I don't know the specifics of how I want to handle it yet with the gestalt/mythic dichotomy.
I have decided on my final class option. Going to go Aberrant Aegis/Blade Adept Arcanist. Going to be a really interesting combination.
I'd suggest just Gestalt and run module as is (less work for you).
I'd still suggest upping the difficulty, but removing Mythic entirely from the picture helps a bit as well, though Mythic is fun.
So what are the full character generation guidelines? Point Buy, etc?
So what are the full character generation guidelines? Point Buy, etc?
He's gonna have the actual recruitment thread up in a day or so. This was just an interest check thread.
I for one would love mythic and gestalt. Playing wrath of the righteous without mythic feels wrong somehow. Obviously the difficulty would have to be adjusted though. Scarred witch-doctor//bloodrager would be my choice.
i'm definitely interested in this idea! count my interest piqued!
I have a few ideas pouncing aroudn my head
1) Summoner (blood god disciple)/Brawler
2) Cleric (undead lord)/Grave-walker witch
3) Barbarian/Fighter
4) Barbarian/Cleric
5) Barbarian/Battlepriest
One problem that I have encountered when planning things is this: how do I keep the PCs cohesive? The good of the tribe, but the Orcs of Belzken tend to be very individualistic and tribes tend to be a loose coalition of individuals.
Do you think that it would be better if I homebrewed a setting and placed the campaign there? It would give us a greater latitude when using generalities about Orcs than is really given in base Golarion. If so, I am considering a Draenor-like world of harsh climates. That would also give me an excuse to use terrain-specific Orc breeds and have a more diverse spread of cultures among the Orcs, rather than just 'Belzken Orc culture or desert Orc culture'.
Give everyone a free family trait (with the family being the rest of the party/clan).
Whole lot easier than doing a whole other setting and it'll still give the PCs all the motivation they need to work together.
Ehhh, it's the same issue with ANY group of PCs, and the answer is likewise the same.
Why is this a cohesive group? Because the PCs all have the same ultimate goal.
Found a kingdom. Stop a demon invasion. Kill all rivals. Doesn't really matter the specifics.
The Orcs of Belkzen may be individualistic—but they fight in massive hordes, with excellent teamwork. In WotR, you're all champions of the same god, fighting for the same goal, brothers in arms on a mission to pillage and murder stronger demons than you could alone. In Kingmaker, maybe you're part of the same clan, setting out together to establish a new home for your bloodline.
Ehhh, it's the same issue with ANY group of PCs, and the answer is likewise the same.
Why is this a cohesive group? Because the PCs all have the same ultimate goal.
Found a kingdom. Stop a demon invasion. Kill all rivals. Doesn't really matter the specifics.
I agree, there doesn't need to be a real "logic". We're players. our characters get along because we say they do.
There might need to be some justification insofar as PCs of different Orc "types" since Divinitus mentioned us using some variants, but that can be hammered out on a case-by-case basis I believe.
I'm intrigued by this
The idea so far is to go for Barbarian (Primal Hunter) on one end and I'm not sure on the other end.
As for not changing sides, I'd say the reason depends on the campaign.
In case of Giantslayer it would simply be that they see Orcs serving giants as abhorrent. Orcs serve no one, others serve the Orcs.
Kingmaker is just a matter of holding on to their own land. Keep what you own.
WotR is the trickiest, especially given the involvement of the Crusade and associated factors. I'd say it at the very least would mean none of the characters can worship a demon, including Lamashtu. It could start is proving their superiority by conquering beings venerated by other, weaker Orcs. As it goes on it becomes more complicated though and the redemption angle can pretty much be thrown out the window.
Somehow I managed to miss that
In that case I truly am intrigued about what our motivation would be. Why would they leave their own lands to go fight demons in the first place?
Just one question... assuming great part of the party will be CE, what prevents them to 'change sides'?
Interested in a real answer with RP sense, not just because we do not want them to change.
That one always puzzled me. Bad guys have feelings too, you know. Just because it says CE on their character sheet doesn't mean they can't actually like people, and help them because of that. I don't really see why CE people are supposed to be predisposed towards screwing over their friends. Also, we're saving the f*!@ing world here. Accomplishing this has intristic benefit: You get to not die in mortal agony as the material plane is overrun by marauding demons.
Bam! Motivation for the bad guys to work together, and not like the other bad guys very much.
Joining the other team is equivalent to going 'Yeah, I want everyone, including me, to die.' While that might well be a flavour of chaotic evil, it's not a particularly useful one.
Aside from that, it's an RPG; there's literally nothing preventing anyone from doing anything. CG people can join the other team too, you know. It's just that when people write 'E' on their alignment field they think it's the same thing as shaving off some points of int and wisdom, for some reason.
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I don't know... for me CE are really selfish.
A agree they might have families and love their clans, but they are also orcs. Orcs were Always depicted as power-hungry, caring only for themselves.
I don't think any of them would think twice if the other side offered something like this:
Hey you that are trying to stop us, join us and we will give power to your clan! You will live like kings and rule above all the orcs!
Orcs aren't necessarily stupid, though. They've seen what the demons have in store for the world, including Golarion. The idea of someone else destroying their world could be a unifying force for the tribes. Also, if the priests said to kill the demons, they'd be more inclined to do so. Orcs are run by a cult of personality and superstition. As long as their chiefs and their shamans said kill the demons, and they had the strength to force the issue, the turned will fight.
Granted they'd lose some to the demons, what with free will and all. But, they'd keenmost of the tribes intact. A few examples of defectors could be useful, too
All tabletop games require a small amount of metagaming to keep the party together. If you're going to be That Guy, and specifically betray the party, then why the hell are you even playing? I see people use the, "but it's what my character would do" line to justify stupid crap, but in reality, we're all playing the game together, and while there's always going to be disagreements and such, there's NO reason to be a dick to your fellow players.
Keeping the party together falls on the shoulders of the players to not be dicks to each other, more than anything else. It's honestly not that hard to come up with an in-character reason to stick with your own race than to side with the extraplanar threat.
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@Odentin: Hey dude, calm down... I never said I would betray the other chars...
This is why I am asking this before we even submit the characters. Different from many players, I don't give a crap about optimized chars, I just love RP. Because of this, I want to make sure all things makes sense, so I can RP freely.
@Dragonofashandflame: Nice idea. The priests could also cast on them some kind of community spell or ritual, one that would "kill them" if they betray the mission. Another option would be that the orcs are envoys of the Devils (for the devil vs. demon war).
@Odentin: Hey dude, calm down... I never said I would betray the other chars...
This is why I am asking this before we even submit the characters. Different from many players, I don't give a crap about optimized chars, I just love RP. Because of this, I want to make sure all things makes sense, so I can RP freely.
It wasn't aimed at you, mate. It was simply an answer to Div's concerns about the party being able to stick together, and to the conversation that followed. It was not directed at anyone.
i think i want to do a Psion wizard or Psion magus
@Odentin: Hey dude, calm down... I never said I would betray the other chars...
This is why I am asking this before we even submit the characters. Different from many players, I don't give a crap about optimized chars, I just love RP. Because of this, I want to make sure all things makes sense, so I can RP freely.
@Dragonofashandflame: Nice idea. The priests could also cast on them some kind of community spell or ritual, one that would "kill them" if they betray the mission. Another option would be that the orcs are envoys of the Devils (for the devil vs. demon war).
thanks!
Alternatively, one of the players could be the group "leader". And, said leader keeps the PCs in line (offscreen or RP'd on-screen, if we like) through promises of power, battle, and wealth. And, well-timed examples, of course. Always have to have the examples to demonstrate what happens to those who displease the leaders. It works in the other evil games I've played.
An interesting idea: the 5th crusade has fallen. Now, the Worldwound has pushed to Belkzen. Some of the orcs may worship demons and may side with Deskari. Others, though, worship the traditional orc gods (who may or may not be demons), or even human powers (who are not demons). The latter two groups would probably see the demon incursion as a threat to be met and dealt with. Besides, winning the crusade could give orcs much more land, and prove their superiority to the humans.
I think there is an issue with orcs being CE. To me, how they are traditionally portrayed, with tribes, and larger groupings of tribe at certain time and working well as a unit really says NE to me rather than CE.
As to why we are fighting the demons, there are plenty of personal reasons listed above. Choose one, but I think it is important to have one to avoid future problems of motivation. Personally my character's tribe has been displaced from the tribal lands and he'll be fighting to get it back.
We do need to work out how we come together to start with but once together the mutual goals should be strong enough to stay together (a long with potential character friendships). Given mature players it won't be an issue.
I was actually going to make my orc either NE or LE. Love the idea of following a devil, so may make him a LE worshipper of Asmodeus.
i feel that a race could be any alignment, all it takes is a player willingness to play said character
Sudden thought: How do you feel about having a worshiper of the Horseman of War, Szuriel, in the campaign?
Just letting people know that I am still here. I was helping a friend power level his troll restoration shaman on WoW. Got him to level 98.
Here are the two options on the table: run WotR set in Belzken, with some changes to some of the Orc tribes, making it slightly less volatile and something which suggests that not all Orcs are completely selfish OR we can adapt an old homebrew world of mine. Either way, it will only take a few days to get the introduction ready.
i am cool with either option
Either option is fine, but really, even CE and power-hungry would know what the deal with the Worldwound is. There's no amount of stupid in the world that would make such a war-faring race as the Orcs, who would undoubtedly know well the value of false war-time promises to undermine the enemy force, would fall for the Demon's temptations of power. It's a common tactic in war, offer the weak-willed the potential for wealth and power, if only they would make sure that the guard changed shift a little bit later that night, only to turn around and make an example of that turncoat to your own minions. Especially if you're an Evil Overlord.
Besides.... What greater honor would there be for an Orc, and their tribe, than to beat some demons to squishy pulps with their own might?
... Actually, now I'm kind of having an issue with WotR. I may be mixing up Orc cultures with Golarion Orcs, but would they really be alright with destroying the Worldwound with someone's power other than their own? Then again, I suppose the "orcs aren't stupid" can apply to that as well, specially if it's their own orc gods. I always tend to play and run my orcs in a manner of "personal strength brings more honor than lent strength".
Seriously though. What would be more beneficial to the clan, than to have the sheer intimidation and prestige that comes with defeating a nearly endless incursion of demons, thus claiming all the land the demons claimed as their own? Cross them, and you will be crushed beneath their heel...
... One of these days I'm going to run what basically equates to a combo WotR/Kingmaker game.
True enough. Belzken Orcs, with slight modifications, it is for the campaign then!
an evil party for WotR?
suddenly i'm feeling very skeptical about this...
And evil WotR works. Even asmodeus wants to stop the world wound. Evil doesn't have to mean nihilistic doomsday cultist. Even if it does, the character might be upset that it's not their special brand nihilistic doomsday cult that's ending the world.
Hmmm... Though evil does have a disadvantage against evil. i.e. it's harder to get weapons that bypass DR, you don't get the build specifically targeted against demons, etc.
And since when are orcs ALWAYS CHAOTIC EVIL? We're PCs, we can be CN, NE, LE, or even CG if we damn well choose to be.
Hmmm... Though evil does have a disadvantage against evil. i.e. it's harder to get weapons that bypass DR, you don't get the build specifically targeted against demons, etc.
I get that the various spells that enhance weapons won't work, of course, but beyond that?
Shut up Maggot! Swallow your negative level like an orc!
It's not that big of a deal, really. -1 to hit, saves and losing a few hit points? I've seen worse. It's not like you've got to carry it around all the time either - plenty of stuff is satisfied by Magic & Cold Iron. Just get it out of your Handy Haversack when it comes up, and otherwise ignore it. Besides, +5 weapons get to overcome aligned damage reduction, and loads of mythic powers lets you overcome DR too.
If it's that big of a problem, just be a hipster orc and take the Beyond Morality UPA.
Yeah, you don't get to smite stuff, and that's a shame, I guess, but Hateful Rager half-orcs probably more or less make up for that.
And since when are orcs ALWAYS CHAOTIC EVIL? We're PCs, we can be CN, NE, LE, or even CG if we damn well choose to be.
very true. I'm just discussing from an all-evil perspective.
Also, will you be using Unchained classes? What about Occult?
Ever since I read Orcs: First Blood, I've thought an all-orc party sounded great. I would be interested in playing whatever role the party needed.
I just stumbled across this, and much like The Waskally before me, would be willing to play just about anything. Been wanting an all Orc game for years! Add in my desire to play WotR for so long, and I am in!
I have a couple of character ideas that have been simmering on the back burner, but I'll gladly fill in whatever is needed.
Still think Gorum would be the perfect patron for an orcish WotR game.
But I'll wait for recruitment to start!
Meanwhile, I think my character will definitely need to fight with a cane-sword, because he'll be the classy orc.
I'm interested in submitting an Orc paladin, assuming it's not an evil party.
Meanwhile, I think my character will definitely need to fight with a cane-sword, because he'll be the classy orc.
Classy orc is classy 8-D
Itching to be able to get started making a character for this. Very interested in the specifics for the different Orc types.
I agree I am excited to make a character