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*In the vesk art, the mechanic is female and the soldier is male. Vesk females have bright colors, while the males are more drab (hence his need to show off those abs, presumably). They have similar body shapes because that's true of a lot of reptiles, and because we all swore a blood oath at the beginning of this game that there would be no lizard-breasts in Starfinder.(To paraphrase the Trix commercials: Silly artists, mammary glands are for *mammals*!)
You KNOW that design teams are serious when they take steps like this to maintain the integrity of their product! Already fav'd but someone else hit that for me, too, please!
They have similar body shapes because that's true of a lot of reptiles, and because we all swore a blood oath at the beginning of this game that there would be no lizard-breasts in Starfinder.
WOOOT!
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I do like the details about the vesk, though, it's always frustrated me that so many fantasy races adhere to traditional human norms when it comes to biological sex when nature does so many interesting things with the subject. Though I suspect there will be no three to five gendered races in the Starfinder Core Rulebook...
That would be difficult to appropriately translate using Earth languages at the game table ;-)
Except basically the entire mission statement Golarion was based on was taking well-known tropes and making them original.Except they were saying the two new races would be something different and new. So it's disappointing that the first one revealed is a Lizardfolk with less swimming prowess.
The other race does seem to fit the "something different and new" description though.
While there are reptilian races available for play in Pathfinder, none of them receive anywhere close to the attention of even many of the other minor races, with possible exception of the Kobolds (which these guys look and sound pretty distinct from). To get a Lizard as a core race is different and new for the Pathfinder ruleset and lore.
Let us not pass judgement without all the information.
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A couple of quick notes:
*Yes, there will be a bunch of really out-there races for Starfinder, just not as the core races. In a new game like this, where we need to appeal to a really wide audience, we didn't feel like we could count on enough folks wanting to play a 10-legged crab or a giant floating brain to safely make them core. (It's the same reason why all of Pathfinder's core races are fairly standard humanoid fantasy tropes, rather than proteans and grodairs.) That said, *I'm* the sort of person who always wants to play the weird race, so you can rest assured that you'll get a bunch of those soon!
*In the vesk art, the mechanic is female and the soldier is male. Vesk females have bright colors, while the males are more drab (hence his need to show off those abs, presumably). They have similar body shapes because that's true of a lot of reptiles, and because we all swore a blood oath at the beginning of this game that there would be no lizard-breasts in Starfinder.
(To paraphrase the Trix commercials: Silly artists, mammary glands are for *mammals*!)
I can imagine some cultural misunderstandings where vesk unfamiliar with other humanoid people assume things based on how brightly colored other species are. Or maybe how brightly they dress.
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A couple of quick notes:
*Yes, there will be a bunch of really out-there races for Starfinder, just not as the core races. In a new game like this, where we need to appeal to a really wide audience, we didn't feel like we could count on enough folks wanting to play a 10-legged crab or a giant floating brain to safely make them core. (It's the same reason why all of Pathfinder's core races are fairly standard humanoid fantasy tropes, rather than proteans and grodairs.) That said, *I'm* the sort of person who always wants to play the weird race, so you can rest assured that you'll get a bunch of those soon!
*In the vesk art, the mechanic is female and the soldier is male. Vesk females have bright colors, while the males are more drab (hence his need to show off those abs, presumably). They have similar body shapes because that's true of a lot of reptiles, and because we all swore a blood oath at the beginning of this game that there would be no lizard-breasts in Starfinder.
(To paraphrase the Trix commercials: Silly artists, mammary glands are for *mammals*!)
The world thanks you for anatomically feasible alien lizards. Also, the description mentions other races under the control of the vesk. Have some of these races been encountered in or have counterparts in the golarion system, pre-gap?
Me piache!
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I... am just going to go giggle in the corner about the name.
(Vesk doesn't mean anything in Finnish, but conjugation is a thing in Finnish, "veski" is a colloquialism for bathroom, and "veska" is another for handbag. Puns will abound.)
I hope no one creates a character whose name, however spelled, sounds like Flush Gordon or Flush Toilet. ;)
Oh nice. I've always liked Trandoshans.
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Though I suspect there will be no three to five gendered races in the Starfinder Core Rulebook...
False. :D
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I hope no one creates a character whose name, however spelled, sounds like Flush Gordon or Flush Toilet. ;)I... am just going to go giggle in the corner about the name.
(Vesk doesn't mean anything in Finnish, but conjugation is a thing in Finnish, "veski" is a colloquialism for bathroom, and "veska" is another for handbag. Puns will abound.)
FLUSH...AHHHHHHH
...I think I need to make this character now. A custodial engineer.
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Glad to see the color based sexual dimorphism. Non-mammals with mammaries are a bit of a peeve of mine, and it's always nice to see more ways of distinction between the sexes (including none at all)
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Glad to see the color based sexual dimorphism. Non-mammals with mammaries are a bit of a peeve of mine, and it's always nice to see more ways of distinction between the sexes (including none at all)
I'm not the only one who gets peeved by this! Also, non-binary commonly appearing sexes sounds kind of interesting. I hope the physical differences are really pronounced.
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Oh nice. I've always liked Trandoshans.
I initially said Jem'Hadar but I think Trandoshan would be closer.
Aside, I approve of your avatar. Cluttermancer eh? Me too. ;)
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First of all, I love this. I've wanted a Large Reptile race in Pathfinder FOREVER.
Also, this is going to sound really weird, but I am noticing that all of the Vesk art so far trends toward the same general body type. Do the Vesk lack sexual dimorphism, or are they a hermaphroditic species? Cause that'd be WILD. I am very happy to not have to deal with Inexplicable Lizard T$+*.
You and me both! I known its all fantasy, but mammaryglands on things that either dont have them or only express them while pregnant/nursing is such a pet peeve of mine!
Though I suspect there will be no three to five gendered races in the Starfinder Core Rulebook...False. :D
How bad does James want to show us all the cards he has?
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How bad does James want to show us all the cards he has?Though I suspect there will be no three to five gendered races in the Starfinder Core Rulebook...False. :D
This is why I play RPGs and not poker. :D
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On another note, I like that these guys actually seem to have a unified look. In the past we've started out with these great designs for lizardfolk and troglodytes, but then every other illustration of them ignores that design and just bases them off of random lizards. These guys look like a cross between agamas, iguanas, and dimetrodon, and it works really well.That's one of the major things that left me worried about the vesk, Troodos.
I really liked the design of the reptilian Vesk race - specially their heads and bulk - but just as the lizardfolk or serpentfolk, I'm afraid that they will lose this originality and become a bunch of random bipedal lizards (like frilled-lizard vesk or chameleon vesk). That would indeed support the assumption that they are merely the "space lizardfolk".
I hope there are no such variations. They are aliens after all, and as such, they shouldn't be based on Golarion and Earth's fauna.
I kinda like an idea where all these races -- vesk, lizardfolk, nagaji -- all share some root ancestor race, and they're all just evolutionary adaptations to their native environments. Kinda like how Earth humans have adapted from everything from pygmies to tall Scandinavians, and then how much (fictional) humans go on to further adapt by growing up in lower G/zero G environments like in The Expanse.
I hope the Vesk reproduce through cloning :-)That's not a bad idea. There is a lizard that does essentially do that. I can't remember the name but they are all basically female and birth what are effectively clones. Kind of an evolutionary dead-end though.
Parthenogenesis. Although in higher order life like humanoids, parthenogenesis is probably advantageous for only a generation or two before the risk of accumulated genetic errors becomes too problematic. But since vesk aren't bound by Earth genetics, maybe the vesk males aren't reliant on a Y-chromosome, and so vesk males could also reproduce parthenogenetically? Heck, maybe they're like alligators where their sex is temperature determinant?
Edit: If the vesk are oviparous, then parents can take equal turns raising the offspring. Perhaps the vesk raise their offspring in a communal creche? If vesk hatchlings are scentless and otherwise almost indistinguishable from another until adolescence, then it would be advantageous for that entire vesk community to ensure that all their children are defended and raised well. It'd be neat if the vesk are equals (or better) than humans at war, but more egalitarian than humans at child rearing.
On another note, I like that these guys actually seem to have a unified look. In the past we've started out with these great designs for lizardfolk and troglodytes, but then every other illustration of them ignores that design and just bases them off of random lizards. These guys look like a cross between agamas, iguanas, and dimetrodon, and it works really well.That's one of the major things that left me worried about the vesk, Troodos.
I really liked the design of the reptilian Vesk race - specially their heads and bulk - but just as the lizardfolk or serpentfolk, I'm afraid that they will lose this originality and become a bunch of random bipedal lizards (like frilled-lizard vesk or chameleon vesk). That would indeed support the assumption that they are merely the "space lizardfolk".
I hope there are no such variations. They are aliens after all, and as such, they shouldn't be based on Golarion and Earth's fauna.
I kinda like an idea where all these races -- vesk, lizardfolk, nagaji -- all share some root ancestor race, and they're all just evolutionary adaptations to their native environments. Kinda like how Earth humans have adapted from everything from pygmies to tall Scandinavians, and then how much (fictional) humans go on to adapt by growing up in lower G/zero G environments like in The Expanse.
Parthenogenesis. Although in higher order life like humanoids, parthenogenesis is probably advantageous for only a generation or two before the risk of accumulated genetic errors becomes too problematic. But since vesk aren't bound by Earth...I hope the Vesk reproduce through cloning :-)That's not a bad idea. There is a lizard that does essentially do that. I can't remember the name but they are all basically female and birth what are effectively clones. Kind of an evolutionary dead-end though.
Very cool thanks. That is what I was referring to however that was much more informative. Hmm just remembering something I read on epigenetics that makes me think it's not as dead end as I would have first thought. Anyways, end thread derail. Thanks again. :)
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So the Vesk Iconic is actually a wild soldier girl? That awesome!
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we all swore a blood oath at the beginning of this game that there would be no lizard-breasts in Starfinder.
MY HERO.
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*In the vesk art, the mechanic is female and the soldier is male. Vesk females have bright colors, while the males are more drab (hence his need to show off those abs, presumably). They have similar body shapes because that's true of a lot of reptiles, and because we all swore a blood oath at the beginning of this game that there would be no lizard-breasts in Starfinder.
(To paraphrase the Trix commercials: Silly artists, mammary glands are for *mammals*!)
What about Vesk with Body Image Problems because of a pervasive Humanoid standard of beauty? Will there be wearable fake breasts for them to strive to reach an impossible ideal?
What about Vesk with Body Image Problems because of a pervasive Humanoid standard of beauty? Will there be wearable fake breasts for them to strive to reach an impossible ideal?*In the vesk art, the mechanic is female and the soldier is male. Vesk females have bright colors, while the males are more drab (hence his need to show off those abs, presumably). They have similar body shapes because that's true of a lot of reptiles, and because we all swore a blood oath at the beginning of this game that there would be no lizard-breasts in Starfinder.
(To paraphrase the Trix commercials: Silly artists, mammary glands are for *mammals*!)
I would imagine the vesk would take on cosmetics before implants. Their females are denoted by brightly colored skin, could you imagine if they got a hold of blush, eyeshadow, and lipstick?
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Glad for no lizard-breasts, but aren't the males in lizard culture usually the bright flashy ones?
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Glad for no lizard-breasts, but aren't the males in lizard culture usually the bright flashy ones?
Thank you! I'm giving it a pass because they're aliens, but yeah...
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The Vesk probably refer to their home system as the Veskarium when talking to people from the Pact Worlds. (I imagine that it is a partial translation, as it sounds somewhat close to places like the Arcanmirium.) They likely have their own names in their own languages for their system. (Do the Vesk have any of their subjugated species on their vessels performing any tasks?)
I recall that the Azlanti called Golarion's moon Somal. (Is it still in the system or did it vanish with Golarion?) Perhaps the peoples of the Pact Worlds refer to the system by their own preferred names. If Taldane, or a descended language, is still in use, then many peoples whose ancestors hailed from the Inner Sea region may use an Azlanti name for the Sun and might have a word related to that name in the same way that "solar" references the Latin name Sol. This might have been adopted in a few other languages, perhaps if only as a generic term for a star system.
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*In the vesk art, the mechanic is female and the soldier is male. Vesk females have bright colors, while the males are more drab (hence his need to show off those abs, presumably). They have similar body shapes because that's true of a lot of reptiles, and because we all swore a blood oath at the beginning of this game that there would be no lizard-breasts in Starfinder.(To paraphrase the Trix commercials: Silly artists, mammary glands are for *mammals*!)
James you are the best!
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Glad for no lizard-breasts, but aren't the males in lizard culture usually the bright flashy ones?Isn't that birds and not reptiles?
With reptiles, males & females look the same, besides females being bigger and stronger iirc.
Eh, common ancestor.
Sexual dimorphism works like that on Earth. These things aren't from Earth.
While convergent evolution dictates that ectothermic land carnivores likely will develop similar physical features to better fill their ecological niche, it wouldn't have much effect on the more 'social' features, such as display coloration, which are driven less by environmental pressure.
So on the Vesk homeworld it could be the females of all sorts of species that are brighter colored than the males, because millions of years ago a small male lizard chose the slightly more colorful female lizard as his mate.
Aside, I approve of your avatar. Cluttermancer eh? Me too. ;)
Aside, to be honest, I've always hated your avatar choice. I had this avatar first ;)
Well it's not like you couldn't just flip the genders in your own home brew as far as the artwork goes :)
FLUSH...AHHHHHHH
...I think I need to make this character now. A custodial engineer.
In the Space Quest games, you play a custodial engineer.
Good work on the art, though. They look like they could be real.
Aside, to be honest, I've always hated your avatar choice. I had this avatar first ;)
Ouch. Did you? Not changing. ;)
Back to the thread.
Anyone have any stat guesses?
My attempt:
Str: +2
Wis: +2
Char: -2
Low Light Vision
Scent
Natural Armour +2
Tail: +2 to balance, Natural attack 1d6
+2 to intimidate
So on the Vesk homeworld it could be the females of all sorts of species that are brighter colored than the males, because millions of years ago a small male lizard chose the slightly more colorful female lizard as his mate.
)
males are brighter because they're pretty expendable as far as the population goes. It wouldn't matter if you were top of the food chain though
in order to bother attracting a male, the male would have to be putting large amount of resources into the eggs. Maybe the females traditionally handed the eggs off to the male and said "I laid this. You defend it from the other males now, I'm gonna go get lunch. See you in 6 months" or something. Like a desert version of emporer penguins...
I'm thinking there's a rhea where the female does the displaying to attract a mate for that reason.
Anyone have any stat guesses?My attempt:
Str: +2
Wis: +2
Char: -2Low Light Vision
Scent
Natural Armour +2
Tail: +2 to balance, Natural attack 1d6
+2 to intimidateI think str is a given, and negative cha is likely. Their second bump is likely con or wis.
If they manage all those special abilities, I'd be in love.
I was going to put con over wis at first it's just I rarely see races with two physical stat bumps. I do think it would make more sense reading the Vesk behaviour above, but maybe not. Thanks . :)
If they get at least an option for a bite attack I will be sad.
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I'm a bit torn on this. On the one hand, I love lizard people. They are always pretty cool. On the other hand, I was hoping for more unusual looking aliens than just humanoid lizard.
So, idk how I feel. The art looks great though.
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Good idea.
Bacteria laden bite like a Kommodo Dragon.
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It's true that Earth lizards (and birds, and other creatures) often have the males as the bright showy ones, competing for female attention. That's specifically why we flipped it—to help get a little farther from our Earth standard and explore a reptilian race with a different biology and culture. After all, males competing for females is a function of one evolutionary path, but it's certainly not the only option!
And kudos to the folks talking about parthenogenesis—I actually gave that to Pathfinder lizardfolk waaaay back in Classic Monsters Revisited! :D
This brings up a question. I'm going to guess there is no difference in the sound of each genders voice? Both gruff and intimidating or?
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I guess I just don't think having the females be the bright colored ones very subversive. Different to real lizards, sure. Not very different when in gaming bright colorful tends to equal female and drab solid colors tends to equal male.
Unless the final race is super off the walls crazy awesome this will be my first character if I ever break away from DM'ing, because as a half-orc and Turian enthusiast this seems like my jam.
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This brings up a question. I'm going to guess there is no difference in the sound of each genders voice? Both gruff and intimidating or?
It would be amusing if the female sounded gruffer and more intimidating than the male.
I can already see many amusing situations arising when a Vesk guesses the gender of a non-Vesk incorrectly (and possibly vice versa).
This brings up a question. I'm going to guess there is no difference in the sound of each genders voice? Both gruff and intimidating or?It would be amusing if the female sounded gruffer and more intimidating than the male.
I can already see many amusing situations arising when a Vesk guesses the gender of a non-Vesk incorrectly (and possibly vice versa).
Perhaps they sound the same but one can do a mating call the other can't? Or each has a unique mating call the other can't do?