Jon, The Evil DM |
This is your new player, everyone! Several of you already know him, some of you don't, he'll be killing aliens with you. Sebastian, I'll get you into Gameplay fairly soon; combat is probably about to start, and once it does you'll be amongst the Peacekeepers with Gavril and Kristophe. We'll work you in with the group after that happens, if that works for you.
Borax Bohan |
@GM
So how far from the cables we found is comm post? Also, is it possible to radio our main group about the snipers waiting for them without giving away our position?
@Group,
I'm thinking we cut the power cables just before we ambush our the comm post.
Jon, The Evil DM |
No one seems to have spotted you (as far as you can tell) as the two snipers are the only ones who could and they seem focused on the main road. Assuming you have radios attached to your tactical vest at the shoulder, you can relay the message quiet enough that no one else would hear you. The people you can hear talking aren't being too quiet, they seem pretty secure in how they're operating since no one has found them yet. As for the cables, you only found the traces of where they were dragged in the sand. Still, you know there's some sort of portable generator around to power their equipment. If you find that without alerting them, you could disable that and take them down pretty easily.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Borax Bohan |
Whoops, yeah. Not sure why I thought you were the one I was speaking to.
Jackalyn Chase |
I was actually invited back! Holiday rush was really overwhelming so, thank you Jon for inviting me back so easily.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Of course! I have no problem with people who can't keep up with the game for a bit taking a bit of break to get their house in order, so to speak. It's nice to have you back, Jackalyn. I hope the holidays, however overwhelming, treated you well.
Jacob Farrell |
Oi Jon, given that two out of three Jacob's knowledges are related to middle east and rechnology, could he know how to say 'Machine is broken, needs repairs' in arab?
Because one thing I've yet to learn about SW is how to learn additional languages, so I am unsure if I know arab or not. I simply assumed he knew English and maybe gaelic. Don't know if his background, knowledges or Smarts give him arab.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Learning languages is actually a feature of either Knowledge skills or the Linguist edge, and I also give people languages they would realistically have based on their background; this is why Rosa can speak Spanish and Gavril can speak French, and then Gavril took the Linguist edge to gain languages outside of that. However, I'll let you make a Common Knowledge roll (ignoring your -2 as usual because of your specialties), and if you succeed Jacob remembers how to say that particular phrase.
Jacob Farrell |
Let's discuss silencers!
Mostly because I too thought about them and do want to get my hands on one later on.
Now onto video-game VS real life. I must say I don't a great deal about them, can make wild or educated guessed regarding how much noise to they actually silence but not more.
Now video ones...if we are talking the 'hitting a guy five feet from another and he doesn't notice' that's crap. If, on the other hand, we are talking a silencer that allows shooting in an adjacent room -still seems too much- or the like without being noticed, that would be okay with me.
Sundakan |
I'd err towards "popular fiction silencer". Savage Worlds is a game system that works largely on rule of cool and is based off action movies.
Two suggestions:
1.) Silencers make the weapon require a Notice check (at a -2) to hear from any distance beyond 60 feet/12 squares (the close range for a pistol).
2.) Silencers allow the user to make a Stealth check opposed by the enemy's Notice check to go unnoticed.
Jon, The Evil DM |
So, as I said, since there are no rules (that I saw, anyway) for purchasing and using silencers, that begs the question of whether we want to make them work like silencers in a video game, or if we want to lean a little more towards realism and use rules more in-line with how an actual firearm suppressor works. Many tabletop games lean more towards what you'd expect from a video game silencer, but at the same time I personally enjoy adding some splashes of realism. Also, for anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about:
A "silencer" is what you'll typically find in video games or most movies, where the sound of a firearm is drastically reduced to the point where someone a room over might not even notice you've fired a gun. They tend to sound something like this or this, which as you can tell is intended to be very quiet. They are entirely unrealistic and serve as a gameplay function rather than a simulation of real life.
A suppressor is what you can actually buy in real life. Suppressors serve a very useful function on actual firearms in a couple of ways. First, a suppressor lowers the decibel level of the firearm being fired... to the point where firing without earplugs might not leave you with permanent hearing loss. In addition, the way they distort sound makes it so that while an enemy can still easily hear your weapon firing, it's incredibly difficult to actually discern where the shot is being fired from. Normally, gunshots are very easy to follow directionally-speaking, while suppressors distort the sound in such a way that it's more difficult. Someone in the next room over will hear you firing a suppressed firearm as will someone 50 meters away. They sound more like this or this. As you can tell, those shots are still pretty loud; they're probably hovering around 120-150 decibels even with the silencer. Just for reference, a jackhammer is around 130. Now, there is a way to make a weapon nearly silent like you see in video games. These are called subsonic rounds, and here is an example of them compared to supersonic ammunition without a silencer. Of course, subsonic ammunition is traveling below the speed of sound--that's why it's much quieter--but this also means they have less kinetic energy and so deal less damage to a target.
In the time it took me to write out that post, you've all beaten me to the punch. So, here are my replies to your thoughts:
Rosa: That would make sense, although I'm more concerned with how we handle them right now. If we go with "popular fiction" silencers there's not much of a point in changing it with alien tech. If not, that will definitely be something you could procure.
Sundakan: That was my first though as well, but I wanted to pitch it to the group. Those ideas were actually immediately similar to my own I had when I was contemplating how they would work. I would probably add a penalty to Stealth based on the ammunition size used--as in small/medium/large in SW terms, I'm not going to delineate by the actual calibers--that could potentially be negated later on with alien technology.
Jackalyn Chase |
I think that, most likely, it would be a better idea to have actual human suppresors right now, and get full-on silencers when we start upgrading our gear with alien tech.
Jon, The Evil DM |
That's the angle I'm leaning towards as well, honestly. I can come up with a dozen reasons why alien technology lets you shoot super silent stealth lasers, so doing so isn't a problem. I'm thinking that at the moment silencers will work as follows:
A suppressor partially silences the sound of a firearm, but also makes it very difficult to determine the direction from which the shot came from. Anyone attempting to roll Notice to determine where the shot came from takes a -4 penalty to the check. In addition, beyond 60 feet a Notice check is required at -2 to hear the firearm being fired, with an additional -2 penalty for every 60 feet beyond the first.
As a head's up, I'm running a Shadowrun 4E recruitment right now if anyone's interested in that.
Jackalyn Chase |
I think it would be fair to say that Jackalyn would have a suppressor equipped to her Barrett.
Jon, The Evil DM |
A silencer, for a sneaky sniper type? What, are you kidding me?
Sure thing, pop it on your sheet.
PS: I'm gonna go ahead and start combat, so go ahead and act on your bracket, so to speak. Sebastian, you'll be in this combat as you're with Gavril and the (DM-controlled) Kristophe at the moment. I'll be drawing cards for you so go ahead and pop in on your action.
Borax Bohan |
@GM, there is no Ace when you roll Agility?
Jon, The Evil DM |
There is, I just didn't notice it when I was rolling the dice. It's also actually a mistake as you're Agility is a d10. Strictly speaking I should re-roll it but seeing as both faults are on me we'll just say Borax does succeed in diving out if the way and does not take damage. My apologies on that, I just blanked on that I think because I thought I had you rolling a d10 in my head and I saw an 8... but yeah, you do avoid the grenade. I feel like one should still take half damage from something like that, but that wouldn't even Shake you so it doesn't matter.
How does everyone feel about thst in the future, though? Maybe a success on Agility to dodge the grenade deals half, a Raise avoids the damage at all? Likely half damage will rarely even Shake you, but it feels like a more solid mechanic to me. Let me know if you disagree, though.
Also, I stole rolling Throwing into Fighting directly from that Fallout ruleset; Gavril runs a Fallout game on campus with the same ruleset and I loved it, so I took it. It's also where I decided to roll Tracking in with Survival.
Borax Bohan |
I'm fine with what ever you think creates the experience you want. Grenades having a stun effect is totally plausible for me.
Gavril Vasilescu |
I'd argue that there's no need to change the rules for grenades. It's already pretty difficult to avoid one: not only are you taking a -2 to your Agility roll, you also have to be aware of the danger--the book says "saw the danger coming," but I imagine at least for hero types expecting a threat would be enough--and actually have somewhere to go. It isn't like Pathfinder where you miraculously avoid the attack without moving; you are forcibly put on the edge of the blast radius, and if you can't get there, you can't dodge. (Thus grenades are very useful in enclosed areas, even if Savage Worlds doesn't have the 'chunky salsa' effect.)
Jacob Farrell |
Chunky salsa effect? Wait until I trick Jon into alloeing me tu build a full auto grenade launcher or failing that a big version of an AA-12 shotgun loaded with HI-Ex rounds.
Speaking of shotungs, I fail to remember this but is there any barrel mounted shotgun mod for rifles ala Rambo's underbarrel grenade launcher? Oficial mod I mean.
I've been thinking about Jacob and he's definitely going to specialize even more on explosives and bombs, and shotguns -specially homemade highly dangerous ones- fith the mad irish bomber theme.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Official shotgun modifications? No, there is not. However, in SW even picking up shotguns as your main weapon isn't always a terrible idea; they deal quite a bit of damage and often score raises due to the +2 Shooting they give you. Taking Marksman at Seasoned means that without at least a -2 penalty to hit you'll always hit your target at close range provided you don't roll snake eyes.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Update coming in tomorrow; first day back at school was busier than I expected and I'm beat. I contacted Jacob since he's up next for initiative in the other group, but I know he's been studying for an exam of some sort to get him a job so if he's too busy right this second I can take over.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Just a head's up, I'll be updating sometime in the afternoon tomorrow, probably around 2:00-3:00 my time. I had to take a trip to the doctor this morning due to a bit of a health scare--luckily, it was a false alarm--and I've been a little out of it all day (I woke up about three hours earlier than normal for the appointment) and didn't feel good enough to post.
Borax Bohan |
@DM
Being new to Savage World game mechanics, I can't say I really understand the benefit from suppression fire. I thought I'd try it there, but I guess I have no clue whether it had any impact.
Rosa Vasquez |
I think it has the same purpose as real life, keeping the enemy down. It can shake an entire group of enemies, which is tough to do with standard attacks. But it's not really all that helpful when you're not getting at least two or three in one go.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Yeah, that's basically the gist of it. You managed to suppress three enemies--they rolled Spirit against your suppressive fire roll--and that means they're Shaken, also meaning they didn't act for the turn. For sake of convenience those three were terrorists who were going to try and fire on Gavril and Sebastian, meaning they were prevented from attacking and would have been easier to Wound if they had attacked them themselves. In a different kind of firefight suppressive fire can make it far easier to kill stronger enemies by shaking them without having to actually beat their Toughness, too.
Also, I actually missed that you succeeded in killing one of them; if they roll a 1 they take damage (presumably in addition to being Shaken, or what's the point?), and I plugged your damage dice into the dice roller and you did enough to put one down. It's a less immediately tangible benefit, but it's still very useful when used strategically.
Borax Bohan |
Thanks for the info. Did you have a chance to check if a higher ROF provides any benefit on Suppressive Fire? I see it a RoF 3 uses more ammo than RoF 3, but does it get a bonus any of the rolls?
Jon, The Evil DM |
Borax Bohan |
It would seem more consistent to just get a boost on the actual roll, as RoF normally does, no?
Jon, The Evil DM |
Borax, that's a fair point. I may have it provide a bonus to the roll, or I may have it allow you to make multiple suppressive fire rolls (much like RoF allows you to make multiple Shooting rolls), probably a number equal to RoF-1 since you need to have an RoF of 2 or more to use Suppressive Fire at all. Unlike normal attacks, you'd just take the highest of your Suppressive Fire rolls and enemies need to roll against that or be Shaken. That seems like a decent idea to me, we'll go with that in the future.
Rosa, it's fine to say you reloaded on your way. Makes plenty of sense to me.
As a head's up, I'll have a full House Rules document up for SW on my profile you can refer to if you have future questions about stuff I did. I already have one up for Shadowrun and Pathfinder, so it'll be in the same spot.
PS: We'll say Borax is close enough that the Gavril and Sebastian benefit from Command for a +1 on their Spirit rolls.
Jacob Farrell |
Oi Sundy, you aced the fighting roll. If you are lucky with it the raise perhaps can unf%@# your damage.
Jackalyn Chase |
Yes, but it does Raise, which means an extra 1d6 damage.
I still get confused by that, don't worry :P
Jon, The Evil DM |
Unfortunately, since it's a Fighting roll that's not a Raise, this guy's Parry is higher than 4. However, if you were to Wilf Fight that would make it a raise, giving you not only the +2 from Wild Fighting but also another d6 of damage. Of course, you're also taking a multi-action penalty with the Shooting roll, which would drop it down to an 8 again. So, up to you, change stuff if you want.
Also, Borax's command makes your Spirit roll a success, so no need to Benny.
Jacob Farrell |
An 8 does not Ace a d10, unfortunately.
My mistake, don't know why I read 1d8.
But know I remembered something I thought about when we were playing the Fallout game. Will show ya so you can judge it -and me if you want to, but I will plead not guilty anyway-:
Requisites: d12 Shooting, Fighting or Throwing ; Favoured Weapon(the one that gives +1 to rolls with a certain weapon) or Master (The one that gives +1 to a skill if you got d12 on it already)
You roll 2d6 instead of 1d12 with the chosen skill.
When rolling them both die have to come up as a natural 1 for it to count as 'snake eyes' or any effect that specify a roll coming up as 1.
When acing, treat each d6 separately (You can ace none, one or both d6.
If you accessed the edge with Favoured Weapon, this edge's benefits apply only with the weapon chosen with it.
With a d12 the chances are equally divided, 8.3% for each "side" of the die. That means you have an 8.3% chance of botching it, an 91.7% chance of not botching it at all and an equally 8.3% chance of acing.
With 2d6 the chances are spread like Gauss likes it.
The chances of two 1s coming up are only 2.78%, so the chances of not botching it go up to 97.22 and while the chance of a super ace is also only 2.78 your chances of a single ace are higher: 30.55%.
Quite the improvement.
TL;DR: Basically reducing the chances of a really bad roll while increasing the chances of acing.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Ah, that's right. I typically find people using Ambidextrous/Two-Fisted with two melee weapons, so I forgot. He actually did grab his knife again and Gavril missed his Parry by 1, but as you'll see in my next post it's not gonna matter much.
As for the Improved Critical Edge? I'm not a huge fan, but I will likely introduce a way to make multiple raises count on an attack or something similar. I'd rather keep it the way it is with the d12 for now, but perhaps it might have an addendum to make it harder to snake eyes; however, statistically it's already unlikely to do so and you always have Bennies to spend for such things. I'll think on it, though.
Jon, The Evil DM |
Jon, The Evil DM |
Hey Sebastian, I forgot there was one thing I wanted from you. To account for the fact that there are things characters, based on their backgrounds, ought to have knowledge of I have people pick Specialties; these are related to your character's life and experiences and allow them to roll Common Knowledge for things they ought to know even if they aren't exactly Common Knowledge. If you had a Specialty in something like Military Technology, you could roll Common Knowledge to identify unusual weaponry or vehicles that someone otherwise wouldn't know about. You get three of them, just let me know what they are.