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I have been having this idea swirl around in my head quite a bit. Using several amines as a basis for starting a new homebrew, such as the following:
'Sword Art Online'
'.Hack//'
'Is it wrong to try to pick up girls in a dungeon?'
'Log Horizon'
The idea is that players are trapped in the game, 'Dungeon Crash'. It will be an open world for people to explore and do what you want.
Anoney want to help start building it with me?
My time is very limited but I am devoting an hour each day to PbP, so a few posts from me each night is likely the most I can devote at this time.
It would be classic D&D but with no class system. The made classes from the books give us direction but each 'player/adventurer' would have their own build and slowly developing their class. After a while special secret skills would start appearing. As you kill creatures you will find gems, you will be able to trade in the gems for upgrades for your class. Each of you will likely become very powerful and quickly, have fun doing it.
In this game I would allow anything. Though like I said above it would be more classic D&D.
General layout: the dungeon is a massive tower also leading below ground. A decent sized town has sprung up around it and has stayed for the last few years. Though with the basis of the structured game changing to a more like life who knows what will happen (like Log Horizon).
See the campaign info for character generation.
I'm interested. I think I'll put a character together for this sometime tonight.
Let's see if I remember how to dice on this forum...
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Here is an example of how you can build your character. Also look at
Bastion The Flaming Juggernaut.
That should be useful.
Also, should mental stats be representative of the character's personality outside of the game, or are they indicative of the abilities of the character they're playing in the game? Since characters can know meta information, I'd guess the former?
Well, let's see what the Die Gods have in store..
Hmm. Over average, but just barely.
ImperialSunlight, the mental stats would be more indicative of the abilities of the character. Meta information is meta.
Don't worry, you will all be able to grow much quicker than leveling up.
Sorry Arcturas, I am still going over the information again to make it all in the same direction. You won't be leveling up, merely gaining abilities. I know it will be an imperfect system and we will be working on it. If there is a level requirement we will need to adjust it to something else, like a previous feat or ability score requirement.
Oh yeah! Time to get started! :D
This system is much simpler than normal Pathfinder:
Take 2 traits, 1 feat, 4 class skills, 2+int mod. skill points, 1 weapon proficiency, light armor proficiency OR trade it for 1 more "special, cherry-pick any 3 specials from any combination of classes.
Samples of a "special":
A bonus feat
1 spell
+1d6 sneak attack
barbarian rage
NO BAB, NO bonus saves, or the stuff you get from "levelling".
During the course of playing you gain "Crystals", trade in a crystal for a special, +1 BAB, +save, +feat, +HP, +stats etc. (see Campaign Info for exact value of each). Things that scale with level normally don't, NOTHING scales, you need to buy them again to increase them f.x. you need to keep buying "sneak attack" to improve it, each purchase adds +1d6.
As a "tank" fx. I'll be buying +HP and +Con far more frequently than it would scale with levelling in regular play. When you guys might have 3 hit dice, I might be at 6, at the detriment of my BAB, specials or saves maybe. You might however choose to be at +5d6 sneak attack while only at +3 BAB.
The main difficulty is looking over every class available in all supplements and figuring out what you want to pick together to make the most interesting character possible.
Now somebody make a healer and we'll be unstoppable!
Although I think I'll wait till I know about level requirements before I actually put anything together.
For a beginning character, just don't take anything that isn't available to a lvl 1 character and you're fine. No need to try to min-max this from the very first step.
I think it's fine for the GM to just say "you can't do that right now", if your first 3 crystals were "+1d6 sneak attack", and you want to add a +1d6 sneak attack as your 4th choice.
It's a new take on a system so just roleplay and less rollplay. Pen & paper RPGs used to be a lot more "GM's discretion" than they seem to be today.
Interesting.
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suppose i could make nearly anything with these rolls.
how would you rule the gunslinger's Gunsmith special? also if one were to choose a projectile weapon how much ammunition would we start with?
been wanting to try playing a dual revolver wielding character but would take a ridiculous amount of time to get it running under normal rules. 'course i don't expect to start with revolvers.
Here is my character from the last go around.
Here is my character from the last go around.
Fantastic! I saw your character before and was hoping you'd stick with us, I like your character, are you going the route of group buffs? What did you have in mind as we advance?
Also, Wolf has asked that we link to our specials, traits, etc. on our sheet since we're all taking these from ALL OVER the place. I have to admit I'm not sure where to find all your abilities. Would be great to get a better understanding of your capabilities.
Oooh! Oooh! I wanna play!
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Class Idea:
Bomb alchemist ability
Ability to cast one spell three times a day
Arcane Gun spellslinger ability (this ability won't give me spells, just the ability to cast the one spell three times a day through my gun).
P.S. The Rynjin class builder won't let me duplicate. I'll try it on chrome
Won't work on chrome either.
:(
I deleted html view from the end of the url, and it worked.
I would like to play! Is 3pp allowed?
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Never mind, decided to withdraw my interest. Hope the rest of you guys have fun!
Here is my character from the last go around.Fantastic! I saw your character before and was hoping you'd stick with us, I like your character, are you going the route of group buffs? What did you have in mind as we advance?
Also, Wolf has asked that we link to our specials, traits, etc. on our sheet since we're all taking these from ALL OVER the place. I have to admit I'm not sure where to find all your abilities. Would be great to get a better understanding of your capabilities.
Yup, what Bastion said.
Olaf, we will be based from Pathfinder. Look at any class table, look under special, there are lots to choose from. The real question is what do you want to play? This game is really not built for full casters but if someone wants to do it I have a plan. Your level for casting is double your highest spell you are able to cast. The next purchase would be 5 blue crystals for 2nd level casting according to your class. Then you will have to find out in game what the next requirement will be. It starts like the spells of your chosen class.
If you buy Rage as one of your specials, you gain it as a 1st level barbarian. If you want to be able to rage more you buy it with crystals. You will learn quickly how to buy them in game.
At creation you can get any special as long as it is below level 5. So to my limited knowledge of the paladin class, I believe you can buy those four specials at creation. Does the special have a normal requirement? Perhaps having a high enough charisma score, then yes it has that kind of prerequisite. Update - Holy Champion would not work at creation and would not be open until you created or found a white crystal.
Here is my character from the last go around.Fantastic! I saw your character before and was hoping you'd stick with us, I like your character, are you going the route of group buffs? What did you have in mind as we advance?
Also, Wolf has asked that we link to our specials, traits, etc. on our sheet since we're all taking these from ALL OVER the place. I have to admit I'm not sure where to find all your abilities. Would be great to get a better understanding of your capabilities.
Johton is pretty good at giving orders and thinking tactically. between bardic performance and tactician, I can give out decent bonuses, and I took a power from a prestige class (specifically the student of war prestige class) which lets me swap my dex for my int for ac.
Legoguy, bomb (check), what spell?, where are you getting the arcane spells linger from? If you want the gun to cast only lightning bolt 3/day I would be fine with that as one special, then again what do you envision down the road?
Yumeakira, gunsmith would work just as it says. The projectile ammunition amount likely would be dependent on the gun. 50 rounds should be good. Though I would be fine with you having a magical ammo box or an ability that produces ammo, this of course would take a full round and the rounds would only be active for a short period of time. Of course with the gunsmith feat you can make rounds.
So start with a single pistol and 50 bullets and powder (or paper cartridges?).
would i be proficient with it? firearms under normal golarion setting are exotic.
torn between getting light armor or trading it for Monk AC.
This sounds really cool! Would replacement features from Archetypes count as class specials?
I can work with that, brainstorming ahoy!
This sounds really cool! Would replacement features from Archetypes count as class specials?
Yes, I believe they would.
So start with a single pistol and 50 bullets and powder (or paper cartridges?).
would i be proficient with it? firearms under normal golarion setting are exotic.torn between getting light armor or trading it for Monk AC.
Yes either of those. You would be proficient with the first weapon you use. You would be proficient with pistol, this would be an exception for exotic weapon. You can use crystals to gain more proficiencies or slowly learn them.
Your choice about the armor.
Wednesday will be my first deadline. Players please get your avatars worked on and ready for inspection on Wednesday.
Now that I think about it, I might go with a different class. let me play around with the character creation rules (which are somewhat different than the last time around) and I'll get something posted.
I'll go ahead and roll for new stats as well.
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Fine and fine, Vrog. I am glad you are still on board. Ask if you have any questions.
How are we handling level based effects? (i.e. some abilities (like sneak attack) scale based on character level).
Arcturas Advent here, and this is my submission. I ended up going with the broad side of the barn build that has to take a nap for a couple of minutes after every fight.
@Vrog check out what I wrote before about levelling and scaling
Things that scale with level normally don't, NOTHING scales, you need to buy them again to increase them f.x. you need to keep buying "sneak attack" to improve it, each purchase adds +1d6.
As a "tank" fx. I'll be buying +HP and +Con far more frequently than it would scale with levelling in regular play. When you guys might have 3 hit dice, I might be at 6, at the detriment of my BAB, specials or saves maybe. You might however choose to be at +5d6 sneak attack while only at +3 BAB.
@Illian
hahaha wow I thought I was pushing it with Ifrit, but I guess a rampaging werebat is the next best thing since we don't have manbearpig.Do you really want Bloodrage AND Rage? You know they don't automatically scale with "level", you'll need to buy Rage again to use it for 2 extra rounds, then buy Bloodrage again to use that for 2 extra rounds.
I'm also going to make a wild guess and say GM Wolf will not allow "double rage", simply because you are either "raged" or not. Furthermore, the Bloodrage special states I find it best not to "rollplay", but rather "roleplay" as the GM's word is law, if you roll a 20 and he says you miss, then you miss, end of discussion, he's not a moderator for a system, he's the GAME MASTER.
Find something you would enjoy playing, cobble it together out of any classes you can find. But it is rarely a good idea to try to "game the system" when the GM can just say "that doesn't make sense to me, I'm not going to allow it". I'm not saying a werebat unarmed rager is a bad idea though, you might wanna tweak it for less min-maxing.
Legoguy, bomb (check), what spell?, where are you getting the arcane spells linger from? If you want the gun to cast only lightning bolt 3/day I would be fine with that as one special, then again what do you envision down the road?
Arcane Gun doesn't grant spells by itself, so I have to spend another special to buy one spell. (like lightning bolt 3/day).
) then I could only cast lightning bolt 3/day. Sorry if that was unclear.Special spending during character creation(might change)
Bomb
Lightning bolt 3/day
Arcane Gun
Yes, but that doesn't explain how you're buying things, or how much a purchase gives you.
Suppose I buy smite evil. Do I buy it again to make it scale? How much does it scale by? 1lvl? Next time I get smite evil? What about the toughness feat? Do I buy it again for +1hp?
Each purchase of it scales it by 1 level, as in my sample of buying Sneak Attack repeatedly. If you buy Smite Evil 6 times, you're using it as lvl 6. If something is underpowered the GM would just adjust it.
I don't think there's any confusion about the Toughness feat.
The Toughness feat says "You gain +3 hit points. For every Hit Die you possess beyond 3, you gain an additional +1 hit point."
It doesn't talk about level, you start with 1 hit dice, you can buy +hit dice as you gain crystals. I think this one is self-explanatory.
Wolf I'm still here. I'm still writing up my avatar but I'm almost done.
That wasn't what you said the last time around, though.
Which is why I'm confused. So far, different rules for it has been suggested, with no clear theme or guideline for what's right and what's not.
During the course of playing you gain "Crystals", trade in a crystal for a special, +1 BAB, +save, +feat, +HP, +stats etc. (see Campaign Info for exact value of each). Things that scale with level normally don't, NOTHING scales, you need to buy them again to increase them f.x. you need to keep buying "sneak attack" to improve it, each purchase adds +1d6.
I don't see any contradictory examples or statements, maybe it's just because I wrote it. Please elaborate on what is confusing you so I can fix it in the text for others or make it clear for you.
The first one said that each upgrade would give +1d6 damage on sneak attack. Then the next post said that each upgrade would give you +1 level for the purpose of the ability.
Sneak attack is gained at odd levels, not every level, so the two contradict.
If we follow option 1, buying sneak attack 4 times would get you 4d6 sneak attack. If we follow option 2, buying sneak attack 4 times would let you sneak attack as a 4th level rogue, which is 2d6 sneak attack.
If we use option 1, we also don't know what the characters 'effective rogue level' is supposed to be for stuff like improved uncanny dodge.
As for something like improved uncanny dodge itself, which is entirely dependant on effectiveit seems very unfair that someone would have to buy it multiple times for it to work.
It also seems strange that you'd take something like Cure Serious Wounds multiple times, just to gain extra caster levels.
AH! I see the confusion here, thanks for clarifying this for me.
Each purchase of Sneak Attack improves it by +1d6.
Each purchase of an ability will enhance it to the next "step".
You would have to buy Uncanny Dodge a second time to get Improved Uncanny Dodge. But about the "4 levels higher" part, that would just be GMs discretion whether the individual is that much more powerful than the "Rogue".
I think you're getting caught too much up in the nuts and bolts mechanics of the system. This is all experimental. This is a story where the PCs are the protagonists, the GM will not make it too hard for us to succeed in our tasks nor too easy. The exact +3 or +7 of the matter is inconsequential to the story.
I've got to admit I'm not 100% sure about the spell side. He'll make sure you're not s+$+, if you are, he'll tweak it till you're not. You can also assume that if you're way more powerful than the party through some min-maxing he'll adjust for that as well and tweak you till you're not.
@Illian
hahaha wow I thought I was pushing it with Ifrit, but I guess a rampaging werebat is the next best thing since we don't have manbearpig.Do you really want Bloodrage AND Rage? You know they don't automatically scale with "level", you'll need to buy Rage again to use it for 2 extra rounds, then buy Bloodrage again to use that for 2 extra rounds.
I'm also going to make a wild guess and say GM Wolf will not allow "double rage", simply because you are either "raged" or not. Furthermore, the Bloodrage special states I find it best not to "rollplay", but rather "roleplay" as the GM's word is law, if you roll a 20 and he says you miss, then you miss, end of discussion, he's not a moderator for a system, he's the GAME MASTER.
Find something you would enjoy playing, cobble it together out of any classes you can find. But it is rarely a good idea to try to "game the system" when the GM can just say "that doesn't make sense to me, I'm not going to allow it". I'm not saying a werebat unarmed rager is a bad idea though, you might wanna tweak it for less min-maxing.
Heh, I had a feeling taking both rage and bloodrage would be controversial, considering before unchained rules they wouldn't stack since they were both morale bonuses. Either way, I didn't really think this was minmaxing because it's not the optimal way for me to do what I wanted to do, for instance I could have taken enlarge person as an SLA instead of Brute Form from the Vigilante Brute archetype. That way I would have actually got size bonuses, not had to potentially attack my allies and not become fatigued after every use. Not to mention I would have enlarged weapons that way which would free up a slot to use on something more useful than Unarmed Strike, which I would probably have put into something like Jotun Grip because nothing says nice to meet you like dual wielding large greatswords. Then couple that with Ragebred Skinwalker which gets multiple feats that synergize with rage...
As it is though I don't have any armour proficiency leaving me with 12 AC when not raging and an unmissable 6 AC when I am, then on top of that I take three stacks of exhaustion (therefore just knocking me out completely) when I stop raging. Then there's also the fact that I have to increase rage and bloodrage separately, like you mentioned. So if anything I think it's more maxminned than minmaxed. I mean, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a bad build and I will probably just die off in the first fight due to being unmissable. But yeah, I'll definately change one of the rages if I need to, it was never my intention to build something minmaxy/unfun. My main goal was to build something hillarious that left half the party scratching their head and the other half asking if I was insane. Plus if I got rid of one of the rages I could start working on White Hair sooner so that eventually I'll be able to grab/constrict people and fly around with them then chuck them out of the sky.
I think some people might not be getting the spirit of this. This isn't about RULEplaying, it's about roleplaying.
You are getting the opportunity to mix and match anything you want. Time for that dual-pistol-wielding-lightning-shooting-no-armor-bullet-dodgeing guy you always wanted to make ;)...the GM will give you a magical box so you never run out of bullets even, because running out of bullets wouldn't make the game fun
Figure out "who" you want to be,"what" you want to do and "how".
Not "I want to get +2 BAB every level, at least twice the normal fort save of equal level character with maxed intimidate to give enemies at -2 attack, then stack enough..."
I wanted to make an MMO-style tank, I wanted to wear big armor, carry a big shield, be hard to kill and protect my party. I wanted a big focus on my shield, armor second. I would also need some ways to keep enemies off my party..
For this I chose some abilities from Sacred Shield to give a party buff and from Unbreakable to keep me "hard to kill". I get some stuff from other paladin classes to fill in gaps where I feel I'm missing with time as well as from Shielded Fighter . As I read through races I thought an Ifrit would be cool, big horns and bronze colored. The affinity to fire had lead to blacksmithing and the blacksmithing to the huge armor choices. IRL he would be someone that liked to protect people, but couldn't in real life so he chose to do it in video games.
Whether these exact abilities give me the highest bonuses I need, I don't know. I do know GM Wolf doesn't want to kill us so he won't send anything at us we can't overcome.
Heh, I had a feeling taking both rage and bloodrage would be controversial, considering before unchained rules they wouldn't stack since they were both morale bonuses. Either way, I didn't really think this was minmaxing because it's not the optimal way for me to do what I wanted to do, for instance I could have taken enlarge person as an SLA instead of Brute Form from the Vigilante Brute archetype. That way I would have actually got size bonuses, not had to potentially attack my allies and not become fatigued after every use. Not to mention I would have enlarged weapons that way which would free up a slot to use on something more useful than Unarmed Strike, which I would probably have put into something like...
Ok sorry for this I thought you weren't clear on the leveling or buying each rage. My bad.
But as you said, you have 7 rounds of fighting in you at Ac 6, then you pass out and will most likely be killed if you weren't already. Its an interesting concept on paper, but do you think this character will be enjoyable to play? Do you think there's a chance he'll live for more than 3-4 combat encounters?
Ok sorry for this I thought you weren't clear on the leveling or buying each rage. My bad.
But as you said, you have 7 rounds of fighting in you at Ac 6, then you pass out and will most likely be killed if you weren't already. Its an interesting concept on paper, but do you think this character will be enjoyable to play? Do you think there's a chance he'll live for more than 3-4 combat encounters?
My concept is a first time MMO player who has no idea what they are doing so I thought it was appropriate to play someone who started out useless most of the time but then occassionally flipped out and started bashing faces in. But yeah, using both rages on every encounter is not a good idea, I don't see myself doing that till either I have enough rounds of rage that I can make it last, or we are up against a single target boss type enemy that we need to burn down.
Although I do hope I don't die right off the bat, I would not be surprised if it happened. So if (and when) that happens, whelp.. Just have to hope I had fun up till then.
Yumeakira here.
should we be concerned with encumbrance?
should i start with the infinite ammo box or will that be like a quest item or such? more likely quest item...
should i leave Deeds and Monk AC at the level 1 versions or bring them up to the level 5 equivalents?
i'm guessing the clothing we start with would be like a tunic, pants, and boots. or did we get to choose at avatar creation?
also, how much food do we start with, a week's rations?
If you pick the Alchemist discovery ability as a special, do you gain one discovery that you qualify for?
Yumeakira here.
should we be concerned with encumbrance?
should i start with the infinite ammo box or will that be like a quest item or such? more likely quest item...
should i leave Deeds and Monk AC at the level 1 versions or bring them up to the level 5 equivalents?
i'm guessing the clothing we start with would be like a tunic, pants, and boots. or did we get to choose at avatar creation?
also, how much food do we start with, a week's rations?
I should hope you won't have to deal with encumberance early on. Now later if you haven't invested in bags of some sort you likely will have problems.
The infinite ammo box will be a quest.
Deeds and Monk AC, let alone any special should. You should not have more than one special at 5th level or above 1st level for that matter.
You get to choose what you look like, including your clothing.
Food? You need food!? Outrageous!!! Lol! Yes you can have 5 rations at the start.
Legoguy, yes it would make sense to have one discovery that you qualify for.
What about money?