Dreaming Warforged |
Ok, I've had a look at our five backgrounds. I see three kind of city-themed, with the other two more nature-oriented.
I'm up for whatever. It's easier for me when a clear theme is set, but given the group's background, I'm having a hard time making suggestions.
That being said, "the darkness lurking in the forest on the edge of the city; the forgotten power that awoke and threatens all" might be a start to bring the characters together.
Inlaa |
Yeah, I'm thinking of a spooky game that's based in a city on the edge of civilization almost. Say, the city at the edge of an ancient jungle filled with ruins; or a city in a cold, desolate northern locale.
Not sure my character would fit well in a Kaiju story. I'd be willing to try it, though, if you want to give more thought on what you were considering for that type of game.
And as far as Brianne's story goes, I'd be willing to change "has found a way to do spooky magic to bring back her brother" to "is searching for a way to bring back her brother" if it'd fit the story better.
Inlaa |
One more thing to add: I'm getting a "dark mystery" vibe from this group the more I look at it. An adventurous investigator elf that tries to hide his compassion for others, a young girl willing to take desperate measures to bring back her brother, a naive and gentle oracle hunted by an eldritch monster, an old watchman that's giving up his past life to find what he truly needs, and a ranger that's looking for the biggest and most dangerous game...
Yeah, that's a good group for a dark mystery type of game. Could fit the kaiju idea or a "city on the edge of the wilds" idea either way.
Dreaming Warforged |
City can be big or small, really. What comes to mind thinking of the idea is Twin Peaks, for example, if the city's been there long enough and something awakens. Another possibility is the recent frontier town, whose expansion creates new tensions.
For settings, I'm not too attached one way or another, as long as the flavour is clear. Midnight, Eberron, Razor coast, Golarion, all can work.
Also, related in a way to setting, is the allowed classes. Some characters would work well with Occult classes. Again, nothing absolute; just ideas to explore.
TheWaskally |
Good news, everyone!
Of the three choices, I'd like the gritty city idea. My character, a rural yokel, comes to the big city. That could work.
I love Golarion. Very rich campaign setting. But if the consensus is homebrew, that's fine with me.
TarkXT |
You can have a mix of golarion and homebrew really. Though im not picky I do have a couple of cities and settings already homebrewed. One an interplanar cross road demiplane city built exclusively for dragons by dragons that happens to have a lot of people in it (as the dragons will tell you) and the other being ain a high magic setting. But that last one is a bit experimental and there are no full casters and the few non-casters that exist are still quite supernatural and currently quarantined while suffering a rather nasty ghoul plague.
Both are quite nice for dark mysteries with untouchable nobles, terrible pasts, and places too dark and terrible right on the doorstep.
However I am quite happy to work in Golarion.
By necessity the gritty nature of the game would start rather low level. There's just a point where someone falling down a dark hole is just mere annoyance rather than lethal.
Unless orbs of destruction are involved. Or black puddings.
TheWaskally |
I'd like to try your interplanar hub in another campaign. Sounds neat!
Inlaa |
Both sound great Tark! The choice of classes depends on setting Inguess, so we might want to try and set this up first. As I've mentioned, I'm good with anything, as long as the flavour and the themes are clear.
+1 to all that. I'd like to know what flavor and themes you'll decide on as a GM before I delve into character design. Whatever limitations you'd like to place are cool with me, too.
Low level gameplay does sound fine. Are you looking at placing a level cap, or perhaps doing an E6 style game?
TarkXT |
So we're good with Dragonholme?
I'm fine with starting at lvl2, 20 pt. buy. Paizo sources and spheres of magic allowed. Games a bit grittier than to allow PoW for now.
Game will likely center around copper street. Broken dreams and desperate people amidst glitz and glamour adds a nice hollywood touch.
TheWaskally |
I will need to rework my background. Maybe my class, too. Not enjoying a traditonal sky, my concept for a Heavens oracle needs some work. Probably something dragon-focused. I DID just pick up Legacy of Dragons. I'll see what's in there.
I assume we are all natives to Dragonholme? Maybe a wyvaran (pg. 238, ARG) might fit in this campaign?
Dreaming Warforged |
So we're good with Dragonholme?
I'm fine with starting at lvl2, 20 pt. buy. Paizo sources and spheres of magic allowed. Games a bit grittier than to allow PoW for now.
Game will likely center around copper street. Broken dreams and desperate people amidst glitz and glamour adds a nice hollywood touch.
Does psychic magic fit the themes/tropes? I'm having a hard time matching Occult with dragons, but I often miss obvious connections.
Dreaming Warforged |
I will need to rework my background. Maybe my class, too. Not enjoying a traditonal sky, my concept for a Heavens oracle needs some work. Probably something dragon-focused. I DID just pick up Legacy of Dragons. I'll see what's in there.
I assume we are all natives to Dragonholme? Maybe a wyvaran (pg. 238, ARG) might fit in this campaign?
But you are in the heavens. That's gotta count for something, no?
Dreaming Warforged |
Ok, sorry for the post dump, but I have another question: We spoke at first about this frontier between the city and some natural and dark realm, such as an ancient forest, with the characters coming from both rural and urban backgrounds. Does that still hold, and if so, what does it look like in a place like Dragonholme?
TheWaskally |
Does psychic magic fit the themes/tropes? I'm having a hard time matching Occult with dragons, but I often miss obvious connections.
There are the Esoteric Dragons: Pathfinder RPG Occult Adventurers 60) (astral, dream, etheric, nightmare and occult). Legacy of dragons has a lot of expanded content for incorporating those dragons for player content.
Inlaa |
Yeah, I need to finish reading on Dragonholme, but I think we should ensure there's both an urban and natural setting available.
I'm chewing on Occult classes myself ATM. I've never played one, so they're appealing, but I'm trying to find all the classes that work with "I bound the soul of my dead sibling to me and I keep them near me at all times so I'm not alone" so I can choose the one I like most.
I'm thinking this character is starting off as Chaotic Neutral with good intentions but an evil twist thanks to REALLY wanting to bring her brother back to life and having no scruples about how she goes about it.
Spirit Binder Wizard, Spiritualist, Mesmerist, and Unchained Summoner all seem like prime candidates right now.
EDIT: Also, I'm debating whether to try researching Spheres of Magic. Is it worth getting into? Is it more fun / would it be balanced if anyone else uses Vancian casting?
Inlaa |
Okay. I finished reading the history of Dragonholme and a good part of the city's description. My impression is thus:
1. Dragonholme is SUPER comparable to Sigil: The City of Doors. And like Sigil, this is a setting rife with intrigue and weird happenings and power struggles. That's a plus for our concept.
2. However, I'm not getting a low power feel from this. It would personally feel a bit odd to be playing a party of 2nd level characters in a city that is literally connected to Hell and other planes, that has super-powerful draconic guardians watching over it, that has outright banned organized worship of the gods, etc.
3. With that said, I'm assuming we'd start our adventure in the poorer areas of the Middle Layer? We might be away from the glamour and splendor of the Upper City, but it definitely sounds like there are still plenty of dragons around this area. This gives me the worried thought of "Why aren't we simply getting the dragons to help out?" Corruption is the answer, I assume?
4. Looking at it, the Lower Layer looks like it could be an adventure site filled with horrible things later, which is good. But we don't have a wilderness area near this city, really, unless you count the Green District. Ergo, the wilderness characters would definitely have to have come from off-plane, whereas someone like Brianne would probably have been born in the city.
My personal opinion:
This is an interesting setting, and it does have the potential to be gritty, but it's probably going to be best fit with a higher power of gritty. After all, high level magic services and the like are just around the corner; there are countless dragons and hundreds of millions of citizens in this city. That may provide a feeling of being inconsequential, but more importantly it simply seems... Well, like it isn't the best place for a low-level campaign.
I'd be willing to play in Dragonholme at any level, but personally feel we should either be higher level than 2 OR that we should be in a less super high fantasy setting if we're going to be starting at level 2.
I'll defer to y'all's opinions though, and as I said, I'll play in Dragonholme at any level. Just my two cents.
EDIT: I would be content if we did play in Dragonholme, just as a note. It WOULD work as a gritty city game, and that interests me. I have my concerns, but that doesn't mean I'll grumble if we choose Dragonholme.
Dreaming Warforged |
Also, sorry to triple post, but @DreamingWarforged: You're going to be playing an Occultist, then?
So we have an Occultist and an Oracle. What else is everyone looking to play? I'd rather not step on anyone's toes class-wise, and I'm pretty flexible about what class I play.
I'm looking at occultist, but nothing set in stone yet. I'm also looking at full bab classes. I often choose based on party composition and main story themes.
TheWaskally |
After much thought, I'm going back to my original concept of a human oracle. Playing a character completely out of his depths is something I've done before. I'm planning on the oracle coming to Dragonholme as a complete accident, perhaps being to close to an arcane battle or putting a portable hole in a bag of holding sort of deal.
Dreaming Warforged |
Okay. I finished reading the history of Dragonholme and a good part of the city's description. My impression is thus:
1. Dragonholme is SUPER comparable to Sigil: The City of Doors. And like Sigil, this is a setting rife with intrigue and weird happenings and power struggles. That's a plus for our concept.
2. However, I'm not getting a low power feel from this. It would personally feel a bit odd to be playing a party of 2nd level characters in a city that is literally connected to Hell and other planes, that has super-powerful draconic guardians watching over it, that has outright banned organized worship of the gods, etc.
3. With that said, I'm assuming we'd start our adventure in the poorer areas of the Middle Layer? We might be away from the glamour and splendor of the Upper City, but it definitely sounds like there are still plenty of dragons around this area. This gives me the worried thought of "Why aren't we simply getting the dragons to help out?" Corruption is the answer, I assume?
4. Looking at it, the Lower Layer looks like it could be an adventure site filled with horrible things later, which is good. But we don't have a wilderness area near this city, really, unless you count the Green District. Ergo, the wilderness characters would definitely have to have come from off-plane, whereas someone like Brianne would probably have been born in the city.
My personal opinion:
This is an interesting setting, and it does have the potential to be gritty, but it's probably going to be best fit with a higher power of gritty. After all, high level magic services and the like are just around the corner; there are countless dragons and hundreds of millions of citizens in this city. That may provide a feeling of being inconsequential, but more importantly it simply seems... Well, like it isn't the best place for a low-level campaign.
I'd be willing to play in Dragonholme at any level, but personally feel we should either be higher level than 2 OR that we should be in a less super high fantasy...
Btw, good take on the proposed setting. I have to admit I share most of your concerns, but I'm also certain these can be overcome if we think about them a bit and clarify things before setting out.
If I may paraphrase and summarize: The key questions are whether the setting allows for accommodating the urban/rural/wild overlap, whether level 2 makes sense for the setting, what does gritty look like in a city ruled by dragons, and what explains our characters' involvement in a city filled with powerhouses (the Elminster syndrome).
TarkXT |
High magic does not necessarily mean high powered. See Eberron.
Most of the group last I checked looked like they were going to be spellcasters of some form or another. This just means you are not necessarily unique, though the source and eventual power of that will make you more obviously so. Another way to look at it is as if you were living at the base of Mt. Olympus.
Why don't dragons solve the problems? Same reason the Avengers don't bother with petty purse snatchers and alleyway stabbings. Though corruption plays a part. A black dragon called the Black Tyrant is currently in charge of the House of Justice, so, yeah, the little man gets pooped on. Good reason for disillusioned guards and street gangs just trying to do right by their hoods.
On another note about the rural/urban thing. The green district would catch a lot of the rural stuff just fine. You have to imagine the scale of the city is absolutely massive. So much that it's entirely possible for someone to be born in the city and never see much past their little cultural corner of the world.
Another option is to center the city around a wyrmgate into an isolated wilderness. Wyrmgates do not necessarily have to represent major roads and hubs, sometimes a dragon may simply decide to limit access for one reason or another and keep the gate for their own personal use.
How does that sound?
Inlaa |
Another option is to center the city around a wyrmgate into an isolated wilderness. Wyrmgates do not necessarily have to represent major roads and hubs, sometimes a dragon may simply decide to limit access for one reason or another and keep the gate for their own personal use.
I think that's a good call.
And given everything else you've said, I think I'll go ahead and vote Dragonholme for setting. You seem enthusiastic about it, Tark, so I'll see what it's like.
So one oracle. Anyone else has a clear fix on class or role?
I'm quite honestly leaning toward the Eldritch Scoundrel at this point, or perhaps a Wizard-based or Sorcerer-based Arcane Trickster. I want some level of roguishness to this character, but I also want magic. Both routes would work fine. Wizard/Trickster would be utility-based, Sorcerer/Trickster blasting based, and Eldritch Scoundrel... weapon-based, but with magic utility.
Xanver Gamwich |
"Um, hello", waves the human. "My name is Xanver Gamwich. I'm a oracle, and..um I'm new in town. Hehe. So, I was wondering if you knew the way back to Golarion?"
Dreaming Warforged |
Ok, one oracle, one roguish arcane or arcanish rogue.
Oniwaban, are you going for a ranger type still? If so, will you be focusing on archery or melee, or both?
Mowque, are you still going for an investigator?
As for me, I'm open to suggestions! What would make a good watchman in a city beyond the realms?
Also, if I can repeat my question, is Dragonholme connected to more than one material planes? Is it connected, for example, to Golarion and Eberron at the same time?
Finally, please note that I'll be away for the long weekend, coming back Tuesday, with very limited internet during.
Inlaa |
Also, if I can repeat my question, is Dragonholme connected to more than one material planes? Is it connected, for example, to Golarion and Eberron at the same time?
Having read the document, this sounds like it's the case. It seems like there's different material planes connected here - and, in fact, sometimes those connections may be closed forever or lost in terrible circumstances. In one case a dragon's material plane became an undead hotspot and he became their master, and they invaded Dragonholme. In another case a material plane flooded Dragonholme with refugees.
Zalinar was a small plane which had little to distinguish it from the various other material planes that were connected to Dragonholme via various wyrmgates.
If that helps.
TarkXT |
So, what sort of game are we doing?
Lots of combat? Puzzles? Just curious what kind of plat we are dealing with?
I ask because I once played an investigator in a PFS game and since he was a skillmonkey, he was basically useless.
Is that going to be an issue here?
The difference between this and PFS is that PFS is s+!!e at making character oriented stories. Which by the very nature of how it started I intended this game to be.
So for those ready to put together sheets.
The game will center around a wyrmgate that leads into a deep forest wilderness where a group of hunters and fur trappers make their trade and help bring coin into the neighborhood.
The neighborhood itself has a relatively small town close knit vibe as most young people tended to escape either into the woods to eke out a living away or deeper into the city to make a life among the glitz and glamor of the city.
It will start out as a murder mystery, pc family or the pc themselves may be involved won't know yet until i get all the completed sheets together to put things into final shape.
Inlaa |
I have a quick question for when I'm designing Brianne: since Zalinar is the dominant human culture, and she'll be human, half-orc, or MAYBE halfling or tiefling if allowed, could you provide some insight on Zalinar culture?
Elsewise, I think I have an idea for this character. And I have definitely narrowed my choices down to Eldritch Scoundrel, Sorcerer/Arcane Trickster, and the Spiritualist (Haunted or Shadow Caller archetypes).
Emmett Escheus |
Dreaming Warforged here.
This is what Emmett would look like. Since Mowque could not join the game, I went with a brawler/archaeologist to try to get the old watchman.
Let me know what you think. I can always do something else for build.
Inlaa |
Brawler/Archaelogist actually sounds great. It makes you very flexible.
I'll go ahead and stat up Brianne as a Rogue/Sorcerer, I think. Some skill monkey stuff with some raw damage looks fun. I'm still debating her race, but I realized that a Halfling youth would be Tiny sized, so I'll avoid that (mostly because that just seems unnecessary).
Half-orc, tiefling, and human are what I've narrowed my choices down to. Will post crunch tonight.