Playtest Thoughts: Week 1

This sounds really good! I am especially eager to see what changes were considered for the war priest - I hope he becomes less of s spellcaster, looses channel energy, and gains considerably stronger powers from their blessings.

That's... Pretty much exactly what we were looking for! Hmm. If we want to make the Warpriest a good healer, we could give it a scaling SLA cure/inflict, similar to the Summoner.

Man, all of these changes look good. I'm glad to see the playtest feedback is having an effect!

I haven't had a chance to test yet, but I am currently building a bloodrager (with one level of brawler) to test this coming Saturday. Just looking at the character sheet(s) so far, I'm really looking forward to wrecking my GM's day. :D

Awesome. I love the update-a-week idea and am excited to see the changes to the classes. They all sound very interesting :)

A bit sad the investigator looses sneak attack (a cop sap master that specializes in knowcking out his opponnents is kindof awesome) but otherwise your notes seem to match what I have seen.

A bit sad the investigator looses sneak attack (a cop sap master that specializes in knowcking out his opponnents is kindof awesome) but otherwise your notes seem to match what I have seen.

I'm not. I'm going to be happy that I'll be able to look at builds without having to work around making sneak attack function for me.

Warpriests should get DoT heals. =)

I like some of the revisions, dislike others. Well, at least the idea of those revisions, will have to wait and see what the revisions actually are to form a more permanent opinion.

As I stated under the brawler discussion I see this as kinda a pounder superhero. I like that they are making some changes to this new class. Here are just some quick ideas.....shatter asan ability , or ignore hardness,or maybe an area damage ability, like earthquake. I like the knockout ability, but would like to see a knockback or a choice between the two.

Would have loved to see sneak attack stay with investigators, along with the cleric spell list for shaman. :|

I'm not. I'm going to be happy that I'll be able to look at builds without having to work around making sneak attack function for me.

The loss of sneak attack... the loss of poison use... Those are two "offense" abilities that are lost.

The Investigator doesn't seem to have much offense now at all. Hopefully whatever replaces sneak attack adds something back.

If this has been discussed, can someone list what the conclusion was?

Also would like to see the whole Dervish Dance issue surrounding Swashbuckler (and seemingly every dex-based melee character that will ever exist) addressed. Gettin' real tired of the concept that only rapiers and scimitars are fit to be used without being AM MUSCLEHEAD (no offense to AM BARBARIAN and his kin).

I like the 99% of the directives espoused.

Although it is great that some core elements (proficiencies) and high-level abilities of the brawler are getting respecced, I would really like to see some attention given to Martial Maneuvers. It is a brilliant class ability that is restricted from really blossoming by the low number of uses per day.

I would suggest either increasing the uses per day equal to brawler level (rather than half brawler level). Or alternatively, at level 4 to 6(ish) add additional uses per day equal to the higher of Str/Dex. This would be in tune with the Knockout mechanic, and granting the additional uses at a higher level (4 to 6 or so) prevents making the brawler a quick dip class.

Please let the Shaman keep a spell list with augury, remove curse, and spiritual weapon.

All of these are the changes I desired. I'm so happy.

Woot! I think this just addressed all of my concerns for the playtest classes as is!

I've been perusing the boards pretty regularly during this playtest- the first time I've really had a chance to do so. I'm very impressed with developer responses both on the boards and in this list, and I look forward to playtesting the changes. (Especially the Arcanist. That sounds very, very interesting...)

Okay, question about playtest classes in PFS. Some of the updates in this blog are phrased a bit tentatively, but also specifically. So for PFS characters using the playtest classes, exactly what should we apply?

For example:

We are also going to change up the brawlers weapon list, giving it all simple weapons, plus any weapon on the "close" weapon group from the fighter. Of course, you will be able to use all those weapons with the brawler's flurry ability.

That's pretty specific, but it's phrased like the change hasn't taken place yet. My wife just built a PFS brawler; should she make adjustments based on this, or wait until it becomes more "official"?

Another example:

We are also looking at bringing the class up to 6 skill ranks per level (it currently has 4 per level).

So how many skill ranks does my PFS slayer have right now?

Thanks in advance for clarification. :)

Okay, question about playtest classes in PFS. Some of the updates in this blog are phrased a bit tentatively, but also specifically. So for PFS characters using the playtest classes, exactly what should we apply?

For example:

Brawler wrote:

We are also going to change up the brawlers weapon list, giving it all simple weapons, plus any weapon on the "close" weapon group from the fighter. Of course, you will be able to use all those weapons with the brawler's flurry ability.

That's pretty specific, but it's phrased like the change hasn't taken place yet. My wife just built a PFS brawler; should she make adjustments based on this, or wait until it becomes more "official"?

Another example:

Slayer wrote:

We are also looking at bringing the class up to 6 skill ranks per level (it currently has 4 per level).

So how many skill ranks does my PFS slayer have right now?

Thanks in advance for clarification. :)

Nothing yet?

I like most of these changes

I hope the Investigator keeps sneak attack

Sounds great!

I've said this in the Shaman thread, but I dislike switching to Druid. To me, Shamans are about spirits not nature, and while nature spirits are common in fantasy, so are ancestor spirits who may have lived in a large city. I'd much rather see a way for nature-themed shamans to pull in a small number of druid spells than for the whole class to get pigeonholed into one version of a currently very evocative and versatile class.

For the Shaman, I'm concerned about the loss of the necromancy spells from the cleric list. My Bones Shaman pretty much required access to those spells to fit, and the druid spell list is lacking in undead creation and necromantic abilities.

Okay, question about playtest classes in PFS. Some of the updates in this blog are phrased a bit tentatively, but also specifically. So for PFS characters using the playtest classes, exactly what should we apply?

For example:

Brawler wrote:

We are also going to change up the brawlers weapon list, giving it all simple weapons, plus any weapon on the "close" weapon group from the fighter. Of course, you will be able to use all those weapons with the brawler's flurry ability.

That's pretty specific, but it's phrased like the change hasn't taken place yet. My wife just built a PFS brawler; should she make adjustments based on this, or wait until it becomes more "official"?

Another example:

Slayer wrote:

We are also looking at bringing the class up to 6 skill ranks per level (it currently has 4 per level).

So how many skill ranks does my PFS slayer have right now?

Thanks in advance for clarification. :)

Until the new playtest document is released, I imagine you should go with what's in the current document. I might be wrong here, but since this is an ongoing process, I'm fairly certain Paizo would like as much feedback as possible, even about things they consider changing.

For the Shaman, I'm concerned about the loss of the necromancy spells from the cleric list. My Bones Shaman pretty much required access to those spells to fit, and the druid spell list is lacking in undead creation and necromantic abilities.

Would the witch spell list be a decent middle ground?

I hope the investigator do not get nerfed in the revision. I am fine if sneak attacks goes but that should be replaced with another ability that let them be equally good at combat.

Please do not let the rogues drag down the investigator.

Jiggy wrote:

Okay, question about playtest classes in PFS. Some of the updates in this blog are phrased a bit tentatively, but also specifically. So for PFS characters using the playtest classes, exactly what should we apply?

For example:

Brawler wrote:

We are also going to change up the brawlers weapon list, giving it all simple weapons, plus any weapon on the "close" weapon group from the fighter. Of course, you will be able to use all those weapons with the brawler's flurry ability.

That's pretty specific, but it's phrased like the change hasn't taken place yet. My wife just built a PFS brawler; should she make adjustments based on this, or wait until it becomes more "official"?

Another example:

Slayer wrote:

We are also looking at bringing the class up to 6 skill ranks per level (it currently has 4 per level).

So how many skill ranks does my PFS slayer have right now?

Thanks in advance for clarification. :)

Until the new playtest document is released, I imagine you should go with what's in the current document. I might be wrong here, but since this is an ongoing process, I'm fairly certain Paizo would like as much feedback as possible, even about things they consider changing.

I agree. I'd wait to change anything til the new doc comes out, unless Mike or John state otherwise.

I like this update.

I'm especially looking forward to seeing, and trying out, the revised arcanist.

Heine Stick wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

Okay, question about playtest classes in PFS. Some of the updates in this blog are phrased a bit tentatively, but also specifically. So for PFS characters using the playtest classes, exactly what should we apply?

For example:

Brawler wrote:

We are also going to change up the brawlers weapon list, giving it all simple weapons, plus any weapon on the "close" weapon group from the fighter. Of course, you will be able to use all those weapons with the brawler's flurry ability.

That's pretty specific, but it's phrased like the change hasn't taken place yet. My wife just built a PFS brawler; should she make adjustments based on this, or wait until it becomes more "official"?

Another example:

Slayer wrote:

We are also looking at bringing the class up to 6 skill ranks per level (it currently has 4 per level).

So how many skill ranks does my PFS slayer have right now?

Thanks in advance for clarification. :)

Until the new playtest document is released, I imagine you should go with what's in the current document. I might be wrong here, but since this is an ongoing process, I'm fairly certain Paizo would like as much feedback as possible, even about things they consider changing.

I agree. I'd wait to change anything til the new doc comes out, unless Mike or John state otherwise.

Actually, go with any updates posted in the first post of the stickied class articles in the class discussion area of the playtest forums. Jason has been updating those with official errata.

BetaSprite wrote:

For the Shaman, I'm concerned about the loss of the necromancy spells from the cleric list. My Bones Shaman pretty much required access to those spells to fit, and the druid spell list is lacking in undead creation and necromantic abilities.

Would the witch spell list be a decent middle ground?

I personally think the Witch list fits the most, especially since I imagine that they have similar sources of power. (non-deity otherworldly hex granters.)

Second would be Druid list because I think Shaman could lean into animism.

What's mechanically better I don't know.

godsDMit wrote:

Heine Stick wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

Okay, question about playtest classes in PFS. Some of the updates in this blog are phrased a bit tentatively, but also specifically. So for PFS characters using the playtest classes, exactly what should we apply?

For example:

Brawler wrote:

We are also going to change up the brawlers weapon list, giving it all simple weapons, plus any weapon on the "close" weapon group from the fighter. Of course, you will be able to use all those weapons with the brawler's flurry ability.

That's pretty specific, but it's phrased like the change hasn't taken place yet. My wife just built a PFS brawler; should she make adjustments based on this, or wait until it becomes more "official"?

Another example:

Slayer wrote:

We are also looking at bringing the class up to 6 skill ranks per level (it currently has 4 per level).

So how many skill ranks does my PFS slayer have right now?

Thanks in advance for clarification. :)

Until the new playtest document is released, I imagine you should go with what's in the current document. I might be wrong here, but since this is an ongoing process, I'm fairly certain Paizo would like as much feedback as possible, even about things they consider changing.

I agree. I'd wait to change anything til the new doc comes out, unless Mike or John state otherwise.

Actually, go with any updates posted in the first post of the stickied class articles in the class discussion area of the playtest forums. Jason has been updating those with official errata.

Yes, sorry, this. However, I would still ignore the blog post unless he puts this stuff into the stickied posts in the playtest forum or updates the doc.

Virgil Firecask wrote:

BetaSprite wrote:

For the Shaman, I'm concerned about the loss of the necromancy spells from the cleric list. My Bones Shaman pretty much required access to those spells to fit, and the druid spell list is lacking in undead creation and necromantic abilities.

Would the witch spell list be a decent middle ground?

I personally think the Witch list fits the most, especially since I imagine that they have similar sources of power. (non-deity otherworldly hex granters.)

Second would be Druid list because I think Shaman could lean into animism.

What's mechanically better I don't know.

Actually, thinking on it, the witch list might be bad for the pure fact that witches are arcane... which would put the witch list as both divine and arcane if shaman were a divine version of that. That might open weird interactions involving things like mystic theurge or something similar.

Virgil Firecask wrote:

godsDMit wrote:

Heine Stick wrote:

Jiggy wrote:

Okay, question about playtest classes in PFS. Some of the updates in this blog are phrased a bit tentatively, but also specifically. So for PFS characters using the playtest classes, exactly what should we apply?

For example:

Brawler wrote:

We are also going to change up the brawlers weapon list, giving it all simple weapons, plus any weapon on the "close" weapon group from the fighter. Of course, you will be able to use all those weapons with the brawler's flurry ability.

That's pretty specific, but it's phrased like the change hasn't taken place yet. My wife just built a PFS brawler; should she make adjustments based on this, or wait until it becomes more "official"?

Another example:

Slayer wrote:

We are also looking at bringing the class up to 6 skill ranks per level (it currently has 4 per level).

So how many skill ranks does my PFS slayer have right now?

Thanks in advance for clarification. :)

Until the new playtest document is released, I imagine you should go with what's in the current document. I might be wrong here, but since this is an ongoing process, I'm fairly certain Paizo would like as much feedback as possible, even about things they consider changing.

I agree. I'd wait to change anything til the new doc comes out, unless Mike or John state otherwise.

Actually, go with any updates posted in the first post of the stickied class articles in the class discussion area of the playtest forums. Jason has been updating those with official errata.

Yes, sorry, this. However, I would still ignore the blog post unless he puts this stuff into the stickied posts in the playtest forum or updates the doc.

Yeah, I didn't feel like Additional Resources was very clear, but what you guys are saying sounds safe.

Malwing wrote:

Virgil Firecask wrote:

BetaSprite wrote:

For the Shaman, I'm concerned about the loss of the necromancy spells from the cleric list. My Bones Shaman pretty much required access to those spells to fit, and the druid spell list is lacking in undead creation and necromantic abilities.

Would the witch spell list be a decent middle ground?

I personally think the Witch list fits the most, especially since I imagine that they have similar sources of power. (non-deity otherworldly hex granters.)

Second would be Druid list because I think Shaman could lean into animism.

What's mechanically better I don't know.

Actually, thinking on it, the witch list might be bad for the pure fact that witches are arcane... which would put the witch list as both divine and arcane if shaman were a divine version of that. That might open weird interactions involving things like mystic theurge or something similar.

I think palette swapping an arcane list to divine works out. The witch and Bard cast arcane spells that are often on divine caster lists, so it's less of the list that's arcane and more of the source.

That does bring up the question 'Should the Shaman be divine?' I mean granting divine spells is leaning into Deity territory. Are Spirits Diet Deities or are they some other kind of cosmic beings. With witch I was under the impression that whatever their Patron was was not a Deity in the traditional sense so granted arcane spells but because they were incarnations of some sort they granted spells that were traditionally divine as arcane spells. It would help if we had some relative idea on where Patrons and Spirits fits into planar cosmology.

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

Kind of unfortunate to see warpriests possibly losing channel, but it will at least fix their MAD problem. Overall I like what I've seen for all the classes, here in this blog post.

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

What if the Investigator could use his inspiration dice on damage rolls?

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

Sounds like you want the slayer's Favored Target.

Tirisfal wrote:

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

Sounds like you want the slayer's Favored Target.

Or a variant of Assassin's Death Attack.

Kind of unfortunate to see warpriests possibly losing channel, but it will at least fix their MAD problem. Overall I like what I've seen for all the classes, here in this blog post.

I support dropping channel for Warpriests. It's meager enough on a full Cleric; the reduced version on Warpriests is barely worth even considering. Dropping it helps make Warpriests less MAD, and frees up room for other abilities that better contribute to their more martial role.

The idea of the new Arcanist is really great. He may become the most interesting arcane class yet.

Investigators should keep the precision damage. If not sneak attack some other significant non magic bonus. Something in line with the recent Sherlock Holmes movies.

I would keep the cleric list for the shaman.

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

So, Favored Target?

Well I like most of the changes I strongly disagreed with Shaman origionaly being based off the cleric list and have said that the witch list is a better choice. Druid spell list is better but still a mistake, the witch spell list is the best choice in my opinion.

Tels wrote:

Tirisfal wrote:

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

Sounds like you want the slayer's Favored Target.

Or a variant of Assassin's Death Attack.

That version of Sherlock Holmes, I think, is more Brawler, than Investigator. At least in that scene.

Orthos wrote:

Tels wrote:

Tirisfal wrote:

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

Sounds like you want the slayer's Favored Target.

Or a variant of Assassin's Death Attack.

That version of Sherlock Holmes, I think, is more Brawler, than Investigator. At least in that scene.

Multi-class Brawler/Investigators are allowable. :-)

Tels wrote:

Tirisfal wrote:

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

Sounds like you want the slayer's Favored Target.

Or a variant of Assassin's Death Attack.

That's what I'm thinking - observe the target for a turn or two, and then add your inspiration bonus to your attack roll.

I like almost all of these changes.

And I LOVE what is envisioned for the Hunter, the Swashbuckler and the Warpriest.

Great job, everyone !!!

Tirisfal wrote:

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

What if the Investigator could use his inspiration dice on damage rolls?

This sounds great actually (or at least evocative) :-)

Orthos wrote:

Tels wrote:

Tirisfal wrote:

I still think that the Investigator should lose sneak attack in exchange for an ability that let's you observe your enemy, and make studied attacks :)

Sounds like you want the slayer's Favored Target.

Or a variant of Assassin's Death Attack.

That's what I'm thinking - observe the target for a turn or two, and then add your inspiration bonus to your attack roll.

They already can... -_-

Inspiration can also be used on attack rolls and saving throws, though at the cost of expending two uses of inspiration from the investigator’s pool. In the case of saving throws, using inspiration is an immediate action rather than a free action.

They can also select the following talents:

Amazing Inspiration (Ex): When using inspiration, the investigator rolls a d8 instead of d6. At 20th level, the investigator rolls 2d8 and adds both dice to the result. An investigator must be at least 7th level to select this investigator talent.

Combat Inspiration (Ex): When an investigator uses inspiration on an attack roll or saving throw, he expends one use of inspiration instead of two. An investigator must be at least 9th level to select this investigator talent.