Kingdom building

I want to find the kingdom building rules that show you what buildings can be built in what size of settlement and how many months they take to build. For the life of me I can't find it. Can someone help me out?

Buy kingmaker. I dont mean to be rude but that is the source for them. If you would like an online source check out the srd.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/kingdom-building/

Thats the d20 site.

I cant find the paizo srd right now but is that what you were looking for?

In Kingmaker and Ultimate Campaign, all buildings take only one month to build, and I don't believe there are any building restrictions related to settlement size.

Legendary Games, Ultimate Rulership does have those options and more.

Buy kingmaker. I dont mean to be rude but that is the source for them. If you would like an online source check out the srd.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/kingdom-building/

Thats the d20 site.

I cant find the paizo srd right now but is that what you were looking for?

I have the kingmaker stuff and ultimate campaign. I saw something a while back that was a sort of add on to the rules. Restricting certain building types to the settlements size and a number of months to complete each building rather than the straight one month for any building.

I can't seem to find it anywhere.

John Brazer Enterprises, Book of the River Nations, also has many options.

There are no rules limiting the types of building by size, that I recall, in the Ultimate Campaign rules. The limitations are more "this building requires 1 House or Tenement to support it" sorts of rules.

There ARE some rules on settlement size limiting the selections of buildings in the Ultimate Rulership third-party product from Legendary Games. That sounds like what you want.

Ultimate rulership, that's the one! Thank you all for your speedy answers. I will look into the river nations book as well to see what it offers.

While on the topic, have any of you ever ran these rules? Likes/dislikes/tips?

Check out the Kingmaker Forum.

Still using all of them. Use the rules from UC as your base, they are improved KM rules. Then add the Ultimate Rulership rules overwriting in UC, such as the taxation​ and army rules. Use BotRN for additional material, i.e. buildings, events, magic items and stuff.

Make your own Kingdom Events table from this above.

Strongly recommend you get ALL of Legendary Games Ultimate series too.

There is an Ultimate Charisma from Everyman Gaming also.

There is some additional Kingdom Building material in scattered Wayfinder issues, which are all free.

Check out the Kingmaker Forum.

Still using all of them. Use the rules from UC as your base, they are improved KM rules. Then add the Ultimate Rulership rules overwriting in UC, such as the taxation​ and army rules. Use BotRN for additional material, i.e. buildings, events, magic items and stuff.

Make your own Kingdom Events table from this above.

Strongly recommend you get ALL of Legendary Games Ultimate series too.

There is an Ultimate Charisma from Everyman Gaming also.

There is some additional Kingdom Building material in scattered Wayfinder issues, which are all free.

This post is full of excellent advice.

Ultimate rulership, that's the one! Thank you all for your speedy answers. I will look into the river nations book as well to see what it offers.

While on the topic, have any of you ever ran these rules? Likes/dislikes/tips?

I ran a very high-powered kingdom game for three years, which eventually incorporated all of the kingdom rules from UCam, URule, UBat, and UWar (Ultimate Factions didn't exist when that game ended, and nobody wanted to play the class in Ultimate Commander), Ultimate Relationships, plus a slightly modified Ultimate Charisma.

I love a good subsystem.

Tips:

1) Don't force it. If your players are into it, awesome, but don't force the rules on them. Try it out, and if they like it, go for it, if they don't, relegate it to the background.

2) Use a tracking tool. There are a few out there. I personally endorse the Ultimate Campaign Kingdom Tracking Spreadsheet, for reasons that might become obvious, but it's not the only one. A tracking tool takes away huge chunks of the fiddly bookkeeping of Kingdoms, allowing you to focus on the game, not the maths.

3) Armies are REALLY expensive. Warn your players about this. And don't force army activity until the kingdom has a chance to afford to actually have an army.

4) Ask questions! The respondents to this thread have been some of the most knowledgeable and helpful kingdom experts you will find outside of James Jacobs, Jason Nelson, and Sean K Reynolds. These folk (and I dare to include myself in this statement) know this stuff to an amazing degree. Just ask.

Queen Moragan wrote:

Check out the Kingmaker Forum.

Still using all of them. Use the rules from UC as your base, they are improved KM rules. Then add the Ultimate Rulership rules overwriting in UC, such as the taxation​ and army rules. Use BotRN for additional material, i.e. buildings, events, magic items and stuff.

Make your own Kingdom Events table from this above.

Strongly recommend you get ALL of Legendary Games Ultimate series too.

There is an Ultimate Charisma from Everyman Gaming also.

There is some additional Kingdom Building material in scattered Wayfinder issues, which are all free.

This post is full of excellent advice.

I second this. Queen Moragan gave some terrific recommendations.

Wow thank you Queen Moragan! I came looking for one book and I got several new ones to look at! Thank you everyone for your responses I can't wait to do more research!

How do you guys handle Leadership and followers? Chemlak wouldn't having followers sort of fix the need to have as large an army if the followers were filling that role?

First, read this section of Ultimate Campaign. It's got some really awesome advice on using followers in your game.

Then, as mentioned, take a good, hard look at Ultimate Charisma from Everyman Gaming, if you have the budget. Amongst other things it has a pretty significant modification to how leadership functions.

Having said that, if your players want a group of followers to form a kingdom-scale army, I'd allow it. I haven't fully crunched through how I'd cost it - followers are devoted to the PC, but still have lives to live, forming a militia for the PC is a reasonable activity, but they need equipping, feeding, housing, and training. I wouldn't expect a HUGE reduction in cost because of that. Probably some tweak of the Recruiting an Army rules from Ultimate Battle would be in order.

As for how I handle it, I generally let my players choose how they want to use their followers, and when I first pointed out to them that it's okay to have followers who live in cities that aren't in your kingdom, they enjoyed having the chance to create a few scattered around the world who could provide aid when they needed to drop by (usually a major metropolis in the campaign that they had a permanent teleportation circle to and from - I did mention it was a high-powered game).

None of our PCs have the Leadership feat, our GM has given out "Story Points" however. We can buy followers and cohorts with these, and other things.

I would recommend giving every PC the Leadership feat as a bonus at first level, just ignore all the prerequisites. Every single one of them will be used somewhere in their Kingdom. This way your players will be helping create the horde of NPCs you'll need, and it will draw your players more into the game.

They'll react differently to the owlbears smashing through the city gates and slaughtering the gate guards if Sgt Hicks and his squad are using the masterwork silver longspears your​ PCs equiped them with last year when you recruited them to deal with a nasty werewolf in town. They just care more about things that they make, than the GM makes.

They'll need up to a few thousand troops by the end, followers would be better used for exploration, low level npc parties to deal with events, maybe show the flag around, holding important locations or positions in the government.

Most of those that adventured with the main PC party are all dead.

Most of the survivors occupy our vice-council positions, basically a spare council member for when a regular member can't attend. That way there are no vacancies (we actually have several spares for each member).

Our Army costs are pretty low, the expensive part is raising, equipping, and training them. After which they go into reserve until needed. Ultimate Rulership has better rules for population also, which affect your troop limits, one improvement we found was to not to multiple the population by the number of districts in a city. Otherwise your capital will quickly become the largest city in the region.

Again, thank you so much for your long and detailed answers. I joined this site to ask the question I started this post about because I couldn't find it, and I am so glad I did. This has been an invaluable resource which I will definitely keep using in the future. I can't wait to delve into the Kingmaker Forum you suggested.

We run powerful campaigns that allow the PC's to do just about anything within reason as long as it won't completely wreck the game. One of my characters plans to start a kingdom, using some pretty heavy Leadership optimization. One of the sources we use is the 3.5 Power of Faerun book, from that I draw a lot of additional bonuses to my leadership score for various reasons. The idea is that about mid game level I will have upwards of 2k followers. I guess my question is, how do you guys decide what the followers are? Do the players decide? Do you make guidelines such as "X% of your followers can be warriors" ? PC classes or NPC classes? Or something else entirely?

Cohorts use PC classes, all other followers are NPC classes.

Our GM makes a short list of who's available, player's choice to actually recruit them. If the type you want is not available then you need to advertise that you're recruiting followers of a particular type.

I believe the most common followers are similar to the PC's class, as it was in previous editions of D&D.

Once their Kingdom is established, followers should also be based on a PC's position in the Kingdom.

For example, my PC is a Rogue, the early options I had were Experts, Commoners, Warriors, and Rogues. As Queen she attracts Paladins, Bards, Sorcerers​, Clerics, Rangers, Wizards, Swashbucklers, Cavaliers, Summoners and others.

The Druid doesn't attract much more than Commoners, Druids, Rangers, and various critters.

Meshing Leadership and the Mass Battle/Kingdom rules is easy and complex at once.
Easy because you can literally generate some cheap troops on the fly and disband them again to circumvent their upkeep.
Complex because you have to use the Mass Battle rules to outfit your troops and get them combat ready.
If you´re going to use the 3pp Legendary Games stuff, it´ll get a bit more complicated due to needing certain building for your upgrades.

Now the main problem is, that the Mass battle rules favor quality and mass at the same time. You don´t want to create a unit below "Medium" size and, looking at the special qualities, you don´t want to create a unit with anything below 5th level cavalier/ranger/paladins.

Even if you manage to get you 2k 1st level followers assembled as a "Colossal" army, their morale will be the main issue. You´re better off outfitting them in a ranged/support role and place them behind a regular paid army if you don´t have a means to push their effectiveness, most likely with the Inspired Commander feat, a War Marshal Field Plate or using the Daring General Cavalier archetype.

So, in essence, you can use leadership to create a cheap army, but it´s performance is pretty lackluster at best, especially since you have too few followers in the interesting level range to form up a decent war band.

Where Leadership gets interesting, tho, is when looking at the team downtime rules and its two variants, the rebellion rules (Hell´s Rebels) and the militia rules (Lands of Conflict).