but a few of them seem like they have a very small impact - like acquisitive's fortune - or are just not something you'd use on even a semi-regular basis - like safeguard secret.

The latter does seem very nice for NPCs, though. Hidden cults and such.


Malk_Content wrote:
I think if you want Stances to exist outside of combat they need to have some downsides to them. Yes it is ridiculous you can't assume a Stance unless you are actively fighting, but it is more ridiculous having someone constantly in Crane Stance as they hop around the world just in case a fight happens and they want to save on Action Economy.

We already had that problem in PF1e. I'm all for Paizo finding a good solution. Resorting to D&D 4th ed mechanics is not a good solution and is going to turn off a certain segment of the Pathfinder fanbase (I've not mentioned 4th ed issues for a while now, other people have picked up that torch and continued carrying it. It is a problem and not something I'm just tilting at windmills over).

Also is losing 1 action per combat really worth upsetting anti-4e players over? How long is a combat? You can answer that as easily as you can answer how long a piece of string is. I.e. it's not a measurable duration and we might as well just get some other way of balancing the stance or just accept sometimes players will be able to adopt the stance out of combat.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Blave wrote:

I am however a bit worried about most of the domain powers. While all of them are very flavorful, many seem highly situational and I can't see myself using most of them on a daily basis, much less multiple times per day. Weren't they supposed to make up for the smaller number of spells per day?

It's just normal that some domains will be stronger and more useful than others but a few of them seem like they have a very small impact - like acquisitive's fortune - or are just not something you'd use on even a semi-regular basis - like safeguard secret.

There is definitely a HUGE difference in usefulness between Acquisitive's Fortune and Fire Bolt. I am somewhat disappointed that domains don't come with two abilities or passive benefits or one of each from go. They could and should have it so a strong ability or benefit can be paired with a weaker but more flavorful ability, and a mid tier ability can be paired with another mid tier ability or benefit.

John Lynch 106 wrote:


Also is losing 1 action per combat really worth upsetting anti-4e players over? How long is a combat? You can answer that as easily as you can answer how long a piece of string is. I.e. it's not a measurable duration and we might as well just get some other way of balancing the stance or just accept sometimes players will be able to adopt the stance out of combat.

A stance is the sort of thing that should require focus and poise. The kind of focus and poise that is both mentally and physically fatiguing. The kind of fatigue that could be represented by a martial Stamina mechanic to answer the caster spell point Mana mechanic, ticking off rounds or points as a stance is held, regardless of whether used in or out of combat...


So, fighters seem really cool, tank options for fighters sound amazing, and every gnome can have a familiar? Including fighters and bards? and leshy familiars are in the core for druids?
Hey Paizo!!


The fighter looks juicy, I like the action/attack combos, and stances (they are dynamite in 3rd Ed's ToB/Bo9S). I dig them bringing in more unarmed/grappling action.

The rogue is looking good, really playing up the Slippery Mind/won't fool me, Jack aspect. I also thought, ninja, with the water-walking and smoke bombs, disappearing, etc.

Paladin looks to be a power house, that punishes everything, especially if you mess with her/his homies.

Very excited about familiars, no edition seems to have quite nailed them, so far. While it's cool, I agree about not limiting them to gnomes thing (if not a wizard, etc).

The magic item is underwhelming, but I am not the biggest magic item buff, so it's no big deal.


@Fuzzypaws: That would be a solution. But at that point what's different between a stance and a domain power? We've got martials with spells that we pretend aren't spells. That would be even worse.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

How about a feat that allows you to activate a stance as part of another action like a Stride, drawing a weapon or even as part of the Initiative Check?


Blave wrote:
How about a feat that allows you to activate a stance as part of another action like a Stride, drawing a weapon or even as part of the Initiative Check?

Yeah, Iaijutsu/duelist type thing.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
John Lynch 106 wrote:
@Fuzzypaws: That would be a solution. But at that point what's different between a stance and a domain power? We've got martials with spells that we pretend aren't spells. That would be even worse.

Perhaps Stamina can be a smaller but quickly regenerating resource? As such a dedicated martial can hold a physically demanding stance for a period of time less arbitrary than "encounter length" can do this many encounters a day but can't walk around constantly tensed and ready to go.


5 people marked this as a favorite.
Malk_Content wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
@Fuzzypaws: That would be a solution. But at that point what's different between a stance and a domain power? We've got martials with spells that we pretend aren't spells. That would be even worse.
Perhaps Stamina can be a smaller but quickly regenerating resource? As such a dedicated martial can hold a physically demanding stance for a period of time less arbitrary than "encounter length" can do this many encounters a day but can't walk around constantly tensed and ready to go.

At that point it seems like you’re introducing an entire new subsystem into the game with its own ruleset to keep track of that offers no mechanical benefit other than avoiding a particular phrasing that you don’t care for.

I’m concerned enough as it is that “Open” and “Press” traits making combos and the versatile “pick at the start of each day” are going to make fighters too complex for new players as it is.

Scarab Sages

11 people marked this as a favorite.

I like the for-the-rest-of-the-encounter mechanic; much less hassle than figuring out how many rounds passed between combats. It also makes sense to me that a stance must be oriented towards a certain enemy or tactical situation and can‘t be pre-loaded. Nothing wrong with sacrificing an action in the first round if the benefits last that long.

As for 4e allergics: Grow up...


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Catharsis wrote:
As for 4e allergics: Grow up...

The good news, for those that feel that way, is stances started in 3rd Ed (ToB). 4th Ed brought them back with the latter day Essentials line.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
ElSilverWind wrote:
Malk_Content wrote:
John Lynch 106 wrote:
@Fuzzypaws: That would be a solution. But at that point what's different between a stance and a domain power? We've got martials with spells that we pretend aren't spells. That would be even worse.
Perhaps Stamina can be a smaller but quickly regenerating resource? As such a dedicated martial can hold a physically demanding stance for a period of time less arbitrary than "encounter length" can do this many encounters a day but can't walk around constantly tensed and ready to go.

At that point it seems like you’re introducing an entire new subsystem into the game with its own ruleset to keep track of that offers no mechanical benefit other than avoiding a particular phrasing that you don’t care for.

I’m concerned enough as it is that “Open” and “Press” traits making combos and the versatile “pick at the start of each day” are going to make fighters too complex for new players as it is.

Oh yeah I don't personally want it. Just offering an idea that I wouldn't mind as a compromise if it was in. I also don't think it is a thing, otherwise it would have been mentioned, but a unifying mechanic that mirrors Spell points for psychical powers wouldn't be too amiss.


Starfinder Charter Superscriber

I like everything but the familiars—I kinda hoped they’d be quietly left behind...

Liberty's Edge

4 people marked this as a favorite.
Jhaeman wrote:
I like everything but the familiars—I kinda hoped they’d be quietly left behind...

Nah, some people like having a Familiar. And it costs the people who don't want one basically nothing to have them around as a Feat option.

You can easily avoid them by just not taking the Feat, after all.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Jhaeman wrote:
I like everything but the familiars—I kinda hoped they’d be quietly left behind...

well they are completely optional now, no one forces you to take one - I guess that is somewhat of a step forward

And there are enough people who want their critters, for whatever reason (one of my players wanted a pretty basic familiar just to have a little fuzzy friend) I am glad that many can have that now


2 people marked this as a favorite.

The winged cat is a classic familiar, did not Jhary-a-Connel, The Companion to Champions in the Courm series have one?


I’m glad to see familiars are being reworked. Hopefully People with enough ranks in Spellcraft or Use Magic Device can use a Skill Feat to acquire one. It always saddened me how few options there were for a Cleric to get one. Also if improved Familiar is still in the game, PLEASE remove the “caster level” requirement that made it really confusing whether or not Rogues and Alchemists could have Pseudodragon familiars.

And also please remove the individual buffs depending on the animal idea. As soon as that accursed Greensting Scorpion came out, I had to homebrew the bonuses away just so my players would considering picking something that WASN’T the +4 Init on 6 legs.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

Mechanically, the value of a familiar is to potentially get more actions per round in total; and the fact the familiar can get to places the character can't. But its biggest value is on the roleplaying side: A player equipped with a familiar effectively gets two characters to play, and that can be huge fun. Now even more so as every familiar can acquire the ability to talk.

The familiar is a classic trope, it really belongs in the game. The new rules make the familiar more useful potentially, and they open the avenues through which many characters can get one. So, I expect to see more of them. I can't wait to see what some of my players will come up with.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Malk_Content wrote:
Perhaps Stamina can be a smaller but quickly regenerating resource? As such a dedicated martial can hold a physically demanding stance for a period of time less arbitrary than "encounter length" can do this many encounters a day but can't walk around constantly tensed and ready to go.

That'd be a much better solution. But with Paizo's effort to move towards everything being the same I'm not convinced they'd do that.

Weather Report wrote:
The good news, for those that feel that way, is stances started in 3rd Ed (ToB). 4th Ed brought them back with the latter day Essentials line.

I have nothing wrong with stances. My issue is solely with "encounter" powers making a comeback. Paizo's said we're effectively getting spells with encounter length durations, but they're doing that by calculating what the average encounter duration will be and making the spells last that amount of time. I'm okay with that. Actual "until the end of the encounter" durations are what the problem is. And it isn't because it's 4e-allergies. It's because you've taken what could be represented within the in-game framework and make it a "gamist" ability. If you like gamist powers, that's great. Other people (and one of the selling points of PF1e) prefer a more narrativistic framework for mechanics.

Having one preference over another when we're playing a game of dress up elves is hardly more mature than the other and it's ridiculous to try to imply otherwise.


John Lynch 106 wrote:


Weather Report wrote:
The good news, for those that feel that way, is stances started in 3rd Ed (ToB). 4th Ed brought them back with the latter day Essentials line.

I have nothing wrong with stances. My issue is solely with "encounter" powers making a comeback. Paizo's said we're effectively getting spells with encounter length durations, but they're doing that by calculating what the average encounter duration will be and making the spells last that amount of time. I'm okay with that. Actual "until the end of the encounter" durations are what the problem is. And it isn't because it's 4e-allergies. It's because you've taken what could be represented within the in-game framework and make it a "gamist" ability. If you like gamist powers, that's great. Other people (and one of the selling points of PF1e) prefer a more narrativistic framework for mechanics.

I believe stances in 3rd Ed last until you take a swift action to change, so you start an encounter in whatever stance you like.

51 to 100 of 238 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | next > last >>
Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion / Paizo Blog: Hail the Gauntlet! All Messageboards