I like more players ^^
Problem is the waiting for the players...especially given dunebugg's '11 point buy, but 20 points if you write up 9 secondary characters in addition to your own' approach.
Which is not to say that in and of itself that approach is bad (indeed, I happen to really like it). Its just 'to fill a spot for someone who dropped out leaving us all in limbo in the meanwhile' it is somewhat of a slow method to use as a lot of detail is required.
The other approach, of course, is to drop the difficulty of any encounters we might stumble across and/or spec our characters a bit more...ideally. I.e. optimize party efficiency, not nifty character ideas. For instance, I can go more 'combat' Druid instead of this nifty caster thing I've got going.
we have 5 people left and role as below,
witch - that heals and control as well if I'm correct?
wizard - Controller(Later Summoner&Controller)
druid - Caster/Archer (Updated*)
paladin - combat style unknown, the social guy (so far... i think)
ranger - combat style unknown too, probably sneak melee? with that starknife? or range?
Do we need someone else? This campaign should be a 4-player campaign anyway right? I don't mind if we could get another player, but I'm happy with the number we have now. Or what Amoonrann said, change a few of our characters to make this group work better, e.g. turning her caster into melee.
Yes let's have more point to buy with =p.
Not thinking of switching so much as...I'm willing to go more combatty if we feel like we're lacking in that department.
As to how I planned on playing Moony, basically I was planning on going caster/archer. Rotating levels between Druid and Monk until I get Monk 3 (Zen Archery [use WIS Mod for my attack rolls with ranged weapons]). In theory, I'll have epic spell DCs and to hit chance with bows.
Interesting. Well I guess we have a range too, so I don't see much problem with how we are right now.
Sorry Roga but I think you would be pretty tanky, high ac, extremely good hit die. Should do some decent damage too right?
We'll soon have a zen Archer, flurrry of arrows - painful and mostly hit, good consistent damage.
And me and Stellan would be stopping people approaching Roga, and control as much as our spells permit.
and we have Triaxus for damage output I believe? two weapon fighting with starknife?
Sorry to see you go Caelus, best of luck with things!
For character build, my initial build plan was two weapon fighting, with a touch of the switch hitter build (opening volley, power attack, the like). I was also considering a dip in cleric before going into the sphere-walker PC, as we didn't have a direct healer/support type character, and figure we'd do pretty well with four quasi's in myself, Moony, Roga and Stellan. That's still my preferred direction (pretty solid melee capacity with 8th level cleric casting abilities), but if our concern is having a more solid frontline, I can stick to straight ranger, perhaps with a touch of horizon walker.
As far as my view on replacement players goes, there were several others who didn't make the initial selection. Would sending inquiries to them be a option?
I will attempt to find another player. My goal like I stated is to try and use the 6 player Kingmaker conversion. Truth be told you are all guinea pigs so that I get a feel for the campaign before I run it for my local group! I will start a new recruit thread as I think last time most people didn't read past "11 point buy!" my test to check reading comprehension was both a resounding success AND failure :P
The players I declined were, coincidentally, all archers I believe
Stellan, mechanically is built as a utility/support character. As to the thinking behind him:
1) A year ago I was reading up on the Winter Witches of Irrisen and wondered what would happen if one had a son. This was the basis of Stellan's background.
2) I also have wondered for a while if an effective arcane healer could be built in Pathfinder, healer bard builds did not seem that useful to me, this is one of my attempts. Of course a witch of healing would be better for that but not as interesting.
3)Kingmaker is a exploration/wilderness oriented scenario so wilderness skills are useful, could a non-rogue/marital class function well as a forester?
4)Put all those thoughts together, add dunebugg's requirements, turn on the blender, out came Stellan.
While I intend to go witch all the way; a dip into ranger, rogue, or divine classes is not out of concept.
For right now, I'm playing Stellan as a healer with not great spell casting, (only two 1st level spells/ day right now.) He's stealthy, good enough in the woods to not need babying, strong and quick enough to fight, if he must. Being limited to simple weapons restricts his full effectiveness as he levels up he will continue to fall well behind the warriors in marital ability, he's not a "Mary Sue".
Healer/controller - Jack of all trade, master of none. That's not a bad summery but Stellan will never equal a wizard as a controller.
Hope this is helpful, especially to dunebugg, you're experimenting with Kingmaker and Pathfinder and so am I, and for the same reason.
Well...the thing about sword and board is that...you aren't really a tank because tanking doesn't really exist in tabletop type games. Basically, you just get lesser damage output and a higher AC for that one guy you're smacking down. You can't generate 'aggro' to keep them hitting you as opposed to chasing everyone else.
As I understand tanking in these sorts of games, you want to maximize your threat range...basically, you want to make the bad guys have no choice but to attack you or suffer AoOs for passing by you to get to us squishier types. So reach weapons, and feats that increase threat range and AoO stuff would be the closest to 'tanking' anyone can really get.
If you don't wanna go that route, I'd say use your 2-handed weapon of choice. Or if you now really want a shield (though you really don't need one, imo), grab the bastard sword or something like it (it can be wielded as either a 1 or 2 handed weapon) so that you can deal the hurt when you need to, and boost your AC when you need to do that instead.
I would really like to keep my build plan of a damage paladin with a few additional tricks (extra lay on hands etc.) and I think the slightly lower Ac and greater damage would be better than sword and board as I don't have the fighter option of going two weapon fighting with shield due to lack of feats.
@ Dunebugg, I can see in the new recruitment thread that you have me marked down as sword and board + mounted. Currently Roga only has a greatsword and the mount is simply for transport, I don't intent to go full mounted, might pick up a feat or two though. As we discussed above I could switch to sword and board but would prefer to stay two-handed.
In spirit of piling on (Sorry dunebugg :p) Stellan has no debuffs at all. Maybe someday.
Arbitrary combat rating. Only static magic bonus counted (like mage armor).
- Def with mage armor-Healer(Heal hex, stabilize),Controller(sleep).
- (Star)Knife thrower/knife fighter, low damage, not optimized for combat.
- Limited weapon choice. Looks like penalties taken for no metal.
- Two-handed weapon fighter, High offense. Strong melee. Front-line fighter.
- Def with mage armor- Hopeless melee, Low strength hurts ranged. Power in spells, not weapons.
This list surprised me, I thought Stelllan would be a better warrior only over Elros. Instead he's barely worse than Triaxus.
@dunebugg:Not trying to step on you:) just (over) analyzed the group to get a better feel for it and this is what I came up with. Feel free, anyone, to challenge my assessments.
Sorry Roga, that was the feeling that I was getting from your character after browsing your profile/stats.
Stellan - all witches eventually pick up some debuffs so that was the category I tossed you in. Evil Eye/cackle is something that every witch picks up that I've seen for the great utility it offers.
@"Tanking"... It's been my experience that whoever is on the frontline generally will be the biggest threat.. Unless the enemy is really really smart and can shut down the melee and move to the back to pick on all the squishies and archers.
I will have a replacement by tomorrow/wednesday so... Let's just move on for now. They can come in after whatever happens if needed.
Proceed with the game!!
Okay guys! I want your input on addition(s) to the party. I'm willing to accept 1-3 more players. So head over to the new recruit thread (which has surprisingly more apps than we did originally LOL) and come back here to tell me who your favorites are so far :)
Calculations done as:
A) Offensive: Total to hit for the major weapon, +1 for any die up to 1d4, +1/damage bonus; data all taken from the character sheets, calculated once for melee and once for ranged.
B) Defensive: Armor class bonus + 1 for every 3 full hit points (no rounding! 8 gives two point, nine 3 points). I counted mage armor for the mages, I might have overlooked something on the others.
This is very crude and might not work completely but it did force me to closely look at everyone's equipment and various bonus. I think I have the order right and I was bit surprised by the results, we are not, yet, strong in ranged attacks and our equipment choices were flavorful but not optimal.
I hope I did the math right and this was just to get a better grip on our combat strengths and weaknesses in a systematic way.
Too tired to comment on the candidates, I'll look in the morning and comment then.
If any of you potential people are reading this...its nothing personal if I don't vote for you/acknowledge your existence. I'm just thinking what'd be best for the group.
Grendolynn, the Trapper because of DD (yes traps are rare and far between, but its better to have someone that can deal with them as opposed to all of us exploding. Also, strong meleeist) and also because he looks like a strong candidate for melee.
Rufus Fitzroi, the Cavalier. We really don't have anyone in the buffs department. My spells are pretty much all gonna be battlefield control/nukes (can't ranged touch for spit with a 12 DEX). Druids really don't get any of the major 'buffs' a cleric would get (bless, etc). If he'd fix his stats (no offense if your reading this), I'd really have no issues with 'im*.
I think we really only need one person to fill in for Caelus. Two is really pushing it, imo. We've got a good group and we should be able to handle stuff if we don't rush in and start punching everything we see. We're already tripping over each other in the posts trying to coordinate 6 people posting at different times unbeknownst to everyone else (7 including the GM). Trying to coordinate 8 players and a GM? Not happening, imo.
I would like to have someone who is capable to stand in melee with me.
The candidats for that would be:
Garrick Thorne - Is still missing background, and I would like to see that. Stats suggest a sword and board ranger, but I might be mistaking.
Rufus Fitzroi - As Amoonrann wrote here and Dunebugg in the recruitment thred the stats are perhaps in character, but very suboptimal, I would suggest that the 3 13's in dex,con and int and the 11 in wis is combined to two 14 or a 14, 13 and a 12 placed where the player wishes.
Grendolynn - a great submission, the strongest mechanical choice and an intesresting background.
I would go with either Grendolynn or Rufus if he moved his stats round a little. I am supporting Grendolynn atm.
I agree with Amoonrann that one new player would be best perhaps 2.
@Roga+Dunebugg: As far as melee partners, Triaxus is far more melee than ranged in intent; the build idea is to make ranged attacks only before closing the distance, which is what PBS and eventually opening volley is meant to aid with. So I'll be up front by the second turn in most fights, if not sooner. Sorry if my feat choice made for any confusion.
Review of the candidates. Nothing personal here just an opinion based on party needs.
Jon Silver - withdrawn.
Rhual Ghaan - interesting concept - but his abilities doesn't cover anything we need.
Aka the Many- Great concept and backstory but he's a Druid, we have one.
Kimefe, Powerful healer, well-constructed character. This has my caster vote if we want another caster.
Maddoc's Andrea- Off beat concept- long term problems with her deception. I like the concept but not for us.
Garrick Thorne- Nice clean character, well -organized, needs backstory- is a ranger we have one so he should be judged on melee power which is good.
Gjurd(Grimblade)Kovac-Strong melee, solid backstory, tiefling. Good direct replacement for Caelus.
Rufus Frizroi-Mobile melee with buffs, good backstory and expression. Good fighter, helpful in other ways. Another good replacement for Caelus.
Grendolynn-Strong Concept Excellent writing. Hobgoblin, Good fighter with ranger abilities that step less on Triaxus. Interesting as to how to work her in but once solved, great! Has my melee vote.
Hugo Ironfist-OK concept-Backstory? - This character walks all over Elros's abilities. Not needed.
Recommendations: For choosing one character: Grenndolynn. For second character if caster wanted: Kimefe. For third: Rufus for mobile melee, Gjurd or Garrick for stand with Roga. Also would like to see Garrick's backstory, may change mind. Yes I'm undecided on the third slot. I can be persuaded. Small bills only, please. :)
Top recommend: As Amoonrann said, more than six and you have too many balls in the air at once. Scheduling would get worse. The most outstanding and immediately useful character is Grendolynn.
Short version recommend: Choose one, Choose Grendolynn.
Quick chime in on applicants (missed your request for input Dunebugg):
I largely agree with Stellan's call on the best overall choice being Grendolynn, giving us three frontliners (Roga, Grenndolynn, and myself) and three backliners (moony, stellan, elros). For potential 2 and 3 slots, I find myself leaning toward Kimefe and Bridgette: Kimefe for roles stated by Stellan, and Bridgette as a good mobility attacker, without Rufus' dependancy on mounted combat and charging. That said, concerns about party size seem legit; I just really like both Kimefe's and Bridgette's concepts. *Throws two copper pieces*
It seems that the party is leaning toward Grendolynn, which is a great pick. He's excitingly fun to play with (he's actually my rival in the game he and I are in) and a great RPer. I will let him know to come on over.
If the party does want a 7th player, I will pick up Kimefe. If we get 3 yes' to a 7th, I will extend her player an invitation as well. So just let me know if you want to grab her as well.
@Triaxus: Yeah, didn't really see that you'd be playing a switch hitter. It's a great way to go, just thought you were another archer applying :P But the 3/3 melee/ranged mix is a good one.
@dunebugg OK that's the situation; it did not appear that way to me. Point - you are placing a heavy penalty on trying diplomacy with known hostile forces, Roga went in knowing the bandits were dangerous and might attack yet waiting for a response killed his ability to defend himself. Stellan's a good guy but not stupid, if diplomacy comes at a serious risk of getting killed just for trying, he's not going to be too keen on it. Put it another way; you've played with other groups saying that:
In my group we call this situation "Diplomacy has failed!"
So how do you or your other players offer terms to enemies and still stay alive, or do they simply take the hit?This boils down to a alignment discussion and a ethics debate. When you have time, please go over it, so I know how to act in the future. Remember, I do not know you or your play style, it going to take some time to work out differences in approach. This isn't about who's right (The DM is, always) but about being on the same page as to expectations.
Vote: no on seventh player; if outvoted on that issue, I vote for Kimefe.
Stellan: For most groups I am certainly willing to allow diplomacy to work. But, not all situations can be talked out of. When the book gives me detailed notes on an NPC behaviour, I try to stick to that. These particular bandits are not exactly the chatty type. If you remember what Svetlana detailed, they are quite cruel as well.
So in short, diplomacy WON'T always fail. But don't always expect to be able to talk your way out of a battle either.
@dunebugg - I don mirror sunglasses and adopt a southern drawl: What we have here is a failure to communicate. Your answer is great except it has nothing to do with what I asked. Roga's attempt at diplomacy made him place himself at great risk, he basically made a hostage of himself to the bad guys, depending on their (absent) good will. That's OK if that how you want it to be but I'm not likely to allow Stellan, good guy he is suppose to be, to be that dumb. He'll conduct negotiations with bad guys from cover with prepared spells/weapons and a held action from now on. Is that the behavior you want from your players? You're not paranoid if they are out to get you after all. Another way of looking at it, does being good require you to be extremely stupid?
Please do not interpret this as an attack, I'm just trying to figure out what you want from us. Punish certain behaviors, get less of them, reward others, get more.
More crits on Happs the better!
Rogas attempt at diplomacy and the way he attempted it were the choice of his character. I don't expect you to walk up to bad guys and do that.. No, being good does not require being "stupid". I would never conduct a negotiation where I was at great risk. Especially at level 1. :P
What would I personally have done? Closed the gates while they went to the stables and get the party ready as a group. And THEN try to diplomacy. When the whole team is assembled. A lone paladin and a wizard vs 5 bandits.. Not very intimidating in the "surrender or die" department lol.
Okay, hello everybody! I'm here. I'm about to head to work in a few minutes, but I only have to teach a few classes tonight so I'll check back in like 5 hours or so. I need to read the whole gameplay thread to catch up to where we are now. I'll post again when I'm done with that.
Edi: Oh yeah, thanks for picking me! :)
Wow. That was a lot of reading. All caught up now, not sure how you want to handle me showing up Dunebugg. I assume that Grendolynn was riding towards Oleg's on Bella.
--Brief aside for a question, does the horse that the Pioneer trait gives you have war training? I was thinking mine might because it was given to me by Donnovan, who served in the military. But not wanting to be presumptuous I put her on my sheet as a normal Heavy Horse.
So yeah, I spend a freakish, possibly unhealthy, :P amount of time PBPing on these boards, so I'm good to go whenever. Just let me know.
@Elros - Hehe. Dunno, guess that's up to you. You'll find out how she'd react when you meet her.
@Roga - Yeah, one of his characters was in my party in the middle of a battle in a different game. Sh*t happens I guess, but I can verify he quit everything not just here.