World of Remnant: Team CASE

Game Master Aloha-Shirt-Samurai


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Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Okay, so here's the document SO FAR. I have not had the opportunity or energy to layout pictures or set up the bookmarks and such yet, but I can get that done tomorrow or something.

HOW I FEEL

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

Well first off i can say, damn it's set up very nicely in design terms compared to the bare bones of the last version.

I like the new approach to Aura soaking, actually using the PP instead of costing benny's, just like let's say toughness in 3.5 it's a specialization thing if you want to become a bit tougher to take down than your allies. With this system it seems it'll be less of a spirit is more valuable than vigor compared to, vigor is relatively free but not as powerful whereas spirit and aura are more powerful but weaken you on all fronts.

I have a question on how the forms of weapons work, can one take unused points from secondary forms and shove them into tertiary and all those after, or do you only gain extra MP for alt forms from Technical-weapon development?

Overall i actually like the look of the changes to the system, still a few things that need touched up mostly phrasing and spellchecks but that's all the little nitty gritty. Are you planning on adding more, such as the armor or other systems that we've talked about into this design? Vehicular weapons and such and settled rulings on that?

I'm just a little confused on semblances in this version, so you have a core power but it's stuck to one power IE: block or teleport. You also might want to have some kind of accounting for abilities that can't be turned off and don't really rely on focused power such as Qrow's Unlucky Charm.

Might have overlooked, triple checking soon, is the base PP now 5 unless you have unlocked aura, which by the character creation section bumps it up to 10.

I know that there's probably lots of work to still put into this bad beastie of a fan-mod so i hope i bring up good points.

Oh also about weapons when you say they are modified from a base template, you are saying from a base weapon within the core book like great sword, rapier, Staff etc right. We just insert the base stats like the str+d6 damage, and then effects like Reach and parry bonus's are automatically attached as 'new' base stats?


Inactive

Esper - "Your weapon is modified from the base template...". There are Ranged and Melee templates. I don't think core book weapons have anything to do with that.

Speaking of the core book, does fail on the Spirit roll to activate Semblance eats PP, as is the case with the core spells?

Edit: And another questions - since the weapon building system is altered do we get a free weapon remodeling on the downtime?

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

Shamrock- Thanks i derped for a moment sorry.
()'s are what i thought was implied
{}'s are what i think it actually does to gameplay.

Are we also still using the range-tables from Aloha's version of the game, if not then the terms short/medium/long/extreme range kind of lose meaning. I am going under the impression that we are keeping the old meanings for the range categories. If so it's nice to see ranged weapons don't have to pay for a 'base' range which actually helps shore up MP prices quite well.

You were looking to get rid of some redundancy in the modifications as well. But there are some redundancies within this version as well, again this is all pointless if i'm misunderstanding/misreading things.

Simplified Chambers -2:This weapon cannot be loaded with dust catridges. (implies that weapons naturally can load dust cartridges in both forms){I think this would mean no form can load dust at all}

Dust Chamber +2 (If the from the previous mod is true then all weapons start with this.){This should probably just be a Melee strict mod, since i think it's implied that all weapons can access dust cartridges in ranged form}

Inefficient Mechanism -1: This firearm cannot use dust cartridges to enhance their ranged attacks.(Seems to prove that ranged weapons naturally carry the ability to fire dust enhanced shots. No problem with this one just using it to further my example.)

Suggestion:
I would suggest having all weapons naturally able to accept dust cartridges in ranged form. Then have simplified chambers as a Ranged only mod to disallow dust shots, and Dust Chamber as a Melee Addition to enhance melee weapons with Dust.

Keep your increased size Dust chambers(Dual/Triple/Revolver) as universal mods that further modify all dust capable forms universally.

Thoughts on dust as a whole:

Honestly dust and weapons is gonna be hard to keep track of realistically simply because you should logically be able to load any variety of bullet types into a magazine clip. Case being when Weiss gives Blake a clip with an assortment of Dust shots in the Train scene. So we may even have to short hand and say that Dust chambers are specific to Melee weapons and just allow you to modify your semblance or use Archaic forms of dust magic while wielding a weapon. Meanwhile leaving ranged weapons(without the simplified chamber) to be predetermined when you load in a clip. Mixed dust rounds will then have to be used in a FILO style.

Example(Melee Chamber):
Esper loads her melee weapon with Orange(earth) dust before battle to supplement her semblance. Upon casting her semblance she also releases 5 ounces of dust from the 10 ounce chamber, causing her semblance to provide bonus armor for it's duration should she succeed on her roll. Because she only has the basic dust chamber mod she can only load 10 ounces of 1 type of dust at a given time, if she were to use white dust to increase her speed she would have to 'reload' her dust chamber with white dust.

example(Filo clip):
I reload using a mixed clip(size 6) loaded with White, Orange, Brown dust, and three standard shots. The first three attacks i use are standard bullets with no effects, however my last three shots use up 1 ounce of the dust loaded as well as being charged by the dust effect.

TLDR:
Melee chambers allow access to singular or multiple types of raw Dust to be used via melee weapons to alter your semblance, or to make use of Woven dust example Weiss/Cinder.

Ranged weapons can pack any number of dust shots within their clip size but must be determined when reloading weather they are using a full standard clip or mixed rounds. Example Blake(with Weiss's custom packed clip)

Edit(last one for this post i swear)- Might also want to define what the 'normal' benefits of a shield are as well as shield Size. If we switch to this system i'm going to again drop into the Medium shield is your standard since most(if not all) of the shield's we've seen utilized in the show are medium class and maybe pushing into Large for Juane, but that also might be because he's still young and not fully grown into the equipment.

Shield+2: This Melee weapon also includes a shield, providing the normal benefits of a shield.


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

First off, I want to acknowledge that you've put a lot of hard work into the document re-write.

I do like the "spend a PP to add your Shielding to your Toughness" mechanism - no spending a Bennie, no rolling a die. But in light of how truly insane the SW Acing mechanism can affect damage, I'd like to suggest that you remove the Rank restriction on how many PP you can spend at a time. Or maybe make it 2*Rank?

However, I notice that at least a couple of weapon abilities are missing, such as High Penetration and Double Barrel, both of which I use in my weapon.

Also, you changed the point values of some abilities, and added other abilities. Maybe you don't know, but the original point values came from Zadmar's excellent weapon-creation system, HERE. He is an *expert* in balancing things in SW, and according to his system, an automatic weapon that can do single-shot, double-tap, AND 3-round burst mode should cost 11 points, whereas you have it only costing 4! I know that combo is part of your weapon, but really, 1/3 the cost???

Also, why'd you change the name of so many weapon abilities? I was used to the old ones...

And, in your descriptions, could you please list the abilities in alphabetical order? It would be *so* much easier to find what I want!

Finally, I feel very strongly that activating our Semblance Power should not cost 2 PP per activation (and I second the question, does failing the Spirit roll "waste" the PP?)! That's only 5 uses of Semblance *per day*, not accounting for PP spent on Aura "Soaking"! And it virtually forces every PC to take the Power Points Edge every Rank, in order to keep up. I'd be ok with 1 PP per activation, not wasted if the Spirit roll fails.

Also, you said that every Rank we get to choose a new Power - is that for "free", or does it cost an Advancement also? And why do "secondary" Powers cost *more* PP?


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8
Azure Crowder wrote:

First off, I want to acknowledge that you've put a lot of hard work into the document re-write.

I do like the "spend a PP to add your Shielding to your Toughness" mechanism - no spending a Bennie, no rolling a die. But in light of how truly insane the SW Acing mechanism can affect damage, I'd like to suggest that you remove the Rank restriction on how many PP you can spend at a time. Or maybe make it 2*Rank?

However, I notice that at least a couple of weapon abilities are missing, such as High Penetration and Double Barrel, both of which I use in my weapon.

Also, you changed the point values of some abilities, and added other abilities. Maybe you don't know, but the original point values came from Zadmar's excellent weapon-creation system, HERE. He is an *expert* in balancing things in SW, and according to his system, an automatic weapon that can do single-shot, double-tap, AND 3-round burst mode should cost 11 points, whereas you have it only costing 4! I know that combo is part of your weapon, but really, 1/3 the cost???

Also, why'd you change the name of so many weapon abilities? I was used to the old ones...

And, in your descriptions, could you please list the abilities in alphabetical order? It would be *so* much easier to find what I want!

Finally, I feel very strongly that activating our Semblance Power should not cost 2 PP per activation (and I second the question, does failing the Spirit roll "waste" the PP?)! That's only 5 uses of Semblance *per day*, not accounting for PP spent on Aura "Soaking"! And it virtually forces every PC to take the Power Points Edge every Rank, in order to keep up. I'd be ok with 1 PP per activation, not wasted if the Spirit roll fails.

Also, you said that every Rank we get to choose a new Power - is that for "free", or does it cost an Advancement also? And why do "secondary" Powers cost *more* PP?

I apologize, I will not be able to tend to all of your issues as some of them are a matter of your preference. Those are your preferences, and other people will have theirs. I can't please everyone.

I chose specifically to limit the amount of PP a character can spend to soak up damage because of that. Novice characters should not be capable of stopping hits just as easily as Legendary characters. I'll look at potentially balancing it, but I do want there to be a limit. I might change it to 1+rank, just to account for the way some people can get stupidly lucky rolls.

I had a reason for excluding double barrel, but right now it's not coming to me. I'll go look back at my notes. High Penetration was an oversight. Thanks for spotting it! :)

As for the 'maybe you don't know' thing. Yes, I know. He's not the only guy out there that works on these systems. Aloha's document included the references. I don't agree with everything his method does. *shrug*. As for folding in lower-tier fire rate upgrades into the higher one: You could (per the prior setting rules) spend a ton of points on getting a gun that does 2d8, burst fire, and full auto... or you could put those points into a cool melee weapon and buy an AK-47. :/ That didn't seem right to me either. Trying to convince me to do it his way because "he's better than you" is both insulting and not effective. (Not to mention unconfirmed)

As for Semblances, I already knew your position on it ;)
Semblances are not used constantly by characters in the show, in fact, several people downplay/hide their semblances because they're supposed to give them a trump card they can use in a fight, and if someone knows they use it, it's not much of a trump card. (Alternatively, some people use it as their primary fighting method. Yang gets in trouble all the time because of that.) However they choose to use it, characters get tired using their semblances even a few times. Now, there are some inconsistencies in this, but even Glynda (arguably heroic/legendary tier) got tired from using her semblance rebuilding the city, Ruby could hardly use her semblance for more than a few seconds in the early seasons, and Blake uses hers in quick bursts but then not for the rest of the fight.

In addition, I included a number of edges that A)reduce the cost of using semblances. b)makes them easier to activate. 3) makes your core power FREE. This was intentially left as options because not everyone in RWBY bothers mastering more than the basics of their semblance. Or even uses it. I'm looking at you, Jaune.

Clarifications:
Yes, you get a new power to further expand on your semblance at each rank. It is free.
The new power costs more because it's not the most pure expression of your soul, like your core power is.
No, you do not lose your PP if you fail to activate your semblance.
Esper, I'm going to be looking at the dust-chamber thing and ironing it out. Thanks for the feedback and sorry I didn't say more on it!
Shamrock, I dunno if my revisions would even get accepted yet, but if so I'm sure we'd be allowed to re-fit our stuff to work with the new changes.

Offered Compromise:
The Super Powers Compendium had a setting rule called Natural Growth, where characters automatically gained 5pp each time they increased in rank, as if they had taken Power Points, but still allowed them to take Power Points if they wanted. I think this would be fine and is a decent representation of how RWBY's world works.


Inactive

I like changes in weapon system, and especially about modes of fire - didn't make sense that FA weapon couldn't do other modes. Also frees customization points.
Semblance and aura - while I like the current system, I understand your reasoning. And I like new aura soaking mechanic.
Natural growth sounds good - you grow with every fight (free PP), and can specialize at the same time.

All in all, I don't see a problem in using these changes, as long as GM and others aren't completely against them.


NPC Wound Tracker:
Peach - 0 Raccoon - 3 Shark - 0
NPC Benny Tracker:
Peach - 3/3 Raccoon 2/3 Shark 1/3

So upfront: The book looks great and your redesign is awesome. The only thing that bugs me is that the background image for each page cuts off slightly before the margin at the left side. Otherwise that looks awesome. I'll go through and check for typos and stuff, since I imagine there are still some left over from my draft, but it definitely looks good and reads easy.

Aura: still a fan of this method of aura soaking and the changes you've made to it are a dramatic improvement in terms of quality of life and game balance. No real complaints. I'm fine with starting off with a single use of your shielding as it still lets you stack your defenses. 2 x rank seems excessive (legendary characters with a large enough power pool could soak well over 100 points of damage), but I'd be fine with 1 + rank as well for fine tuning purposes. It also doesn't feel like it will just turn combat into a slog of hitting each other over and over until someone finally runs out of Aura, which was my other big concern.

An aside about HP:
I hate hit points in the vast majority of systems and attempts to fix hit points are usually either unfun or unbalanced. I realized pretty early on that RWBY is one of the only settings where HP is explicitly more appropriate--they even use hit meters in the Vytal Festival Tournament for crying out loud--but it's still no fun for me as a GM. Without wounds or some other measurable depreciation of your character's abilities, hit points just feel like an arbitrary number and sufficiently large numbers of them turn any game into a slog. This is my biggest complaint with DnD, particularly for melee characters.

Some other d20 games (the Stargate adaptation of all things comes to mind) try to get around this with your arbitrary hit points functioning as "luck" or whatever and you only have a handful of vitality points that actually matter when you lose them. In a lot of ways that probably would have been the best system for Remnant, but... Then we would have to make up everything else. :)

Semblance: Okay, you and I obviously don't see eye to eye on how semblances work, but your method is vastly superior on game balance, so I'm okay with it. I still feel some type of way about it (how would you stat Yang? Warrior's Gift giving her the Don't Git 'im Riled edge from Deadlands is the closest I can see without use of power triggers or modifiers from the Superpowers Companion) but balance does have to be taken into account and there were some potentially game-breaking uses of Semblance with the original system (nothing *truly* broken until you could stack powers--but by Veteran somebody could have taken, say, Quickness/Intangibility, taken a hold on the first action, attacked and then disappeared and been untouchable every round as long as they could make a basic spirit check) so something had to give there. I'm still mulling this one over as I'm fairly attached to modifiers, but this wins on playability by a mile.

Weapons: This probably needs the most tweaking.

I am not a fan of a base damage of 2d8 for ranged weapons, I would support that being a 4 point weapon mod (calling it, say, Loaded for Bear or Heavy Rifling, and bringing the Extra Damage mod down to 3 points). I'm also not a fan of medium range for free. It seems a little too heavily weighted to ranged combat right now. Melee combat should be advantageous in some ways (damage, edges) but the tradeoff is that you are in range of Grimm, which tend to be deadly in close quarters. (I think I brought this up during recruitment, but honestly if Remnant didn't run on Rule of Cool, everybody would be a sniper and nobody would ever fight Grimm up close. Like, seriously, why would you? That's my justification for leaning a little more heavily on melee weapons)

I don't honestly care for Universal Mods either. It seems a little too easy right now to build a ranged character, spend all of their melee points on universal mods and get a super-sniper for low cost (there's also nothing stopping me from taking every negative melee mod and then dumping the points back into Universal Edges that benefit my ranged weapon. In effect I could have a primary ranged weapon with 13 points of universal mods from my secondary melee form and just never switch). Balancing each form separately seems to make things a little easier.

I'm going to mull weapons over and try to figure out a middle ground there. Overall, big fan of everything and fine with it all except the weapon balance changes. Thanks for putting in the elbow grease, Rungok. :)


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

As I had stated in the section on mods, you cannot move your MP from mode to the other mode. You take a flaw for your melee mode, those MP stay in melee. You already *had* universal mods, but just hadn't really clarified that via the rules, which was really all I did. Sure, I made more things universal than before, but that's actually along the lines of making it make more sense from a use and point-expenditure sense. (as in, I didn't want someone taking light for ranged and heavy for melee... like, conservation of mass, guys?)

I stuck ranged at medium/2d8 because they need a baseline performance with no mod points spent, just like melee, otherwise you're favoring melee. But you're right, theres the rule of cool, and that's why melee weapons are still very viable (and build-wise, much easier to be efficient with your points and have cool features). TBH, I don't think I changed a single MP value from your document.

That said, I'm not *pleased/finished* with AotGS, and there will be work done on making sure you can have fun with both. :)
In my defense, I was halfway through that chapter yesterday when I discovered my grandfather died and I hadn't known because no one bothered to tell me. So my judgement from that point forward may have been a little skewed.

[edit]Yang? Probably set it up as the Smite power, with the trapping of "limit break".

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

I have to agree with Carmine i think the medium range is a good baseline range, maybe bump the damage down to 2d6 to be more inline with melee. But at the same time having a baseline damage of 2d8 means characters who are more focused into mental stats, high agil/int/spirit and less brawny frontlines will have a more relative start compared to someone who focuses more on the standard fighter build, without having to turn around and soak edges into extra MP points.

I really like the new weapon modification, it doesn't make sense for your weapon to have no 'baseline' range if by base it has a melee and ranged form there have to be some kind of starting points. I'm not a fan that we still have to soak points into weather or not our melee form is one handed or not, but at the same time i can mildly see that from a balance side of things.

I really prefer Carmine's new system of activating semblances, but i would like to keep the old version of creating your semblance, i feel like the old version had more variety whereas the new version is, you pick a core power and well that's that. Granted this new way allows for greater development of one's semblance over time, but at the same time i'm not sure if we've been given any reason to believe Semblances change over time. Being able to mix and match is what provides the uniqueness of them. If every front-line fighter had to spice up their boost stat or armor up simply by adding a flair of color and visual looks to the semblance it kind of loses the uniqueness in my mind.

Yang:
In the old system i had given some thought as to how Yang's semblance would work if we are looking for a good example.
Absorption(Physical)[2]
- Transference+2
Melee Attack[4] +2d6
-Stackable+2
-Lethal-1(If she's destroying military grade equipment like it's made out of lego's i don't think it can be nonlethal without some hefty effort)
-One Limb-1(I feel like one limb suits this cause Yang generally expels all the built up energy in one single attack)
-Limitation(Must be wounded)-2
-Slow to activate-1(Must take a moment to fully release power in a fiery blaze)

Trappings Red eyes and fire aura/Sudden Explosion of power

Slow to activate might even be able to be substituted for Contingent-1 in this scenario simply because she must take and absorb damage in order to utilize her Semblance.


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Thanks! I appreciate all the honest feedback for this. I will look at a way to do the weapon system so everyone's at the least, satisfied.

I will get back to it. Probably be a few more days. Everyone, i appreciate the feedback.

Also, if you want a particular piece of art in the book let me know! It looks solid enough I'll throw it up for other people to download.

-Posted with Wayfinder


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Question: If I had developed a way that can handle the weapon stuff without using the existing system, and it flowed well/let players have the style they wanted, would that be okay? is using this particular system of weapon design a must with each of you?

*Might have other options to use, just checking.
It also might fix the Semblance issue. Actually, it might fix all the g~+&&&n issues.

Thanks again!


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

If you have a different system in mind, why not present it and let us vote on it (with maybe Remnant getting two votes)?

I'd like to ask you to consider adding Double Barrel to the weapon abilities list, as it is already in my weapon.

I hadn't gone over the Edges, so I didn't know you could reduce the PP spent on activating your Semblance to zero. Question : is Semblance Mastery a Novice-level Edge, no prerequisites?

Also, when you get closer to being done, a clickable index at the front would be nice.

P.S. - I didn't mean to be insulting by pointing out Zadmar's system, I was offering it as another resource because *I didn't know* if you knew about it.

However, your argument that "You could (per the prior setting rules) spend a ton of points on getting a gun that does 2d8, burst fire, and full auto... or you could put those points into a cool melee weapon and buy an AK-47" is rather specious, since AK-47's 1)are a *separate* weapon, and 2)aren't available (AFAIK). I *do* know that Zadmar's point costs per weapon ability are based on its effectiveness in combat, and to offer a packaged set of weapon abilities for 4 points that have 11 points of combat effectiveness seems...imbalanced. For that much "bang per buck", logically *everyone* should take it, and our weapons end up all looking the same. Perhaps if you at least separate out the Burst Fire abilities (single shot, double-tap, and 3-round burst, which by themselves cost 3 points in your table) from Full Auto (just ROF 3, which by itself really *should* cost 4 points, but which the way you have it only costs 1 point), that would allow more variability in weapon building, and result in a point cost that is more correlated to its combat effectiveness.


Inactive

Yes, let's take a look and a vote on this system.


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

At the time of my post, the new idea wasnt polished. I've got it a little cleaned up but im sick today, so i might not be able to get it on paper yet.

-Posted with Wayfinder

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

erm in spirits of moving things forward on both fronts, i think Shamrock is the only one left in this round of combat.


Inactive

I already acted. I shot Raz and Felix.

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

Ah, i see.... yep that nap is sounding more reasonable by the minute.


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Sorry for being late!
All right. I've mostly recovered, had time to stew on my thoughts, and actually talk to a few other SW designers.

One thing that bothered me about using the proposed system for weapon design, and my version only made it worse, was that Savage Worlds has a design ethic of Fast and Furious Fun.

I think we've kind of overlooked some already existent resources because we've been so focused on what we want it to do that we forget one of the key features of SW: Trappings.

Because of trappings, one man's Bolt power *looks* vastly different than anothers. One could be literally a bolt of lightning, and the other a supersonic marble or something. Both are bolt. Both have the same mechanical effect, and now both can have fun without being forced to take fireball at level 3 because it's the only way to have an offensive 'spell' or something.

So, to kind of fix things, I'm going to do what we Americans have been doing for years.

I'm gonna steal something. ;)
Don't get mad at me it's just a joke. About myself. >.<

Specifically, I'm going to steal heavily from the Superpowers Companion, a book everyone here likely has and enjoys. I'm going to go the opposite of what I did before and open up the gates for people to have their character, their way, with little to any modification to the core mechanics while still feeling like RWBY.

So, here we go:

Proposed Solution:

***ARCANE BACKGROUND***(HUNTRESS/HUNTER)
This is the way we're going to fix everything.
REASONS! Firstly, normal characters in their world are the same as any extra in a SW game, so locking all the fun stuff behind an AB allows for characters to innately stand out. Secondly, this makes a lot of sense from a more detached perspective. The characters in RWBY do superheroic stunts on a day to day basis, things that normal humans could never do. Sounds good to me. Thirdly, we already touched on using superpowers to use our semblances but they were... not very clearly defined in the first document. We can fix that.

The Arcane Background will grant access to multiple things.
Specifically, there is one deviation from the normal that I'm actually doing, and it's the only one I think needs to be done to make this all pretty and fast and fun.

First, a Power Point Pool!
The character starts with just 10 PP that they can use for special effects, soaking damage, etc. This is called Aura Power Points, or APP.
APP can be used to add their shielding to their toughness to soak attacks, or it can be used to activate their semblance for a scene.
(thinking roughly 1APP to activate for every 5 BPP spent on it)

They also get another type of Power Points!
They also get 15 PP used to construct their Huntress abilities and special weapon! This is called Build Power Points, or BPP.

Build Power Points are used to build their Technical/Huntress weapon. They can choose from the Superpowers Companion any attack power as their 'Primary' power. This power comes with the 'Device' and the 'Switchable' power modifiers (one's a +2 cost and one's a -2 cost, so they cancel each other out for this purpose). The alternate power is going to be their weapon's other 'mode'. So a melee power if they had a ranged one, a ranged power if they had a melee one.

The important thing here is that characters can much more readily customize their huntress/hunter with this, choosing how many of the 15 BPP they get to build their awesome weapon. Also, with trappings they can have these powers be the kind of weapon they want.

The remaining points after building their weapon are used to buy the power of their Semblance, and, if they want, to buy specific [special techniques] that they can perform with their weapons that aren't technically their weapon (Example: Blakes use of Gambol Shroud as a way to swing around high areas).

Leave final say on what they can choose to the GM. I would say the only *explicit* ones that are on the no-go list are the Toughness/armor increasing ones and intangible.

Let's say general guidelines are ~10 points for their huntress weapon, 5 for semblance. (I. E. Ballistic flight, shadow clones)

Aura Soaking!
This version would still use the Shielding/aura use I proposed. Characters can spend up to 1+their tier in APP to increase their toughness for that initiative card. Each APP spent increases their toughness by their Shielding rating.

Adjusted Skills
Skill: Aura Mastery (Spirit)
-Replaces Dustcraft.
-Use this to access Semblance and use dust!

Skill: Weaponcrafting (Smarts)
-Use this to make changes to your Huntress' Weapon powers during downtime! Less worry about money. This can also be used to identify powers of other people's weapons with a successful skill roll.

Fighting/Shooting/Throwing= (Agility)
-Characters end up wasting a lot of precious skill points on raising both their fighting and shooting skills (or, sometimes throwing I guess). My suggested solution is that each character using their Huntress/Hunter weapon's primary mode skill (I.E. Fighting or shooting) can make attacks from an alternate mode with the same skill die but a single -2 penalty.

System Adjustment
The new system would use the natural growth rules, so players get an extra 5 APP each tier. They can take Extra Power Points for more BPP. This way their aura gets a little better as they grow without having to invest in it. And by using an Edge to get 5 more BPP they can either fine tune their weapon or expand upon the power of their Semblance or 'learn' new techniques to go with it!

Okay there it is.
Anyways. I hope people are willing to look at it with some kind of open mind. I'd hate for all this work to be shunned just because no one likes change. :p

Of course, if accepted, everyone would have to re-configure their characters, but I think in the long run, making characters this way is easier and faster, and easier to double-check for errors too.

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

Warning Metric load of text:
So.. instead of building semblance and weapon separate.. or as separate entities, we're using Build points to smash the two systems together?

I'll go ahead and say i don't outright like banning off semblance powerrs/ Even removing intangible is bias, because that power is the essence of Ruby's semblance, speed and bursting into rose petals.
I also have reservations against disallowing armor/toughness buffing. It may be slightly bias from me but, i understand the balancing reason as to why this is something you'd want to remove. If you disallow toughness/armor but don't disallow parry buffing you aren't really fixing the issue anyway just soak everything into parry instead of armor/toughness they are almost-equally cost effective.
If anything put a cap on Toughness/Armor/Parry buffing but don't down right remove it, cause if you remove them then well frankly that borks Esper completely and I haven't even used my semblance because i know it's powerful, and personally i'd rather Rp out self-handicapping myself and waiting till the last minute rather than simply scrap the concept and go back to the drawing board completely.

Making your weapon out of a general build point system with no baseline runs into a similar issue as the 1.0 weapon creation except now it innately messes with both ranged and melee forms. In 1.0 and 2.0 ranged and Melee had baseline damage(Good), in 1.0 ranged did not have a baseline Range(bad but fixed with 2.0). 3.0 will have neither have a baseline which means you MUST soak points into baseline statistics that should be there in the first place (IE: Damage/Range)

I would also like to throw out the idea that Melee should have a baseline stat of one-handed. In the show the major majority of weapons are One-handed or two-parts. Right now we are assuming that most weapons are 2 handed by default forcing players who want to do a traditional Sword/Mace/Pistol build to soak 2 points into that alone, something like the amount of hands your weapon requires should either be a base trait or Cost at most 1 build point, or no points at all and just use logic. One-handed weapons of course have the advantage of allowing for a free hand while fighting, but two-handed weapons innately are weaker and offer no bonus. This is actually an issue i've had for a while now but the more i think about it the more it urks me.

We need an actual Baseline for weapons to build off of and honestly i think 2.0 is the best baseline, if anything i'd just say tune down ranged damage to be more inline with Melee base damage. I may take a bit to try my hand at tweaking some of the rules and lobbing them into the fray even to help promote some idea crafting.

I will take some time to try and recreate my character using the new ruleset here just like i did with your other re-skin of the rules. Just to see if everything works out well. I might even go ahead and do this for a few of the current crews characters just to see if any of the three systems that have been offered up so far favor one build style over another.

Right now i think we are getting a bit too bogged down on changing the rules when we haven't really had time to fully explore the current ruleset and really REALLY stress test it. I learned that as a game designer you don't want your testers to play by the rules, you want them to try their damnedest to bend and twist them until they snap. No offense to Any of the people who have put together the rulesets that we have been looking over recently, they are way more than I would have ever had the confidence or drive to come up with. But we haven't gone through any sort of testing cycles to put the system through it's paces, we're running on almost 100% speculation.
So Maybe... we keep the thread moving, see some more stress marks and then slowly implement more changes instead of performing Grandiose Overhauls?

Also a good thing to try is build your character using your suggested system, see if it works better or even at all if you have to suddenly scrap an entire concept because, well this has the potential to be OP, then you are doing it wrong. Players are going to find ways to make Overpowered characters, whether it be cheating or abusing the system and its wording. That's just a fact of games people will abuse misunderstandings, you can't account for every variable and every kind of mind.

Final thoughts on Rule Suggestions as of now:
I really enjoy the original Semblance creation. I enjoy the 2.0 version of Aura soaking and semblance activation as well as the 2.0 version of Weapon crafting, though it does still need some tweaks here and there. Details can still be hammered out but if we put it down to a vote those are what i enjoy personally.


Inactive

So, let's create an example weapon and semblance.

Example 1:

Range Attack - 3 BPP.
Getting Ranged Attack to RoF 3 takes 6 BPP.

Melee Attack - 2 PP.
Reach and AP cost 1 BPP each. Damage boost costs 2 BPP.

Semblance power (Teleport for example) - 3 BPP.

Extra Power Points adds 5 BPP.
Total BPP spent - 18/20

Result - pretty close to my weapon and semblance.

The superpowers don't have anything close to Spread, Double Tap or Burst Fire as far as I can see. Adding mechanical edges for weapons will take APP, if I understand Super Edge correctly.

Final thoughts - I like the original semblance creation, your updated weapon system (with a bit of tweaking as Azure suggested in her last post, for example making burst a separate option), your aura shielding and semblance activation. I'm not sure how your new idea of lumping semblance and weapon creation into one superpowers pool will work for others so will refrain for now.


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

All right, obviously I've reached the stage of just annoying everyone. I'll just drop it. It was *heh* a long shot.

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

It's not annoying Carmine, but we just need to run things through some paces. The current system does need changes, Semblence shouldn't be something that can be used over and over again i agree, it is meant to be your ace-in the hole to push you above and beyond the opposition. So it should come with drawbacks.

But try one system out before you turn around and try to make sweeping changes to it. I Really Really like the changes of your 2.0 system. Like, legit the only complaint i really have is that v2 Semblence creation felt very watered down. That's the only thing i didn't like off the bat.

The one you just pitched seems like you just turned around and hashed something up real quick cause you didn't think people liked the other one at all. Haven't gone and tried it myself yet so it might actually be better, but it just felt rushed. It may even be more complex when determining weapon modifications.

I would love seeing a mesh of V1 and V2 as i stated in my previous post.


Inactive

Carmine, I agree with Esper. It's not annoying, I like your v2 system, it's just that we need some time. Let's take it in steps. We should test your v2 system, change something, make some improvements, test it again. Not rush to a new one.


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Like I said, I THOUGHT I had a solution that handled everything. Which is why I asked if you'd at least look at my idea. I only meant the new idea was annoying. I didn't expect the radical change option to go over easily. It was... spitballing? Throwing Ruby at the wall and seeing if she sticks? I dunno -_-

As for the V2... Why don't we collect the 'issues' each person is seeing with the weapon system, and I'll try to work from there.

I really think aura use should be a skill though. Then we could do something this with Semblances: "Aura Mastery roll: Hit activates your semblance to use during the current scene, but you take a level of fatigue after. Raise, you don't get fatigue?" (I'm assuming most of us can tell what a 'scene' is) and just use Aloha's original semblance creation setup.
That way you can have it work without costing any Aura, so to speak, but it has a potential cost that won't immediately screw you. And as a skill you can more easily raise it above your spirit die.

And the combat skill thing I suggested sounds interesting but I haven't playtested it. I.E. I have Fighting at D12, and if I have to use the gun form of my weapon instead of having to buy up shooting I could roll my fighting with a -2, since it's this specific weapon I'm so familiar with. It's kinda a quick and dirty workaround, but.. you know. Saves on skill points.


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP
Carmine wrote:
I really think aura use should be a skill though. Then we could do something this with Semblances: "Aura Mastery roll: Hit activates your semblance to use during the current scene, but you take a level of fatigue after. Raise, you don't get fatigue?"

I'm not sure where this came from - I haven't seen *any* objections to rolling to activate the Semblance, just debate over how much it should cost the PC in game terms. Most people agreed that 0 PP was too little. I think 2 PP is too much, but apparently that's just me.

The problem with Fatigue is that it only takes 3 levels of Fatigue to make you Incapacitated, as opposed to 4 levels of Wounds. And if you make the recovery time too short, then we're back to no cost for activating a Semblance. But if you make the recovery time too long, PC's run the risk of fighting with a constant penalty (even a -1 can be significant in SW), or of becoming Incapacitated very easily.

I'm fine staying with a PP cost - the only issue for me is, how much. :)

P.S. - question from before : is Semblance Mastery a Novice-level Edge, no prerequisites?


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Azure: my apologies. The edges are semblance novice, expert, and master.
They are supposed to build off each other, expert needing novice and master needing expert, but i did not include rank requirements. :)

-Posted with Wayfinder


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

Thanks! And I just now noticed the word *skill* in your comment - I think making it a Skill roll instead of a Spirit roll might be a good idea, except we've already allocated our skill points for PC creation, and unless Remnant is willing to *give* us that skill at our current Spirit level, boosting a new skill up to a decent amount would significantly take away from my existing skills.

That's the problem with adding setting Skills in SW, especially *essential* ones - the skill point pool is only so big, so your other skills are going to suffer.

Now, if Remnant would be ok with giving us 18 skill points for PC creation, that would balance out the extra skill.

Unless, of course, Remnant doesn't *want* us to be able to easily boost our Semblance activation die...I mean, as a Skill, we could easily get it up to d12 in just one full Rank of Advances (to the exclusion of anything else, of course).


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

The skill points were considered, which is why I suggested the fix to streamline combat skills.


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

I don't think I'd care for a -2 to *every* Shooting or Fighting roll, no matter how high the die. Even with a d12, a -2 drops the chances of success from 88% to 65%! And with a d8 (more reasonable at starting levels), a -2 drops an 81% chance of success to 48%!


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

True, it does affect the odds a fair bit. A -1 would be better.
And, your primary fighting style wouldn't have the penalty. Just your 'secondary' fighting method.

So if you're like Carmine and do shooting as your primary, your secondary would use shooting, but with a penalty, to do the melee parts.


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

The thing is, I don't want *any* eternal penalty to my "other" attack. That would skew me into always trying to use my primary attack.

*If* activating Semblance becomes a Skill, just give me 3 more skill points to boost it with.

Remnant - what are your thoughts on making activating your Semblance a Skill?


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

I know nobody wants a penalty. :p

It is, as I said, an alternative to spending points on secondary, as I'm already hesitant to give out more skill points. Characters are already plenty powerful as they've been designed, giving them yet more free points would just further tip them out of balance.

Because ultimately, no matter how *this* game goes, I want this pdf to be able to be used by other gm's in other games with as little problems as possible too.


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

In which case, I'd rather have activating Semblance based on a Spirit roll.

A permanent penalty to one combat roll would probably skew most players into using their primary combat roll more often, and the way you've got the Ranged weapon build points set up right now (2d8 damage and Medium Range defaults, Full Auto including Burst Fire for free), most people would probably end up using Shooting as their primary roll, thus violating Remnant's Rule of Cool - why would anyone want to get into melee combat with a Grimm when ranged attacks are so much better?


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Thank you for the feedback Azure. I did say I'm working on fixing the imbalances (and the ranged/melee thing is the worst offender). I'm going to insist that Aura use be a skill roll, however.

I get where you're coming from, please understand. I, also get from a design perspective what needs to be done too. I am still working on making changes, so please be patient with me. :)

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

Might have derailed here myself but, where's this random -2 for fighting/shooting coming from?

Can't we just help balance the Shooting form of the weapons by bumping damage down a die 2d6, so that it falls inline with the base melee stats a bit more instead of trying to balance it out via adding and changing around skills and systems that don't really deal with it?

The combat system itself should probably remain as close to the original as possible to help keep retention between the original SW and the RWBY mod. The game is supposed to be about specialization, characters are supposed to make up for eachother's weaknesses. A strong melee character backs up strong ranged characters, so you should try to make as little base-line benefits to either fighting style.

If anything change around your base weapons instead of your skills/mechanics. If you wanna show melee as more risk-reward bump damage slightly 1d8+STR(was1d6+str) and change ranged to a less risk-reward 2d6(was 2d8). I believe ranged weapons should keep Medium range as a baseline stat because medium implies the average of ranged weaponry and baseline's should also show off the average of the pack.


NPC Wound Tracker:
Peach - 0 Raccoon - 3 Shark - 0
NPC Benny Tracker:
Peach - 3/3 Raccoon 2/3 Shark 1/3

Okay, sorry for the late reply. Trying to get a handle on all the conversation while it keeps moving has been a little rough and I've been strapped for time.

On weapons as written:
Sorry about the misunderstanding over Universal Mods. One of your comments ("Clearly defining there was a universal category was a must; some mods just affected the device no matter what ‘mode’ it was in.") somehow stuck in my mind more so than the actual ruling. I guess I'm still fine with the idea of one form getting 6 points and the other getting 4. The more I think about it, the more I'm not sure it's a necessary change, but it's one that works fine and I'm fairly neutral on it (and it does have some precedents in the show, though it's hard to tell how much of that is Monty running everything on Rule of Cool).

I don't honestly feel that the weapon system needed fixing*. I understand you feel like buying your range was favoring melee, but a powerful long-range weapon is incredibly valuable. Again, the main focus here is fighting Grimm, which with maybe two exceptions I can think of, are exclusively melee fighters. With that said, I would choose between either the 2d8 base damage or free medium weapon range. Both is excessive--and while I figure people playing RWBY would want to embrace Rule of Cool, the power gaming potential of an all-sniper team for eliminating Grimm is hard to ignore.

I am mostly in agreement with Azure on the 4 point cost of Full Auto granting all of those functionalities is excessive and I'm not sure that condensing them was necessary. In several settings I play (IZ2.0 and Deadlands), those functionalities are definitely separate, and some guns will have RoF 2 or 3 but not double-tap, fully automatic, etc.

Again, I'm not sure what actually needed fixing about the old weapon system. If it favored Melee, I feel that it did so to fit the setting. If you would like the ability to favor one form, I'm fine with that. But aside from some minor reorganizing (like splitting mods up by category), I really don't feel like it needed much changing. Others are obviously free to disagree.

On the AB: Hunter/Huntress setup:
Okay, I've got to be honest with you up front: I kind of hate Arcane Backgrounds.** It's my dirty SW GM secret. I will try to keep my bias in check on that, and ultimately as long as everybody has fun, the actual particulars of a system matter less than the story.

Questions: Do PCs start with AB: Huntress/Huntsman for free? How does this affect a character with Weak or Locked Aura?

Minor quibble: Consider renaming it to Combat Training as characters first entering Beacon (with Jaune as the only exception thus far) already have all these abilities (as do characters like Adam and Tyrian who don't seem to be or have been Huntsmen).

Nitpicks: I don't have my Super Powers Companion with me right now, so I haven't gotten to take a good long look at how possible it is to break this system, but I'm assuming it's relatively balanced since it's mostly just using the Super Powers Companion as written with some other stuff thrown in on top. It feels a little more generic to use Attack Powers for weapons, and I felt like a crunchier balancing game between positives and negatives was a good integration of gameplay and storytelling. I'm still not sure what was broken about weapon creation to be honest, but since we're discussing it, using the SPC is way easier to pick up and play. I've already made major bookkeeping mistakes (like Shamrock's realization that he was using the bonuses of another similarly named aug, which I had never noticed) trying to keep track of everybody's weapon.

I was trying to avoid having players splitting their skill points between Fighting, Shooting, and Semblance. I don't like the fix you proposed as I would like people to be able to do both melee and ranged combat. Giving a -2 to fighting with your off-form makes it even less likely for people to use it... And again, to my mind, makes melee even more worthless. Since we are pushing for more of an emphasis on Semblance as more of a boost that you use in a pinch rather than an out-and-out power, I would avoid having it be its own skill--I dislike the idea of people paying tons of points for something that they only want to use once a scene, if at all.

We're going to end up more reliant on Power Points one way or another, so I'm fine with using them for Semblances. That said I am hesitant to have the Semblance last an entire scene as it means you need to start excluding things for balance, which means we start throwing out powers that are incredibly useful when they're indefinite (Intangibility, Invisibility, Quickness, the right combination of Super Skills and Super Edges). That in turn makes another balance nightmare, which is what we're trying to avoid to begin with. (also, it kind of conflicts with your perception of Semblances--if Blake gets all the clones she wants for a whole scene, how on earth does anybody ever hit her once she's activated it?)

I'd propose your PP use as you have it (1PP/5 BPP involved in the Semblance creation), with a standard Semblance duration of 3 rounds. If you use your semblance more than once in a scene/combat, you take a rank of fatigue on success in addition to paying the PP cost. That way you have an impetus not to use your Semblance constantly, you have hard limits (Fatigue, Power Points) to how much you can use it even if you do, and with those hard limits, I feel using Spirit to activate (at a penalty) is reasonably fair.

Instead of having secondary powers/special maneuvers, isn't there a rule in the SPP about Power Stunts, where you can spend a benny to do something your power usually doesn't allow for? That feels like a better rule to institute to me. That also allows for team attacks and stuff that we still haven't really figured out how to implement.

Final Vote:
I would rather run something everybody is interested in, so I feel like I shouldn't vote. I'll break a tie if we end up with one.

That said opinion wise, I like the new Aura Soaking. I like using the SPC to create semblances, with an actual system for doing so instead of just "grab whatever fam, they activate for free indefinitely". I don't like using the SPC for weapon creation, and I would personally prefer sticking with the original system as I feel like it was fine except for bookkeeping, which can be solved by me paying better attention.

Is everybody okay with me continuing the main thread with the original rules until we resolve this?

*After all, I did not muck that one up. :)

**

huge rant on Arcane Backgrounds:
On a 100% personal level, I started playing tabletops with Deadlands Classic. Each Arcane Background in Deadlands was incredibly personalized, and while some stood out as being strong in a role, they felt unique as well as customizable. That was probably the biggest adjustment for me when I started playing Savage Worlds. I understand that the core design ethos for SW is Fast! Furious! Fun! but giving every kind of magic in every kind of setting a slice of the same generic list of powers has always felt a little too rounded off for me. Some settings do a good job of making each one feel unique and I get that trappings are supposed to fill that role, but... Ugh. The way the system is set up, certain powers (looking at you, Quickness) are just objectively better than others, even taking rank requirement into account. Who's going to take Environmental Protection? And even if you do, when are you going to use it? Hell, I took it in Hellfrost (which is all about dealing with the frozen arctic tundra) and it came up once or twice in a three-month campaign.

I know that trappings are supposed to split the difference, but there's no good rules for how to determine the effects of a trapping aside from GM fiat, and in most instances, since there's no good system in place to balance (and I am admittedly Bad at Homebrew, but we already know that) the effects of different trappings, I end up using the generic version of powers with a cool look. But that's unsatisfying to me because your 1-point Frost bolt looks different from my 1-point Lightning bolt, but underneath the coat of paint they are both the same unsatisfying and half-flaccid lay. That's the whole reason I went for the Superpowers companion on semblances. Arcane Backgrounds are boring.


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

I also started on deadlands classic, so sometimes I make the mistake of making an assumption that would have been correct in classic mode, not the new mode. I particularly loved the Junkers from Hell on Earth, and have one that's lived through a very, very long campaign. Now THAT was a list of customizable powers!

I get where you're coming from. I feel that the system needs to be a little more in balance, and neither melee or ranged should be incentivizing the players to pick them from a mechanical benefit position; they should pick which they want because that sounds like fun for them. I don't think you should cripple players who want to do ranged by their weapon not having a 'default' operating stats, since melee does. I think it would be fine if I dropped it to short range and 2d6, but a ranged weapon should start as a ranged weapon.

I was going to toss my proposed AB out entirely, and just salvage the bits from it I liked.

We'd keep the original weapon creation system, (Not the proposed AB one. I'll work out something for the melee/ranged balance) I like the idea of spending a benny to get your semblance to do something 'different', so why not keep that suggestion too.

I feel like I should explain a bit more what I meant by using aura mastery as a skill. This would have been used to also activate dust into powers, but I get that no one wants it.

Anywho, thank you for the feedback. I should be able to put the update together soon.


Inactive
Remnant GM - Team CASE wrote:
Is everybody okay with me continuing the main thread with the original rules until we resolve this?

Totally. I thought we were just discussing future changes, not immediate once.


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

My "votes" :

I like the new Aura Soaking. Using a max of Rank+1 PP per Soak is fine.

I like the old weapon-creation system, altho I think the Ranged weapon should *start* at Short range (for free). Note that this does *not* lower the cost for extending the range!

I like the old way of creating Semblances, since I used core Powers instead of Superpowers. If the new way includes both, I'm ok with it.

I like using Spirit to activate Semblances, I'd prefer it if they only cost 1 PP per activation, and I think an *automatic* point of Fatigue for a second use is too much - perhaps only on a 1 on the Spirit die?

Let's see...does that cover everything? So many things have been thrown around...

And I'm fine with using the current system for now (but looking forward to the new Aura Soaking rules!).


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Yeah, I thought we're still using the current system until everything is peachy between me and Aloha on the new changes.

Azure, your votes are pretty much spot-on for what I'm thinking, though I still want to tinker with the weapon system. I think the fatigue level on a 1 on the spirit die also seems to be in line for the game, so sure, sounds good to me.

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

My Votes:

I like the new Aura Soak system, makes it feel a bit less punishing for relying on your main protection beyond flat toughness while also adding in a sense of progression of character.

I like the 2nd weapon creation system with the base stats and the more concise mods my only change since it's been mentioned by Carmine is that we bump ranged down to 2d6(Short) to be more beside melee weapons.

If we stick with the 1st version I highly request that ranged weapons start with Short range for Free because otherwise it doesn't start as a ranged weapon which is just silly.

I Would like to see the Old system of Semblance creation, it felt free'er and didn't rope us in with a single power that would only differ from other powers of the same variety by looks.

I like the Use of Spirit die for semblance activation, no need to add unnecessary complexity, but i can also see why a skill would be useful since you can only upgrade one(1) attribute per rank. I would agree to the 1 point of fatigue after a second use within a battle, if there are also edges added that allow for multiple uses within one fight scene or extend the duration period of 3 rounds. I suggest this because it doesn't make much sense for some semblances, i'll use Shamrock for instance if that's okay who teleports, if he's in a good position after one round and doesn't want to teleport there goes a round of his semblance duration for the match.

Other bits and notes

Example of edge for aura activation: Aural Endurance- Mastery over ones aura allows them to reduce the amount of stress on their body and become an even more powerful Hunter. A huntsman/huntress is able to use their semblance one(1) additional time during a combat encounter.

On the subject of spending bennies to make our semblance do other powers, i believe that was within the first iteration of the RWBY book. We can use dust to change how our powers function, not sure off the top of my head if it said we need to spend a benny too, but i figure you've already spent the money on the dust and have to use a considerable amount which might be wasted on a failure. Why have us also spend a benny?

Banning Semblances? I really suggest against banning any semblance that fits within the setting, life drain is one i'm personally okay with because we haven't seen any real mention of anything like that.. I could say some grimm(like the parasite) might have special aura drain or power drain abilities but that's a special case. Referring back to my argument using Ruby as an example should be enough reason to show why banning intangibility would be unreasonable.


Inactive

My votes:
- New Aura Soak.

- 2nd weapon system with proposed changes (bumped down damage and divided burst-fire and RoF).

- Old Semblance creation system.

- Fatigue after second use in battle and 3-round duration sound intriguing.


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

"And now back to our regularly scheduled game, already in progress"...???

Scarab Sages

Female Fanus(Hyena); Tail, Large Teeth, Amber-orange eyes Huntress/Nov; Pa:7; Tough:6(+1R); Fight d8; Shoot :d6; Notice:d6; PP10 Ben:2

I was thinking we'd continue forward anyway and discuss while moving the thread forward and just make a final call at the end of this one heh. Sucks that Raz's weapon blew up in his face, and i have a creeping suspicion he won't accept an offer to help fix it from his perceived 'rivals'


Wounds: 0; Fatigue 0; Power Points: 10/10; Pace: 6; Charisma: +0; Agility d8 Smarts d10 Spirit d6 Strength d4 Vigor d6 Dustcraft d10 Fighting d4 Knowledge: Weaponcrafting d10 Notice d6 Repair d4 Shooting d8

Yes, please let's not let my inner designer ruin a fun game! :D


NPC Wound Tracker:
Peach - 0 Raccoon - 3 Shark - 0
NPC Benny Tracker:
Peach - 3/3 Raccoon 2/3 Shark 1/3

Yeah, my bad. Finally updated. I have a few more thoughts to clarify on rules changes but I'll get to those once I have free time at home again.

My fiance is going through ALS (Air Force NCO school) right now so I'm holding down the homefront in addition to everything else--hopefully everything will be smoothing out and calming down within the next couple of weeks.

Oh, and since Rungok brought it up in the team SBOT thread: my method for card draw is random.org right now. I draw for everyone in alphabetical order and then sort into initiative order when I make the post. :)


Female Human Huntress/Novice; Parry=7; Toughness=8(2); Fighting=d10; Shooting=d10, Notice=d6; 15 PP

Remnant - I'd like to discuss Wild Attacking for a minute...

Everyone who's played SW for any length of time learns real quick that Wild Attacking is *great* for a 1-on-1 fight. And I've written a simulator program that shows that consistently using Wild Attack gives the user a 10% better chance of winning a 1-on-1 combat.

So if one combatant uses Wild Attack, the other should too, to balance things out. That results in a *lot* of +2's and -2's (which need to be remembered from the previous round!) being thrown about.

One solution I figured out is if you make the Parry penalty -3, then the Wild Attacker is *still* doing more damage, but has no better odds of winning in a 1-on-1 combat. This still makes Wild attack useful against high-Parry and/or high-Toughness opponents, but not so good that everyone would use it all the time.

Or, using it could be turned into an Edge, like Frenzy or Sweep.

Whatdayathink?


Inactive

Sorry but I won't be able to post until Monday, at least - the part-time I took turned out to be quite time-consuming. But that's just for two more days. Three max.


NPC Wound Tracker:
Peach - 0 Raccoon - 3 Shark - 0
NPC Benny Tracker:
Peach - 3/3 Raccoon 2/3 Shark 1/3

Woops, I had a whole post about Wild Attacking that I guess never went through...

Basically, while a Wild Attack is great for a 1-on-1 fight, I feel that in SW you shouldn't generally have a 1-on-1 fight. One of the things the system excels at is running tons and tons of extras at once. So if you (extreme example) Wild Attack on the high card and get dealt the low card next round of initiative, you are potentially letting every enemy in the combat take a swing at you with your lowered parry... Twice. To me, it's a risky, desperate maneuver that usually results in you getting dog-piled. It's also the only way for people with low fighting who have already taken multiple wounds to try and even up the score and still contribute to a group fight.

If you do have a 1-on-1 fight and it devolves into two people throwing haymakers until somebody drops, that's also the climax of every 90s action movie, which is another thing that SW excels at simulating.

Particularly in this setting where there's a bit of a melee focus (to me, at least) and there's a huge variety of edges you can stack to give yourself more advantages and options, I don't feel that changing Wild Attacks is terribly necessary. For example, in the team SBOT thread, once Tana hits around 10 XP (and I stack Grab/another Die Type of Vigor on top of Takedown), I fully plan to never Wild Attack with her again. She'll be too busy throwing dudes. ;) (And reducing her parry for any reason hurts her chief function as a big buff cheeto puff/distraction machine).

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