We Who Are About To Die... (Inactive)

Game Master Doomed Hero

Joboo wrote:

and I forgot that DM DH gave Joboo a +1 morale bonus to a check of his choosing. I'll apply that to the AoO roll then making it a 18.

... does that bonus work differently from every other one-shot bonus, where you have to say you're using it before you make the roll?

(I mean, you're on my team, but that just doesn't seem right. It's DM DH's bonus though, so if that's how he wants it to work...)

Forgot something during the Round Update-

Joboo, your exploits during the crash were impressive. Enjoy a +1 morale bonus to one roll of your choice.

nuff said? how is that unfair? Now we're going to debate how a goblin getting a +1 to one roll is an unfair advantage against a drow noble?

please, this is quickly becoming not fun.

Just a quick FYI - I'll be out of town and away from the internet for about 48 hours from the time of this post. Disappearing into the suburbs for the weekend.

I should be back well in time to post actions for the next round update.

You know what, forget I got involved, this is why I've been avoiding taking part in the discussion thread, rules arguments get too heated in PVP.

no, i wont forget that you got involved. You always have valid points, are well versed in RAW and are typically helpful. You stated an opinion. I replied with DM DH's post giving me the +1 bonus. I dont feel any heat in this discussion.

in that rounds actions I had already used the +1 on my bluff attempt at feinting against Chess. Since I didnt get to use that action I dont see how its out of line to apply the +1 to that. This is my opinion.

It doesnt matter either way. DM DH will decide and we'll go from there.

Everyone

Joboo raises a good question. Honestly, I don't really care either way as long as it's the same for everyone.

The nature of things on this board mean that anyone with modular adjustments can already roll first and decide what to use when they see the results. The edit button allows that and I think everyone knows it. It doesn't bother me.

Likewise, if joboo had remembered the bonus within the hour he's alloted to edit, he could have just slipped it in and I doubt anyone would have noticed or cared. People forget bonuses and make edits all the time.

So what he's asking me for is an official policy to do something that players already pretty much have the power to do. The only difference is that this is for a modular bonus that can be applied to any roll. Allowing it to be applied after the roll makes those bonuses a lot more valuable, but realistically, anyone can already do that. The ethics of one person doing it when another person wouldn't are arguable, but I think as long as everyone's on the same page about it there shouldn't be any problem.

I'm incline to say it's fine, but I want to let everyone have a chance to voice their opinions.

Since the round update didn't happen last night I had planned on doing it tonight (about 9 hours from this post).

Everyone has that long to chime in and give their opinions. Argue away, but keep it civil please.

I have no issue with it either way you want to run it.

It doesn't bother me, it is hard to remember everything all the time especially when it is days later or whatever. Sitting at the table the +1 morale bonus is fresh in everyone's mind.

Take this round for me. I had planned after almost getting shot last round to say I was going to try and duck the best I could to get some cover. Gwrrr posted his action before I posted it so I can see someone interpreting it that I only thought of it after he posted. I am ok with ruling against me and getting shot ending the race for me. Its ok to lose, most everyone will.

I think out all my actions and get everything ready before I see my rolls as that is only fair (though I do edit the flavor paragraph depending on my results).

Most of all this is a fun game and I am pretty much ok with anything as long as it makes sense and it isn't abused.

Well, we have to trust our players in this environment. If you say you were honestly going to try to duck for some cover, I'd have no problem with DM DH granting you partial cover. If we can't trust people not to metagame, the whole exercise is pretty pointless.

I actually hadn't noticed that you are earlier than me in the init order, though we have been told that we don't wait for posts in order, everybody just posts at the same time. So I posted my shot, your state when the shot arrives is not my business, it is the business of DH and yourself.

No issues on my end.

lot of tissues on my end

O_o

Well, we have to trust our players in this environment. If you say you were honestly going to try to duck for some cover, I'd have no problem with DM DH granting you partial cover. If we can't trust people not to metagame, the whole exercise is pretty pointless.

I actually hadn't noticed that you are earlier than me in the init order, though we have been told that we don't wait for posts in order, everybody just posts at the same time. So I posted my shot, your state when the shot arrives is not my business, it is the business of DH and yourself.

Thanks, I figured after last round another shot would be coming and it is only a matter of time before I get hit again anyways. I just didn't want any hard feelings.

Now I just need to figure out how to drive and shoot the weapon at the same time.

I'm fine with it. If we can't give each other the benefit of the doubt, then we shouldn't really be playing pvp, in my book.

That being said, I thought weather or not Joboo hitting or not was a moot point. Isn't Joboo in the snow about 50 back down the track? If he used his feat to avoid damage, then he would have rolled 10' off the sled. That's what I thought happened, and I thought when I recapped, Doomed agreed with me?

If Joboo is on the sled, he couldn't have used his feat to avoid damage, unless we're changing the rules. I'm ok with that if we are, especially for good reason. But a couple of turns ago, both me and Mel spent our whole turns dealing with him as threat, and I don't think he should get a free ride for that. That being said, it's really no a big deal to me, and I'm having fun, though at this point I'm starting to get more excited about the next rounds offerings than the out come of this current round. Chess might be a little more reckless than otherwise if faced with a safe bet or a crowd pleaser at this point.

If DM Doomed rules that Joboo is on the sled with full hp, that's fine. Chess's turn goes first though, and he did cast dazzling blade defensively and use it to try and blind Joboo. It's a DC 14 will save, or he becomes blinded. If he's blinded, he can't make attacks of opportunity as Chess stands, loses dex to AC and takes a -2 penalty to that AC. Chess is actually flanking Joboo with Mel seeing as her hair threatens, so that confirms chess's critical, which Joboo didn't roll high enough to roll with it. So, if he fails the save, he's knocked unconscious. If he makes the save, he deals a glancing blow to chess, who takes 3 damage, and rolls with it 10' in a direction of his choosing.

I don't have anything else to do in game this round, these are just my two cents.

[Rant start]
My AoO happens before your spell. Its an immediate action as a result of your move action to stand up. And no your critical did not hit even with the flanking. My AC is 15 (with Dex penalties) and your roll was a 10 + 2 = 12. Still short of the mark.

There's nothing listed in your post that says I was the target of a spell or I would have acted thusly. You cast the spell but never said you discharged it. You can cast a spell and attack in the same round? After youve already used a move action? And then actively using Perception which is another Move action?

Is Power Attack and Dervish Dance really stackable? Those two feats seem completely counter productive. Plus it doesnt look like you applied the -1 to attack that Power Attack requires. You still hit me but this could be crutial in the rounds to come.

I realize that alot of this confusion is from us posting out of turn. I wanted to wait for you to post because you were my intended target but had to retire for the night. DM DH said there was going to be an update that night and I didnt want to lose out on that rounds actions. The not being able to attack those ahead of you in the initiative order is a huge hurdle when those in front of you wait til affter every one else has gone. This was mentioned along time ago and is not the first time this has happened but its having the same results. Confusion and retconned actions which end up raising more questions, delays and confusion. My HP total should not have held up the game for 3 days. That is metagame knowledge that unless you have a spell or ability to monitor you would never know nor should it affect your actions. Maybe you could spend yet another Move action to use Perception to determine a general idea of how Im doing but otherwise its not free information. Knowing where I was would matter but DM DH had already posted this information and didnt seem inclined to change it. You think I wanted to end up in the middle of you two? [rant end]

Chess, Joboo is on the sled between you and Mel. He got knocked onto Varniel's sled by his use of Roll With It (that was the result of our previous discussion), and then the course of the crash took him into the square he's now in. He didn't mean to end up there. He made his save to avoid damage from the crash (with a big, impressive check) and ended up landing between you two.

As for the AoO, Joboo is correct. The AoO is from you standing, which happened before you cast the spell. After the AoO resolves, your spell and attack happen normally. It looks like you'd hit Joboo and probably send him flying, but he'd still have to make his save against the spell.

Joboo, Dervish Dance and Power Attack do stack. Dazzling Blade is a swift action to cast. It's designed to be cast as part of an attack action. I monitor Action Economy pretty tightly. Chess hasn't tried to do more than he's able.

The question of if he notices if you're hurt or not is moot. Noticing basic environmental factors, like if the guy in front of you is obviously wounded, is a free action spot check at DC: Stupid Easy. A move action spot check represents taking more time to deliberately find more details or double check things. Not even you knew if you were wounded, based on the question marks on your HP total, so IMO his question was a valid one.

It looks like the consensus is that floating bonuses can be applied after dice have been rolled.

Based on that, it looks like you hit Chess when he stood, then he hit you, at which point you'll need to apply Roll With It and make a save against Dazzling Blade.

Edit: Looks like Roll With It didn't work. That means you're still in the same place. I think you still have a Standard action that you hadn't taken because you were waiting on the results of your AoO.

To answer your points one at at a time.

There's nothing listed in your post that says I was the target of a spell or I would have acted thusly. You cast the spell but never said you discharged it. You can cast a spell and attack in the same round? After youve already used a move action? And then actively using Perception which is another Move action?

Chess would have known that he would leave himself open to using attack if he stood, so he would have casted the spell (which I did) defensively. What I forgot to do was target you and ask you for a will save. I apologize, I was tired, and also worried about missing out on the round post. As I said earlier, I was making the post in the case that you were in fact above me, I was prone, and you were at full hp. I still don't believe that's where you should be, so I wasn't as thorough as I usually would be, being tired, rushed, confused, and having waited several days to figure this all out. This has not been my most fun round, and I look forward to being done with it.

My AoO happens before your spell. Its an immediate action as a result of your move action to stand up. And no your critical did not hit even with the flanking. My AC is 15 (with Dex penalties) and your roll was a 10 + 2 = 12. Still short of the mark.

If I casted prone, which I meant to do, my spell happens before the attack of the opportunity. If you fail the save, then you are blinded, lose you dex to AC, and take a further minus two penalty to AC. My hit becomes a 12, your AC drops down to 11. If, and only if you fail the save.

Is Power Attack and Dervish Dance really stackable? Those two feats seem completely counter productive. Plus it doesnt look like you applied the -1 to attack that Power Attack requires. You still hit me but this could be crutial in the rounds to come.

I can't really argue about the physics of D&D in any form. They are inherently flawed, and the feats do work together. Normally Chess wouldn't have enough strength to use power attack, but it was granted as a bonus feat. I did apply the penalty.

I realize that alot of this confusion is from us posting out of turn. I wanted to wait for you to post because you were my intended target but had to retire for the night. DM DH said there was going to be an update that night and I didnt want to lose out on that rounds actions. The not being able to attack those ahead of you in the initiative order is a huge hurdle when those in front of you wait til affter every one else has gone. This was mentioned along time ago and is not the first time this has happened but its having the same results. Confusion and retconned actions which end up raising more questions, delays and confusion. My HP total should not have held up the game for 3 days. That is metagame knowledge that unless you have a spell or ability to monitor you would never know nor should it affect your actions. Maybe you could spend yet another Move action to use Perception to determine a general idea of how Im doing but otherwise its not free information. Knowing where I was would matter but DM DH had already posted this information and didnt seem inclined to change it. You think I wanted to end up in the middle of you two? [rant end]

A couple of rounds ago, I acted right in the beginning of the initiative order and posted my turn, along with my hopeful reactions for the rest of the turn all at once. I was accused of meta-gaming and trying to take more actions that I should be able to, even though I was polite as possible, and tried to make it clear that these were only intended actions. This wasn't fun for me, or I imagine at least several other players, and our DM. Drama is silly, and we're grown ups. I'm not trying to cheat anyone, and you'll have to take my word for it, same as we all have to do each round. Because of all the kerfuffle when I posted everything up front, I tried to ask my questions at the beginning of this round and hoped I'd hear back soon. You're right, it shouldn't have taken three days to happen, and I share your frustrations here. However, real life happens, and you didn't even see my question for you in the first place, until a day had passed. We had never resolved a complicated issue from several rounds ago, and had to deal with it now. Initiative and a lot of other things are a mess in PVP play by post, and we have to do our best with them, and as DM Doomed requested, count on him to settle any disputes or troubles. I've done just that, and tried to help the process as much as possible, and I am sorry if I've added to the chaos.

As far as exact hit point go, that is meta game knowledge, but it's real life knowing if your opponent has a huge gash on their chest or no damage at all. Question marks instead of hitpoints confused me, so I asked, with absolutely no clue what I was getting myself into. Now that I am into this mess, I have taken the time out of my life to sort it through as clearly as possible, and listen to everyone's points, views, and feelings as they have been shared. I'm just a little compulsive and I can't help myself in that regard.

Honestly, I hope we can move past this soon. I'm willing to talk *more* about this, but I'd really rather not. This is getting silly, and I'm starting to get frustrated. Also, if it really bothers people that I'm playing a drow noble (of which I don't think I've had any unfair advantage so far, my spell like abilities have been only used to help other team mates, costing me actions due to role-playing favor. The stats have only been higher than say a goblins in a mental regard, which I don't think has been game breaking, and my SR hasn't even been mentioned) I can roll up another character or some such. It's just stress for me if it's a problem for others.

I got ninja'd here by Doomed. *waves*
I'd just like to highlight from my above monster of a reply that I did mean to cast the spell while prone. It's a 1 min/caster level spell, and discharging it is a free action. If you look at the non stats post that I made, I think it's clear that I meant to cast the spell before I stood.

Chess casts Wall Of Text.

Chess, no, that was not clear to me, or to Joboo. It makes sense that you would want to do that under the circumstances, but it was not clearly stated.

In the future, err on the side of more description, especially in the mechanical breakdown.

Chess, no, that was not clear to me, or to Joboo. It makes sense that you would want to do that under the circumstances, but it was not clearly stated.

In the future, err on the side of more description, especially in the mechanical breakdown.

Committed to memory. Again, sorry. It was way past my bedtime.

A couple things to remember too, swift action spells don't provoke

Being prone gives you -4 to AC from melee and -4 to melee attack

A couple things to remember too, swift action spells don't provoke

Being prone gives you -4 to AC from melee and -4 to melee attack

I actually didn't know that about swift action spells. Thank you!

Ryujin Tatsu wrote:

A couple things to remember too, swift action spells don't provoke

Being prone gives you -4 to AC from melee and -4 to melee attack

I actually didn't know that about swift action spells. Thank you!

When you stand, is the attack of opportunity made against the prone AC or the standing AC? It makes the difference between a glancing blow and a sure one.

Prone AC. It happens before you stand up (thus you can't be tripped while prone)

Chessna'ra wrote:

Ryujin Tatsu wrote:

A couple things to remember too, swift action spells don't provoke

Being prone gives you -4 to AC from melee and -4 to melee attack

I actually didn't know that about swift action spells. Thank you!

When you stand, is the attack of opportunity made against the prone AC or the standing AC? It makes the difference between a glancing blow and a sure one.

Prone AC. It happens before you stand up (thus you can't be tripped while prone)

It was as if a million voices of tripper builds cried out all at once, and then went silent...

So it looks like it hinges on Joboo's save.

As a note, Joboo can still take AoOs while blind. He still threatens normally. It's just that his targets are considered to have full concealment. Even if your spell goes off he may still hit you normally. (50% chance to miss)

Joboo, can you give me a save vs. Chess' spell?

Actually I don't believe you can makes attacks of opportunity against foes with cover, concealment, or total concealment.

Blindness didn't mention it. Just looked at total concealment. You're correct.

I've been brainstorming ways to avoid the kinds of discussions that have been holding up the game and I think I have a solution.

Starting after then next round update, I'd like people to post their intended action in the Discussion thread (without rolls), and not to post in the Gameplay thread.

That will allow things like initiative order and AoOs to be sorted out and for the round's actions to be gone over before they become "finalized" in the gameplay thread.

Once everyone's actions are posted in Discussion and any issues have been resolved, everyone can post an action description in the gameplay thread with the necessary rolls to figure out the results.

What this will mean is that we won't need as many spoilers. Just give me a concise description here in Discussion with a Round X Action header.

I figure if everyone posts on one day and I give one more day to sort out any issues before doing a round update, we'll actually be updating more often than we are right now, and probably avoid some of the tension that has been popping up.

So, the new order and posting protocol will be

1) Post actions in Discussion thread without rolls.
2) Discuss complications and results of those actions where necessary.
3) Post in the gameplay thread with rolls at the top, under spoilers
4) Round update.

Any questions?

[...]lot of stuff that will invoke 34 posts with questions[...]

Any questions?

you funny man! ;)

If that doesn't work we should try changing intitiative order to who's most likely to post first :p

Will Save - 1d20 ⇒ 18

Nice save Joboo. Glad to finally get this behind us. AOO of resolves, I take 7 damage, dropping me to 2. I hit you, no critical, you negate the damage and roll 10' in the direction of your choosing and are staggered next round. Where Shalt Thou Roll To?

DM Doomed, sounds great!

Ryujin, I decided to allow your cover. It makes sense. You're still up.

Joboo, you're still uninjured, though you are in danger of being trampled. Better move quick.

Zib, your ape is trained to respond, so more than 5 is a success. That being said, your margin wasn't exactly great. It's moving, but you're not really in control. You're going to have to figure out a way to exert some kind of leverage on it. Also, the other monkeysheep is chasing you.

Zar'zan, The free monkeysheep's focus went from you to the other one. They're now fighting right next to you. You can take an AoO if you want since the green one did charge past you.

Mel, you just got yanked a little ways away on the wreckage of your sled. Hanging on/balancing is possible but difficult due to the damage.

Everyone, please check the new posting policy listed above, in case you missed it.

I would like to post the next round update on Monday or Tuesday night. Everyone has until Monday to post their intended actions here in Discussion, and talk about any complications. Once complications and questions are worked out you are free to post your description and rolls in Gameplay. Once everyone's posted in Gameplay I'll do a round update.

Everyone cool if I have Zar'zan attack a Monkey Sheep?

Zar'zan should go for it in my opinion. With your charisma score, it's only a matter of time before they decide they dislike him more than each other. =p

Doomed, just mildly confused with the round update. You said that I helped mel to her feet, which is definitely something I would have done, but on the map I'm behind on the tail end of the wreckage which looks to be separated? Would it be alright with everyone if Chess was up next to Mel, having taken a 5-foot step after knocking the goblin aside?

If so, my intent for the round will be to have Chess cast levitate on Mel, and see if he can't get both of them over onto Severus's sled. Back on track!

Chess, joboo was between you. After you had knocked him away you could definitely have 5' adjusted. I'll allow it since it really makes no difference to the results. You see, after you hit Joboo and helped Mel up, Mel got dragged away. She was standing on a part of the sled that was still attached to the monkeysheep. When it went after the one Zib roped, she went with it. I've moved you on the map to the square Joboo just vacated.

Everyone cool if I have Zar'zan attack a Monkey Sheep?

Effects no one else. Have at it.

You should get an AoO, and then your standard action as well if you want to take another swing

Alright, not tonight, but I want to figure out how I can get on Severus's sled from here. What am I looking at? If I make a move action AG 5 (only moving half speed because of snow) can I use the last 5 feet for the turn to grab Severus's arm and sling onto the sled, behind him? Or can I just ready an action to do the same thing when he comes by?

Ryujin, I decided to allow your cover. It makes sense. You're still up.

BTW how much cover did he have? From what I can see, cover would give him an AC of 19 (10 +3dex +2wis +1 dodge -1 numbing +4 cover), and my attack hit a 19. I may be missing something.

By the way Zib, Chess's levitate spell will wear off at the end of round 14.

Chess's intended actions for this round will be,
fort save
Cast dazzling blade as a swift action (not discharging this round)
Make disarm attempt on Joboo as a standard action so as to not provoke attack of opportunity for movement.
Move 10 feet to AG 5 and hop up/take a hand up from Severus onto the sled.

Joboo is staggered, correct?

DM Doomed Hero wrote:

Ryujin, I decided to allow your cover. It makes sense. You're still up.

BTW how much cover did he have? From what I can see, cover would give him an AC of 19 (10 +3dex +2wis +1 dodge -1 numbing +4 cover), and my attack hit a 19. I may be missing something.

The sled doesn't provide a lot of cover. To do it he woudl have had to drop prone, so I assumed he did that. I tacked on prone bonus and a +2 (half usual soft cover). I should have spelled that out, but I forgo to add it to the end of the OOC description.

Ryujin Forgot to add that you are prone. Only way to take cover on the sled.

By the way Zib, Chess's levitate spell will wear off at the end of round 14.

Not that zib has any in game way of knowing that.

Ryujin Forgot to add that you are prone. Only way to take cover on the sled.

Does that add a dc for ride or require acrobatics roll this round to stand out just take up a move action?

Lorth will be going over the jump.
Only action is move to hold on and direct Magnus.

As for the plan to posting actions here for discussion and approval before being allowed to post them on main thread - I personally don't like it, and can't personally see how it will really stop the back and forth on polishing and revising actions.

That said, I'm willing to give it benefit of the doubt and see how it goes in practice.

As for the plan to posting actions here for discussion and approval before being allowed to post them on main thread - I personally don't like it, and can't personally see how it will really stop the back and forth on polishing and revising actions.

That said, I'm willing to give it benefit of the doubt and see how it goes in practice.

I agree with Lorth, both the first (initiative order is still an issue I'd guess) and second part.

Lorn will pick up speed again and move the sleigh to O8, taking 10 on the ride check.

I'm going to move to square AE4. Since I can get there by moving from my Sled to Severus' sled without having to go in the snow, does that make it easier balance-wise?

For Severus' turn, can he standard action order his camel to attack Joboo and move action make a ride check? (Also, are Severus' chains off? I assumed he had been using his past several standard actions to strike them off).

I'm going to move to square AE4. Since I can get there by moving from my Sled to Severus' sled without having to go in the snow, does that make it easier balance-wise?

For Severus' turn, can he standard action order his camel to attack Joboo and move action make a ride check? (Also, are Severus' chains off? I assumed he had been using his past several standard actions to strike them off).

Oh, and I don't know if I need to say this here or not, but I'm also going to drop prone in that square when I get there.

Isnt Severus's sled already past Joboo?

If so, Joboo's intent this round will be to attempt to grab the back end of Severus's sled if possible if Chess moves away from him. If not he'll attack the drow.

Isnt Severus's sled already past Joboo?

If so, Joboo's intent this round will be to attempt to grab the back end of Severus's sled if possible if Chess moves away from him. If not he'll attack the drow.

Actually, his sled is turned around and the camel is right next to you, not the sled.

Zar'zan just can not get a break with moving around in the slush and I had him roll as he's in a combat oriented situation.

And the Total Defense has been preventing him from getting Attacks of Opportunity so I did not have him take one.