WR PATRIOT, Inc.

Game Master ZenFox42

Vampires, Zombies, Werewolves and Apple Pie – A Savage Worlds Adventure.

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This is the discussion tab where you guys can iron out your character concepts and builds.


Ray, just so we're on the same page - I couldn't find anything in the Deluxe edition about "Repel Evil". But I did find the Holy Warrior Edge which allows a "Repulse Evil" which mechanically is the same as the Confusion Power (except that Confusion can't destroy an evil creature if it "fumbles" its "save").

But that brings up another question - I get that in SW, Powers are "generic" so that say, Blast can do fire or acid or cold damage. But does a PC with Blast pick the kind of damage once, and that's what he always does when he uses Blast, or can the PC pick the damage type at casting time?

The reason I ask is that I'm not looking for a kind of Confusion that affects only supernatural things, but one Power that affects both humans and supernaturals. Is that what you were suggesting, too?

My gear has an extra 50 bullets, two filled clips (in my pockets), a butane lighter, a mini-flashlight, 10' of heavy twine, a multi-tool, a dozen long zip-ties, and a Swiss army knife.


Novice (16 XP) | Parry 7, Toughness 9 (2) | 0 Wounds | 3 Bennies

Dotting in here so I get updates. I'm also potentially changing around Gavril's gear, as the digital camera's a holdover from when he had a related Hindrance. I'll probably end up getting a flak jacket for protection, but other than that I don't need much.


Bennies: 3/3 | Wounds: 0

And little need of a dedicated camera for casual use anymore anyway, since most smartphones have 'em.

At least I presume PATRIOT wouldn't be so stingy as to assign us smartphones lacking decent cameras.

Oi! Nathan! These things you're gonna give us... Android, iOS, or Windows Mobile? And they bloody well better come with combat-ready cases!


Male Human Rogue 2
Stats:
HP 11/11 | AC 15 | HD 2/2d6 | Init +2| Spd 30ft.| STR 9 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 12 WIS 8 CHA 5; Prof +1 |Rapier +3/1d8+2| Shortbow +3/1d6+2 {37 arrows}

ZenFox42, basically the idea is to create a spell that you can cast over and over again. Different powers can have the same effect, but do different things.

You wouldn't cast confusion. You would cast a spell with the confusion effect. The "Repel Evil" was meant to show an example of that kind of thinking. I should have been clearer.

Mechanically, you can indeed use confusion on undead and the living. Just come up with a concept of a spell that would work for both that has the right flavoring and or trapping.

And, my understanding is that spells need to be specific. So you'll need to customize your blast into a single thing.

Now I understand that this leaves you with a small pool of spells to choose from. But those are spells that you cast quickly in combat. You could still perform rituals to do other effects.

And, yes, The Hummer is okay. Just use the stats for the SUV and we're good to go.

-Posted with Wayfinder


Female Spooky

Okay, I've posted, still need to check over and get some gear...


Bennies: 3/3 | Wounds: 0
Gavril Vasilescu wrote:
Oh, I see how it is...

Well it just sort of happened. I didn't mean to start a trend, I was merely trying to avoid "Dot."

Hopefully WR won't be too upset that we caught him sleeping *snicker* and started the first scene without him. But really, what else would the new hires do but show up for their orientation/first assignment briefing? I guess if he doesn't pick up the ball soon we'll just run Nathan for him too, haha. How do y'all feel about hiring bonuses? :o)

Romanian, Gavril? Really... interesting. And with that OCD way you parked and reparked until you got things "just so," I think you and Nate will get along just fine (so long as you don't disagree on the sorting order of the magazines).

And I just realized... Nathan and Nate, O'Callaghan and McCulligan. I guess y'all picked really great names and they seeped into my subconscious. Or something.


Ray, here's my first attempt at describing my Powers :

"Shield" (Deflection) : a translucent, movie-medieval-looking shield appears in front of the recipient. It hovers about 12" in front of the person, constantly moving to and fro, and instantly moves into position to block an incoming attack.

"Daze" (Confusion) : a ball of light quickly grows from a pinpoint to a baseball-sized sphere a few inches in front of the face of the target (to get their attention), then explodes in a flash of white light.

"Revivify" (Succor) : by slapping someone, the target either : loses a level of Fatigue, recovers from Shaken, or if they are Incapacitated brings them back to consciousness. (The first time it happened he was slapping someone, and it appears to only work that way.)

Is that what you're looking for?


Could anyone familiar with SW please look this over and let me know if anything is missing or incorrect :

Joker : +2 to Attack and Damage rolls
* = die roll can Ace/explode

ATTACK
Roll appropriate attack die* and d6*, take the better of the two; can spend a Bennie to re-roll
Compare to (target's Parry) or (4-range penalty) as appropriate
Success : roll damage
Any raises : add one d6 to the damage

DAMAGE
Roll weapon die*; add Strength die* if hand-held; add d6* if Attack roll raised
Compare to target's Toughness + (Armor - weapon's AP)...[(Armor-AP) can't be < 0]
Success : target is Shaken, or if already Shaken, takes a wound
Each raise : add another wound
Target can spend a Bennie to remove Shaken, or to make a Vigor check to remove a wound (raises remove more wounds)

Is that the basics of melee (ignoring multi-actions and multi-shot guns, etc.)? Thanks!


Male Human

This is ZenFox, testing my new alias...

Best pic I could find - he's not THAT overweight or ugly, and definitely not a smoker, but what can you do? :)

Will fill in his info in the Profile in the next day or two...


Male Human Rogue 2
Stats:
HP 11/11 | AC 15 | HD 2/2d6 | Init +2| Spd 30ft.| STR 9 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 12 WIS 8 CHA 5; Prof +1 |Rapier +3/1d8+2| Shortbow +3/1d6+2 {37 arrows}

Alright, Zen, those powers should work fine. I believe that the other stuff you wrote is also correct. At least as far as I can remember at the top of my head.

I'll have a post ready to go by tomorrow, so everyone try to bring it in, if you can. Seriously I love how into this you're all getting.

-- WR

-Posted with Wayfinder


I decided to jump the gun and post today.


Bennies: 3/3 | Wounds: 0
John Smith42 wrote:
Best pic I could find...

Yeah, Paizo's avatars are woefully inadequate in some categories. Kitsune is one. Anything that passes for modern-day human is another.


Male Human

I have a background in math and programming, so every time I meet a new system I like to analyze it to see how it works.

If John was shot by a Glock at point-blank range while wearing his Kevlar armor, here's the results :

He'd be hit 80% of the time!

Of all hits :
He'd end up shaken 60% of the time, but have a 20% chance to recover on his next turn, and an 8% chance of also being able to act.

He'd take no wounds 70% of the time
He'd take 1 wound 17% of the time
He'd take 2 wounds 7% of the time
He'd take 3 wounds 3% of the time
(After including incapacitation below, this doesn't quite add up to 100% due to rounding)

He'd be incapacitated by a single shot 2% of the time! Once incapacitated :
He'd have a 44%(!) chance of dying.
He'd have a 24% chance of entering bleeding out.
(Haven't figured his chances for once he enters bleeding out)


Male Human Rogue 2
Stats:
HP 11/11 | AC 15 | HD 2/2d6 | Init +2| Spd 30ft.| STR 9 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 12 WIS 8 CHA 5; Prof +1 |Rapier +3/1d8+2| Shortbow +3/1d6+2 {37 arrows}

This system is notoriously deadly. This is why Bennies are very important. Remember, everyone, you have 3 of them right now.

But the odds are definitely in your favor to do cool stuff. That's why battles in SW tend to be, well, big. It's not uncommon to face a large number of foes in a battle.

-Posted with Wayfinder


Bennies: 3/3 | Wounds: 0

I know these systems aren't about "realism" but that sounds pretty reasonable to me. Glocks come in different calibers but I can see even a "small" 10mm round point-blank into a Kevlar vest causing serious blunt force trauma injuries.

Something that surprised me was the Glock doing more damage (d10) than a Desert Eagle (d8) which, based on the "large" bullet size, I would assume is the .50 caliber model. But since Nate is modeled (now "mostly") on Burt Gummer, I figure his idea of "prepared" would be having the biggest gun possible in his holster.

But then I know absolutely zip about firearms, so it may just be my ignorance at work.


Nate,

I was wondering what you were talking about, but then I took a look at your sheet and realized what you meant. Your stats read as such:

Barrett d8 (2d10, 50/100/200)

The d8 in Bold is your shooting ability. The 2d10 is your damage.

Sylvia has a d10 shooting skill, but her glock deals 2d6 damage. You have a d8 shooting skill, but your damage is 2d10.

And according to Cracked.com people survive gunshots with shocking ease. With enough adrenaline and a small enough caliber bullet, they don't even know they've been shot.

My dad worked in the VA and he told me once about a guy he used to treat that everybody called Rambo. Finally he got curious and asked him why.

"Oh, in Vietnam I took 6 bullets in my torso and legs. Luckily most of them went right through me."

My dad blinked.

"Worst part was I couldn't do anything about it. F#*%ing friendly fire."


Bennies: 3/3 | Wounds: 0

Har. Well, I'm an idiot. John already knew that, but it may still be sinking in for you. :op

Thanks for (gently) adjusting my reality. I was away for a while, but I'm back now.

As for the surviving being shot thing, as I mentioned I know zip about firearms (or being shot, thankfully). My comments were focused on the bullet proof vest example John first presented, and I was going by various things I've read, like:

Quote:
Cops describe being shot in their vest like being hit with a baseball bat. It breaks bones, heavy bruising, everything.
Quote:
Ballistic vests are designed to prevent a bullet from penetrating through the vest and into the body. What you have to bear in mind is that the kinetic shock is only dispersed over a very small area right around the impact point. The heavier the bullet, the greater the impact trauma. Basically, it feels like someone is hitting you a good shot with a baseball bat.
Quote:
It has been determined that if the chest were compressed 42 centimeters over the heart, it would be fatal. Vests at level IIIA and higher (kevlar only, no trauma plate) will stop (5) 230 grain .45 bullets and only yield a 38 centimeter compression. Now this may sound like a lifesaver, and to a greater degree it is, but picture the recovery time from having a depression punched into your rib cage 38 centimeters deep. Yes, the upside is that you just lived through a major gun fight, so the vest worked. The downside is more than likely a medical retirement.

(I suspect the fellow above is metric-dyslexic and meant "millimeters," as 42 centimeters is >16.5 inches. Yeah, pretty sure that'd be fatal...)

Wikipedia wrote:
While a vest can prevent bullet penetration, the vest and wearer still absorb the bullet's energy. Even without penetration, modern pistol bullets contain enough energy to cause blunt force trauma under the impact point.

Remarkable story from your dad, by the way!


Male Human

I left out that the shooter had a d8 in Shooting. And I've had some more time to run more simulations...

So 80% chance of being hit at Short range, 50% chance at Medium range, and 25% chance at Long range.

If the shooter has a d6 in Shooting, that changes to 75%, 30%, and 25%. So really, only a big difference at Medium range.

The damage taken listed above only depends on the weapon's damage, so that would be true for any "2d6" weapon, including arrows.

Interestingly, 2d6+1 weapons (many other guns, for example) don't do that much more damage : his chances per attack of getting 1 or 2 wounds increases only 2%, getting 3 wounds by only 1%, and getting Incapacitated by only 1/2%! Mostly his chances of being incapacitated increase a little bit, from 60% for 2d6 damage to 68% for 2d6+1.
=====================================================================
Turns out the chances of dying (either immediately upon Incapacitation or eventually from Bleeding Out) are independent of everything but your Vigor :
d4 : 71%
d6 : 66% (5% better than d4)
d8 : 57% (9% better than d6)
d10 : 45% (12% better than d8)
d12 : 35% (10% better than d12)
And bleed-outs don't drag on, typically lasting only 1 or 2 rounds.

So what does that say? That having a d8 Vigor is WAY better than a d6 : spending one point from d6 to d8 gives you DOUBLE the increase in survivability for spending one point going from d4 to d6. And that having a d10 Vigor is as much better than a d8, than a d8 is better than a d4!

BTW, combine these results with the 2% chance of a point-blank Glock sending John into Incapacitation, and you have about a 1.5% chance of any single shot killing John!
=====================================================================
The chances of auto-recovering from Shaken on your round, and also being able to act on that round, depend on your Spirit and how many wounds you have :

NO WOUNDS
d4 : 63% recover, 19% and act
d6 : 75% recover, 25% and act
d8 : 81% recover, 25% and act
d10 : 85% recover, 39% and act
d12 : 88% recover, 50% and act

ONE WOUND
d4 : 50% recover, 17% and act
d6 : 55% recover, 21% and act
d8 : 67% recover, 22% and act
d10 : 73% recover, 29% and act
d12 : 78% recover, 41% and act

TWO WOUNDS
d4 : 32% recover, 13% and act
d6 : 30% recover, 16% and act
d8 : 48% recover, 18% and act
d10 : 58% recover, 18% and act
d12 : 65% recover, 31% and act

THREE WOUNDS
d4 : 27% recover, 9% and act
d6 : 30% recover, 11% and act
d8 : 38% recover, 14% and act
d10 : 50% recover, 15% and act
d12 : 58% recover, 21% and act

Yeah, that's a lot of numbers. What does it mean? The general pattern is that going from a d4 to a d8 gives you a HUGE increase in survivability, but then going from a d8 to a d10 gives you hardly any further increase at all. Except when you're badly wounded, then having the d10 really helps.

And regardless of your Spirit, each wound reduces your chances of recovering from Shaken by 10-20%.

FWIW...
=====================================================================
P.S. - if anyone actually spends enough time staring at all this :) you'll see 3 places where the downward trend "stalls" - I've verified these aren't bugs or typos, and I've seen a web page that mentions "glitches" in SW due to the exploding dice and such (but I haven't had any time yet to look into it in depth).


Male Human

On a related note, I wanted to find out how much more damage using the "double-tap" option of the Glock (or any semi-automatic) would do :

Only 12% better chance of being hit. And IF hit :
Only 11% more likely to be just Shaken.
Only 3% more chance of taking 1, 2 or 3 wounds (per shot).
Only 1% increase in entering Incapacitated.

Keep in mind this is only for 1 single case (something with exactly John's attributes being shot at close range by a 2d6 semi-auto), but it hardly seems worth it for using up 2 rounds...


Male Human

Ok, here's the odd glitch in SW :

If the target number is 6 (or alternatively, you're rolling at -2), a d4 has exactly the same chances of success as a d6! Note that for any other TN, a d6 has a better chance of success than a d4.

If the target number is 8 (or alternatively, you're rolling at -4), a d6 has exactly the same chances of success as a d8! Note that for any other TN, a d8 has a better chance of success than a d6.

Same pattern when the TN is 10 and 12. Technically the smaller die in each case has a 2% BETTER chance than the larger die, but essentially they're equal.

Not at all sure how much this would actually affect game play, and I doubt that this knowledge would allow any min-maxing (because the penalties vary constantly by situation), but there it is.

If you're really interested, a graph of %success vs. TN for each die can be found here (but I have reproduced this graph exactly to confirm it).


Male Human

Regarding the "double-tap", I've realized what I need to do is look at the COMBINED chances of "being hit" with "being Shaken", etc.

So for a single shot :
Shaken only : 48%
1 wound : 14%
2 wounds : 6%
3 wounds : 3%
Incapacitated : 1.8%

For a double-tap :
Shaken only : 66% (18% better than single)
1 wound : 18% (4% better)
2 wounds : 9% (5% better)
3 wounds : 4% (1% better)
Incapacitated : 3.0% (1.2% better, OR almost double depending on how you look at it)

Ok, well, no, I'm still not seeing it, just an 18% better chance of making the target Shaken for using twice as much ammo...


Male Human

Sorry, I was mis-counting what I considered a "hit" before. I consider a "hit" to mean the attack succeeded, AND the damage roll succeeded (so the target becomes Shaken and maybe takes Wounds), so...

If John was shot by a Glock while wearing his Kevlar armor, here's the results :
d8 Shooter : 47% chance of being hit at Short range, 29% at Medium, and 15% at Long.
d6 Shooter : 45%, 20%, and 14%. Still basically the same except for Medium.

But that says that HALF of all short-range attacks with a 2d6 weapon will result in his becoming Shaken!

This doesn't change ANY of the other numbers in my previous posts, because I was giving statistics on all the "hits", not all the "attempts".

"We apologize for any inconvenience..."


Male Human Rogue 2
Stats:
HP 11/11 | AC 15 | HD 2/2d6 | Init +2| Spd 30ft.| STR 9 DEX 14 CON 10 INT 12 WIS 8 CHA 5; Prof +1 |Rapier +3/1d8+2| Shortbow +3/1d6+2 {37 arrows}

Don't worry. I'm actually finding this fascinating.

-Posted with Wayfinder


Bennies: 3/3 | Wounds: 0
Gavril Vasilescu wrote:
I'm also realizing how ridiculous this group probably looks. The image of a large Romanian man, a former boxer, with an eyepatch, in a flak jacket, on an elevator, holding baby shower balloons... That's amusing. Good job, WR.

I absolutely agree. Ray's talented that way. :o)

I'm hopeful Nate isn't coming off as a jerk (or too much like Doc, for those of us who know that grump). I'm trying to establish his literal-minded obsession with regimentation and precision, everything well-defined and clearly communicated. (Of course real life rarely works that way, and the supernatural events we'll likely be facing even less so.)

My concern is that he might come across as a whiny grouch rather than "militia-minded." Right now this unexpected and (to him) illogical situation has him off-balance. He doesn't like feeling vulnerable or not in control, and he's grasping at what he can (lecturing about the importance of clear communication, correcting "mistakes" and so on) to re-establish "normality." As the situation becomes clearer and he can process it, I promise his frustration will lessen.

And I'd like to think y'all will decide he's actually an okay guy.

You know, considering. :o)

But if he gets too annoying in the meantime please let me know and I'll tone him down. After all, this is supposed to be fun...


Male Human

Heh - John's just a jerk. :)


Male Human

Ok, here's a range of scenarios :
Remember, these are the chances of EACH attack having the indicated results!
But also remember that if you're already Shaken, and another attack results in just Shaken, you take a wound.
So even tho the #wounds are low probability, any time the Shaken chances are high, you WILL be taking wounds with consecutive hits!

Attacker is doing 2d6 ranged damage (most guns)

Defender has Toughness 5 + 4(Kevlar vs. bullets) - 1(weapon's AP) = 8

d6 attack skill
Short range : 45% Shaken; #wounds = 13%, 6%, 3%; Incapacitated = 2.6%
Medium range : 20% Shaken; #wounds = 6%, 3%, 1%; Incapacitated = 1.3%
Long range : 14% Shaken; #wounds = 4%, 2%, 1%; Incapacitated = 0.5%

***Comparing just these 3, Short vs. Medium range makes a big difference! But not so much Medium vs. Long.

d8 attack skill
Short range : 47% Shaken; #wounds = 13%, 6%, 3%; Incapacitated = 1.8%
Medium range : 29% Shaken; #wounds = 8%, 4%, 2%; Incapacitated = 1.2%
Long range : 15% Shaken; #wounds = 4%, 2%, 1%; Incapacitated = 0.6%

***Now Medium vs. Long makes a bigger difference.
***Comparing these two blocks, having a d8 attack is a little better when you’re within Medium range, but otherwise they're pretty much identical!

Defender has Toughness 5 (unarmored)

d6 attack skill
Short range : 66% Shaken; #wounds = 19%, 11%, 5%; Incapacitated = 3.6%
Medium range : 28% Shaken; #wounds = 8%, 5%, 2%; Incapacitated = 1.8%
Long range : 22% Shaken; #wounds = 6%, 3%, 1%; Incapacitated = 0.9%

d8 attack skill
Short range : 71% Shaken; #wounds = 20%, 11%, 5%; Incapacitated = 3.6%
Medium range : 42% Shaken; #wounds = 12%, 7%, 3%; Incapacitated = 2.3%
Long range : 22% Shaken; #wounds = 6%, 4%, 2%; Incapacitated = 1.3%

***Comparing these two blocks, having a d8 attack is a lot better when you’re within Medium range!
***But again, otherwise they're pretty much the same!
***So as the Toughness of your target increases, the difference between a d6 and d8 attack gets less and less.
***And lowering your Toughness from 8 to 5 increases your chances of being Shaken by 50%!

Note that the Short range results are the same as having a Parry of 4 and being attacked by a hand-held weapon.
Medium range is the same as having a Parry of 6.

***So with a Toughness of 5 and a Parry of 4, you're going to end up Shaken on 2/3 to 3/4 of EVERY attack! With a Parry of 6, you're going to end up Shaken on 1/4 to 1/2 of EVERY attack!

***So THAT means even if the attacker never gets ANY raises on their damage rolls :
With a Toughness of 5 and a Parry of 4, you're going to be Incapacitated in 5 to 6 rounds (on average, depending on their attack skill). With a Parry of 6, that extends to 8 to 16 rounds (ditto)!
====================================================================

At this point, I'm out of ideas for these kinds of statistics. All the results depend on the attacker's attack die and damage dice, AND the defender's Parry and total Toughness. Even assuming a narrow range of possible values for each, that's almost 50 different reasonable combos (and this post covers only 12 of them!). It'd be very hard to present all that info in any easy-to-grasp way (if only we could view 5-dimensional graphs...).

But if anyone would like to run a particular scenario by me ("my PC is attacked by a guy with a knife"), just give me the particulars and I'd be glad to tell you the results.

Now I'm going to move on to battle-to-the-death (ok, Incapacitation) simulations....


Male Human

So, I just found out about Rapid Attack, so I had to simulate it...

In my standard scenario (d8 attacker doing 2d6 damage, vs. a defender with a TN of 4 [close range shot] and a Toughness of 8[Kevlar]) :

It turns out that the -4 penalty is so bad that it takes the entire allowed 6 shots just to get the chances of being Shaken and taking wounds back up to the same values as for a SINGLE shot!

So Rapid Attack seems to be totally useless - yes, you can pick different targets, but you will have such a small chance of doing anything to them that you might as well stick with a single target.

Example - the standard scenario results in :
Shaken 47%; Wounds : 14%, 6%, 3%; Incapacitated 1.7%

And for using Rapid Attack on 2 enemies, 3 shots per :
Shaken 28%; Wounds : 8%, 4%, 2%; Incapacitated 1.7%

Basically a little better than half the chances of doing anything.

Will look into other melee options and Edges soon...


Male Human

Many Edges in Savage Worlds gives you a straight +1 or +2 to some specific roll, like Alertness gives you a +2 to Notice. As long as it's some skill or Ability roll (not used in melee, like Fighting or Parry or damage or Toughness), that is simple to calculate for a Target Number of 4, for any exploding roll with a Wild Die (extra d6) :

d4=62%, +1=83%, +2=96%
d6=75%, +1=89%, +2=97%
d8=81%, +1=92%, +2=98%
d10=85%, +1=93%, +2=98%
d12=88%, +1=95%, +2=99%

So a +1 makes a d4 better than a d8, and a d6 as good as a d12!

And a +2 virtually guarantees success with any die! If you take a +2 Edge, only use one point to get a d4 for the actual skill.


Male Human

BTW, in light of the "any subsequent Shaken gives you a wound" rule, I guess I can see more benefit in a double-tap - if already Shaken, it increases the chances of inflicting a wound in my standard scenario from basically 1/2 to 2/3 (a 16% increase) - not too bad, I suppose.

Especially when Extras are removed from play on the first wound!

And for Toughness=5, it increases the chances of Shaken from 71% to 87% - also a 16% increase, and an almost guaranteed success.


Male Human

Combat Reflexes is an *awesome* Edge! Without reproducing that entire long block of percentages for recovering from Shaken above, let me just hit some high points :

For ANY Spirit die, the chance of recovering from Shaken with no wounds goes up to 95% or higher!

The chances of being able to act on the same round *roughly* DOUBLES across the board, for any Spirit die and any number of wounds!

How much better is a d8 Spirit than a d6 Spirit with Combat Reflexes? A d8 gives you a significantly better chance of acting in the same round when you have no wounds, and significantly better chance of recovering from Shaken when you have 3 wounds, but that's about it - otherwise, a d6 is about the same as a d8. Don't get me wrong, a d8 is better in all conditions than a d6, just not by a lot.


Male Human

Hard to Kill is another *awesome* Edge! The normal chances of dying once entering Incapacitated are

Vigor=d4 : 71%
Vigor=d6 : 66%
Vigor=d8 : 57%
Vigor=d10 : 45%
Vigor=d12 : 35%

But with HTK this becomes

Vigor=d4 : 34%
Vigor=d6 : 22%
Vigor=d8 : 16%
Vigor=d10 : 12%
Vigor=d12 : 9%


Male Human

Two-handed weapons (Multiple Actions) : -2 to attack rolls [and I'm assuming NOT to damage - the rules say "-2 from ALL the hero's rolls"]

IF the attacker has the Ambidextrous edge, then this option turns out (in the standard scenario) to be completely even, IF you target the same person with both your attacks. Same chances of being Shaken, taking wounds, etc.

But if you target two separate people, then the chances of hitting each one goes from the "Close range" lines in the long post above (the standard scenario condition) to the "Medium range" lines for each target, which is *roughly* half the chances of being Shaken and taking wounds, depending on the specific conditions.

But the attacker is ALSO at -2 for the off-hand, then even for targeting the same creature, your overall chances of doing damage drop by like 25%. And if you target two different creatures, well...why bother?

Still trying to sort out all the other multi-action Edges and melee options, more on them later...

P.S. to the Rapid Attack post : even taking 3 Fighting attacks against the same opponent is pointless, you'll have less effect than if you just take a single attack with no penalties!


I'm going to be busy pretty much all day today. So if I don't post tonight, I'll be sure to post tomorrow night.


Post incoming tomorrow. Busy week for me at work.


Male Human

Ray, for future reference (that is, shopping) : I would assume contact tasers exist, and can be easily bought? There's nothing in the SW Deluxe book, but I was wondering how much one would cost, and what would be its effect? Thanks!


Male Human

Ray - I've been studying the SW combat system, but having never used it before, I'd like to get more familiar with its details.

If we're not going to be getting into battle any time soon, I was wondering what you would think of my "running" a battle between us PC's and a gang of thugs, here in the Discussion tab? It would give me and Nate a chance to get used to the basic mechanics and explore options.

Players - what do y'all think? I wouldn't be providing any context or color, just "us against them to the death". Obviously the results wouldn't permanently affect the PC's. If no one's interested or has the time, it's no big deal.


Bennies: 3/3 | Wounds: 0

Would it be better to set up a separate "game thread" for that?

That would also give you some experience in configuring/managing campaigns, in case you ever decided to run one here on the forum. ("John" may be new to SW but he's a long-time and talented GM -- very creative).


Male Human

Spending a lot of time with set-up and managing is exactly what I don't want to do, which is why I just wanted to do something informal in this game's Discussion...


Post coming in tomorrow, guys. Busy weekend what with the holiday, guests and D&D Basic being available for download. Also Paizo apparently had a conniption today. That's not really related to my dawdling, just thought I'd mention it because WTF, right?

And, John, sure. If anyone wants to participate in your scrimmage here in the discussion tab, go right ahead.


Male Human

Thanks, Ray!

So, anyone interested?


Novice (16 XP) | Parry 7, Toughness 9 (2) | 0 Wounds | 3 Bennies

Sure, I'll go for it. Gavril is the first heavily-unarmed-focused character I've played, so it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. (Probably just like any other melee character, since I took Martial Arts and Heavy Hitter to boost damage and such)


Bennies: 3/3 | Wounds: 0

Well I could definitely use the practice.


Male Human

Ok, I'll start getting something set up. Probably won't be able to get it posted until Friday, maybe Saturday.

If anyone else is interested, please let me know so I can scale accordingly.


Female Spooky

Eh, why not, I've not built towards combat much though.


Male Human

MOCK BATTLE POST

Ok, so I'm going to try this without a map, but if it gets too confusing then speak up and I'll ask Ray for help getting something set up.

There are 4 bad guys, A, B, C, and D. You just declare who you're shooting at, or who you're closing with, etc.

There's plenty of cover in the form of old wooden crates, some large metal trash bins, etc. Just declare what you want to do, and within reason you can do it.

Everything is within Close range for hand-held pistols.

I've tried to make this a more-or-less even fight, but in breaking with SW tradition, all of the bad guys are Wild Cards, like you (to make it truly even).

I'm going to handle initiative like this : every round, everyone gets a "d14" (ace thru King), highest number goes first. If someone gets a 1, they get a re-roll, and if THAT number is 1-3, it becomes a Joker. That's roughly the same probabilities as dealing from a deck, as far as I can tell.

You each have 3 Bennies to begin with. Bennies will be handed out during the battle for excellent roleplaying, daring successes, etc. Be creative!

If anyone catches me doing something not by-the-book, please tell me!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------------------------
Gavril, Nate, John and FatherO are investigating an old warehouse in a very bad part of town near dusk (no penalties), and are in a dead-end alley trying to break into a back door. You hear footsteps coming from around the street corner, and pull your weapons. You see 4 street thugs round the corner, semi-automatic weapons drawn, and one of them says, "Well, what have we here? A buncha nobodies tryin' to muscle in on our turf! Good thing nobody misses nobodies when they're gone...".

Initiative
Gavril : Init: 1d14 ⇒ 7
Nate : Init: 1d14 ⇒ 8
John : Init: 1d14 ⇒ 9
Father0 : Init: 1d14 ⇒ 7
Bad guys : Init: 1d14 ⇒ 13

Ah nuts, I was hoping I wouldn't have to deal with their actions until later today or tomorrow... :)

They're all cocky and armed, so just shooting (TN=4) :
A shoots at Gavril : Shooting: 1d10 ⇒ 1 & Wild: 1d6 ⇒ 6
...Wild explodes :Wild: 1d6 ⇒ 2 --> Roll=8 --> Success, 1 raise [add d6 damage]
B shoots at Nate : Shooting: 1d10 ⇒ 8 & Wild: 1d6 ⇒ 4 --> Roll=8 --> Success, 1 raise [add d6 damage]
C shoots at John : Shooting: 1d10 ⇒ 9 & Wild: 1d6 ⇒ 5 --> Roll=9 --> Success, 1 raise [add d6 damage]
D shoots at FatherO : Shooting: 1d10 ⇒ 7 & Wild: 1d6 ⇒ 2 --> Roll=7 --> Success

Ouch! Ok, nice knowing you guys...

A damage (vs. Tough=11) : Damage: 2d6 + 1 ⇒ (4, 2) + 1 = 7 + raise: 1d6 ⇒ 3 --> Total=10 --> No effect
B damage (vs. Tough=8) : Damage: 2d6 + 1 ⇒ (4, 5) + 1 = 10 + raise: 1d6 ⇒ 1 --> Total=11 --> Success
C damage (vs. Tough=9) : Damage: 2d6 + 1 ⇒ (2, 4) + 1 = 7 + raise: 1d6 ⇒ 4 --> Total=11 --> Success
D damage (vs. Tough=5) : Damage: 2d6 + 1 ⇒ (3, 1) + 1 = 5 --> Total=5 --> Success

At least no exploding dice on the damage...

BUT, *everyone* except Gavril is now Shaken! Free moves (including movement) only, and an automatic chance to recover with a successful Spirit roll, and maybe act this round (with any raises). Or spend a Bennie, and recover and act.

Everyone else can now act. Er, that is, try to.

Please, those of you who know SW check my procedures!
Players, please verify I used the right Toughness value for you vs. bullets!


Male Human

MOCK BATTLE POST

Oops, almost forgot...

A hail of bullets flies in your direction. Surprisingly, every one of them finds its mark. Altho your various armors protect you, several of you have the wind knocked out of you, and you struggle to catch your breath.


Male Human

Hey, I'm one of the PC's, too!

Spending a Bennie to recover and act (I assume that's a Free action???).

Diving for cover behind some crates (Free).
More than half of him covered --> -2 to bad guy's attack roll.

Firing back at C : Shooting & Wild: 1d6 ⇒ 11d6 ⇒ 1

OW! Snake eyes = critical failure! John didn't have as good a grip on the weapon as he thought, and the kickback throws it flying from his hand.

I'm going to house-rule that you can't undo critical failures with a Bennie.

Direction of kickback (<=3 means he can get it without breaking cover) : Kickback: 1d6 ⇒ 1

No, really, he's not that useless! :(


Novice (16 XP) | Parry 7, Toughness 9 (2) | 0 Wounds | 3 Bennies

MOCK BATTLE POST

Although normally not the type to engage in violence, Gavril recognizes that things have quickly gotten out of hand when the shooting starts, and he feels a slug pound against his chest, only the flak jacket keeping him safe. The large Romanian closes quickly to the closest thug--1d4 ⇒ 4--Thug D (free move action) and throws a powerful fist his way.

Fighting: 1d8 ⇒ 8 Explosion: 1d8 ⇒ 6
Wild: 1d6 ⇒ 5
A 14 to hit is most certainly a success with a raise, even if they have d12 Fighting dice.

Damage: 1d8 + 1d4 + 2 + 1d6 ⇒ (2) + (3) + 2 + (4) = 11
Probably a hit with a raise.

The man strikes with years of training--and plenty of power--behind the blow, and it smashes into the gunman's jaw, sending a few teeth flying into the air. "DO YOU NOT KNOW IS NOT NICE TO SHOOT AT PEOPLE?!"

With three dice, I was really hoping to explode on my damage, but ah well. Still an effective turn--I'm pretty sure that guy is Shaken with 1 Wound now.
EDIT: I think I should include here as well as for the normal game: Unless otherwise noted (or when fighting something clearly supernatural/undead), Gavril's attacks are nonlethal damage.


Male Human

MOCK BATTLE POST

Gavril, I'm confused by your reference to *their* Fighting die with respect to your attack. It's my understanding that any Fighting attack (even fists) is with respect to the target's Parry? I'm going to proceed on that assumption, and retcon things if anyone can tell me otherwise.

So D's Parry is 5, that's a success with 2 raises. Ok, #raises doesn't matter here, just trying to get in the habit.

D's Toughness is 6, so that's a success with 1 raise. Yep, Shaken and 1 wound.

Your powerful punch has indeed done bad things to his jaw.

NOTES TO SELF (*=Shaken, /N=#wounds) : Gavril, *Nate, John, *FatherO, A, B, C, *D/1

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