Paizo announces Paizo Game Space

Mark Moreland wrote:

ENWorld report

Thank you.

Wow...just wow. Didn't see that coming. I really thought they had finally got this going in the right direction in time for 5E. What is going on over there?

They are too greedy with the online thing "Pay to access 1, pay more to access 1a, pay even more to access 1b, yes, pay to access 2, pay more to access 2a, pay even more to access 2b..."

Pricing depends. Does Paizo have some way to do scratch off cards with access codes? I could see a pricing model going something like this:

Versions of the condition and buff cards come free.

Buy a flip map, map set, box of pawns,(box of minis?) or deck of cards and get a card with an access code in the box.

Maybe a $15/month subscription to get access to all the Paizo VTT content.

3PPs can offer VTT content in a variety of formats on the Paizo site. 3PPs can sell access to the content in the Paizo VTT and sell the files for other VTT programs at the same time (buy a bundle).

A way exists for players to hand each other access to their VTT content for the duration of the game (the digital equivalent of the player with the huge mini collection).

Oh and once you get the implementation done for Pathfinder, it might be nice of the Paizo store could, eventually, sell VTT implementations of board games (Settler's of Catan and the like).

It would be nice if you get game space access to assets associated with PDFs you have previously purchased.

I hope it's usable by those of us not overly competent with computers.

One of the big negatives when I look at RPG software (or any software really) is if there's a bewildering array of options. If it's too hard to learn what matters and what doesnt, I just wont bother.

Personally, I'd much prefer if the default assumption was simple and straightforward with the bells and whistles being hidden unless deliberately activated by the user.

It would be nice if you get game space access to assets associated with PDFs you have previously purchased.

I figured that kind of thing would be a decent subscriber perk.

While I know there's a lot to be determined about this, I'm very excited. My biggest question is simply, is there a rough timeline on when this would be out? I'm not looking for anything concrete, but are we talking 2012, 2013, 2014, or is it too early (and too many failed attempts by others) to even put a year on when this will be ready for public use?

While I know there's a lot to be determined about this, I'm very excited. My biggest question is simply, is there a rough timeline on when this would be out? I'm not looking for anything concrete, but are we talking 2012, 2013, 2014, or is it too early (and too many failed attempts by others) to even put a year on when this will be ready for public use?

From Gary's presentation notes earlier in the thread.

When can I use it.

It's not quite ready yet. Don't worry, we're not going to wait until it's perfect. It turns out, software is never perfect.
So you'll be able to play with Paizo Game Space sometime this summer. And we'll keep making it better as we go.

Paizo: VTT!

WotC: umm...welll...*tumbleweed*...you know....LOOK, NEW DRIZZT NOVEL!

I have said it up thread but I will say it again. Paizo makes fantastic content, adventure paths, modules and the Golarion support. This tool should heavily play to this strength and let the people bring their own rules system. Don't bake in too much of the rules systems. There are two great reasons for this:

1. Allows people to use this (and pay for this) with rules systems like Savage Worlds or Swords and Wizardry.
2. Nobody plays Pathfinder the same. I certainly run a heavily modified ruleset which would be impossible to use with baked in rules support.

Worst case make the rules support a toggle. Focus on ease of use, social features (Facebook, twitter) and the ability for third party (slumbering tsar anyone) support for maps, tokens and handouts. Allow the 3PP guys to submit their assets and you can approve them through to live. Set up the ability to buy the modules through your existing storefront into a virtual online module catalog.

But above all recognize that roleplayers are a creative bunch and allow flexibility and freedom rather than locking it down.

Wow. Just found this and I'm excited. This could be absolutely awesome. I use Maptools all the time and while it works pretty well, it is far from ideal. Good luck and kudos to you Paizo!

this is so absurdly exciting for me. For nearly a year now I am trying to set up a PF group with zeri success - high school ended last year so my freinds an I were scattered all over the country.

now, though? I'll just wait 'till this little wonder feature comes online, give a call to my friends, and start an AP!

I wonder exactly how much support will the system provide for APs. I mean, I'll need all the maps, that's for sure, but what happens betweem combats? I mean, not only do I not want to describe evrey single thing my players do with miniature movements across the board, that would also be impossible. Depending on what the players chose to do, they might end up in any of a thousand diffrent locations. They can go hunting in a forest or looking for clues in a back alley or visiting a family member or going to the town hall to speak with the mayor.

In a normal tabletop RPG we will just use our imagination for all that and only pull out maps and minis when combat starts, but how will that work online? will we just get a black screen while not having combat?

I haven'r ead through all the posts that have been posted will the VTT support HeroLab? It would be really great if it did.

I also prefer to have a VTT that it produced by the company that is writing the rules, as this should provide an good unserstanding of how things should intergrate together.

I am looking forward to this tool and will buy into it. When will the first beta testing be available to the public?

I would also prefer if that VTT did not have to have a permant internet connection in case you wanted to use for your local game.

I'd like to see if it will support the Kingmaker overland map, as getting that thing ready for my players is causing me a lot of grief!

It would be nice if you get game space access to assets associated with PDFs you have previously purchased.

Agreed the VTT should have some kind of support for the PDFs of AP that we have already purchased. And the cost for a pay per month would not be so bad to be able to access all of the content as opposed to paying per set of stuff like buying a set of token goblins sure it is cheaper in the long run to pay per item but the pay per month is a lot less taxing on wallets in the short period.

Love you guys for doing this - glad to see you really differentiating yourself in this market.

Regarding pricing of assets for scenarios... I realize that Paizo needs to keep making money to keep making the awesome-sauce stuff for us... so I am not sure I expect to get the assets for free for any scenarios I may have already purchased. But, I would definitely think that a reduced price when you buy both together would be in order.

Let's say PFS Scenario X uses flip mats A and B and also has custom maps C and D. Pricing separate items might look like this:

PFS Scenario (PDF) - $4
Virtual Flip Mats A & B - $2 each
Custom maps C & D including tokens specific to the scenario (aka "Scenario Pack") - $2 if purchased separately

There could be an option when purchasing the PDF to get 50% off all associated assets: Flip Mats A & B for $1 each, Scenario Pack for $1

Obviously there are a lot of ways to chop this up- an individual asset could be "packaged" in any number of "Packs" and at some point buyers will end up buying the same token more than once- it is just going to be too hard to stop that from happening. Example-

"Goblin Chief Token" appears in 4 different "Scenario Packs", One "Bestiary Pack", and a special "Goblin Lair Pack" (not related to PFS scenarios, meant for any RPG). I am sure there will be some buyers who would cry "But I already *paid* for that in my Bestiary Pack!"... but I can't think of a way around that for now without it getting very, very complicated.

Whatever pricing structure is put in place, let's keep it simple and realistic. :-)

EDIT- having said all that... I would still like a way to get ret-con purchases of assets for all the scenarios I have already purchased.

WotC drops ball.

Paizo picks up ball and runs with it.

This is becoming a pattern....

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned, but if maps are in our Paizo account history, would these be available for free to us with the new VTT?

One thing with pricing I would hope is that cross-player support is enabled so that we don't necessarily all need to "own" or have paid "access" to a map to play on it.

In my mind, certain people could pay to have better accounts, with more data storage and they host the game (i.e. the gamemaster) while players could get limited access to any materials their GM makes available, but only during a play session.

Unless every map/token/etc. is remarkably cheap (less than a $1 per) than I doubt most of my play groups would be willing to play. Traditionally, other than most of us having a copy each of the core rulebook, only our GM really needs to own a copy of an AP to get access to that adventure -- I hope this model holds over.

Mind you, whatever system Paizo settles on I suspect it will work well or if it isn't, get changed shortly to be better :-)

Yay VTT!

Right now I use maptools for my pbp, would the VTT work for pbp of an AP or Module?

Basically, liveVTT games let everyone control their character on the map.

In PBP the GM moves everyone about and takes screenshots of the map each round (or sometimes more often).

Maptools includes a facility to save an image of your campaign to post up and share with your group like this.

Will we be able to do that with Paizo Game Space?
Will we be able freeze a campaign on Paizo Game Space and link directly to it from the pbp boards (removing need to upload images to hosting sites)?

I don't think that charging for maps and tokens is wise.

A VTT simply existing helps Paizo's bottom line by letting more people play the game.

There are definitely ways to make money from a browser based VTT, but selling digital assets as though they were miniatures is just going to drive people to the (free) competition!

Of course, Gary and Lisa have both implied similar thoughts upthread, so I'm not too worried.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet...

Matchmaking or scheduling. Will there be a good way to FIND games? I think this is where most of the current tabletop software fails. I want to be able to jump on at any given moment and be able to find a Pathfinder Society game about to start and be able to join it with little fuss. That would be amazing.

Something that hasn't been mentioned yet...

Matchmaking or scheduling. Will there be a good way to FIND games? I think this is where most of the current tabletop software fails. I want to be able to jump on at any given moment and be able to find a Pathfinder Society game about to start and be able to join it with little fuss. That would be amazing.

I hadn't even considered this. That would be pretty amazing.

I am extremely excited about this! I hope the tiers of pricing are reasonable when they release that information. This will be great for our PnP group as some of the gang are going to soon go away to college or move away and this will allow us to still play together. I really hope we get to see a working version of this at GenCon. Gives me one more reason to try and go at least for one day.

aw man, i read it as paizo announces Space Game....getway too excited, though this VTT seems cool too!!

Please don't think any less of me, but this is SO the nail in the coffin for my DNDI account.... I also hope that (and apologies if this is already somewhere in this thread) the feature set found in Maptools is at least matched. I've found Maptools to be spectacularly easy and powerful.

How about

Maximum Glee

Does that mean more gay guys, more hot girls, and more Broadway musical numbers?

Does Harsk even know how to sing?

Removed a post. If you'd like to discuss other publishers and their business practices, this isn't the thread to do it in.

I actually think "Game Space" is an awesome name. It says everything that needs to be said about a Virtual Tabletop but is more succinct.

Zeetle Wyrp wrote:

If you put the word "Game" in the URL then Websense will block it.

That'll be the end of me on these message boards, because the Nazis I work for will block the entire site. There is no private internet out here :(

You seem to be suggesting that the word "game" in any URL would cause the entire site to be blocked for you, but the word "game" appears in many, many URLs on paizo.com already, including the very popular http://paizo.com/products/btpy88yj?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Core-Ruleboo k page.

Vic, I, too, am an occasional victim of Websense. While I don't know exactly how it filters sites, putting the VTT in a subdomain that includes the word "game" will likely kill it for those whose workplaces use that kind of filering.

In my case, it's the U.S. Navy. I'm underway, right now, actually. When underway, I rely on the Navy for 100% of my internet access. Since we deploy for months at a time, the success of any game I run or play on the new system will depend on being able to access it from the ship. I don't know how big of an impact that has on your demographics, but it's a datapoint.

I can get to paizo.com, probably because you have a viable store attached to that domain. On the other hand, I can't get to wizard.com (not that I want to, but it's an example). The system somehow knows that wizard.com is a site related only to gaming, while it doesn't (yet) recognize how vital paizo.com is to gaming. ;)

Cheers!

A couple of questions for someone who's never used a VTT, but has long been intrigued by the concept:

1) Obviously, ideally, you're playing together in Real-Time, but can VTTs be used to set up a scenario and then players and the DM can log in at their leisure to update with their actions?

2) How do VTTs work in conjunction with the rest of the roleplay scenario? (IE, non-combat scenes). Is there a chat style function via which the DM gives the description of what is going on, interacts as the NPCs, etc. for the PCs to roleplay with?

A couple of questions for someone who's never used a VTT, but has long been intrigued by the concept:

1) Obviously, ideally, you're playing together in Real-Time, but can VTTs be used to set up a scenario and then players and the DM can log in at their leisure to update with their actions?

You "could", but the DM would have to have the server up, or logged in 24/7 so that the VTT was available. But, to be honest, I don't think VTT's are setup to give a PbP experience, unless of course Paizo has something up their sleeves for PbPers. (I hope they stick with the true value of VTTs, real-time play.)

2) How do VTTs work in conjunction with the rest of the roleplay scenario? (IE, non-combat scenes). Is there a chat style function via which the DM gives the description of what is going on, interacts as the NPCs, etc. for the PCs to roleplay with?

All VTTs have a chat function, and you can store text in "buttons" that allow you to broadcast to the chat space, just as you would in any other chatroom. But, the very best way, is to use VOIP, like Skype or Ventrilo in addition to your VTT. When using a VTT and a VOIP you can come really close to face-to-face, and in some cases almost surpass it.

I don't think that charging for maps and tokens is wise.

A VTT simply existing helps Paizo's bottom line by letting more people play the game.

There are definitely ways to make money from a browser based VTT, but selling digital assets as though they were miniatures is just going to drive people to the (free) competition!

Of course, Gary and Lisa have both implied similar thoughts upthread, so I'm not too worried.

I would be willing to pay for digital assets (tokens, maps, etc), since that would save me time preparing them. I would imagine the price-point would be low, since I can use the PDFs to make tokens/maps fairly easily. But, with that said, I think the Game Space needs to be completely open to a GM bringing in their own assets, so if I don't want to pay for the official digital asset offerings I do not have to. To put it succinctly: pay for digital asset=yes, if Game Space allows non-proprietary assets.

I also wouldn't want PDFs taken out of the mix, because of the selling of digital assets, but I seriously doubt that would happen.

Now that I think about it, is there any talk of the Game Space ONLY accepting Paizo digital assets? I hope not. For example, I use a combination of all sorts of digital assets (Paizo and otherwise) in my Maptool campaigns.

At this point I think if you made a big map of what we know about Paizo Game Space and what will be available and what features it will have and what we'll charge for and what won't charge for, and what we don't know about all those things, there'd be a little island in the middle of a sea of blue, and that sea would be labeled "beyond here lies madness."

But I trust Lisa, Erik, Vic and Jeff to make decisions that will make customers happy. It turns out, they're really, really good at that.

I haven'r ead through all the posts that have been posted will the VTT support HeroLab? It would be really great if it did.

We just learned of the VTT at PaizoCon as well. :) Based on conversations we had with Paizo over the weekend, this is definitely a mutual objective. That being said, there are still some hurdles that need to crossed. Stay tuned for more details regarding this topic in the relatively near future....

We are reading the forums, so let us know what is important to you. I can't promise we will do what you want, but we will certainly look at and consider things.

I like the idea of a Paizo VTT running through your website. For me and my group, VTTs aren't very limited use. So, my number one request is: how will this be useful to my group? Afterall, we game 51% for the social aspect and 49% for the game.

Secondly, I subscribe to the AP, RPG, CS, Companion, Modules, and minis (and I purchase PFS scenarios). I have a substantial disposable income compared to most people, but frankly, I'm at the end of what I'm will to shell out each month. Although I may eat these words later, I'll say that I'm currently unwilling to pick up another sub, especially for a product that is of limited use. That said, my feelings are that the VTT should be free to use and that you guys should provide digital products to your subscribers for various lines (AP maps for AP subscribers, for example). You can also offer these products for purchase outside a sub, but my guess is that you make more by encouraging as many subscribers as possible.

-Skeld

This is more exciting to me than the PFO announcement. The images were impressive, too. I've not had the need, the time, or the inclination to learn how to use other VTTs before, though I have investigated them because of the potential convenience and found them overly complex for my needs.

This would allow me to get my friends from out of town into playing Pathfinder. They're still in 3.5 land.

Would/could any of the game data be saved on the user's computer to keep costs down? I don't know anything about how this stuff works, but I imagine that there would be a limited number of "game slots" available per group (or per DM)...

I may be in a minority, but I would not have a problem paying for new map packs and tokens, so long as the price point matched the product. A few cents to a few dollars depending on the size of the map and the quality of the artwork that decorates it.

If this could have the PRD side-barred onto it (with a hide option, of course), that would be handy like a shirt pocket.

This is the main reason I regret missing the banquet. This looks totally awesome and I cannot wait to try it out.

Vic Wertz wrote:

Zeetle Wyrp wrote:

If you put the word "Game" in the URL then Websense will block it.

That'll be the end of me on these message boards, because the Nazis I work for will block the entire site. There is no private internet out here :(

You seem to be suggesting that the word "game" in any URL would cause the entire site to be blocked for you, but the word "game" appears in many, many URLs on paizo.com already, including the very popular http://paizo.com/products/btpy88yj?Pathfinder-Roleplaying-Game-Core-Ruleboo k page.

Vic, I, too, am an occasional victim of Websense. While I don't know exactly how it filters sites, putting the VTT in a subdomain that includes the word "game" will likely kill it for those whose workplaces use that kind of filering.

In my case, it's the U.S. Navy. I'm underway, right now, actually. When underway, I rely on the Navy for 100% of my internet access. Since we deploy for months at a time, the success of any game I run or play on the new system will depend on being able to access it from the ship. I don't know how big of an impact that has on your demographics, but it's a datapoint.

I can get to paizo.com, probably because you have a viable store attached to that domain. On the other hand, I can't get to wizard.com (not that I want to, but it's an example). The system somehow knows that wizard.com is a site related only to gaming, while it doesn't (yet) recognize how vital paizo.com is to gaming. ;)

Cheers!

That's kinda interesting, Paris. When I got out of the Navy ('95) They were really just playing with internet access on board, and I don't know how much filtering was being done at the time, but as much as sailors have 'down time' while under way I would think they would have a bit more relaxed filtering. :/

Anyway, I hope this doesn't keep you locked out. I look forward to some FAWTL games run with this bad boy.

Anyway, I hope this doesn't keep you locked out. I look forward to some FAWTL games run...

I think we need to get the Zombeh to VVTify his Crypt of Illusions homebrew module for this when it is available.

I just realized in all my excitement that I forgot to say, This is a really cool and awesome announcement!! =)

Being able to focus on story rather than having to go through a whole book's worth of map extraction/ resizing to fit a grid plus searching for token art and then think about story - priceless!

But hopefully available via subscription :)

I'll throw in my 2 cents .. you hit the nail on the head. Running games is a lot of fun using a VTT ,but grabbing maps & other stuff is a chore I could live without.

I'm a little surprised Paizo doesn't just partner with the RPTools team vs reinventing the wheel. Maptool already does so much, especially when you consider how customizable it is via macros and all the framework libraries that are freely available. The only disadvantage to Maptool is the amount of advance prep work ... setting up vision blocking, figuring out the macros, etc.

To repeat what another poster mentioned, if you could use the artwork from any subscription in your game AND throw in images you already have available, that would be great. IMO, a nominal fee for access isn't unreasonable, given the potential convenience of an app. However, if the VTT doesn't let you use art from your subscriptions, it'd be hard to justify paying another fee for this VTT when a person can simply use Maptool for free.

havoc xiii wrote:

I'd like to repeat Barcas' question. Will this work for pbp games or not?

I'm super tempted to go back into "I don't want to talk about things that aren't finished yet" mode, but I will say two things: We love play-by-post and we've been thinking about this for awhile.

(Also, see above statements about not being done and not completely baked at launch. As Cosmo says, "Not a Guarantee™".)

I make maps on google document spreadsheets (well, Aubrey the Malformed came up with the idea......) in pbp. We used to call coordinates and everybody did maps at home on graph paper.

For what it's worth, pbp in MY experience has been about taking things and MAKING them work, instead of waiting around for some magic thing to happen.

I think that more appropriate terminology would be something along the lines of what exactly Corgi is, and how precisely am I going to adapt it to my use. I don't expect it to be tailored to me, but I'll make it fit with a hammer.

And, I think that that all remains to be seen.

This sounds great! Except for that I'd like fog of war, I think less is more on a VTT - tokens and initiative tracker is great, I'm glad it doesn't try to do much more rules wise. Perfect, becaus ethen that simplicity can be more easily cross-platform. Maybe let me add hyperlinks to the tokens (which I'd probably want to link to either d20pfsrd entries or Hero Labs PDFs I've created). Maybe let me link/share images/video/other content with the other players in the context of the VTT (even just a rich jabber chat that one can embed media into is fine)

And I think it's a smart call not to charge for use. More players = more money. Definitely give the AP content with the APs... I've been a subscriber since the beginning of Paizo and was starting to think "maybe I've got enough stuff, I haven't run half the APs I have..." But getting VTT support in them renews my interest in staying a subscriber! (I note that Hero Labbing the NPCs in the APs would help with that too...) Now the newer APs aren't just a different storyline, they are "better" (more features), so I'll keep buying. Keep suckering me in... Add PDFs of pawns to the AP sub after another year... Then Hero Lab versions of the NPCs and whatnot after another... Heck you can keep us hooked for a long ol' time.

As someone who likes to game online occasionally and hates spending gobs of time setting up and dealing with software issues, this sounds awesome.

While I like the idea of using it for an AP, I'm most interested in using this for PFS. Hopefully PFS pricing will be reasonable, I can see this being a huge bump to online PFS.