The Changing Lore Warden

Wednesday, October 4, 2017

The Additional Resources for Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Adventurer's Guide notes that any material that changed when it appeared in this book (and underwent several additional rounds of development) would be the default version once the book's contents appear on the Pathfinder Reference Document. Until then, we've let both versions remain legal, for we're not going to institute a change that requires someone to buy another book to use a previously legal character. When we made that Additional Resources update, we expected the PRD would appear soon afterward. It's looking like it will be a while yet before it shows up, and consternation about one of the archetypes in particular—the lore warden—has been building enough that we're resolving it today.

Officially Updated: The Adventurer's Guide version of the lore warden becomes the sole version used in Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild on October 18, 2017. Aim to update your characters using the allowances below before the next time you play a character with fighter (lore warden) levels. This change doesn't become binding for two weeks, which allows you some time to make adjustments and doesn't require you to perform any modifications before your imminent game or convention.

Full Rebuild: If your character had one or more levels of lore warden on or before August 11th, 2017, you can freely rebuild your character as you like. That includes changing up basically anything about the character except the Chronicle sheets you've assigned to them.

Partial Rebuild: If your character took their first level of fighter (lore warden) or otherwise retrained into the lore warden archetype after August 11, 2017 but before October 4, 2017, you can freely rebuild these recently-acquired fighter (lore warden) levels and any other levels taken since; this includes any other character choices you've made since then, such as feats, spells known, recent purchases, and the like. If you adopted the archetype after this date through retraining, you may freely retrain the archetype—removing it entirely or replacing it with one or more other fighter archetypes.

Resources: Both the Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Pathfinder Society Field Guild and Adventurer's Guide are legal sources for the lore warden. If you own the former, simply use the updated text from the Adventurer's Guide, reprinted below.

Lore Warden (Fighter Archetype)

Quick wits and deceptive techniques can often succeed where brute force might not. A lore warden is the consummate warrior-scholar of the Pathfinder Society, outsmarting her competition even when locking blades with powerful foes. Outside of combat, a lore warden's extensive education also helps her document the past and survive great danger.

Scholastic (Ex): A lore warden gains 2 additional skill ranks each level. These ranks must be spent on Intelligence- based skills. All Craft and Knowledge skills are class skills for lore wardens, as are Linguistics and Spellcraft.

This ability replaces the fighter's proficiency with medium armor, heavy armor, and shields.

Skill Over Strength (Ex): At 2nd level, a lore warden qualifies for feats and other abilities as though she had the Combat Expertise feat. At 6th level, she gains Combat Expertise as a bonus feat, even if she would not normally qualify for the feat. If she already has Combat Expertise, she instead gains any one combat feat that includes Combat Expertise as a prerequisite (and for which she otherwise qualifies). At 10th level, she can treat her base attack bonus as though it were 2 higher for the purpose of calculating the effects of Combat Expertise.

This ability replaces bravery and the fighter bonus feat gained at 2nd level.

Swords Secret (Ex): A lore warden learns specialized techniques that help her to quickly analyze and defeat her foes. At 3rd level, a lore warden gains one swords secret, and she gains an additional swords secret for every 4 fighter levels gained after 3rd. Except where noted, a lore warden cannot select the same swords secret more than once.

Exploit Weakness (Ex): The lore warden adds one-third her class level on attack rolls to confirm critical hits. At 11th level, whenever she confirms a critical hit, her weapon attacks ignore the first 5 points of damage reduction or hardness the target has until the end of her next turn. At 19th level, the lore warden can automatically confirm a critical hit once per round when she threatens a critical hit.

Hair's Breadth (Ex): Once per day when subject to a critical hit, the lore warden can attempt an Acrobatics check to reduce the damage as an immediate action. If the result of this Acrobatics check is greater than the opponent's confirmation roll, she negates the critical hit; the attack still hits and deals normal damage. The lore warden must be at least 11th level to select this swords secret. At 15th level she can use this secret one additional time per day.

Know Thy Enemy (Ex): When the lore warden succeeds at a Knowledge check to identify a creature's abilities and weaknesses, she can also use a standard action to grant herself a +2 insight bonus on all attack and weapon damage rolls made against that enemy. This bonus lasts for a number of rounds equal to half her class level (minimum 2 rounds), or until the lore warden uses this ability against a different creature. At 11th level, she also gains a +2 bonus to her AC against the creature when using this ability. At 19th level, the insight bonus increases to +3.

Maneuver Training (Ex): The lore warden gains a brawler's maneuver training class feature, treating her fighter level as her brawler level.

Swift Assessment (Ex): The lore warden can now use her know thy enemy swords secret as a move action. At 15th level, she can use this ability as a swift action. She must have the know thy enemy swords secret before choosing this swords secret.

This replaces armor training and armor mastery.

The enlightened bloodrager and Qadiran horselord archetypes are receiving the same treatment with two exceptions: we're not reprinting the updated archetype text here (it will still await the PRD update), and the date by which any updates need to happen will be based on when the PRD's updated. The cut-off dates for partial and full rebuilds will be the same, however, as will the legality of the respective previous sources for these archetypes. If you would like to perform those rebuilds for characters with those archetypes now, you're welcome to do so.

John Compton
Organized Play Lead Developer

More Paizo Blog.
Tags: Organized Play Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild
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Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

I agree Avenger vigilante is probably the straightest conversion for a lot of lore wardens... there are probably a few other good options though. Swashbuckler comes to mind.

Weirdly, my two lore wardens are basically unaffected. I've only ever used the class for a one-level dip with a feat and a few extra skill points so far.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

6 people marked this as a favorite.
BigNorseWolf wrote:
So what do we call an out of the cave vigilantee? Tony starking it? Stark naked?

A Pathfinder.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Agent, Florida—Ocala aka Knight of Rust

Just wanted to make sure before I continued; with the full rebuild does that mean you get back all of the gold you spent (minus that spent on consumables, I imagine), gain back prestige spent, and change everything about your character, leaving what is essentially a level # blank slate with chronicle sheets attached as if it were some kind of GM baby you've never played.

If that's wrong, that's fine, that's why I asked.

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Think of the 1st Level Rebuild.

It's that, but any Level.

Rebuilding wrote:
Rebuilding: The process of replacing one or more of your character features as directed by campaign rules, typically without cost. The most common type of rebuilding is a 1st-level character rebuild, which you may do freely anytime before playing an adventure at 2nd level or higher.

Grand Lodge ***** Venture-Captain, Arizona—Phoenix aka TriOmegaZero

So no regaining prestige.

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Correct.

The Exchange ***** RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16

And if your character spent gold on consumables or spellcasting, such as raise dead, no recouping that, either.

Paizo Employee ***** Organized Play Lead Developer

8 people marked this as a favorite.

It's basically everything except expended Prestige Points, as a few others noted.

As for whether someone who spent Prestige Points recently (as asked earlier) to retrain out of lore warden would regain said Prestige Points, the jury's out but leaning toward yes. I just want to make sure I'm getting feedback from all of my colleagues (several out of the office this week) before locking anything in on that front.

***

shaventalz wrote:
MadScientistWorking wrote:
shaventalz wrote:
GM Lamplighter wrote:
Thanks for the official update, and thanks for bumping this one up early. Hopefully a lot of discussions can be laid to rest now.

Agreed. While I would have greatly preferred grandfathering, I can work with a full rebuild.

GM Lamplighter wrote:
EDIT: I'm keeping my Lore Warden levels - the extra skill points were the main thrust for me anyway.
Then might I suggest Avenger Vigilante? It gets combat feats every even level (same as a fighter, excluding that one at 1st), more skill points (without needing to dip into advanced weapon training), and better proficiencies. On top of that, it gets actual class abilities, and ones you can use out of combat even!
Depending on your choices and if you don't care about feats Alchemist and Investigators were always a better option mechanically.
Feats and BAB. Avenger Vigilantes still get full BAB, which affects not only their to-hit but when they get their iteratives. Plus, some options require "Fighter level X" or "BAB +X", which Alchemists and Investigators lose out on.

True but their passives scale and outpace BAB progression by a large fraction. I forgot Avenger Vigilantes could do that though to a much limited extent making them weirdly much more viable for maneuvers than original Lorewarden even.

Sovereign Court *** Venture-Agent, Florida—Ocala aka Knight of Rust

Alrighty, I was asking about Prestige because this character had retrained previously, but not Lore Warden levels.

Thanks!

Liberty's Edge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I didn't do any equipment changes myself. The rebuild was similar enough in what he'd use that all the same equipment still made sense. This saves me from having to figure out how much gold was spent on stuff during adventures and on expendibles, which you aren't supposed to be able to refund.

I guess it's tempting to sell some stuff back at full price... but I don't think I need it.

Re: zero disadvantage to having your Vigilante identity discovered, it depends on context. For my character, no, and for others who are Stark Naked, no. However, you can easily visualize circumstances where the Vigilante identity is undercover, and potentially a very different alignment. You don't want your social identity being blamed for the antisocial things your Vigiliante identity does.

In PFS, here's a possibility: many of us hide our Pathfinder affiliation, because we've learned that there are lots of scenarios where it's a distinct disadvantage to reveal that you're a Pathfinder, and the VC doesn't always warn you of this. (I have to admit this makes me a little sad, because a fair amount of the fiction suggests that, while there are enemies, in general there's some prestige in being a Pathfinder, so advertising it might actually be nice.) With a Vigilante, you can have the best of both worlds. Your Social identity can be an "out" Pathfinder, tooling around and flashing your Wayfinder to open doors and loosen lips. Your Vigilante identity can be fully undercover... and nobody has to know that he's associated with that Social Pathfinder.


rknop wrote:
In PFS, here's a possibility: many of us hide our Pathfinder affiliation, because we've learned that there are lots of scenarios where it's a distinct disadvantage to reveal that you're a Pathfinder, and the VC doesn't always warn you of this. (I have to admit this makes me a little sad, because a fair amount of the fiction suggests that, while there are enemies, in general there's some prestige in being a Pathfinder, so advertising it might actually be nice.) With a Vigilante, you can have the best of both worlds. Your Social identity can be an "out" Pathfinder, tooling around and flashing your Wayfinder to open doors and loosen lips. Your Vigilante identity can be fully undercover... and nobody has to know that he's associated with that Social Pathfinder.

Off-topic, but I kind of like the idea of doing ti the other way round: the vigilante being openly a pathfinder, and the social identity being "totally not a pathfinder". Mind you, I like the idea of the social identity being the one who wears a mask, so maybe I'm doing this wrong.

Dark Archive *

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Does prompt the question, though.

Could one have their 'undercover' alias be an Aspis Consortium (or other badness) agent?

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules, Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild, Tales Subscriber; Pathfinder Comics Subscriber
Wei Ji the Learner wrote:


Does prompt the question, though.

Could one have their 'undercover' alias be an Aspis Consortium (or other badness) agent?

Faceless Enforcer says hello.

Liberty's Edge *** Venture-Agent, Malaysia—Kuala Lumpur aka Batpony

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Like most folks here, mixed feelings about the outcome but still gladly appreciative that it was handled in a very fair manner for everyone.

What I appreciate the most is being able to rely on my field guide to be able to use the new lore warden. Although PF is relatively inexpensive in the US, for someone in an Asian country who has very unfavourable exchange rates I think long and hard about what I want to buy. So it gladdens me not to need to fish out extra cash.

Just to give an idea, our minimum wage is an equivalent to USD 2/hour.

**** Venture-Captain, Georgia—Savannah

GM PDK wrote:
Amanda Plageman wrote:
Now to see if there's any way to salvage who my poor LW was as a person and a character....
Swashbuckler fits the style, if not the skill points... AND the skill points! :P

Uhm... no. A Paladin would fit who my LW was better than a Swashbuckler. And a Paladin wouldn't fit at all. :-)

Scarab Sages *****

Check and see if there is a holy swashbuckler archetype

***

Amanda Plageman wrote:
GM PDK wrote:
Amanda Plageman wrote:
Now to see if there's any way to salvage who my poor LW was as a person and a character....
Swashbuckler fits the style, if not the skill points... AND the skill points! :P
Uhm... no. A Paladin would fit who my LW was better than a Swashbuckler. And a Paladin wouldn't fit at all. :-)

Is your LW more righteous or daring? the Virtuous Bravo could fit a light armored LG type better than other alternatives. Plus you're now decent in a battle! :)

Shadow Lodge *****

Virtuous bravo is banhammered (probably for being a better swashbuckler than the swashbuckler)

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Yeah that's why I made a Virtuous Bravo for an AP ^_^

Silver Crusade **** Venture-Lieutenant, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh aka Terminalmancer

BigNorseWolf wrote:
Virtuous bravo is banhammered (probably for being a better swashbuckler than the swashbuckler)

The test seems to be:

1. Does it have Opportune Parry and Riposte?
2. Is it a swashbuckler?
3. If 1 is true and 2 is false then restrict availability or remove OP&R from the option.

I think there might have been one option floating around somewhere that kept it and is still PFS legal but just about everything that has OP&R that's not a swashbuckler has been either restricted or errata'd in some way.

Shadow Lodge *****

Well, the idea is "Is an archetype that turns you into an Xlike Y better than X ? If so, ban-hammered and with good reason. The Swashbuckly paladin should not be a better swashbuckler than the swashbuckler.. but it is. If that also boils down to opportune parry and riposte... then that's really a big chunk of what the class has going for it then isnt it?

**** Venture-Agent, Massachusetts—Boston Metro aka Zoomba

Given the large amount of characters I've seen that take one level of swashbuckler, then every other level as a something else, I'm inclined to think the issue might be more on the swashbuckler's end myself. At least the Bravo requires 4 levels before getting OPR.

On topic, while I don't have a Lore Warden character (and agree with Lau and other' thoughts that while i like the the former version far more because it had a nice, neither really mechanically hits the intended flavor well) I have great respect for the way in which the PFS team handled this change given what they were given by the design team.

***** Venture-Lieutenant, Spain—Madrid

PP expended in now unwanted vanities are not recovered either?

Shadow Lodge *****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Miguel Madrid del Ama wrote:
PP expended in now unwanted vanities are not recovered either?

I think they're recoverable as long as they weren't an expense: like a body recovery, race, or hire an expert.

Liberty's Edge ** Venture-Agent, Online

Terminalmancer wrote:


I think there might have been one option floating around somewhere that kept it and is still PFS legal but just about everything that has OP&R that's not a swashbuckler has been either restricted or errata'd in some way.

Magus arcana, flamboyant arcana is legal and still works.

Sczarni *****

13 people marked this as a favorite.
Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Earlier up thread I wrote:

I realized that there's zero drawback to having your Vigilante Identity discovered.

I'll use this whole OOC Rebuild as an IC "unmasking".

I determined my Vigilante Identity:

The "Lore Warden".

*

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Nefreet wrote:
Earlier up thread I wrote:

I realized that there's zero drawback to having your Vigilante Identity discovered.

I'll use this whole OOC Rebuild as an IC "unmasking".

I determined my Vigilante Identity:

The "Lore Warden".

Remember that if anyone suspects you are not, in fact, Lore Warden... seamless guise gives you a +20 circumstance bonus to appear as your current identity.

Sovereign Court ** Venture-Lieutenant, Georgia—Savannah aka KitsuneWarlock

I actually kind of enjoy looking for a more appropriate archetype for my character.

Spoiler:
The only thing this really does to my Lore Warden is shifting my "build capstone" from level 7 to level 8* and give her Dirty Fighting instead of Combat Expertise. Honestly, she never really played like a Lore Warden in terms of flavor and I did feel a little guilty about using the archetype just for the feat (and skill points).

This does also give me an opportunity to realign her stats. She doesn't really need Int anymore and she only needed Dex for levels 1-5 since she can pretty soon afford a Belt of Giant Hurling +4.

*After a build has all the feats (and class levels) required to do what it needs to do without being a burden to the party, I shift my focus over to stuff "I've always wanted to do" and pick up "fun feats".

Shadow Lodge *****

A pity that Dirty Fighting doesn't actually gain my rogue anything. :/

The Exchange ****

I'm not entirely happy with the change mostly from the 'don't want to rebuild' POV.

Did it for UC Rogue.. and though it came out better.. I HATED the 'does this work to my build' or 'THIS works maybe?'

Now I'm trying to find a two weapon fighting build with expertise for the 'big fights' that I can use.

Swashbuckler noticeably does NOT work. I might be the only person I know who uses CE as a rogue/fighter type on a regular basis but there are times when you NEED the AC in light armor.

But since I play Akim like once a blue moon (on 1/2 xp) because I want to be the suave know it all rogue who is good with two blades and able to find traps and locks like no other..

I have time to find something that works for me.

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

Akim the Crafty wrote:

I'm not entirely happy with the change mostly from the 'don't want to rebuild' POV.

Did it for UC Rogue.. and though it came out better.. I HATED the 'does this work to my build' or 'THIS works maybe?'

Now I'm trying to find a two weapon fighting build with expertise for the 'big fights' that I can use.

Swashbuckler noticeably does NOT work. I might be the only person I know who uses CE as a rogue/fighter type on a regular basis but there are times when you NEED the AC in light armor.

But since I play Akim like once a blue moon (on 1/2 xp) because I want to be the suave know it all rogue who is good with two blades and able to find traps and locks like no other..

I have time to find something that works for me.

Nowadays there are several ways to make 2WF work. Some might fit your flavor.

Investigators' Studied Combat applies to all attacks, not just your main hand, and scales quite nicely. It's also a class that flavor-wise could be a Lore Warden who likes potions more than combat maneuvers, but is otherwise a smart warrior.

Rangers and Slayers do strength-based 2WF well, using their combat style to circumvent the high-dexterity feat prerequisites. The pregen Slayer is a good example of how straightforward yet effective such a build can be. I think it might also be interesting to build as a Dandy ranger.

Archeologist Bards can also boost their multi-weapon arsenal with Luck or with Arcane Strike.

(Urban) Bloodrager (Arcane) needs a bit more help to get going as a 2WF but it's doable, and is pretty fierce at harassing casters in melee.

Shadow Lodge *****

Akim the Crafty wrote:

I'm not entirely happy with the change mostly from the 'don't want to rebuild' POV.

Did it for UC Rogue.. and though it came out better.. I HATED the 'does this work to my build' or 'THIS works maybe?'

Now I'm trying to find a two weapon fighting build with expertise for the 'big fights' that I can use.

Swashbuckler noticeably does NOT work. I might be the only person I know who uses CE as a rogue/fighter type on a regular basis but there are times when you NEED the AC in light armor.

But since I play Akim like once a blue moon (on 1/2 xp) because I want to be the suave know it all rogue who is good with two blades and able to find traps and locks like no other..

I have time to find something that works for me.

Im in this boat with 4 PC's .. and 2 of them are 14+

I have a Ninja, Monk, Ranger build that I am weighing the option Full UC Rogue or dumping the Monk and adding 4 Ninja Levels

I have a Whip Magus that Im at a loss on what to do with

I have an inquisitor of Achaekek who's story I love that I have no clue on

and finally a staff magus / Card Caster that may just end up just dropping the lore warden archtype

The Exchange ****

Lau Bannenberg wrote:
Akim the Crafty wrote:

I'm not entirely happy with the change mostly from the 'don't want to rebuild' POV.

Did it for UC Rogue.. and though it came out better.. I HATED the 'does this work to my build' or 'THIS works maybe?'

Now I'm trying to find a two weapon fighting build with expertise for the 'big fights' that I can use.

Swashbuckler noticeably does NOT work. I might be the only person I know who uses CE as a rogue/fighter type on a regular basis but there are times when you NEED the AC in light armor.

But since I play Akim like once a blue moon (on 1/2 xp) because I want to be the suave know it all rogue who is good with two blades and able to find traps and locks like no other..

I have time to find something that works for me.

Nowadays there are several ways to make 2WF work. Some might fit your flavor.

Investigators' Studied Combat applies to all attacks, not just your main hand, and scales quite nicely. It's also a class that flavor-wise could be a Lore Warden who likes potions more than combat maneuvers, but is otherwise a smart warrior.

Rangers and Slayers do strength-based 2WF well, using their combat style to circumvent the high-dexterity feat prerequisites. The pregen Slayer is a good example of how straightforward yet effective such a build can be. I think it might also be interesting to build as a Dandy ranger.

Archeologist Bards can also boost their multi-weapon arsenal with Luck or with Arcane Strike.

(Urban) Bloodrager (Arcane) needs a bit more help to get going as a 2WF but it's doable, and is pretty fierce at harassing casters in melee.

Thing is it’s trcky to be a tw feinting character, my role is set up guy. Slayer doesn’t almost as well. I gain skill points, but lose a bunch of class skills and have to toss a skill focus to keeper Greater/TW Feint. With studied target im better by a point but I’m not the know it all locksmith I liked playing. I had planned to go 2:1 Rogue\ Lore Warden but now I got nothing to do the same with Slayer

*****

Snakebite Striker archetype for brawler does cool stuff for feinting + sneak attack and is compatible with 2WF.

It also lets you feint and move.

The 2WF can be done with a single weapon.

No requirement for dex or int.

Sczarni *****

2 people marked this as a favorite.
Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Since my Lore Warden was Dex-based, but still needed a 13 Str for Power Attack, the Vigilante Talent "Shield of Blades" allowed me transfer those 3 attribute points elsewhere to great effect ^_^

I think I'm happy with my Rebuild. Thanks again to the PFS team for working with the Community. I look forward to testing him out at the next Con.

Grand Lodge **

3 people marked this as a favorite.

I've been out of the loop and too busy with real life (and SFS) to keep up on this. I signed up for a game tomorrow and decided to see if there was ever anything more said about it. Now it comes out that not only has the decision remained the same, but now the first deadline has moved up. All I've got left to say is that I'm greatly saddened by this decision and I'm really disappointed with the direction the campaign leadership has decided to go. The only bright side here is that there's officially a full rebuild.

Sovereign Court **** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden aka Ascalaphus

3 people marked this as a favorite.

The decision to use the new lorewarden wasn't going to change, but you got a full rebuild (presumably, if you've been out of the loop for a long time).

The real deadline is 18th of october. That's when you have to be converted. Until then you "should" but it's not binding. So your game tomorrow is not in jeopardy.

The other "deadlines" aren't deadlines at all, because they're located at or before the publication of the blog. Rather, they're cutoff points for handling people who took lorewarden levels before or after Adventurer's Guide got published. (They separate people who became lorewardens long ago, from people who took lorewarden levels when it was already foreseeable that the official lorewarden was going to change, but before the blog settled the uncertainty.)

The Exchange ****

Pirate Rob wrote:

Snakebite Striker archetype for brawler does cool stuff for feinting + sneak attack and is compatible with 2WF.

It also lets you feint and move.

The 2WF can be done with a single weapon.

No requirement for dex or int.

Might be the best option, I lose (at least) one feat any way I go.

Might have to try a few builds to see how it works

*****

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Akim the Crafty wrote:
Pirate Rob wrote:

Snakebite Striker archetype for brawler does cool stuff for feinting + sneak attack and is compatible with 2WF.

It also lets you feint and move.

The 2WF can be done with a single weapon.

No requirement for dex or int.

Might be the best option, I lose (at least) one feat any way I go.

Might have to try a few builds to see how it works

I hope you find something awesome for you.

Also, why the heck don't I have a snakebite striker? My description makes them sound awesome.

Grand Lodge *

So with the total rebuild could you add a race boon? I have a ratfolk build I want to make and it doesn't come online until about 5th level; my lore warden I am rebuilding is at level 4.

Sczarni *****

Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Yes.

Same goes for feats that can only be taken at level 1.

Rebuilding > Retraining

Grand Lodge *

Nefreet wrote:

Yes.

Same goes for feats that can only be taken at level 1.

Rebuilding > Retraining

Fantastic, that's what I was hoping to hear.

Grand Lodge *

Finally getting around to rebuilding my Lore Warden. Basically all my Lore Warden levels are going Avenger Vigilante, and my one level of Crusader Cleric of Calistria is changing to Warpriest of Calistria. Switching to focus more on Dex, was somewhat balanced Dex/Str but with the Vigilante talent Lethal Grace going Dex has much better benefits. Most of my equipment is even remaining the same, only equipment changes are I'm changing from a Mithril Breastplate to a Mithril Kikko and selling back some unused equipment. After all changes I might have one lower bonus on my trip attempts than before, which is compensated by new equipment purchases. (I had over 80k gold saved up, this is a level 14 character.)

Overall, like others have said, Avenger Vigilante is a good replacement for those Lore Warden levels. (I actually have MORE skill points than I did before, but less HP.)

The Exchange ****

Drake Brimstone wrote:

Finally getting around to rebuilding my Lore Warden. Basically all my Lore Warden levels are going Avenger Vigilante, and my one level of Crusader Cleric of Calistria is changing to Warpriest of Calistria. Switching to focus more on Dex, was somewhat balanced Dex/Str but with the Vigilante talent Lethal Grace going Dex has much better benefits. Most of my equipment is even remaining the same, only equipment changes are I'm changing from a Mithril Breastplate to a Mithril Kikko and selling back some unused equipment. After all changes I might have one lower bonus on my trip attempts than before, which is compensated by new equipment purchases. (I had over 80k gold saved up, this is a level 14 character.)

Overall, like others have said, Avenger Vigilante is a good replacement for those Lore Warden levels. (I actually have MORE skill points than I did before, but less HP.)

I rebuilt my Lore Warden/Rogue into a Poisoner Rogue/Alchemist..not as useful when poison isn’t useful but fun all the same

Dark Archive *

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I rebuilt from Oracle(Dragon Mystery)/Lore Warden to Spirit Guide (Dragon Mystery)/Brawler.

So far, it seems pretty sound for what I was aiming for, and is actually more flexible via Martial Flexibility than the original Lore Warden build was.

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