Pathfinders of Death

For people wanting gameplay videos, I have been working with Beasts of War, in conjunction with my podcast, to do some high quality videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncW3pZFA_nM

So far we have done the first 5 lantern years, and will be recording more in the near future.

Woooooooooooooo! Finally not on a Phone!

So...avoiding NSFW links...

The boardgame tiles, minis, etc. are mostly bog standard Dark Fantasy. There's frequent Horrible Fates with a fair amount of insanity, body horror and general violation, most of it not specifically sexual.

It's a pretty badass boardgame. Much fun. Very frustrating & challenging.

The.....issues...people have are usually discovered in the fluff & art for the game.
Let's be frank here - the art style and aesthetic for the pinups is "Naga was underdeveloped and overclothed" and the general direction is "Bosche & Geiger were onto something, but it's a bit too subtle, innit?"

Many of the art pieces in the book are excellent displays of artistic talent but the tone and design is 80's heavy metal album covers or Boris Vallejo paintings if he was into gore. And when a woman is being devoured, or dismembered there's a tendency to make it a sexy dismemberment.

Spidiclese is the best in-game example of what I like to call 'spot the fetish this mini is designed around" - It's a giant spider /thing/ who has a 'lure' that it uses to attract survivors. The lure is a sexy dismembered torso of a woman.

The really squik stuff has been memoryholed from the store and gallery, the links work but you have to go directly to the link, and since the kingdom death store & gallery are /also/ the lore book most are gone.

All are moderately to exceedingly NSFW - look up 'Ammo Slave' for the most conventional example (Fetish - Nonconsensual slavery, humiliation & sexual objectification). The Ammo Slave is gone, but the Great Hunter (including naked crossbow attendant) is still about.

Then you have the entire Holy Lands & Mother series are..yeah. Aside from the Wet Nurse most are totally SFW. Until you read how you get to be a mother. You get to be a Grand Mother by surviving having your womb "prepared" by the Holy Entity (a process few survive) after being 'attended to' by a Wetnurse for a bit so that you can give birth to monsters.

Again, some of that is still on the website (http://gallery.kingdomdeath.com/Grand-Mother - it's SFW) - but you have to know the exact URL to get there. The lore for the Mother is missing, but the gallery is still there.

It's entirely possible that many of the super-squick stuff will be retconned, but I doubt it. The game is up front about what kind of material it wants to cover.

Erik Mona wrote:

General Dissa Ray wrote:

I bet someone with moderator access could delete both of the first two comments. I doubt either author would mind, especially if they read them a day or two after.

Marco and Erik have been pretty awesome to both each other and all of us on this forum. Those are a bit of a blemish.

Ennh. I think we're good with each other at this point. We just were both feeling a little bit elbow-jabby yesterday. Watch the evolution of two nerds arguing about miniatures in real time!

I still love you, man. :-)

Right back at you, Marco! We are eternal International Brothers in Plastic!

...

oh wow

ok

uh

Stuff like this reminds me of some of the reasons why I walked away from Pathfinder/mainstream fantasy RPGs for most of last year.

Also that SFW link, not that I'm even at work for it to matter, isn't remotely SFW for a lot of places.

This is not a family-friendly game for younger audiences. It is very blatant, advertising itself as "body horror".

That said, a lot of the models that people have problems with (Wet Nurse, or Pin-ups, or Grandmother), aren't technically canon with regards to Kingdom Death: Monster. That is, they do not appear at all in the rules for the game itself.

I caution against anyone forming too strong of an opinion without giving due consideration either way. While there are certainly creatures that use sexuality as a means to create horror, there are others that are more traditional. The Flower Knight, for example, is simply a knight who spends its free time gardening.

I applaud Paizo for their involvement in Kingdom Death, as well as Poots and his team for standing behind their art.

If anyone ever has the chance to at least try out the game, it's certainly worth it. It's a ton of fun. Living Adonis-like statues in hell try to stay alive through killing walking body fetish horrors and wearing them as pants and hats. Ultimately they create a culture and learn a little about their existence, but then get eaten by a flashlight obsessed ghost.

I'm familiar with Kingdom Death and have thought a bit about this, and it just has me asking:

Why?

Usually crossovers get people interested in other products they might not have heard of. That's the benefit Kingdom Death will get from this given Pathfinder's popularity (and assuming KD fans don't know about Pathfinder, which is doubtful). But I can't help but wonder how much will it benefit? Kingdom Death, while highly original and clever, doesn't pull punches and isn't for everyone. Couple that with a heavy expense just for the base game as well as detailed model assembly and you've really got a game tailored made for certain tastes.

And what does Pathfinder get? Surely most of Kingdom Death's fan base is familiar with Pathfinder, so how does it benefit from this? Some really detailed models for their Star characters? If they wanted that, they could find other... and far more fan friendly... methods of doing that besides saying "hey, peep this kickstarter with 24 hours left." (Forgive this part if this was announced earlier and I missed it).

I can't help but feel that a few folks in the Paizo office just happen to like Kingdom Death and wanted to see their creations in it. I also think they didn't think things through about the model portion of it. People love these characters, PATHFINDER fans love these characters. Making really good minis of them for another game is... kind of insulting.

Here's to hoping they can make them more readily available on down the road like they said, cause as a whole this kind of comes off as a marketing flop.

Marco Massoudi wrote:

Erik Mona wrote:

General Dissa Ray wrote:

I bet someone with moderator access could delete both of the first two comments. I doubt either author would mind, especially if they read them a day or two after.

Marco and Erik have been pretty awesome to both each other and all of us on this forum. Those are a bit of a blemish.

Ennh. I think we're good with each other at this point. We just were both feeling a little bit elbow-jabby yesterday. Watch the evolution of two nerds arguing about miniatures in real time!

I still love you, man. :-)

Right back at you, Marco! We are eternal International Brothers in Plastic!

That sounds like a cool name for a band - "Hi, we´re International Brothers in Plastic. Our next song is called Crown of Fangs." ;-)

NEWS:
It seems the next D&D storyline is called "Tales from the Yawning Portal" and is made up from seven classic scenarios from D&D history:

-Against the Giants
-Dead in Thay
-Forge of Fury
-Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan
-Sunless Citadel
-Tomb of Horrors
-White Plume Mountain

I hear the next minis series "Icon of the Realms 7" is loosely based on this. The book will be out in hobby stores on march 24th and elsewhere on april 4th.
There is no release date yet for the minis, but it will be between april and july. Personally i expect july, because "PFB: Crown of Fangs" will be out in may, but it may be possible that Wizkids decide to put it on the market in late march/early april.

Most Kingdom Death characters awaken naked in a shadowy nightmare realm with only a rock as a weapon.

So many situations in life start off metaphorically the same way.

I also think they didn't think things through about the model portion of it. People love these characters, PATHFINDER fans love these characters. Making really good minis of them for another game is... kind of insulting.

1) Paizo isn't making the minis, Kingdom Death is. These are Kingdom Death minis of Pathfinder characters.

2) You can use the KD and Pathfinder minis interchangeably ya'know, since they're just minis. I use my KD stuff more for Pathfinder than I do for KD.

Here's to hoping they can make them more readily available on down the road like they said, cause as a whole this kind of comes off as a marketing flop.

3) High quality stuff costs.

4) By the amounts the pledges shot up after the announcement, I'd say it's the opposite of a flop.

It is also worth noting for anyone who may not be aware: miniatures from Kingdom Death do not come assembled or painted, as compared to the typical Pathfinder Battle Miniature which does.

Miniatures we know to be in the regular "Crown of Fangs" boosters:

- Bone Devil (1 of 8 large uncommon figures)
- Queen Ileosa Arabasti (1 of 8 medium rare figures)
- Gray Maiden Dragon Raider (1 of 4 large rare figures) #44
- ? Skeleton (1 of 13 medium common figures)
- Red Mantis Assassin (1 of 11 medium uncommon figures)
- Grey Maiden (1 of 11 medium uncommon figures)
- ? Giant (1 of 8 uncommon figures)

The lure is a sexy dismembered torso of a woman.

To be fair the most prominent story event as well as a lot of the card and rule book art features male lures, as the lure is an actual person impaled on his mind controlling head stalk.

In fact during a fight with him he can take over a player character with that and if you're cut free you can gain powerful eldritch knowledge.

FlavorableDeez wrote:

I also think they didn't think things through about the model portion of it. People love these characters, PATHFINDER fans love these characters. Making really good minis of them for another game is... kind of insulting.

1) Paizo isn't making the minis, Kingdom Death is. These are Kingdom Death minis of Pathfinder characters.

2) You can use the KD and Pathfinder minis interchangeably ya'know, since they're just minis. I use my KD stuff more for Pathfinder than I do for KD.

FlavorableDeez wrote:

Here's to hoping they can make them more readily available on down the road like they said, cause as a whole this kind of comes off as a marketing flop.

3) High quality stuff costs.

4) By the amounts the pledges shot up after the announcement, I'd say it's the opposite of a flop.

1) What does who "manufactures" these have to do with anything? I'm discussing licensing agreements between two companies who wish to increase their business. Paizo signed off on letting their iconic characters be made as excellent models for the kickstarter campaign, thereby (possibly) limiting regular fans from getting them if they missed the boat. That's on them, and if it upsets people I can understand why (I'm not one of those, by the way, I just understand it).

2) Word, hommie. I use miniatures from outside of Pathfinder for my campaigns as well. A good looking, inspiring monster mini on the board makes a DM's job easier. What was the point of this again? Kind of obvious. I believe the article even says they're of similar size.

3) thanks for more of the obvious, but my statement still stands. The concept and themes of KD coupled with the cost of the game itself as well as the need for product assembly appeals to a very specific crowd. I can't see very many being enticed into buying a $200 game just because they cast Pathfinder's Iconic characters in it. It's quite the leap. And isn't that what crossover marketing like this is designed to do?

4) If that's the case, then hats off to them. As I stated in my comment I wasn't sure when this was first announced. I frequently look at Paizo's blog here and don't remember seeing anything to do with these models being made for KD until there was 24 hours to go in the Kickstarter. Of course I could have missed the initial announcement, but as I said, I like both KD and Pathfinder, so if those keywords showed up I'd hate to think I overlooked it. But if I did, that's totally on me.

But if you're referring to pledges shooting up after THIS particular announcement, I wouldn't put stock into it based on the Pathfinder models. Those familiar with kickstarters know they have an inverse bell curve during the process, where the most people pledge on the first and last days. Not saying some folks didn't put five down to hold their spot to get the models, just saying I'm sure a lot of people were just hesitant to pull the trigger on the kickstarter until the last minute.

Based on the article and the things Erik says in it, I don't think marketing really has anything at all to do with it. Paizo has some self proclaimed fans of KD, and when they got a chance to get involved with KD they took it. I don't blame them, as I said I like the core concepts of KD. I just hope they can get these character models to Pathfinder's regular fans at some point is all.

"What does who "manufactures" these have to do with anything?"
This: "Making really good minis of them for another game is... kind of insulting."

1) So companies shouldn't do crossovers if Company B might do something cool with Company A's stuff? As for people missing out, that's nothing new, people missed out on the collectors edition of the hardcover AP collections on this very site.

2) You don't have to buy the whole game to get the Pathfinder minis, you could have just done the add-on pledge and then the amount for the minis, it's not like they were only selling a limited amount of them.

3) it brought awareness to the game, this was a big company helping a smaller company and getting cool minis of their iconics out of it, it doesn't have to be 100% pure beneficial both ways.

4) Pathfinders of Death were finalized and then announced two days before the campaign ended, so the KS backers and the people monitoring the KS thread on here knew about it then. There was an upsurge that day as well as in the final hours.

5) I didn't see anything about the Pathfinders being exclusive to the Kickstarter so I guess the "regular" fans will have to wait and see.

5) I didn't see anything about the Pathfinders being exclusive to the Kickstarter so I guess the "regular" fans will have to wait and see.

I believe Poots mentioned that crossover promos will be more limited than their other products since doing anything with other peoples license requires massive amounts of red tape.

It'd make sense since Pathfinders of Death seems to have much more content than most promos including some stuff that even people who don't care that much about Pathfinder might be interested in.

Somebody should get Valeros an Ioun Torch. That'll free up his lantern-holding hand so that he can rock his usual dual-weapon approach

Removed a post. Our goal for paizo.com is to be a friendly and welcoming community for gamers to connect and interact. Posts promoting spiteful or malicious drama do not have a place on paizo.com.

...and I was just thinking about paying in for the Pathfinder expansion. :/

Hopefully Mr. Mona will be able to make these minis available to us in some way. I'll try not to dwell on it too much.

We'll be getting some for paizo.com down the road. They won't last forever, and you'll need to be somewhat vigilant, but we won't be shy about sharing the news and we won't run out immediately or anything.

We'll be getting some for paizo.com down the road. They won't last forever, and you'll need to be somewhat vigilant, but we won't be shy about sharing the news and we won't run out immediately or anything.

I see. Thank you, sir! ^_^

(I hope your vacation is going well, by the way.)

Based on the article and the things Erik says in it, I don't think marketing really has anything at all to do with it. Paizo has some self proclaimed fans of KD, and when they got a chance to get involved with KD they took it. I don't blame them, as I said I like the core concepts of KD. I just hope they can get these character models to Pathfinder's regular fans at some point is all.

Sorry that I missed this comment until now.

Yes, we will have ways for folks to get these minis post-campaign. I don't know when, exactly, and our stock will not be infinite, but we will have "lots" of sets on hand at paizo.com when they're finished for folks who missed out the first time around, or who just want the PF minis and not the full game, etc.

Erik Mona wrote:

We'll be getting some for paizo.com down the road. They won't last forever, and you'll need to be somewhat vigilant, but we won't be shy about sharing the news and we won't run out immediately or anything.

I see. Thank you, sir! ^_^

(I hope your vacation is going well, by the way.)

It's going ok. Hawaii is great, but I still have to finish the script for one of those Worldscape special issues for the Humble Bundle that I couldn't quite squeeze in before leaving.

I'm currently up at 1:30 procrastinating, because I've been at it all day.

Another day in paradise! :)

For anyone who didn't make it in time, Mr. Poots now has a place to request a late pledge on the Kickstarter page.

Late pledge request link
Kickstarter page with the above link (in case it changes)

From his 2/14 update: "We will invite late backers into the fray after all the backers are settled."