Paladin Class Preview

Monday, May 7, 2018

All it takes is a cursory browse of the Paizo forums to see that paladins are not just the most contentious class in Pathfinder, they are the most contentious conversation topic. Weeks before we previewed the class, multiple threads with thousands of posts arose in advance, filled with passionate fans with many different opinions and plenty of good ideas. Turns out, the Paizo office isn't too different.

The Quest for the Holy Grail

Early last year, I went on a sacred quest through the office and surveyed all the different opinions out there about paladins. Turns out, almost everyone had slightly different thoughts. But there was one element in common: whether they wanted paladins of all alignments, paladins of the four extreme alignments, lawful good paladins and chaotic evil antipaladins, lawful evil tyrant antipaladins, or even just lawful good paladins alone, everyone was interested in robust support for the idea that paladins should be champions of their deity and alignment. That is to say, whatever alignments paladins have, they should have an array of abilities deeply tied into that alignment.

Since that was the aspect of the paladin that everyone agreed upon, that's what we wanted to make sure we got right in the playtest. But given the limited space for the playtest, we chose to focus on getting that aspect fine-tuned for one alignment, and so in this book we're presenting only lawful good paladins. That doesn't mean antipaladins and tyrants are gone (there's even an antipaladin foe in one of the adventures!) or that the door is closed to other sorts of paladins down the road. We'll have a playtest survey on the matter, we're open to more opinions, and even among the four designers we have different ideas. But we want to focus the playtest on getting lawful good paladins right, first and foremost. If or when we do make more paladins and antipaladins, having constructed a solid foundation for how an alignment-driven champion functions will be a crucial step to making all of them engaging and different in play.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

The Code

Tell me if you've heard this one before: My paladin was brought to a court where she was forced to testify under oath to tell the whole truth, by a legitimate authority, about the whereabouts of certain innocent witnesses, but she knows that if she answers the questions, a villain is going to use that information to track down and harm the innocents. It's the "Inquiring Murderer" quandary from moral philosophy set in a way that manages to pin you between not just two but three different restrictions in the old paladin code. Sure, I can beg and plead with the judge that the information, if released, would harm innocents, but ultimately if the judge persists, I'm in trouble. These sorts of situations are some of the most common paladin threads on the forums, and they're never easy.

With the playtest presenting the opportunity, I wanted to analyze the paladin's code down to basic principles and keep all the important roleplaying aspects that make paladins the trustworthy champions of law and good we've come to expect while drastically reducing, and hopefully eliminating, the no-win situations. Here's what it looks like at the moment.

Code of Conduct

Paladins are divine champions of a deity. You must be lawful good and worship a deity that allows lawful good clerics. Actions fundamentally opposed to your deity's alignment or ideals are anathema to your faith. A few examples of acts that would be considered anathema appear in each deity's entry. You and your GM will determine whether other acts count as anathema.

In addition, you must follow the paladin's code below. Deities often add additional strictures for their own paladins (for instance, Shelyn's paladins never attack first except to protect an innocent, and they choose and perfect an art).

If you stray from lawful good, perform acts anathema to your deity, or violate your code of conduct, you lose your Spell Point pool and righteous ally class feature (which we talk more about below) until you demonstrate your repentance by conducting an atone ritual, but you keep any other paladin abilities that don't require those class features.

The Paladin's Code

The following is the fundamental code all paladins follow. The tenets are listed in order of importance, starting with the most important. If a situation places two tenets in conflict, you aren't in a no-win situation; instead, follow the most important tenet. For instance, if an evil king asked you if innocent lawbreakers were hiding in your church so he could execute them, you could lie to him, since the tenet forbidding you to lie is less important than the tenet prohibiting the harm of an innocent. An attempt to subvert the paladin code by engineering a situation allowing you to use a higher tenet to ignore a lower tenet (telling someone that you won't respect lawful authorities so that the tenet of not lying supersedes the tenet of respecting lawful authorities, for example) is a violation of the paladin code.

  • You must never willingly commit an evil act, such as murder, torture, or casting an evil spell.
  • You must not take actions that you know will harm an innocent, or through inaction cause an innocent to come to immediate harm when you knew your action could reasonably prevent it. This tenet doesn't force you to take action against possible harm to innocents or to sacrifice your life and future potential in an attempt to protect an innocent.
  • You must act with honor, never cheating, lying, or taking advantage of others.
  • You must respect the lawful authority of the legitimate ruler or leadership in whichever land you may be, following their laws unless they violate a higher tenet.

So let's break down what's the same and what's different. We still have all the basic tenets of the paladin from Pathfinder First Edition, with one exception: we've removed poison from the tenet of acting with honor. While there are certainly dishonorable ways to use poison, poisoning a weapon and using it in an honorable combat that allows enhanced weaponry doesn't seem much different than lighting the weapon on fire. However, by ordering the tenets and allowing the paladin to prioritize the most important tenets in the event of a conflict, we've cut down on the no-win situations. And of course, this opens a design space to play around with the tenets themselves, something we've done by incorporating one of the most popular non-core aspects for paladins...

Oaths

Oaths allow you to play around with the tenets of your code while also gaining mechanical advantages. For instance, the Fiendsbane Oath allows you to dish out near-constant retribution against fiends and eventually block their dimensional travel with an Anchoring Aura. Unlike in Pathfinder First Edition, oaths are feats, and you don't need an archetype to gain one.

Paladin Features

As many of you guessed when Jason mentioned it, paladin was the mystery class that gains the highest heavy armor proficiency, eventually reaching legendary proficiency in armor and master proficiency in weapons, as opposed to fighters, who gain the reverse. At 1st level, you also gain the Retributive Strike reaction, allowing you to counterattack and enfeeble any foe that hits one of your allies (Shelyn save those who strike your storm druid ally). You also get lay on hands, a single-action healing spell that not only heals the target but also raises their AC for a round to help prevent future damage. Combine that effect used on yourself with a raised shield, and you can make it pretty hard for a foe to hit you, and it helps recovering allies avoid another beating.

Lay on hands is the first of a paladin's champion powers, which include a whole bunch of elective options via feats. One of my favorites, gained automatically at 19th level, is hero's defiance, which makes a paladin incredibly difficult to take down. It lets you keep standing when you fall to 0 HP, gives you a big boost of Hit Points, and doesn't even use up your reaction! Leading up to that, you gain a bunch of fun smite-related boosts, including the righteous ally class feature that you saw mentioned in the code. This is a 3rd-level ability that lets you house a holy spirit in a weapon or a steed, much like before, but also in a shield, like the fan-favorite sacred shield archetype!

Paladin Feats

In addition to the oath feats I mentioned when talking about the code, paladins have feats customized to work with the various righteous ally options, like Second Ally, a level 8 feat that lets you gain a second righteous ally. There are also a variety of auras that you can gain to improve yourself and your allies, from the humble 4th-level Aura of Courage, which reduces the frightened condition for you when you gain it and at the end of your turn for you and your allies, to the mighty 14th-level Aura of Righteousness, which gives you and your allies resistance to evil damage. Feats that improve or alter your lay on hands include mercy feats, which allow you to remove harmful conditions and afflictions with lay on hands, up to and including death itself with Ultimate Mercy. And we can't forget potent additional reactions like Divine Grace, granting you a saving throw boost at 2nd level, and Attack of Opportunity at 6th level.

To close out, I'll tell you about one more popular non-core paladin ability we brought in, a special type of power called...

Litanies

Following their mold from Pathfinder RPG Ultimate Combat, litanies are single-action Verbal Casting spells that last 1 round and create various effects. For instance, litany of righteousness makes an enemy weak to your allies' attacks, and litany against sloth slows down an enemy, costing it reactions and potentially actions as well. One of the coolest story features of the litanies against sins is that they now explicitly work better against creatures strongly aligned with their sin, so a dretch (a.k.a. a sloth demon) or a sloth sinspawn treats its saving throw outcome for litany against sloth as one degree worse!

Just as a reminder to everyone, please be respectful to each other. Many of us have strong opinions about the paladin, and that's OK, even if we each have different feelings.

Mark Seifter
Designer

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Mark Seifter wrote:
I will say that those who think that hero's defiance may share a name with a PF1 spell that has a similar niche, but it's a much more powerful heal than people may be giving it credit for (19 dice of healing, and it doesn't even use your reaction!).

There's one person in my group who (hopefully) will be glad to hear that. He reacted less than spectacularly on learning Hero's Defiance was a level 19 ability.

Mark Seifter wrote:
a free weapon rune (at all times, not activated via an action for a set duration as in PF1)

Personally I find this intriguing and am looking forward to learning more detail when the time comes, and how it stacks up to the "limited but additive" version PF1e had. Though I'll probably be taking the shield option when the time comes TBQH, my current vision has a distinct Spartan theme, with the biggest shield I can possibly get and still use it offensively... Shame this isn't the thread to ask if you can put a boss on a Tower Shield.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
So putting THAT aside, can we take your post as confirmation that the Paladin does still get traditional spellcasting, presumably of the 5th level variety? It wasn't entirely clear in the blog post, to the point where many were wondering if the Paladin didn't get spells at all and simply had the points pool to reflect its various (Su) and (Sp) abilities.
I can get wordy when it comes to design diary type information, but either of the two topics suggested (by you and HWalsh) would use up a lot of words to fully explain in a comprehensive fashion, and I already maxed out my words for the blog to cover the elephant in the room. I will say that those who think that hero's defiance may share a name with a PF1 spell that has a similar niche, but it's a much more powerful heal than people may be giving it credit for (19 dice of healing, and it doesn't even use your reaction!). Also, some people were asking about righteous ally. It's basically what you would expect from the blog. You either get a mount, a free weapon rune (at all times, not activated via an action for a set duration as in PF1) or some sweet shield buffs, and then you can take more feats to get even cooler abilities for your ally (mount upgrades, cooler runes, more shield benefits).

Now *this* is info we *can* discuss.

So... Hold on.

Righteous Ally is basically Divine Bond - And the weapon version of it is a free weapon rune... That is permanent.

This interests me...

This is discussible.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:


Even though good > lawful in the paladin code, there will still be times when a paladin will be compelled to uphold a law that a devout saranrite (?) might find objectionable.

I’d think Saranrae wouldn’t want her followers to stand by sometimes the way they might be compelled to due to their respect for rightful authority.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with Iomedae “keeping secrets”. I think lawful good champions are just not Saranrae’s thing. She doesn’t think lawful is an ideal worth striving for (and binding her devotees so tightly to this strict code would itself drift into lawfulness). She’d rather they have more flexibility in their fight against evil.

So why can't she empower folks in a similar fashion?

Bardic Dave wrote:
My understanding is that Sarenrae can have Paladins in PF2. She is NG, and it's likely that her Deity profile explicitly allows LG Clerics. Any Deity that allows LG Clerics can have Paladins, so Sarenrae can probably have Paladins.

Yes, but why can't they be her 'flavor' of Good?

Like I said in the bigger post you both quoted, it's a disconnect and it's very jarring, and if there was at least some flavor beyond "Oh, Laws are what a growing Paladin needs." I think the meta behind it might be more understandable?

Maybe?

Designer

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HWalsh wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
So putting THAT aside, can we take your post as confirmation that the Paladin does still get traditional spellcasting, presumably of the 5th level variety? It wasn't entirely clear in the blog post, to the point where many were wondering if the Paladin didn't get spells at all and simply had the points pool to reflect its various (Su) and (Sp) abilities.
I can get wordy when it comes to design diary type information, but either of the two topics suggested (by you and HWalsh) would use up a lot of words to fully explain in a comprehensive fashion, and I already maxed out my words for the blog to cover the elephant in the room. I will say that those who think that hero's defiance may share a name with a PF1 spell that has a similar niche, but it's a much more powerful heal than people may be giving it credit for (19 dice of healing, and it doesn't even use your reaction!). Also, some people were asking about righteous ally. It's basically what you would expect from the blog. You either get a mount, a free weapon rune (at all times, not activated via an action for a set duration as in PF1) or some sweet shield buffs, and then you can take more feats to get even cooler abilities for your ally (mount upgrades, cooler runes, more shield benefits).

Now *this* is info we *can* discuss.

So... Hold on.

Righteous Ally is basically Divine Bond - And the weapon version of it is a free weapon rune... That is permanent.

This interests me...

This is discussible.

Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
I've been trying to formulate and parse one of the 'disconnects' with Best Lawful Good having Paladins and Neutral Good not, and I think I've come up with why it bothers me.

For me the disconnect is a deity like Shelyn: she can provide power for the traditional LG paladin BUT if she was mortal, she herself wouldn't qualify to be one even though she encourages mercy and redemption.


You said that so oddly. I can't even explain it.

But I am curious about weapon runes now and the fact that it seems that you can take feats so maybe if you want to have your mount be super good or your weapon just super neat then that is an option you character can take. So I could have say a concept where My paladins powers are focused on his sword and then the build should come along nicely by itself. Sounds pretty cool to me.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.

Ooh, I like this. I probably won't be moving it between weapons because I'm the type to pick a weapon and stick with it, but changing what the enchantment is on a day to day basis? That's good stuff.


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So, one of the things that bothered me about PF1, was that combat was over so fast that things like divine bond were never used.

It could only really be used if you got the jump on an opponent. It lasted 10 rounds, but the average fight was 2-3.

In PFS this is incredibly bad.

When someone can pounce for 140 damage, another Kineticist can blast for 105, the Cavalier charges for 170, and the blockbuster wizard can drop 135 damage on the whole room...

Well... Spending a standard action to add 2d6 holy to your sword so next round you can add a whole 7 avg damage to your 1d8+20 (with power attack) doesnt seem worth it.

So a permanent effect is good...


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


Even though good > lawful in the paladin code, there will still be times when a paladin will be compelled to uphold a law that a devout saranrite (?) might find objectionable.

I’d think Saranrae wouldn’t want her followers to stand by sometimes the way they might be compelled to due to their respect for rightful authority.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with Iomedae “keeping secrets”. I think lawful good champions are just not Saranrae’s thing. She doesn’t think lawful is an ideal worth striving for (and binding her devotees so tightly to this strict code would itself drift into lawfulness). She’d rather they have more flexibility in their fight against evil.

So why can't she empower folks in a similar fashion?

I think she can she just doesn’t. (I also think Pharasma could raise an army of undead to further her aims).

This interpretation is just that it’s not the way Sarenrae operates. She could have paladins following a code and deriving power from that pure devotion to a strict set of tenets - but that’s just a little too restrictive and potentially constraining for her (non lawful) tastes.

Designer

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Vidmaster7 wrote:

You said that so oddly. I can't even explain it.

But I am curious about weapon runes now and the fact that it seems that you can take feats so maybe if you want to have your mount be super good or your weapon just super neat then that is an option you character can take. So I could have say a concept where My paladins powers are focused on his sword and then the build should come along nicely by itself. Sounds pretty cool to me.

The sword feats are much more offense-based, the shield feats are more defensive (I'm sure these two are no shockers to anyone), and the mount ones make your mount cooler.


Mark Seifter wrote:
HWalsh wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
So putting THAT aside, can we take your post as confirmation that the Paladin does still get traditional spellcasting, presumably of the 5th level variety? It wasn't entirely clear in the blog post, to the point where many were wondering if the Paladin didn't get spells at all and simply had the points pool to reflect its various (Su) and (Sp) abilities.
I can get wordy when it comes to design diary type information, but either of the two topics suggested (by you and HWalsh) would use up a lot of words to fully explain in a comprehensive fashion, and I already maxed out my words for the blog to cover the elephant in the room. I will say that those who think that hero's defiance may share a name with a PF1 spell that has a similar niche, but it's a much more powerful heal than people may be giving it credit for (19 dice of healing, and it doesn't even use your reaction!). Also, some people were asking about righteous ally. It's basically what you would expect from the blog. You either get a mount, a free weapon rune (at all times, not activated via an action for a set duration as in PF1) or some sweet shield buffs, and then you can take more feats to get even cooler abilities for your ally (mount upgrades, cooler runes, more shield benefits).

Now *this* is info we *can* discuss.

So... Hold on.

Righteous Ally is basically Divine Bond - And the weapon version of it is a free weapon rune... That is permanent.

This interests me...

This is discussible.

Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.

Can I get a class feat that lets me blow spell points to change my tune that day? I want that to be true.

I am excited.


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HWalsh wrote:

So, one of the things that bothered me about PF1, was that Combat was over so fast that things like divine bond were never used.

It could only really be used if you got the jump on an opponent. It lasted 10 rounds, but the average fight was 2-3.

In PFS this is incredibly bad.

When someone can pounce for 140 damage, another Kineticist can blast for 105, the Cavalier charges for 170, and the blockbuster wizard can drop 135 damage on the whole room...

Well... Spending a standard action to add 2d6 holy to your sword so next round you can add a whole 7 avg damage to your 1d8+20 (with power attack) doesnt seem worth it.

So a permanent effect is good...

To be fair combats being that short are largely because PFS is either playing softball or outright trying to kill you with very little in between (I can think of exactly one PFS scenario I participated in I would consider "difficult, but fair"). Their absolute adoration for single enemy fights certainly does not help matters.

Designer

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Excaliburproxy wrote:

Can I get a class feature that lets me blow spell points to change my tune that day. I want that to be true.

I am excited.

That is not a power in the playtest...but that is a really cool idea. I sent an e-mail to my work e-mail to remind myself to write it down in my scratch pad of cool ideas tomorrow when I'm at work.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
So putting THAT aside, can we take your post as confirmation that the Paladin does still get traditional spellcasting, presumably of the 5th level variety? It wasn't entirely clear in the blog post, to the point where many were wondering if the Paladin didn't get spells at all and simply had the points pool to reflect its various (Su) and (Sp) abilities.
I can get wordy when it comes to design diary type information, but either of the two topics suggested (by you and HWalsh) would use up a lot of words to fully explain in a comprehensive fashion, and I already maxed out my words for the blog to cover the elephant in the room. I will say that those who think that hero's defiance may share a name with a PF1 spell that has a similar niche, but it's a much more powerful heal than people may be giving it credit for (19 dice of healing, and it doesn't even use your reaction!). Also, some people were asking about righteous ally. It's basically what you would expect from the blog. You either get a mount, a free weapon rune (at all times, not activated via an action for a set duration as in PF1) or some sweet shield buffs, and then you can take more feats to get even cooler abilities for your ally (mount upgrades, cooler runes, more shield benefits).

I don't know if you can tease this but is there a way to get the ability to be flexible? i.e. Depending on the situation you can choose a better mount, a better weapon, or a better shield. I feel like you can easily be flexible at a cost. You can choose a main thing to upgrade and buff. But later on you can gain the ability to use an un-upgraded/un-talented ability. You spend levels increasing your weapon rune buff. But then you gain the ability to use a vanilla/basic version of the shield buff.


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Steve Geddes wrote:


This interpretation is just that it’s not the way she operates. She could have paladins following a code and deriving power from that pure devotion to a strict set of tenets - but that’s just a little to restrictive and potentially constraining for her (non lawful) tastes.

She's a DEITY in Golarion.

The class of entities that does not get stats because they didn't want players 'attacking X deity'.

The sort of power that the rules of Man do not apply.

So why can't she have Neutral Good champions (no, not warpriests/paladins/clerics)?

What prevents her from making this a reality?


Mark Seifter wrote:
Vidmaster7 wrote:

You said that so oddly. I can't even explain it.

But I am curious about weapon runes now and the fact that it seems that you can take feats so maybe if you want to have your mount be super good or your weapon just super neat then that is an option you character can take. So I could have say a concept where My paladins powers are focused on his sword and then the build should come along nicely by itself. Sounds pretty cool to me.

The sword feats are much more offense-based, the shield feats are more defensive (I'm sure these two are no shockers to anyone), and the mount ones make your mount cooler.

I think you found the winner with the weapon rune thing...

Seems to have caught a lot of people's attention.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.

I find the wording of the bolded part interesting. "...from the ones you have available to you." Sounds like the base form is going to be limited (maybe just Potency, or maybe an Alignment, maybe get to pick from those 2-3 options?) and then you'll get more options through class feats. Very intriguing.

I'm curious too what tricks the Board pally will get too. And not just because I'm thinking about playing one.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:

Can I get a class feature that lets me blow spell points to change my tune that day. I want that to be true.

I am excited.

That is not a power in the playtest...but that is a really cool idea. I sent an e-mail to my work e-mail to remind myself to write it down in my scratch pad of cool ideas tomorrow when I'm at work.

thanks for posting when you aren't at work.

Designer

7 people marked this as a favorite.
42nfl19 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
So putting THAT aside, can we take your post as confirmation that the Paladin does still get traditional spellcasting, presumably of the 5th level variety? It wasn't entirely clear in the blog post, to the point where many were wondering if the Paladin didn't get spells at all and simply had the points pool to reflect its various (Su) and (Sp) abilities.
I can get wordy when it comes to design diary type information, but either of the two topics suggested (by you and HWalsh) would use up a lot of words to fully explain in a comprehensive fashion, and I already maxed out my words for the blog to cover the elephant in the room. I will say that those who think that hero's defiance may share a name with a PF1 spell that has a similar niche, but it's a much more powerful heal than people may be giving it credit for (19 dice of healing, and it doesn't even use your reaction!). Also, some people were asking about righteous ally. It's basically what you would expect from the blog. You either get a mount, a free weapon rune (at all times, not activated via an action for a set duration as in PF1) or some sweet shield buffs, and then you can take more feats to get even cooler abilities for your ally (mount upgrades, cooler runes, more shield benefits).
I don't know if you can tease this but is there a way to get the ability to be flexible? i.e. Depending on the situation you can choose a better mount, a better weapon, or a better shield. I feel like you can easily be flexible at a cost. You can choose a main thing to upgrade and buff. But later on you can gain the ability to use an un-upgraded/un-talented ability. You spend levels increasing your weapon rune buff. But then you gain the ability to use a vanilla/basic version of the shield buff.

Second ally lets you have two of them, and we'll get into what kind of retraining you can do a little bit later when we cover downtime (but we're big proponents of letting people experiment with their characters, learning through experience and going back and making some adjustments based on what they discovered through play).


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


This interpretation is just that it’s not the way she operates. She could have paladins following a code and deriving power from that pure devotion to a strict set of tenets - but that’s just a little to restrictive and potentially constraining for her (non lawful) tastes.

She's a DEITY in Golarion.

The class of entities that does not get stats because they didn't want players 'attacking X deity'.

The sort of power that the rules of Man do not apply.

So why can't she have Neutral Good champions (no, not warpriests/paladins/clerics)?

What prevents her from making this a reality?

Nothing prevents her, it’s just not in her nature.

All the deities of Golarion have goals. They achieve those in various ways (largely by gifting their followers with powers), but the fact some have unique methods or gifts doesn’t necessarily mean others are somehow prevented from using them, just that it’s not their style.

Edit: by the way, what does the bolded mean?


Mark Seifter wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:

Can I get a class feature that lets me blow spell points to change my tune that day. I want that to be true.

I am excited.

That is not a power in the playtest...but that is a really cool idea. I sent an e-mail to my work e-mail to remind myself to write it down in my scratch pad of cool ideas tomorrow when I'm at work.

You are a good man, Mark.


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Steve Geddes wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


This interpretation is just that it’s not the way she operates. She could have paladins following a code and deriving power from that pure devotion to a strict set of tenets - but that’s just a little to restrictive and potentially constraining for her (non lawful) tastes.

She's a DEITY in Golarion.

The class of entities that does not get stats because they didn't want players 'attacking X deity'.

The sort of power that the rules of Man do not apply.

So why can't she have Neutral Good champions (no, not warpriests/paladins/clerics)?

What prevents her from making this a reality?

Nothing prevents her, it’s just not in her nature.

All the deities off Golarion have goals. They achieve those in various ways, but the fact some have unique methods doesn’t necessarily mean others are somehow prevented from using them, just that it’s not their style.

so the warrior goddess doesn't want divi e warriors... What? That makes no sense.


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Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


This interpretation is just that it’s not the way she operates. She could have paladins following a code and deriving power from that pure devotion to a strict set of tenets - but that’s just a little to restrictive and potentially constraining for her (non lawful) tastes.

She's a DEITY in Golarion.

The class of entities that does not get stats because they didn't want players 'attacking X deity'.

The sort of power that the rules of Man do not apply.

So why can't she have Neutral Good champions (no, not warpriests/paladins/clerics)?

What prevents her from making this a reality?

The Gods above Gods: The Designers. (*Disclaimer* This is a tongue-in-cheek response not to be taken seriously. Pls don't take it seriously.)

Designer

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Shinigami02 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.

I find the wording of the bolded part interesting. "...from the ones you have available to you." Sounds like the base form is going to be limited (maybe just Potency, or maybe an Alignment, maybe get to pick from those 2-3 options?) and then you'll get more options through class feats. Very intriguing.

I'm curious too what tricks the Board pally will get too. And not just because I'm thinking about playing one.

You are correct about that. Some of the blade ally feats expand your options to more powerful runes.

As to shield-users, a lot of their options focus on shield durability and shield flexibility. Eventually, the shield ally can just retreat to the celestial planes and regenerate itself and return to you later, even in the face of something like disintegrate that would otherwise annihilate it (not to mention it can ready itself for you so you don't need to spend the action; pretty handy. And oh, both those things are from a single, admittedly powerful, feat!)


Arachnofiend wrote:
HWalsh wrote:

So, one of the things that bothered me about PF1, was that Combat was over so fast that things like divine bond were never used.

It could only really be used if you got the jump on an opponent. It lasted 10 rounds, but the average fight was 2-3.

In PFS this is incredibly bad.

When someone can pounce for 140 damage, another Kineticist can blast for 105, the Cavalier charges for 170, and the blockbuster wizard can drop 135 damage on the whole room...

Well... Spending a standard action to add 2d6 holy to your sword so next round you can add a whole 7 avg damage to your 1d8+20 (with power attack) doesnt seem worth it.

So a permanent effect is good...

To be fair combats being that short are largely because PFS is either playing softball or outright trying to kill you with very little in between (I can think of exactly one PFS scenario I participated in I would consider "difficult, but fair"). Their absolute adoration for single enemy fights certainly does not help matters.

You get what I mean though having a rune you can swap per day helps with fast fights.

I mean, in tonight's real life PFS game my Paladin minced the boss in 1 round. I double critted on a full attack boosted by smite. 72 damage and 75 damage. 147 damage. Boss dead.

If anyone had spent any time prepping, well, fight was over before they could attack.

Rocket tag is no fun and the less prep time a class needs the better. So this Righteous Ally i like. A lot.


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Rob Godfrey wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:
Steve Geddes wrote:


This interpretation is just that it’s not the way she operates. She could have paladins following a code and deriving power from that pure devotion to a strict set of tenets - but that’s just a little to restrictive and potentially constraining for her (non lawful) tastes.

She's a DEITY in Golarion.

The class of entities that does not get stats because they didn't want players 'attacking X deity'.

The sort of power that the rules of Man do not apply.

So why can't she have Neutral Good champions (no, not warpriests/paladins/clerics)?

What prevents her from making this a reality?

Nothing prevents her, it’s just not in her nature.

All the deities off Golarion have goals. They achieve those in various ways, but the fact some have unique methods doesn’t necessarily mean others are somehow prevented from using them, just that it’s not their style.

so the warrior goddess doesn't want divi e warriors... What? That makes no sense.

I guess it wouldn’t have if I’d said that.

Designer

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Excaliburproxy wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:

Can I get a class feature that lets me blow spell points to change my tune that day. I want that to be true.

I am excited.

That is not a power in the playtest...but that is a really cool idea. I sent an e-mail to my work e-mail to remind myself to write it down in my scratch pad of cool ideas tomorrow when I'm at work.
You are a good man, Mark.

Hey, always happy to give credit for a great idea where it's due. Just don't expect it to show up in the playtest is all I ask. We've sent that to the printers already. If anyone gets the book and is like "Where is that power that lets me switch my blade ally? I thought it would be in the book." I'll be sad.

Designer

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Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.
Ooh, I like this. I probably won't be moving it between weapons because I'm the type to pick a weapon and stick with it, but changing what the enchantment is on a day to day basis? That's good stuff.

I hope you don't mind, but we're trying to make your preferred playstyle less mandatory than it was in PF1 while still being useful and effective. It's still probably true that until you get more magic weapon drops or potency runes, you likely have one weapon with a higher potency that's enough more powerful that you use it most of the time, but we don't want to compound it with a lot of abilities that buff your abilities with one particular weapon over others, forcing you to lock yourself into, say, longswords in such a way that any other weapon would be a drastic step down mechanically.


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Also, apologies for being a bit rambling and bad with the typos.

Did real life PFS tonight. Meant sitting up for 5+ hours. Spinal damage be damned I'll still game, but the pain meds i gotta take aftereard make typing on my phone hard.

Pro tip: never get hit by a semi. Optimus Prime hits hard.

Designer

8 people marked this as a favorite.
Rob Godfrey wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Excaliburproxy wrote:

Can I get a class feature that lets me blow spell points to change my tune that day. I want that to be true.

I am excited.

That is not a power in the playtest...but that is a really cool idea. I sent an e-mail to my work e-mail to remind myself to write it down in my scratch pad of cool ideas tomorrow when I'm at work.
thanks for posting when you aren't at work.

Whatever time this is for you guys right now (11:38 for me), I usually get off work roughly 4.5-5 hours ago. But I'm a paizo messageboarder for life, since before working here, so I'm often found around here long past the time when I probably should be.


I hope this does not derail but I had a thought. For the people who wish to lighten/remove the alignment restrictions from the Paladin, does that mean you also wish to remove the alignment restrictions from Druids and Barbarians? Druids in PF1 have to be any neutral. Barbarians can be anything but lawful.There might be some archetypes that can change that, same as the Paladin/Anti-Paladin but it was never a built in core thing. I mean I sometimes wish the names were different. Paladin=sounds cool. Anti-Paladin...sounds kind of dorky. I mean Tyrant is a cool name for a LE pally. Hellknight would of been a cool name for an evil paladin thing but that is taken by something else.

I am in the camp that alignments should be lifted. But I also agree with the otherside. What would the codes be? I mean LG we have, LE and CE we have also. What kind of codes could you have for a CG? What kind of codes can you have for a Neutral? I mean technically the Cavaliers/Samurai have an oath/codes that enable a "neutral"/selfish ways. The Knights Errant or Ronin. Then again, I always saw the Cavalier/Samurai as some weird "neutral" variant of the Paladin. I mean they have no alignment restrictions but they can be seen almost having similar/thematic powers without a deity. IDK I might be wrong and rambling.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.
Ooh, I like this. I probably won't be moving it between weapons because I'm the type to pick a weapon and stick with it, but changing what the enchantment is on a day to day basis? That's good stuff.
I hope you don't mind, but we're trying to make your preferred playstyle less mandatory than it was in PF1 while still being useful and effective. It's still probably true that until you get more magic weapon drops or potency runes, you likely have one weapon with a higher potency that's enough more powerful that you use it most of the time, but we don't want to compound it with a lot of abilities that buff your abilities with one particular weapon over others, forcing you to lock yourself into, say, longswords in such a way that any other weapon would be a drastic step down mechanically.

I don't have any problems with that, just because I like to have a signature weapon doesn't mean it's the one true way to play. If I end up feeling gimped by not running around with a golfbag I'll let you know so you can make the proper adjustments. ;)


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See, as dumb as it is, I always wanted my Paladin to be able to like merge with an angel. Like with Angelic Aspect, but like, at a level like where it could be useful in PFS (it comes online at lvl 10.) I always flavor smite evil to be a Holy energy aura nimbus - straight anime style because I like the visual.

Hope we still can do those things.

Designer

6 people marked this as a favorite.
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.
Ooh, I like this. I probably won't be moving it between weapons because I'm the type to pick a weapon and stick with it, but changing what the enchantment is on a day to day basis? That's good stuff.
I hope you don't mind, but we're trying to make your preferred playstyle less mandatory than it was in PF1 while still being useful and effective. It's still probably true that until you get more magic weapon drops or potency runes, you likely have one weapon with a higher potency that's enough more powerful that you use it most of the time, but we don't want to compound it with a lot of abilities that buff your abilities with one particular weapon over others, forcing you to lock yourself into, say, longswords in such a way that any other weapon would be a drastic step down mechanically.
I don't have any problems with that, just because I like to have a signature weapon doesn't mean it's the one true way to play. If I end up feeling gimped by not running around with a golfbag I'll let you know so you can make the proper adjustments. ;)

I doubt you will, it's still really efficient money-wise not to be toting around a bunch of fully kitted weapons. As an aside, let's avoid using the term 'gimp.' I know not everyone who uses it as a gaming term necessarily knows this, but it comes from a slur for someone who is disabled or physically impaired.


4 people marked this as a favorite.
42nfl19 wrote:

I hope this does not derail but I had a thought. For the people who wish to lighten/remove the alignment restrictions from the Paladin, does that mean you also wish to remove the alignment restrictions from Druids and Barbarians? Druids in PF1 have to be any neutral. Barbarians can be anything but lawful.There might be some archetypes that can change that, same as the Paladin/Anti-Paladin but it was never a built in core thing. I mean I sometimes wish the names were different. Paladin=sounds cool. Anti-Paladin...sounds kind of dorky. I mean Tyrant is a cool name for a LE pally. Hellknight would of been a cool name for an evil paladin thing but that is taken by something else.

I am in the camp that alignments should be lifted. But I also agree with the otherside. What would the codes be? I mean LG we have, LE and CE we have also. What kind of codes could you have for a CG? What kind of codes can you have for a Neutral? I mean technically the Cavaliers/Samurai have an oath/codes that enable a "neutral"/selfish ways. The Knights Errant or Ronin. Then again, I always saw the Cavalier/Samurai as some weird "neutral" variant of the Paladin. I mean they have no alignment restrictions but they can be seen almost having similar/thematic powers without a deity. IDK I might be wrong and rambling.

Personally I care about Chaotic Monks and Lawful Barbarians more than I do CG Paladins. The former especially is ridiculous to me, there are plenty of non-lawful monks in fiction and reality.

Mark Seifter wrote:
I doubt you will, it's still really efficient money-wise not to be toting around a bunch of fully kitted weapons. As an aside, let's avoid using the term 'gimp.' I know not everyone who uses it as a gaming term necessarily knows this, but it comes from a slur for someone who is disabled or physically impaired.

I actually was not aware of that. I'll avoid using the term in the future.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Whatever time this is for you guys right now (11:38 for me), I usually get off work roughly 4.5-5 hours ago. But I'm a paizo messageboarder for life, since before working here, so I'm often found around here long past the time when I probably should be.

LOL Yep, I'm a "paizo messageboarder for life" too. Here it's 2:46. ;)

Designer

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HWalsh wrote:

See, as dumb as it is, I always wanted my Paladin to be able to like merge with an angel. Like with Angelic Aspect, but like, at a level like where it could be useful in PFS (it comes online at lvl 10.) I always flavor smite evil to be a Holy energy aura nimbus - straight anime style because I like the visual.

Hope we still can do those things.

You can probably do this a lot more than with the PF1 CRB. For one, I think there is a class feat that flat-out gives you angel wings (I may be confusing it with the one that gives your mount angel wings, but I think they both exist; we don't have copies at home). For another, there is a funny side thing you can do, not completely related to paladin mind, but very feasible for a paladin, that can literally give you a angelic halo. And I am not in the habit of using the word literally to mean figuratively.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.
Ooh, I like this. I probably won't be moving it between weapons because I'm the type to pick a weapon and stick with it, but changing what the enchantment is on a day to day basis? That's good stuff.
I hope you don't mind, but we're trying to make your preferred playstyle less mandatory than it was in PF1 while still being useful and effective. It's still probably true that until you get more magic weapon drops or potency runes, you likely have one weapon with a higher potency that's enough more powerful that you use it most of the time, but we don't want to compound it with a lot of abilities that buff your abilities with one particular weapon over others, forcing you to lock yourself into, say, longswords in such a way that any other weapon would be a drastic step down mechanically.
I don't have any problems with that, just because I like to have a signature weapon doesn't mean it's the one true way to play. If I end up feeling gimped by not running around with a golfbag I'll let you know so you can make the proper adjustments. ;)
I doubt you will, it's still really efficient money-wise not to be toting around a bunch of fully kitted weapons. As an aside, let's avoid using the term 'gimp.' I know not everyone who uses it as a gaming term necessarily knows this, but it comes from a slur for someone who is disabled or physically impaired.

As someone closing in on one year stuck in a chair I can second that. It's not a fun term. It doesn't generally bug me, I mean I get called worse, but I appreciate the concern.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.
Ooh, I like this. I probably won't be moving it between weapons because I'm the type to pick a weapon and stick with it, but changing what the enchantment is on a day to day basis? That's good stuff.
I hope you don't mind, but we're trying to make your preferred playstyle less mandatory than it was in PF1 while still being useful and effective. It's still probably true that until you get more magic weapon drops or potency runes, you likely have one weapon with a higher potency that's enough more powerful that you use it most of the time, but we don't want to compound it with a lot of abilities that buff your abilities with one particular weapon over others, forcing you to lock yourself into, say, longswords in such a way that any other weapon would be a drastic step down mechanically.
I don't have any problems with that, just because I like to have a signature weapon doesn't mean it's the one true way to play. If I end up feeling gimped by not running around with a golfbag I'll let you know so you can make the proper adjustments. ;)
I doubt you will, it's still really efficient money-wise not to be toting around a bunch of fully kitted weapons. As an aside, let's avoid using the term 'gimp.' I know not everyone who uses it as a gaming term necessarily knows this, but it comes from a slur for someone who is disabled or physically impaired.

I think I asked this before but how easy it is to transfer weapon runes from one thing to another? Do you need an equal level of proficiency to the level of rune/weapon? Is it something available to everyone with downtime rules? How do runes stack? Let's say you have a +1 rune and a fire rune. Can you combine them? Or do you need a separate +1 flame rune if you want to have both abilities?

How does it work with characters that can essentially buff their weapons with their own self runes? Paladins and Magi could add enchantments to weapons with existing enchantments already. Is there a limit like before?


Mark Seifter wrote:
HWalsh wrote:

See, as dumb as it is, I always wanted my Paladin to be able to like merge with an angel. Like with Angelic Aspect, but like, at a level like where it could be useful in PFS (it comes online at lvl 10.) I always flavor smite evil to be a Holy energy aura nimbus - straight anime style because I like the visual.

Hope we still can do those things.

You can probably do this a lot more than with the PF1 CRB. For one, I think there is a class feat that flat-out gives you angel wings (I may be confusing it with the one that gives your mount angel wings, but I think they both exist; we don't have copies at home). For another, there is a funny side thing you can do, not completely related to paladin mind, but very feasible for a paladin, that can literally give you a angelic halo. And I am not in the habit of using the word literally to mean figuratively.

Dude. Want.

Want both. Please get back to us that Pallies can pop Angel wings.

I can send like, I can bribe you with cookies sent to your office.

LOL the meds have me a lil goofy atm.

Designer

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Arachnofiend wrote:
42nfl19 wrote:

I hope this does not derail but I had a thought. For the people who wish to lighten/remove the alignment restrictions from the Paladin, does that mean you also wish to remove the alignment restrictions from Druids and Barbarians? Druids in PF1 have to be any neutral. Barbarians can be anything but lawful.There might be some archetypes that can change that, same as the Paladin/Anti-Paladin but it was never a built in core thing. I mean I sometimes wish the names were different. Paladin=sounds cool. Anti-Paladin...sounds kind of dorky. I mean Tyrant is a cool name for a LE pally. Hellknight would of been a cool name for an evil paladin thing but that is taken by something else.

I am in the camp that alignments should be lifted. But I also agree with the otherside. What would the codes be? I mean LG we have, LE and CE we have also. What kind of codes could you have for a CG? What kind of codes can you have for a Neutral? I mean technically the Cavaliers/Samurai have an oath/codes that enable a "neutral"/selfish ways. The Knights Errant or Ronin. Then again, I always saw the Cavalier/Samurai as some weird "neutral" variant of the Paladin. I mean they have no alignment restrictions but they can be seen almost having similar/thematic powers without a deity. IDK I might be wrong and rambling.

Personally I care about Chaotic Monks and Lawful Barbarians than I do CG Paladins. The former especially is ridiculous to me, there are plenty of non-lawful monks in fiction and reality.

I never really understood why we can't have lawful barbarians. If anything, the lawful character who exercises intense discipline to bottle up this unnatural rage and only let it out when it's needed most is super fun to roleplay. It's not the same thing as the paladin though.

Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
I doubt you will, it's still really efficient money-wise not to be toting around a bunch of fully kitted weapons. As an aside, let's avoid using the term 'gimp.' I know not everyone who uses it as a gaming term necessarily knows this, but it comes from a slur for someone who is disabled or physically impaired.
I actually was not aware of that. I'll avoid using the term in the future.

If you don't mind my making this a teachable moment (tm), I want to tie this back to my comment a page or two back about always assuming the best on the internet. I could have easily assumed that you knew about the derivation (and to jump further down the rabbit hole, since you and HWalsh had been disagreeing a few pages back and HWalsh then talked about his disability, I could have thought you were trying to target him), but based on my policy, I figured you just heard the word used to mean weakened without knowing (also I've talked with you enough on various threads by now that I would be surprised if you did that). I've seen a lot of unnecessary internet arguments break out over assuming the worst.

EDIT: This post probably seems bizarrely non-referential if you are reading it now. What is "my policy" from a page or two back? A whole set of posts was removed back there. But basically, the part that matters is "Always read what other people are posting on a messageboard in the best possible light, since you don't have vocal or facial cues to interpret."

Designer

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graystone wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Whatever time this is for you guys right now (11:38 for me), I usually get off work roughly 4.5-5 hours ago. But I'm a paizo messageboarder for life, since before working here, so I'm often found around here long past the time when I probably should be.
LOL Yep, I'm a "paizo messageboarder for life" too. Here it's 2:46. ;)

:Fistbump:

Designer

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42nfl19 wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Ah, it is at all times, but it isn't quite right to say it's permanent. It's much better than permanent. But why is it much better? Because each day you can move the spirit to a different weapon and pick a different rune from the ones you have available to you. Need to fight a lich? Move it to a bludgeoning weapon and pick disrupting. Ice giant jarl's fortress in your way? Move your spirit to a reach weapon and give it flaming. Etc.
Ooh, I like this. I probably won't be moving it between weapons because I'm the type to pick a weapon and stick with it, but changing what the enchantment is on a day to day basis? That's good stuff.
I hope you don't mind, but we're trying to make your preferred playstyle less mandatory than it was in PF1 while still being useful and effective. It's still probably true that until you get more magic weapon drops or potency runes, you likely have one weapon with a higher potency that's enough more powerful that you use it most of the time, but we don't want to compound it with a lot of abilities that buff your abilities with one particular weapon over others, forcing you to lock yourself into, say, longswords in such a way that any other weapon would be a drastic step down mechanically.
I don't have any problems with that, just because I like to have a signature weapon doesn't mean it's the one true way to play. If I end up feeling gimped by not running around with a golfbag I'll let you know so you can make the proper adjustments. ;)
I doubt you will, it's still really efficient money-wise not to be toting around a bunch of fully kitted weapons. As an aside, let's avoid using the term 'gimp.' I know not everyone who uses it as a gaming term necessarily knows this, but it comes from a slur for someone who is disabled or physically impaired.
I think I asked this before but how easy it is to transfer weapon...

I think we should leave the discussion of magic items, beyond what Logan revealed in the gear blog, for a later date when it can get its own full blog. So I will answer all these questions with just three words and my most favorite of all punctuation marks, those heroes of the LISP programming language, parentheses: Etch Rune (Crafting).


Yup. 2:55am here. Can't sleep. Talking about Pallie mechanics is a good way to focus through.


I used to be a game designer. So I really appreciate the candor. Can't do it anymore.

You're not gonna get reamed for doing this are ya Mark? EA woulda been cheesed off if I was ever this open about still in development stuff on forums.


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42nfl19 wrote:
I hope this does not derail but I had a thought. For the people who wish to lighten/remove the alignment restrictions from the Paladin, does that mean you also wish to remove the alignment restrictions from Druids and Barbarians?

Yes. Neither makes a lot of sense when you think about it.

Quote:
I mean I sometimes wish the names were different. Paladin=sounds cool. Anti-Paladin...sounds kind of dorky. I mean Tyrant is a cool name for a LE pally. Hellknight would of been a cool name for an evil paladin thing but that is taken by something else.

Paladin, Paragon, Liberator

Judicator, ???, Anarch
Tyrant, Blackguard, Despoiler

Quote:
What would the codes be? I mean LG we have, LE and CE we have also. What kind of codes could you have for a CG?

I posted one earlier in this thread, essentially switching the mandate from "uphold legitimate authority" to "uphold individual freedom". There was some debate over whether it should still include honor, fairness, and honesty, which petered out with the argument that fairness and honesty are Good rather than Lawful, and honor is preached by Chaotic deities too.

Quote:
What kind of codes can you have for a Neutral?

Uphold the balance of the cosmic forces (i.e. the other alignments). That one's an especially tough sell because, though most people agree that balance between Law and Chaos is the best way to go, there's no compelling reason Good and Evil should be in balance with each other.


Mark Seifter wrote:
42nfl19 wrote:
I think I asked this before but how easy it
I think we should leave the discussion of magic items, beyond what Logan revealed in the gear blog, for a later date when it can get its own full blog. So I will answer all these questions with just three words and my most favorite of all punctuation marks, those heroes of the LISP programming language, parentheses: Etch Rune (Crafting).

With the tease if being Crafting, I hope it becomes more accessible to all/other classes that are not the wizard. It kind of sucked/was sub-optimal if your crafter of magical wondrous items was not a wizard. I am ok with other classes only ever reaching Master or something and the wizard gets Legendary prof or something.


See, I want Paizo, if they do an Antipaladin to go back to the original Dragon Magazine Antipaladin.

Like with the whole, eternal coward and everything. They were great villains.


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Wow im very, very happy to see there are now more options to focus on your companion.

As someone who loves pet classes and focusing on said helpers it gives me hope that the play style i prefer will be open from the start for the classes with these extras.

Cant wait to see the paladin and make a kick ass mount with all the cool feats i can get.

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