hogarth's 18th Level Playtest (Inactive)
Game Master hogarth

Sleepy Monk wrote:

Hogarth, quick question. Abundant Step says it acts like dimension door. Does that include, by your understanding, the ability to take others with him?

I will say "no", although you could make a strong argument that it should be allowed.

I'm in the same camp - I think it should be a self-only kind of power, despite the description.

I would say it's self-only also...

Enlarge person, Mass for those who want it. (if that's not a full round action, then she'll use a standard action to activate her armor...

Commands an Avoral to cast see invisibility on her.

Drinks the potion of pro-energy (cold)

is Enlarged now.

Making his Axe and Shield, large weapons. (base 2d8 axe, 3d6 for the shield bites, d8 slam)

I would say it's self-only also...

Enlarge person, Mass for those who want it. (if that's not a full round action, then she'll use a standard action to activate her armor...

Commands an Avoral to cast see invisibility on her.

Mass Enlarge Person is a full round casting time.

See Invsibility is a personal range spell and thus can't be cast on Elmora.

It doesn't matter what you roll for Perception -- my ruling is that it's a DC 0 Perception check to hear the spellcasting, and at this distance you automatically succeed. Likewise, you can't fail the Spellcraft check to ID the spells.

I'm not looking for the spells, I'm watching for the dragon and giant!

And no enlarge for me, thanks. I need my AC as high as I can get!

I'm not looking for the spells, I'm watching for the dragon and giant!

There's a a bunch of pillars blocking your view of box #3 (assuming that's where the enemies are).

No enlarging for me, thanks.

When she lands, Tialla whispers, "Directly across the room from us, and spellcasting, unless I miss my guess. Also, invisible. Anyone got a fix for that?"

Black-Eyed Bartimus wrote:

I'm not looking for the spells, I'm watching for the dragon and giant!

There's a a bunch of pillars blocking your view of box #3 (assuming that's where the enemies are).

I'm not assuming, Bart's watching EVERYWHERE. Scanning the skies, watching the ground, keeping his gaze watchful and moving fast. This is a dragon, after all: you don't assume anything.

hogarth wrote:

It doesn't matter what you roll for Perception -- my ruling is that it's a DC 0 Perception check to hear the spellcasting, and at this distance you automatically succeed. Likewise, you can't fail the Spellcraft check to ID the spells.

I'm not looking for the spells, I'm watching for the dragon and giant!

And no enlarge for me, thanks. I need my AC as high as I can get!

Well I could always baleful polymorph you into a bacteria...that would be a huge AC!

Elmora will use a free action to tell one of the Avorals to cast see invis on Tialla next round.

I also have some other spells to counter those spells.

Elmora will use a free action to tell one of the Avorals to cast see invis on Tialla next round.

Again, See Invisibility is a personal range spell; you can't cast it on someone else.

Huh, great...see I saw that the Avoral had True Seeing as a SQ...and See Invisibility as a spell-like ability...and without my books, I made a bad assumption...oops....cuz why would they need see inis if they have Tree Seeing as a SQ....

I'm planning on updating this tonight. Stay tuned...

Round 3:
The avorals cast See Invisibility on themselves and most of the party buffs while Sleepy strikes out on his own.

The intrepid monk hears a deep, sinister chuckle.

"So, little human," it says, "you wish to fight me alone? As you like it."

The monk hears the quiet beating of wings as an unseen presence approaches him. Like a bolt of lightning, a white serpentine neck appears, and a dragon's mouth slams him to the floor! (CMB check 61 -- natural 20 automatically succeeds)

While he lies on his back, an axe comes whistling down on him... (49 vs. flatfooted, prone AC 31 = hit). A bolt of pain streaks through his body as he sees the wicked frost giant who wielded the mighty weapon. (37 damage + 1 cold damage) The blade of the axe is coated with a foul toxin, but the monk laughs -- the venom is as impotent as mother's milk to a mighty martial artist such as he.

Now the wyrm and rider are visible to Sleepy, although the dragon's body is multiplied 6-fold by illusion (mirror images).

Status:
Sleepy: down 38 hp, prone

Current map (running out of pins...)

Round 3:

...
Status:
Sleepy: down 38 hp, prone

I'm not sure how high the dragon and giant are, but I'm assuming the dragon is on the ground and that should put the giant about 20' up. Sleepy will fly up to the giant, stunning fist attack, and move again, hopefully out of his range.

Swift Action: spend 1 ki point for +20' movement - should give him fly 80'.
Move Action: Fly up to giant.
Standard Action: attack with stunning fist (Fort save DC 25):
Stunning Fist Attack (1d20+25=38)
Fly away up to movement allowance (spring attack)
Use Acrobatics to avoid AoO's. My count might be off, but I think there might be 4 AoOs from all of the movement:
Acrobatics Rolls to avoid AoOs (1d20+29=31, 1d20+29=31, 1d20+29=48, 1d20+29=35)

The monk's stunning fist and quivering palm are absolutely useless at this level. Jarl's base fort save is +25, and so is the fort save (10+ half level + wis bonus). Unless the monk has a monstrous wisdom, these two abilities are will have no effect in high-level play.

The monk's stunning fist and quivering palm are absolutely useless at this level. Jarl's base fort save is +25, and so is the fort save (10+ half level + wis bonus). Unless the monk has a monstrous wisdom, these two abilities are will have no effect in high-level play.

You're supposed to be stunning wizards, I think.

I'm about to 'port toward Sleepy - anyone want to come along? I can take two Medium or one Large ally.

Sleepy Monk wrote:

The monk's stunning fist and quivering palm are absolutely useless at this level. Jarl's base fort save is +25, and so is the fort save (10+ half level + wis bonus). Unless the monk has a monstrous wisdom, these two abilities are will have no effect in high-level play.

You're supposed to be stunning wizards, I think.

Or orcs, goblins, or other minor personages. This only exacerbates the problem of monks not being front-line ready. It's something I hadn't looked at before, but now that I see it in play, it should have been obvious. Their best function is to hit the weak spots in an enemy line-up - certainly not their strengths.

Round 3:

Now the wyrm and rider are visible to Sleepy, although the dragon's body is multiplied 6-fold by illusion (mirror images).

So.....attack the one image that has a rider on it? That's a pretty dumb dragon...

hogarth wrote:

Round 3:

Now the wyrm and rider are visible to Sleepy, although the dragon's body is multiplied 6-fold by illusion (mirror images).

So.....attack the one image that has a rider on it? That's a pretty dumb dragon...

No, it looks more like one frost giant riding 6 overlapping dragons.

I'm not sure how high the dragon and giant are, but I'm assuming the dragon is on the ground and that should put the giant about 20' up. Sleepy will fly up to the giant, stunning fist attack, and move again, hopefully out of his range.

Don't forget you're prone and thus you have some attack/defense penalties. My ruling is that if you fly up, you're still prone unless you take a move action to reorient yourself into a vertical position (i.e. "stand up") as normal.

prone and flight are the wackiest rules ever...

What about a fly check to right ones self mid-air?

Say a DC15 or 20?

Also, don't you need fly-by-attack to fly attack and fly? hard to spring when you're feet aren't on the ground...

Don't forget you're prone and thus you have some attack/defense penalties. My ruling is that if you fly up, you're still prone unless you take a move action to reorient yourself into a vertical position (i.e. "stand up") as normal.

If flying doesn't negate the prone condition just by the very nature of flying, that would change his actions.

Move Action: Activate abundant step supernatural ability again for 2 ki points, move to 38,27, a position that should be

Standard Action: Use as a move action to stand up from prone.

Also, don't you need fly-by-attack to fly attack and fly? hard to spring when you're feet aren't on the ground...

Great question, but Spring Attack doesn't seem to be limited by movement type while Flyby Attack is limited to flying. It seems like one of those overlapping condition kind of problems.

Move Action: Activate abundant step supernatural ability again for 2 ki points, move to 38,27, a position that should be

Standard Action: Use as a move action to stand up from prone.

You can't do anything after you use Dimension Door, so you wouldn't be able to stand up.

Great question, but Spring Attack doesn't seem to be limited by movement type while Flyby Attack is limited to flying. It seems like one of those overlapping condition kind of problems.

Note that Flyby Attack is different from Spring Attack. Namely, it doesn't prevent attacks of opportunity caused by movement, and you can make any standard action in the middle (not just a single melee attack).

By the way, note that Sleepy is not trained in the Fly skill, so he can't make any Fly checks with a DC greater than 10. If you want to shift a skill point into Fly, that would be O.K. with me.

Sleepy Monk wrote:

Move Action: Activate abundant step supernatural ability again for 2 ki points, move to 38,27, a position that should be

Standard Action: Use as a move action to stand up from prone.

You can't do anything after you use Dimension Door, so you wouldn't be able to stand up.

Keep forgetting about that. He'll just rest for a moment, maybe close his eyes for a second or two, before getting back up the following round.

By the way, note that Sleepy is not trained in the Fly skill, so he can't make any Fly checks with a DC greater than 10. If you want to shift a skill point into Fly, that would be O.K. with me.

I think that might be a good idea, thanks. He'll be updated in just a few moments.

Update: Shifted 1 skill rank from sense motive to fly.

Abundant step was changed to a move action in the Beta, it's functions like dim door, it's not dim door.

Grumble will fly toward the ceiling, then move toward the sound of the dragon.

Abundant step was changed to a move action in the Beta, it's functions like dim door, it's not dim door.

As far as I can tell, it's treated like Dimension Door except for the casting time and that it should work only for the monk. If Sleepy wants to do a standard action before teleporting away, he's welcome to.

It sounds like something that should be raised in the Monk playtest thread.

Elmora will activate her armors flight ability, and fly up 30 feet, then toward the sound of the battle (60ft speed) Bow loaded with flame arrow.

Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:

Abundant step was changed to a move action in the Beta, it's functions like dim door, it's not dim door.

As far as I can tell, it's treated like Dimension Door except for the casting time and that it should work only for the monk. If Sleepy wants to do a standard action before teleporting away, he's welcome to.

It sounds like something that should be raised in the Monk playtest thread.

I'm pretty sure it has been raised in the monk threads, and hogarth's reading is the same as mine. It functions as the spell in all regards except for a couple things. It is a move action, and it is a supernatural ability (i.e. it wouldn't provoke AoOs as a spell-like ability or spell casting would).

I think we're also in agreement that it should be a personal spell as well - not usable on up to 1 medium creature per 3 caster levels. Strictly going by the spell, Sleepy could have brought along a few friends - but that, in my opinion, really breaks the spirit of the ability. We should bring this up, if anything.

Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:

Abundant step was changed to a move action in the Beta, it's functions like dim door, it's not dim door.

As far as I can tell, it's treated like Dimension Door except for the casting time and that it should work only for the monk. If Sleepy wants to do a standard action before teleporting away, he's welcome to.

It sounds like something that should be raised in the Monk playtest thread.

That was the wording change Jason put in after the alpha feedback, as far as I've been able to tell, the abundant step is a move action that can be done then allows further action afterwards, since I've been following the monks since the beginning, since they're very weak currently.

Since no one seems interested...

Still invisible, Tialla waves her wand, willing it to function in the way she has long since mastered. In moments, she is elsewhere, her wings flapping slowly and quietly as she hovers in the air, looking to catch up on the situation.

Use wand to dimension door to 32,12. (I autosucceed on the Use Magic Device check to activate the wand.) Tialla will hover, again autosucceeding on the necessary Fly check, while she takes in the situation.

Since no one seems interested...

Still invisible, Tialla waves her wand, willing it to function in the way she has long since mastered. In moments, she is elsewhere, her wings flapping slowly and quietly as she hovers in the air, looking to catch up on the situation.

Use wand to dimension door to 32,12. (I autosucceed on the Use Magic Device check to activate the wand.) Tialla will hover, again autosucceeding on the necessary Fly check, while she takes in the situation.

Sorry, T, I was home sick and nursing a sick two year old yesterday. Bad combination. Can you take Bartimus along with you?

Sorry, T, I was home sick and nursing a sick two year old yesterday. Bad combination. Can you take Bartimus along with you?

No problem. Action pretty much as stated then, except that I'm not hovering because I don't want to drop Bart when we get there.

Tialla, Bartimus, and the avorals teleport towards Sleepy's yelp of pain while the monk teleports away. Meanwhile, Elmora and Grumble fly closer.

Like a stroke of lightning, the dragon flies towards Grumble. Along the way, it encompasses Tialla, Bartimus and the avorals in a freezing fog bank (quickened freezing fog SLA, see White Dragon for details). They're all flying (aren't they?), so the ice-slick ground doesn't hamper them.

The dragon reaches Grumble and snaps at his weapon (disarm attempt), but misses due to displacement. Grumble's counterattack (AoO) destroys a mirror image. The jarl attacks Grumble cloak and is much more accurate (sunder, 52 vs. DC 42, dmg 31) and tears the cloak to bits, sending Grumble plummeting to the ground.

Notes: I assumed that combat maneuvers suffer the same miss chance as normal attacks do, although it isn't really specific.

Map: Current position

Grumble has combat reflexes (dex +5), So unless the Giant has improved sunder I get an AoO on the giant, and if I do dmg it will interrupt the sunder attempt...

Grumble has combat reflexes (dex +5), So unless the Giant has improved sunder I get an AoO on the giant, and if I do dmg it will interrupt the sunder attempt...

Sorry, Grumble -- Improved Sunder is a prerequisite for the Blackguard prestige class.

Grumble Grog wrote:

Grumble has combat reflexes (dex +5), So unless the Giant has improved sunder I get an AoO on the giant, and if I do dmg it will interrupt the sunder attempt...

Sorry, Grumble -- Improved Sunder is a prerequisite for the Blackguard prestige class.

Very well....

GROOOOooooooooooooog

"OOF"

Right ya Bugger!!!

good manuever, btw in my game, giant fighters get +4 CMB against giant's also. Makes perfect sense to me.

Next rounds action since Elmora should be able to see the Dragon, she will attempt to Hold Monster on it.

Caster check versus spell resistance:1d20+18=25 (includes +2 spell penetration feat, Caster level 16)

Will Save vs. DC24

Hold Monster
(as hold person)

Oh yeah, I would have given orders for the Avorals to follow me...(not much experience playing a summoner)

Can we get coordinates on that fog?

Can we get coordinates on that fog?

The centre is the intersection 5' north of where Tialla and Bartimus are positioned. It's marked on the map as a greyish circle.

From out of the fog, a voice drifts, "This is getting annoying." Bart feels a hand grab his again, and then the world shifts around him.

Tialla uses the wand to dimension door 95 ft directly northwest, taking Bart with her again.

EDIT:
GM:

On his next action, Bart will cast Freedom of Movement and move thirty feet north.

EDIT:

GM:
** spoiler omitted **

Oh, I totally messed that up; I assumed CL=HD. Forget the quickened freezing fog, then. I repeat, there is no freezing fog.

Right. New action then.

Watching the dragon flash past, Tialla frowns invisibly in frustration. She immediately leaps into the air in pursuit.

Moving to 2 squares south of the dragon and 2 squares west of the gray columns just to her right.

Okay, no Freedom yet, then.

Bart will move thirty feet closer to the dragon/giant, aiming for a clear view of them and drawing the rod metamagic as he goes.

MAXIMIZED FLAMESTIKE, aiming for the rider and dragon, DC 21 Reflex for half, Spell Penetration: 1d20+22=31

90 points of damage, half fire and half drunken divine fury!

Okay, no Freedom yet, then.

Bart will move thirty feet closer to the dragon/giant, aiming for a clear view of them and drawing the rod metamagic as he goes.

MAXIMIZED FLAMESTIKE, aiming for the rider and dragon, DC 21 Reflex for half, Spell Penetration: 1d20+22=31

90 points of damage, half fire and half drunken divine fury!

"Well Done PRIEST!!! We'll drink some grog after this!!!"

Grumble yells "Well done Giant, now come down here unless y'er a coward....oh wait ye ARRRRE a coward...BECAUSE y'er a Giant!!!"

it's that easy to sunder a magic item? no save for it?

it's that easy to sunder a magic item? no save for it?

There's no save, just hp and hardness. Unfortunately, cloth is pretty fragile when it comes to hp and hardness. On the other hand, Grumble's adamantine axe is very difficult to sunder (lots of hardness and hp because of the material and the number of pluses).

Nice DMs don't usually sunder the PC's favourite magic items, but I'm not being a nice DM for this playtest. >:-)

Grumble Grog wrote:

it's that easy to sunder a magic item? no save for it?

There's no save, just hp and hardness. Unfortunately, cloth is pretty fragile when it comes to hp and hardness. On the other hand, Grumble's adamantine axe is very difficult to sunder (lots of hardness and hp because of the material and the number of pluses).

Nice DMs don't usually sunder the PC's favourite magic items, but I'm not being a nice DM for this playtest. >:-)

Just weird to be able to destroy a magic item so easily...it wasn't that easy to destroy one in 1e/2e...and I've never done it to a player's non-weapon items in 3e (nor done it as a player)

From the d20 SRD...(I couldn't find it at PFOGC)

Now, magic weapons/armor had their own rules for destruction in 3e...which was different than attacking items (items got saves)

Magic Armor, Shields, and Weapons
Each +1 of enhancement bonus adds 2 to the hardness of armor, a weapon, or a shield and +10 to the item’s hit points.

So, a mgic cloak should have more than a 2 hardness and 10 hitpoints...shouldn't it? (bracers +5 would be tough also right? +10 harness/+50 hp)

I think this needs some clarification.

So, a mgic cloak should have more than a 2 hardness and 10 hitpoints...shouldn't it? (bracers +5 would be tough also right? +10 harness/+50 hp)

I think this needs some clarification.

That's a good question. But as far as I can tell from the current rules, 31 damage should be enough to sunder a magical cloak that doesn't have any "pluses".

Note: I haven't seen any magic item sundering in normal games I've played, but it's common enough in the "Core Coliseum" WotC message board.

Xaaon of Xen'Drik wrote:

So, a mgic cloak should have more than a 2 hardness and 10 hitpoints...shouldn't it? (bracers +5 would be tough also right? +10 harness/+50 hp)

I think this needs some clarification.

That's a good question. But as far as I can tell from the current rules, 31 damage should be enough to sunder a magical cloak that doesn't have any "pluses".

I'm thinking that's probable. Unless it was based upon caster level...(note: I'm just trying to get some clarification for play-test purposes...so I'm not upset or anything since it's a playtest! Let him die...and dragons should be tough heh.)