Fuzzy Feet and Voles to Meet

Friday, April 13, 2018

Overlooked and disrespected, halflings and gnomes get by in their own way. Human society's misguided expectations don't mean much when you know who you are and what you're about. Let's take a look at the ancestry entries for these folks!

You might also want to take a gander at the Big Beards and Pointy Ears blog to see how dwarves and elves work if you're a fan of ancestries that are entirely too tall and entirely too stuffy.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

Halflings

Living among taller folk gives halflings a good bit of perspective and plenty of opportunities to make new friends—plenty of opportunities of all kinds, really. Keep your eyes open and your heart brave, and you can accomplish anything!

Both halflings and gnomes get 8 Hit Points from their respective ancestries, are Small, and have a speed of 20 feet. A halfling speaks Common and Halfling. Halflings have nimble fingers, giving them an ability boost to Dexterity, and are jovial, getting another ability boost in Charisma. They also get one free ability boost to put in any score. Now, there's nothing wrong with how you're made, but halflings do get an ability flaw to Strength. Seems like a better deal, though. Goblins are a bit stronger, but they're not so wise, and good sense is a good trade. (You can read more about goblins here!)

We've mentioned ability boosts and flaws a few times now, so let's go into more detail about how those work! At 1st level, your ability scores all start at 10. Your ancestry then gives you ability boosts, each of which increases the score by 2. Most ancestries get three ability boosts, two of which have to go into specific scores. The remaining free ability boost can go into any score except the two set ones. Most ancestries also get a flaw, which decreases a designated score by 2. You can put your free ability boost in the same score as your flaw if you want to get back to 10. In later parts of character creation, you'll get more ability boosts, which we'll cover in later blogs! (And if you want to roll your ability scores randomly, we have an option for that in the playtest so you can see how that might work, though we prefer for characters used in the playtest to be generated in the standard way.)

Now, where was I? Halflings, right!

At 1st level and as they level up, halflings can pick up halfling ancestry feats that take advantage of their size, their gumption, and their fabled luck. Distracting Shadows lets them sneak around by using larger creatures as cover. They might also pick up Plucky to overcome fear and other detriments to their emotions. They can take Titan Slinger to get a bonus to damage when using their slings against Large or larger creatures. This bonus increases on critical hits, even before being doubled! Additionally, the sling is now a more formidable weapon than in Pathfinder First Edition—we've both increased its damage and done away with the difference in damage die size between Small and Medium creatures. A halfling with a sling can be pretty dangerous!

One feat we know will be popular is Lucky Halfling, which lets you reroll one skill check or saving throw you fail or critically fail once each day. Rules in the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook list traits that apply to feats, often indicating special rules. This one has the fortune trait, which appears on all sorts of things that involve rerolls and manipulating dice in your favor. You can benefit from fortune only once on a given roll, and misfortune can cancel it out.

As mentioned in the blog post about dwarves and elves, ancestry entries suggest some backgrounds you might choose that are common for those of your ancestry. Halflings are often entertainers, acrobats, or street urchins. Many come from hard lives as criminals or laborers.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

Gnomes

What's THAT?!

A gnome's life is a constant barrage of the curious, the compelling, the cacophonous, the colorful, and the chaotic. There's always something new to discover. There... kind of has to be. See, gnomes who don't take in enough novel experiences are stricken by the Bleaching—their colorful hair turns white as their minds fall into despair. So let's not do that. Let's explore!

Now, when you're exploring, it's good to be durable because who knows what you might encounter. It helps that gnomes are tough and charming, with ability boosts to Constitution and Charisma, plus their one free ability boost to any other score. Gnomes have a flaw in Strength. Who needs it? Magic's better. And alchemical bombs. Those look fun. Gnomes can speak Common, Gnome, and Sylvan, but might want to study up on some other languages too. They can also see in low light—all the better for exploring into the dusk.

Gnomes came from the First World, the realm of the fey, long ago. Their ancestry feats can reflect this, like Fey Fellowship, which makes a gnome more charismatic when dealing with fey, or First World Magic, which gives the gnome a cantrip spell chosen from a wide number of options (including dancing lights, prestidigitation, and tanglefoot, to name a few).

Discerning Smell lets a gnome truly appreciate peculiar food and drink, or sniff out that invisible orc who's caked in the clay from a particular mountain pass, hasn't bathed in roughly 8 years, and recently ate a live bird. (A swallow, fittingly.) And, of course, you can choose Animal Speaker so you can talk to all your favorite burrowing animals!

A gnome's younger years will no doubt be weird, so they could have any kind of background—even a path they abandoned early on. A gnome might be an entertainer, a merchant, a nomad, an animal whisperer, a barkeep, or a farmhand.

How do these two ancestries stack up? (About 6 feet high, I'd say.) What sort of halfling or gnome characters do you look forward to playing?

Logan Bonner
Designer

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Grand Lodge

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Rysky wrote:
Is that Halfling based on Mark Seifter?

That’s why he’s so familiar! And Linda’s the gnome!

Hmm

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Hmm wrote:
I am surprised to hear some gnome-hate out there

That's because gnomes are just wanna-be dwarves :-P

The Exchange

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TwilightKnight wrote:
Fuzzypaws wrote:
They could just make the gobbos +Dex +Con. It really wouldn't be unbalanced, and it would fit trash-scavengers who live in harsh environments.
If I have to accept goblins, this would be a good alternative, though Paizo seems to be married to the only one physical and one mental stat concept. I would suspect some would argue that goblin would make the best martial since they could then spend their floater on Str and boost all three physical stats.

That's exactly why they won't do that.

Though giving them no modifications to mentals at all and giving them -str, +Dex, +Con would fix that, even if it would feel a bit goofy


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eddv wrote:
allows the halfling to fill the role theyre supposed to fill

Uh oh, I think I've been having BadWrongFun again.

What, exactly, is the role that halflings are "supposed" to fill?

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ErichAD wrote:
Aside from needing to remove the bleaching nonsense and changing one of the small races to having an int bonus and another to a wisdom bonus, it all looks pretty okay.

bleeching has been a gnome thing for a long time in pathfinder and helps make them different from d&d gnomes , i doubt they will remove it.

what don't you like about it?


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Hmm wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Is that Halfling based on Mark Seifter?

That’s why he’s so familiar! And Linda’s the gnome!

Hmm

The halfling seems too irritated to be Mark, and the gnome does not have enough knives on her to be Linda.


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The good:

Small characters don't get shafted in the weapon damage department! Honestly, this is more of an issue of remembering small damage dice. Now that that is gone, it just makes the game more simple.

The bad:

Where's my stat customization? Are you telling me that my stats are going to be universally determined by my class, race and background, with only small tweaks? I WANT the added customization of point-buy. I WANT to be able to make characters with bad stats, or REALLY good ones. This seems counter to the promised "more customization".

Furthermore, I absolutely HATE background being tied to mechanical benefits. They did this in 5e and half the time by chosen background was a metagame choice because the one that fit was detrimental to my character build or there just plain wasn't a background that fit my character. 5e did this to facilitate "roleplay" but players who aren't interested in roleplaying aren't going to roleplay, no matter how much you shove it down their throats. Don't make the rest of us suffer because of it.

The ugly:

All small races get a boost to CHA? Why? Did you just run out of places to put bonuses? Maybe you have too many bonuses tied to Ancestries? (See above.)

Ancestry feats all seem HIGHLY situational.

The Exchange

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The halfling is supposed to be the more 'active' of the small races while the gnome is supposed to be the more 'castery'.

So while halflings excel at rogues and mobility based melee and ranged fighting builds, gnomes excel at sorcery and wizardry and the two kind of coexist as being different sorts of bards and clerics.

As it stands now, the goblin just stole all of the halflings stuff, the gnome gets to keep all of his stuff and the halfling is just stuck being worse at both in between the two.

You can hand them the bonus to wisdom which will make them better druids and clerics and rangers but thats not exactly what halflings usually are.

Grand Lodge

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eddv wrote:
Though giving them no modifications to mentals at all and giving them -str, +Dex, +Con would fix that, even if it would feel a bit goofy

I strongly believe that goblins should have -Wis, but that is based on the iconography of the past decade plus. If they make a change in the narrative in support of goblins as PCs, then maybe they lose the "dumb, impulsive" aspect they have that justifies the penalty.

The Concordance

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TwilightKnight wrote:
Hmm wrote:
I am surprised to hear some gnome-hate out there
That's because gnomes are just wanna-be dwarves :-P

“Wanna-be dwarves?! No, we’re not!” Cup says, excitedly, pulling a book from the library to make her point. Then another book. And another one. Oh, why stop there? She runs back and forth eagerly, piling the books in front of Bahb.

“Let’s go way, way back in history, Bahb, to the first world and the land of no consequences.” Cup babbles on excitedly, warming to her subject. It’s quite clear that she has an academic obsession.

Fortunately, the Twilight Knight is a ninja-monk, and escapes a six hour long lecture by dashing an eggshell filled with smoke powder to the floor and leaping out the window. Cup is still lecturing through the smoke as he disappears. “...while *cough* dwarves had the quest for sky and...”

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I personally think the goblin should have penalties to wisdom and strength myself but that doesnt fit into the core rules balance.

Just one more reason to relegate them to the bestiary IMO, but it is what it is.

Grand Lodge

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thflame wrote:
Where's my stat customization? Are you telling me that my stats are going to be universally determined by my class, race and background, with only small tweaks? I WANT the added customization of point-buy. I WANT to be able to make characters with bad stats, or REALLY good ones. This seems counter to the promised "more customization".

It sounds like they will have multiple systems for generating ability scores just like there is now, so I wouldn't worry about it too much. I'm sure there will be an alternative to have more varied scores and if not, just make it up for your game.

Silver Crusade

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Hmm wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Is that Halfling based on Mark Seifter?

That’s why he’s so familiar! And Linda’s the gnome!

Hmm

Annnnnd she’s using a bow to fire mattocks at people. I’ma gonna be waaaaay over here.

Grand Lodge

edduardco wrote:
Stone Dog wrote:
I'm still in favor of halflings getting Wis for their tenacious spirit and gnomes getting intelligence for their keen minds. All small races getting Charisma seems bland
Seconded

Yeah me too, and if only one can change - INT for Gnomes, there is just so much previous on that it needs to stay the same. Tinker gnomes. Illusionist gnomes. etc etc

Grand Lodge

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Cup wrote:
“No, we’re not!”...

Oh I knew that was gonna get you all riled up :-D

Remember, I'm an ol' grognard and back in my day, gnomes were just dwarves with vertical angst. LoL

Grand Lodge

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Rysky wrote:
Hmm wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Is that Halfling based on Mark Seifter?

That’s why he’s so familiar! And Linda’s the gnome!

Hmm

Annnnnd she’s using a bow to fire mattocks at people. I’ma gonna waaaaay over here.

True story: Linda and I were on the same flight back from GenCon. It was me and over twenty Paizo employees. So we sat on the floor, waiting to board the plane, James L. Sutter exclaims, “Look! It’s two gnomes!”

TwilightKnight wrote:
Cup wrote:
“No, we’re not!”...

Oh I knew that was gonna get you all riled up :-D

Remember, I'm an ol' grognard and back in my day, gnomes were just dwarves with vertical angst. LoL

Yep, but that’s why I gave you an escape! Cup can be a determined lecturer!


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TwilightKnight wrote:
Hmm wrote:
I am surprised to hear some gnome-hate out there
That's because gnomes are just wanna-be dwarves :-P

They used to be in older editions. Paizo made them their own thing with The Bleaching. Although you need to be careful with it to keep them from being obnoxious. I suspect a lot of the gnome hate comes from interactions with gnomes that have overdone the 'zaniness'.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Hmm wrote:
However, I will admit that I was hoping to see the Starfinder-esque alternate ancestries of Bleachlings vs Feychildren. The stable bleachling gnome sub-species made for some interesting stories, and allowed some players to play the calm and ultra-intelligent gnomes that they wanted.

This would be part of how you customize your gnome via ancestry options. For instance, grab that floating boost to Int for a bleachling, and a bleachling ancestry feat sure seems like something that will happen at some point!

Also I doubt that the halfling is supposed to be me, though Wayne has certainly seen me when he was at the office sketching...


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thflame wrote:
Where's my stat customization? Are you telling me that my stats are going to be universally determined by my class, race and background, with only small tweaks? I WANT the added customization of point-buy. I WANT to be able to make characters with bad stats, or REALLY good ones. This seems counter to the promised "more customization".

Well the blog does mention having the option to roll ability scores randomly. That tells me there is point buy still in the system. How many points though and how it works is still up in the air.

Silver Crusade

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Still processing the removal of damage difference for Small/Medium weapons.

I don’t think I’m opposed to it, but I hope it’s just for them and that a Small Greatsword and Colossal Greatsword will deal different damage. Otherwise it starts to break the verisimilitude.


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I do look forward to people no longer trying to finagle oversized weapons for extra damage though.


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I'm sure this is going to be the hot topic throughout the weekend.

After the Goblin preview, I was hoping that the Halfling and Gnome previews would reveal some changes to ability scores. High charisma for all of the small races definitely seems bland, particularly when their flavor could support other stats. Goblins with +2 Dex/Int and -2 Wis, Halflings instead getting a Wis bonus, something could stand to be changed in order to differentiate the small races.

Edit: Two thumbs way up for weapon damage sizes being merged!


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Mark Seifter wrote:
Also I doubt that the halfling is supposed to be me, though Wayne has certainly seen me when he was at the office sketching...

At a law school near me, where the entire school is Collegiate Gothic architecture, there are hundreds of gargoyles and other small creatures carved in the pillars, ceilings and roof. There is also a corresponding list of which professors, students, and staff were the models for the gargoyles.

It would be marvelous to have all the iconics be based on a Paizo staff member or major contributor.

The Exchange

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Yeah I think it makes 'sense' for small/medium just because honestly I have never been that wild about the 3.5 rules on that anyway (I would much rather it be the case that a small creature simply cant use a two-handed weapon as was the case back in 3.0)

But I do still strongly think the Large and Larger and Tiny and Smaller versions of weapons should do less damage.

Silver Crusade

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I do look forward to people no longer trying to finagle oversized weapons for extra damage though.

That’s a boon yes.

Paizo Employee Designer

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CrystalSeas wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Also I doubt that the halfling is supposed to be me, though Wayne has certainly seen me when he was at the office sketching...

At a law school near me, where the entire school is Richardsonian Romanesque architecture, there are hundreds of gargoyles and other small creatures carved in the pillars, ceilings and roof. There is also a corresponding list of which professors, students, and staff were the models for the gargoyles.

It would be marvelous to have all the iconics be based on a Paizo staff member or major contributor.

True Story: Linda looks enough like Abrogail Thrune that she cosplays as her sometimes, based on the headshot from Cheliax: Empire of Devils. The full body picture they commissioned for Abrogail later on used a photo of Linda as Abrogail posted on the Paizo blog as an art reference and it looks really similar to Linda now, more so than the original. So now Linda uses that art for her business card.

The Exchange

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PossibleCabbage wrote:
I do look forward to people no longer trying to finagle oversized weapons for extra damage though.

Why? Its honestly one of the least effective ways to even deal extra damage outside of vital strike builds currently outside of using spells specifically designed for this purpose like Lead Blades.

People are still gonna try to wield oversized weapons because thats anime as all get out and we're all various stripes of nerd here.


Rysky wrote:

Still processing the removal of damage difference for Small/Medium weapons.

I don’t think I’m opposed to it, but I hope it’s just for them and that a Small Greatsword and Colossal Greatsword will deal different damage. Otherwise it starts to break the verisimilitude.

What if small creatures just weren't allowed to wield great axes (too unwieldy for them) and had to two-hand battle axes as well?


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If weapon damage is the same for small vs medium do they still use different weapons? Or will a gnome be able to use the same greatsword as the halforc without penalty?

Grand Lodge

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Mark Seifter wrote:
Also I doubt that the halfling is supposed to be me, though Wayne has certainly seen me when he was at the office sketching...

I note you did not deny that Linda’s the gnome, though. I would love to see her cosplay that hat! Maybe Erik Keith could make her one!

Hmm

Paizo Employee Designer

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eddv wrote:
People are still gonna try to wield oversized weapons because thats anime as all get out and we're all various stripes of nerd here.

Also Amiri!


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Mark Seifter wrote:
True Story: Linda looks enough like Abrogail Thrune that she cosplays as her sometimes, based on the headshot from Cheliax: Empire of Devils. The full body picture they commissioned for Abrogail later on used a photo of Linda as Abrogail posted on the Paizo blog as an art reference and it looks really similar to Linda now, more so than the original. So now Linda uses that art for her business card.

You know how authors sometimes auction off "naming rights" for charity fund raising? So if you win, the author works your name into the next novel?

I can totally see Paizo doing the same with art.

Liberty's Edge

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thflame wrote:
Where's my stat customization? Are you telling me that my stats are going to be universally determined by my class, race and background, with only small tweaks? I WANT the added customization of point-buy. I WANT to be able to make characters with bad stats, or REALLY good ones. This seems counter to the promised "more customization".

Well, we have no idea how many floating bonuses there are at each stage. It's very possible that you wind up with more floating bonuses than set ones.

Also...even if some are set, how important is it to be able to have a Cleric with less than, say, 14 Wis? Because that doesn't seem like a real customization option, just the kind of trap build people have been asking for Pathfinder to get rid of.

thflame wrote:
Furthermore, I absolutely HATE background being tied to mechanical benefits. They did this in 5e and half the time by chosen background was a metagame choice because the one that fit was detrimental to my character build or there just plain wasn't a background that fit my character. 5e did this to facilitate "roleplay" but players who aren't interested in roleplaying aren't going to roleplay, no matter how much you shove it down their throats. Don't make the rest of us suffer because of it.

For me it depends on what the bonuses are. +2 to one set stat (and, say, two floating ones) and a Lore don't seem like that big a deal, especially if the Lore is appropriate to the Background (which they would be).


No matter how big my stick is, I will always want a bigger one.

Spoiler:
Heh...


Still seems like being shot of adjustments for Ancestry once and for all would be the way to go...

Grand Lodge

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Mark Seifter wrote:
CrystalSeas wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Also I doubt that the halfling is supposed to be me, though Wayne has certainly seen me when he was at the office sketching...

At a law school near me, where the entire school is Richardsonian Romanesque architecture, there are hundreds of gargoyles and other small creatures carved in the pillars, ceilings and roof. There is also a corresponding list of which professors, students, and staff were the models for the gargoyles.

It would be marvelous to have all the iconics be based on a Paizo staff member or major contributor.

True Story: Linda looks enough like Abrogail Thrune that she cosplays as her sometimes, based on the headshot from Cheliax: Empire of Devils. The full body picture they commissioned for Abrogail later on used a photo of Linda as Abrogail posted on the Paizo blog as an art reference and it looks really similar to Linda now, more so than the original. So now Linda uses that art for her business card.

Photo of Linda as Abrogail Thrune, from PaizoCon.

The 50-year old woman with her is me. I guess you can see how people might recognize me from my avatar. We look nothing alike, but the expression is eerily similar.

Hmm

Grand Lodge

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eddv wrote:
People are still gonna try to wield oversized weapons because thats anime as all get out and we're all various stripes of nerd here.

I think that's part of the reason for the change. Now, PCs can do the Final Fantasy thing without the game mechanics making GMs object. It "feels" like the rule of cool is being applied more to 2E than 1E. Less about everything trying to make logic sense in a world of magic, gods, etc. Let players be more imaginative without having to jump through hoops to make the game mechanics work. IMO that's a good idea.


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Let's be real the only thing small damage dice did was make it so if you played a gnome/halfing you couldn't use 90% of the gear that dropped.

"You find a +2 flaming burst warhammer."

"Awesome! I want it!"

"Well... It's medium sized."

And then you have go through whether or not your GM allows resizing rules for weapons/armor and whether or not those rules are actually any good. "Sure you can resize it, but it's going to cost just as much as buying one sized for you so there's no real point in you keeping this one."

It's less work for the GM than having to remember to either make house rules, or remembering to consistently throw your small sized PC's some bones with the otherwise overwhelmingly medium as standard loot tables, especially if you run modules/APs.

Paizo Employee Designer

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Deadmanwalking wrote:

Also...even if some are set, how important is it to be able to have a Cleric with less than, say, 14 Wis? Because that doesn't seem like a real customization option, just the kind of trap build people have been asking for Pathfinder to get rid of.

If you are absolutely dead-set on doing it, you could play a cleric with 10 Wisdom without using the rolling method. I really would not recommend this to anyone, though it's less devastating than doing it in PF1 would be; you could certainly still be a contributing member of the party, but man, you spells...

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
thflame wrote:
Where's my stat customization? Are you telling me that my stats are going to be universally determined by my class, race and background, with only small tweaks? I WANT the added customization of point-buy. I WANT to be able to make characters with bad stats, or REALLY good ones. This seems counter to the promised "more customization".
Well, we have no idea how many floating bonuses there are at each stage. It's very possible that you wind up with more floating bonuses than set ones.

Also, what if there are ancestry options, some kind of variant rules, that let you shed the basic ability adjustments in favor or something else? Sort of like how aasimar have the source bloodlines that alter their standard ability adjustments. We might have to wait for the Advanced Ancestry Guide, but its certainly doable.

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TwilightKnight wrote:
eddv wrote:
People are still gonna try to wield oversized weapons because thats anime as all get out and we're all various stripes of nerd here.
I think that's part of the reason for the change. Now, PCs can do the Final Fantasy thing without the game mechanics making GMs object. It "feels" like the rule of cool is being applied more to 2E than 1E. Less about everything trying to make logic sense in a world of magic, gods, etc. Let players be more imaginative without having to jump through hoops to make the game mechanics work. IMO that's a good idea.

I think its a good idea too, I just think that if a Greatsword sized for a giant that I have dedicated a lot of my training to be able to use does the same damage as just a regular Greatsword that it kind of takes something away.

That's my main reason for hoping that there is still SOME way of doing oversized weapons without it just being a skin thing....and I think Mark just hinted that there is, so that's cool.

That said, I do wonder if there is still some advantage to being small.

So far it sounds like you lose movement speed and hit points no matter what, so I am anxious to see what is offsetting that, if anything. Usually I would assume it was coming in the form of stronger base ancestry traits, but those don't seem to exist anymore.


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To be honest I'm more that perfectly happy to trade away increases in damage die for larger sizes if this means that Paizo is more willing to include Large sized PC races like they do in Starfinder.

I just want to be tall. Let me be a tall Gnoll. Or a Minotaur. Or both, both is good.

Liberty's Edge

Mark Seifter wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:

Also...even if some are set, how important is it to be able to have a Cleric with less than, say, 14 Wis? Because that doesn't seem like a real customization option, just the kind of trap build people have been asking for Pathfinder to get rid of.

If you are absolutely dead-set on doing it, you could play a cleric with 10 Wisdom without using the rolling method. I really would not recommend this to anyone, though it's less devastating than doing it in PF1 would be; you could certainly still be a contributing member of the party, but man, you spells...

Interesting. I'm now betting you'd need to be a Wis penalty Ancestry to do this, but I'm really interested in seeing how it all works out in the full Ability Generation system.

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I thought id read somewhere there would be no half elves or half orcs.


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To be honest, I liked some of the aspects of AD&D with weapons. To a halfling or gnome, a dagger is akin to a short sword, a short sword similar to a long sword, and a long sword more like a bastard sword. The weapons were the same, but smaller races would use these weapons differently due to their own size differences.

Similarly, some of the smaller giants might very well use a human greatsword as a short sword or dagger. Sure, they could make their own weapons and some (like the Frost or Fire Giants) will. But others will scavenge what is available during raids.


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eddv wrote:
People are still gonna try to wield oversized weapons because thats anime as all get out and we're all various stripes of nerd here.

I have no problem with "people are doing a ridiculous thing because they think it's cool for whatever reason" it's the "doing a ridiculous thing because it gives you a tiny numerical bonus" that I find grating. If you're not doing it for the extra damage, feel free to carry around a greatsword as tall as a house, whatever.

Liberty's Edge

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Cat-thulhu wrote:
I thought id read somewhere there would be no half elves or half orcs.

No. Some people have suggested this as a change they could make, but it's not one they have made as of yet.

Nor do I, for one, really want them to.


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Like others I'm not a big fan of all 3 small races getting a CHA boost.

Am I reading the section on ability boosts correctly? The ability boost will be applied before stats are assigned? So a Halfling will start with 12 DEX instead of 10 and then the point buy will go from there?


Ampersandrew wrote:

Interesting start for stat generation. Waiting the full info on what else gives boosts during character creation. I kind of feel we didn't learn much, but then I don't play either of these races much. I was much more excited about the elven ancestry.

It's nice to see small characters getting normal damage.

Yeah I’m interested to see what happens with all the size bonuses. Is pf2 going the same way as Starfinder went?

Paizo Employee Designer

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eddv wrote:
TwilightKnight wrote:
eddv wrote:
People are still gonna try to wield oversized weapons because thats anime as all get out and we're all various stripes of nerd here.
I think that's part of the reason for the change. Now, PCs can do the Final Fantasy thing without the game mechanics making GMs object. It "feels" like the rule of cool is being applied more to 2E than 1E. Less about everything trying to make logic sense in a world of magic, gods, etc. Let players be more imaginative without having to jump through hoops to make the game mechanics work. IMO that's a good idea.

I think its a good idea too, I just think that if a Greatsword sized for a giant that I have dedicated a lot of my training to be able to use does the same damage as just a regular Greatsword that it kind of takes something away.

That's my main reason for hoping that there is still SOME way of doing oversized weapons without it just being a skin thing....and I think Mark just hinted that there is, so that's cool.

This is really a tangent that might deserve its own thread by now. But it's definitely refreshing to be able to grant cool benefits that aren't married to a damage increase chart that gives a linear +1 expected damage for a while (d4, d6, d8) and then bumps and to 2d6 and starts increasing exponentially from there (increasing roughly by a rounded version of multiplying by 2^(x/2) where x is the number of size increases beyond when you hit 2d6), such that anything you tried to balance for the exponential version would be weaksauce if you were stuck in the linear part and anything you designed assuming the linear part would be overpowered for the exponential.

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