Valcia

Game Master Darksmokepuncher

To answer your questions Josh:

1. Sorcha Rudianos – 8. The only Rudianos daughter. She was maimed by her mother at 5. Her left hand has only the ring and pinky fingers. She always seeks Jathus for aid and protection or when she feels suicidal (fairly often).

2. KN: Nobility 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (11) + 10 = 21 Yes, the emperor has one sister. You think she is in her early 20s and the word is she is a bit homely, but she is popular with the common people.

3. It is very normal to offer arranged marriages for political gain. However, you know that the higher in command either opens the door for suggestions, or initiates such offers. Moreover, your sister is not likely to be a good fit...

TY TY

I ran this one over in my head for almost a full day. I am sorry, but this is what would happen to a minor lordling with a loose tongue.

all good, the king is brash and outlandish Jathus should have registered it sooner. Cut his tongue out.

How is the king brash and outlandish? He made several comments that Jathus' tone and words were quickly getting out of line.

It seemed fairly straightforward to me. Most king's, I'd wager, are unused to any amount of discourtesy from the youngest son of a minor House. My opinion of course, but were this Firefly, I'd be Jayne sayin' "Saw that coming."

Yeah, I trying to hint to stop before something like this happened. That's what she said.

That's like walking up to Hitler and saying "I'm opposing your ideas about killing Jews" while surrounded by Nazis. There are just certain times you don't go speaking your mind when you're around people of power.

Yeah...

*I was

5 Reasons as to why he is hot-headed

1)Brand new "king" taking ownership of something not his, against tradition and by the sword.
2) The first real conversation with a person he asks them to kill their family in a "semi" public setting.
3) Seeing "might this be you" suggesting that the brand new king might have something to do with assassination attempts- keep in mind pt (2)
4) Sees offering marriage as an insult.
5) Sees the idea as working with another person as disrespected. AND refuses to see possible Intel? Shoot, if he doesn't know about it WOULDN'T he want to know? And if he does know, wouldn't he warn his pawn or suggest another target?

In general, he is taking the situation really harshly. He is your character and we may proceed how you want! In general not stressed, but i think it would be far to assume that the removal of a lords limbs might flip that lord against the remover. ALL in all we (Jathus) didn't know the kings personality up front, (not that we should have) Jathus spoke to promptly and got his tongue cut off.

"Cut his tongue out." -Josh 1/21 11:10 AM

Feel free to continue this needs nor warrants further debate. Ryan could remove anyone's tongue with a character that he made simply by following the rules, just as he will be doing. But, in general I think you all are over reacting.

What we're reacting to is the fact that we saw a lot of very clear signs, and gave pretty strong, repeated warnings to back down, and Jathus didn't listen...

Over, and over, and over again.

Had any of us acted with such indiscretion with so powerful an entity I, for one, wouldn't be the least bit surprised with a fitting punishment. ESPECIALLY taking into account what we've witnessed of the king's character so far. AND the fact that this is a stressful, potentially dangerously volatile, time for the king turned emperor.

Face it man, there were a lot of signs.

Hell, it was practically; "yo dawg i herd u liek signs, so we put signs on ur signs, so u culd sign whilst signing!"

I’m not sure if this example will help the misunderstanding, but here it goes:

Jathus, imagine that the irresponsible cook who traveled with us (who was as low-born as they come) offered his sister in marriage to you or your brothers. You would be in the right to refuse him; to show disgust at the thought would be considered normal. His peasant family would stand to gain, while your family might be tarnished in reputation.
Then imagine that you ask him to undertake the preparation of a mighty feast, and he complains to you that there are not enough servants, so you recruit his family members to work, to his dismay. He complains even further when his personal livestock is part of the provision, but why should you have to put up with the lip service of someone beneath you? To not punish a servant this insolent would be unusual.

I’m not the GM, but this is my impression of how the Emperor might feel toward Jathus. Hopefully this helps. If not ...eh. *shrug*

Here is my counter IN EBONICS!

King: BRO JOIN MY CREW SON, I R leader broa

Jathus: Done!, Can i get wid your sister

King: F$~% no! Bro kill your fam! Then get ready for war!

Jathus: Sure I hate them anyway, but btw did you try to cap my fam?

King: WHAT! I'd NEVER

Jathus: Well just FYI PPL BE COMING AFTER ME and MY FAM WITH GATs! I think they B trying to kill us BOYE! If they gat me i can't back u up from the graves homes.

King: THERE IS NO US, we are not a team, you are a pathetic dog TONGUE NOW!

Jathus: K?

END SCENE

Point is if the king sees it as disrespectful then it is.

Look at how fast ppl post! I am not objecting, on the contrary I am suggesting that these are characters, and as long as Ryan does it by the rules there is nothing that anyone can say or do about it. I think/feel that Ryans character response seems more geared towards as an OOC response to Jathus yelling at the party in game, and I have previously stated why I thought it was odd. If it was an in game response to an in game action, no one should/could have beef with it.

We have a bad habit of taking in game actions and making them long and drawn out of game responses. IMO there should be no pause! If the king would cut his tongue out what does it matter what anyone has to say outside of the game. I build strong characters, and they often die. We should worry less about the removal of a characters tongue and more about having consistent quality posts.

"...cut his tongue out."(3)

To be fair, Josh IS playing his character as Jathus would be - Brash and not giving a shit about who claims to be "above" him. Jathus strikes me as a person who sees everyone as equal or lower, no one is above him in his eyes. The rest of us are worried about our lives, Jathus just assumes his silver tongue will get him out of trouble.

1)Brand new "king" taking ownership of something not his, against tradition and by the sword.

He is not a brand new king. He has been the King of Erenon and presides over the council that you were summoned to. He just took away the say of his people and named himself Emperor. This shows he is ambitious and unscrupulous. = First Warning.

2) The first real conversation with a person he asks them to kill their family in a "semi" public setting.

Real life Emperors often asked such things of their vassals, sometimes quite openly. When you are in power, nothing is off limits. Moreover, the laws of Erenon would disinherit Jathus if he killed off his family, but now he is being given a chance to accelerate his inheritance free of punishment. This is a gift.

3) Seeing "might this be you" suggesting that the brand new king might have something to do with assassination attempts- keep in mind pt (2)

It is not the place of vassals to question the Emperor. In anything. Ever. At least not without his express consent. But to go so far as to besmirch the honor of an ambitious, unscrupulous man who is now the sole law maker and therefore lawful in what he chooses to do? That is too bold. Even if he had tried to kill you guys off. It is his right as Emperor and everyone should know that. The emperor even showed you how mad he was getting.

"You would dare accuse me of..." The Emperor stops mid-sentence, a dangerous gleam in his eyes.

"I have nothing to do with the hardships your family has endured. What I am ordering you to do is claim your place as head of the Rudianos household. Is there any part of this you do not understand? Are you prepared to disobey a direct order?"

= Second Warning

4) Sees offering marriage as an insult.

I told you that was a bad idea.

It is very normal to offer arranged marriages for political gain. However, you know that the higher in command either opens the door for suggestions, or initiates such offers.

He neither opened the door to suggestions nor asked your availability. To offer yourself unbidden would be like a homeless guy with no high school education offering to be secretary of state unbidden.

5) Sees the idea as working with another person as disrespected. AND refuses to see possible Intel? Shoot, if he doesn't know about it WOULDN'T he want to know? And if he does know, wouldn't he warn his pawn or suggest another target?

Jathus assumed he was a peer with the Emperor. Whoops. Also, Jathus himself is a super hot head who does not tolerate being questioned or insulted.

"My lord, now that [b]WE have ruled out the obvious we can move on. You sire, just asked me to over through my house and it is not too far to question if you have already tried. What’s more important is that we understand there are those out there wishing to over throw the houses backing you. That those coming after me and my blood are really going after you and your power."

Bold italics were added for emphasis.

What is more is in the above passage Jathus assumes, at the very least, an advisory role that he was never offered; at worst, it could be seen as a willful act to dominate the conversation and thereby subjugate the Emperor.
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Now, I hear, "How could we ever have known half of this stuff?

1. Some of it was already given (i.e. The Emperor was already the king)
2. Knowledge checks are unasked. If you want information, make the knowledge check and tell me explicitly what you want to know. This is an intrigue game. I will not give out information willy-nilly.

Why am I going through the trouble to explain all this?

1. I want it known that I am being as fair as possible and that I really think through this stuff.

2. I want to demonstrate the level of thought I have prepared for so my players can feel free to be creative.

3. I want for the characters in the games I run always to have the freedom to do as they wish, even when what they wish could get them killed.
___________________________

As the GM, I do not have to follow the rules when I do not wish to. I am not bound by the game the way the players are. I must have that authority so the game can evolve as it may. I do not agree to, nor will I be held accountable to the rules as written unless a mistake in mechanics alone could result in a character's otherwise unnecessary death.
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David, I see your point about Jathus just being Jathus. However, I view it as irresponsible gaming to your fellow players and their characters to knowingly and consistently endanger the character's lives needlessly. Especially when the other players AND their characters are clamoring for you to stop.

This game is played best from a team sports mindset. The party is no different than a baseball, football, or hockey team. Each character has his or her job in certain situations, and each character has his or her own personal agenda for the game, but the teams that are successful put the needs of the team above all other concerns in order to win.

Responses to Points
1) I want it known that I am being as fair as possible and that I really think through this stuff.
1A) No need to be fair your RP'ing and your the DM. Cut his tongue out?

2) I want to demonstrate the level of thought I have prepared for so my players can feel free to be creative.
2A) Thanks? Will you cut his tongue out?

3)I want for the characters in the games I run always to have the freedom to do as they wish, even when what they wish could get them killed.
3A) Been there, done that! K so now cut his tongue out?

I can't stress to you all enough, I am completely cool with the tongue removal. I do not take in game actions personally out of game, I know ... hard concept to grasp. Let me refrain the statement... "Cut his tongue off."(4) I don't see why the this warrants such a big deal.

[Team Concept]
Completely disagree with this team ideology. The idea of an RPG is to role play. To say that the top priority of a Role Playing Game is to play as part of a team is clearly wrong. Our thinking must be to RP in an RPG, striving to create living characters. Alas, We are not a team, we are independent players functioning together and ROLE PLAYING. If we let our characters breath life, they will automatically form a team. If I wanted to play math-cheese-time I'd play one of the other many wargames. We have already been threw a similar DM vrs Player before with pvp. Which again, the DM can/will completely override the players rights to role play, if he/she deems necessary. (which is fine)

If we could only post how we do in discussion in the game thread, we would we'd have a fantastic game.

PS: Lets beat more dead horses...

I think DSP is spot on. Teamwork is a very important part of the game, in fact, I think the teamwork aspect is the reason games like these always trump the countless single-player video game RPGs (IMO). I always thought some level of cooperation was assumed whenever an adventuring party was formed; I don’t really understand why someone would want to have a “doesn’t play well with others” character. Being gruff or aloof is one thing, but actively working against party goals (like not dying) is another. That’s my two cents, I’m ready to move the game along too.

I just want to finally hit something so I can use Bane for god's sake.

Anga would feel more comfortable splitting up...

Thaegrin would prefer to stay in a group, (as a squishy mages do) hoping for at least one of the Thelkonese to accompany him to the library (am I right to assume Jathus will find books unbearably boring?). He also completely understands that some of Anga's dealings require some, ah, discretion, but we should be ok if the rest of us stick together.

As to where we go first, I don't think it should matter too much. If no one cares, let's go to the library and quiet pub first.

Heh, whenever I see OOC in Discussion, it feels like we're whispering.

I AM.

Whelp, Tholan is just hungry and wanting a drink, so he's mostly interesting in securing something along those lines. Beyond that, meh. Anything goes.

I have one split up and one stay together with several I don't cares...

In 12 hours I will pick one if I don't hear more decisive choices :)

Ack! Don't leave the wizard alone!

Tholan will follow Thaegrin, at least for the time being.

And so goes Ezkal as he's sticking with Tholan.

Jathus just got his tonuge cut off... hes going home.

Before I respond, it'd be good to have Thaegrin's question and offer answered - would it be possible to learn extra spells?

(Obviously this is at DSP discretion) I was thinking possibly as a 1/day ability, or something similar. Possibly 1/day and it uses up 1 cast of the same level?

"I see you're eyes haven't grown dim."

"I see you're eyes."

"See you're eyes."

"YOU'RE EYES."

WHY DO I KEEP DOING THIS?! RRRRAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHH!!!

I AM EYES

Sense Motive?

Sorry. If I do not answer your sense motive rolls, you can assume that your character accepts the words as true. It doesn't necessarily mean they are, but that's what you get."

Tempted to just cast Fog Cloud and run... It's that or prayer to help us talk our way out of it. Thoughts?

Though I suppose I do have 16 intimidate, I could probably do something with that. What do we think?

Fog Cloud might work depending how close the buildings are or if there are any alleyways to run down. Intimidate can only target one person at a time (unless DSP says otherwise), and there isn't really a clear leader of the group. It might work, but a low roll might just antagonize them.

I say Fog Cloud is our best bet; I forgot to prepare Auto-Pass Encounter this morning.

Tholan has dazzling display. Intimidate all foes within 30ft as a standard action. Must have falchion to hand.

Tholan always has a falchion to hand. He poops falchions.

What would you roll to hide a hidden message in a normal one?

Bluff, I think.

Spoken or written?

Written.

Linguistics.

You guys got this? Anga really wants to follow that group that just slipped out.

Pondering dropping some spells before we leave. Do we think this would be likely to cause problems? Was thinking Shield of Faith, Prayer, and Divine Favor, then Compel Hostility immediately before leaving.

Any thoughts on the spells Ezkal or Thaegrin?

Josh are you still following the game?