The Kings' Patron

Game Master Mardavig

A fairly straightforward Kingmaker campaign, with emphasis on the relationship with the patron.


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I find myself unable to join. Please offer my slot to another.
Good Gaming.


your invoker is here gm, sorry if I am late. I will get her appearance up later on, does she meet your qualifications?


Sorry to ask but what in Asmodeus 5 pronged star is an invoker.


It's the warlock of 3.5 updated for pathfinder, due to copyright issues they had to rename it. Any other info you want?

Liberty's Edge

Can i join in as a fighter? If its ok i will submit my character.


Whats the warlock? Sorry i have been playing for 22 years but some of the esoteric classes I have never met.


In old 3.5 the warlock was basically an attempt to bring the sorcerer class to it's logical, extreme conclusion. An arcane power house without limit literally, the core of the class was the "blast ability" which was basically a limitless ranged touch attack that could be modified as you leveled up. If you wanted to your "blast" could eventually become a sort of at will fireball, except the damage was untyped. In addition you got a limited number of invocations over your career, basically spells at will. Catch being that without feats the 3.5 warlock would only have about 11-13 of them by level twenty. Basically the warlock is the true magical opposite of the wizard, limitless arcane power but possessing almost no (magical) versatility.


A couple of points:

1) I ain't the judge, so my words have no inherent power. Either they speak to you and you choose to consider them, or not.

2) We have 18 people posting in the discussion and intro threads already. I don't know how big our judge wants to go, how many sub-groups the judge wants to support.

3) Invoker? The class from Red Goblin Games currently on sale for $3.50 through D20PFSRD? The one NOT in the D20 PFSRD listing for the judge to be able to look it over and form an opinion? My knee jerk wold be to flat refuse a 3rd party class I can't evaluate without spending money. But that's just me.

3A) There IS a Warlock class in the d20PFSRD. I don't know how limited the magical ability is (far too quick a scan to get feel for that, given the options on how to define said power), but it gets improved hit die, improved BAB, apparently more class features, and eventually gains the ability to wear heavy armor while invoking his arcane might, as compared to the wizard. I do not know how well that meets your desires or the GMs approval, either one. I do know the judge can at least read that one.

4) I think Ikhersien was considering point 2 when he posted the way that he did. With nothing but a core class name (which is sometimes used as a generic for an entire category of character type) provided to indicate what you have in mind, I don't know how the judge can provide an answer based on anything other than the size limit he wishes to set for the group. Which, again, I have no idea what that limit might be.

5) I think this is a marvelous experiment in working with a large, fluid group inside a really big sandbox. I'm hoping to really enjoy this.


I hate to agree wholeheartly with Josef Orlovsky. I think we have so many classes to choose from especially with the playtest advanced classes, I do not think there is a need for that. Something non paizo could really break the game balance. Same that I am not 100% happy with the scout class. My personal opinion is that it is incredibly unbalanced. To strong in the beginning and way to crappy in the end.
Apart from that, I would prefer something said by someone who has forgotten more about class-balancing than I will ever learn. Bring the player, not the class!


Yeah the DM said he wanted 15 players and recently we jumped to 18 so we may truly be full and closed. But I don't have the right to say that so may want to wait on that. What I will say is that this is not the first time I have seen a single DM take on a number of groups for kingmaker, granted not on the same map. Three groups is a lot of work and more then that may just be asking to much of one person so for the sake of the DM's sanity I would not push for more then three groups.


I didn't know there was a Warlock non-third party, when I read up on a few classes, I honestly thought some people did have 3rd party.
As far as 3rd party goes, it would have to be balanced right? Or they wouldn't be allowed to publish it for pathfinder.


<guffaw>

Uh, no.

Anybody who can spend the money to get something published that meets the OGL can publish whatever they want that is not under somebody else's copyright.

Why do you think Pathfined uses different XP tables than D&D 3.x? Because Paizo built Pathfinder on the OGL, not directly on WotC's proprietary material, and the WotC XP tables were excluded from the publicly available information in the OGL.

There is lots and lots of horrible stuff published under the OGL.

Oh, and being on D20PFSRD does not make it core. There's LOTS of 3rd party stuff on that site. There is also a significant amount of Paizo stuff published under the OGL that is not posted on Paizo's public web site. But there is an extensive 3rd party collection on the site as well.


And for the truly random comment . . ..

Normally I would be at work right now, and unable to post. I've taken most of the day off so that I can run my wife from one medical appointment to another, knowing that she's not supposed to drive after the procedure she'll get at the first appointment . . ..

Once I start running her around, I may as well be at work as far as my posting availability will go. We might have a brief stop at home between appointments to let the dog out, but we might take the dog instead. Both appointments are on the other side of town . . ..

Lantern Lodge

I have okayed vilukis character, but I'm going to ask him to wait until we have an open slot before he joins us.


as far as what matsu said, doesn't the class bring the character in a way? For example, because I can gain extra movement from either, the character will have fun jumping longer distances and other things. +4 to jump checks for every 10 movement speed beyond 30.


3 people marked this as a favorite.

What I meant was... a roleplaying game lives by the performance of the player not the class. It is the fantasy of the human mind that transforms it to thing of beauty


Is this coming from someone who has played every core or base class, or would be able to play any core or base class without problems?
I have friends that see potential in every race/class but I don't see how.


Matsu Miyuki wrote:

What I meant was... a roleplaying game lives by the performance of the player not the class. It is the fantasy of the human mind that transforms it to thing of beauty

Hear hear!


I for one have played nearly every class over the last 12 or so years and yes, I think they are all perfectly viable :)


Matsu Miyuki wrote:

What I meant was... a roleplaying game lives by the performance of the player not the class. It is the fantasy of the human mind that transforms it to thing of beauty

For some reason Paizo site is not allowing me to add this as my favorite, but girl/man (I don't really care if you're a boy or a girl) - this is one of the coolest comments I've read in a long time! Kudos!


Kazz D'Avore wrote:
I for one have played nearly every class over the last 12 or so years and yes, I think they are all perfectly viable :)

Have you made use of everything the class grants you, or were there some things the class had that you had not use for or thought were useless? That is the question I want to ask, how do you make use of everything the class grants you?


I suppose it depends on the character but...what part of a ranger do you find superfluous to your character concept?


too many combat style feats, not all I can use, don't need them.
wild empathy, seriously there is a handling animal skill I can be creative with.
too many spells, I only find a few useful. Not to mention, I'm a ranger, not a spellcaster.
Heal skill: I'm not a healer.
spellcraft skill: I'm not a magic user.

Things about a hunter/scout
1. bows are silent weapons, hence it matches the theme.

And...
Sometimes I think core/base classes don't fit the theme. Ranger, I honestly think Hunter or scout would better fit the theme.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah. Because there is so many submission already.. So unless i was selected.. I rather not waste everyone's time in reading my story. Anyway the gm just told me that the party was full.So let this post be the cut off point xD


I think Ranger doesn´t mean you work from range but that you are out of range of Civilization.
Rangers served in the 17th and 18th-century wars between colonists and Native American tribes. The British regulars were not accustomed to frontier warfare and so Ranger companies were developed. Rangers were full-time soldiers employed by colonial governments to patrol between fixed frontier fortifications in reconnaissance providing early warning of raids. In offensive operations, they were scouts and guides, locating villages and other targets for taskforces drawn from the militia or other colonial troops.
You should not compare it to a sniper. That is a mistake. And as someone who had quite a few comrades in special forces. EVERYONE of them was quite well trained in first aid = Heal skill.
If you do not like the spellcasting you could go the skirmisher or the trapper road.


@the DM, thanks I'm now a hunter.


Most of your complaints can be easily solved with archetypes.

As to the skills, just because you have something as a class skill doesn't mean you need to take it. It's simply an option to allow people to fulfill a wider range of character concepts, that's all.

Miyuki is also entirely correct, the term Ranger has very little to do with an affinity for ranged weapons.

That said, if Mardavig is cool with Hinter it sounds like it fits your desires.

Lantern Lodge

I think of a class as a toolbox. If the class offers you tools you are not interested in, that what archetypes are for. See the very first post in this thread for my feels on this topic.


Miyuki makes good points about the history of the ranger. To add to the discussion, Pathfinder is a fantasy roleplaying game and the classes serve to model various different, yet similar, character types. It's not purely pseudo-medieval European fantasy, either. The ranger is a good pick for a frontier soldier, but it's arguably even better at modeling bush hunters from West African folklore. In those traditions, the wild bush is not merely a place where chaos reigns and where civilization does not exist, it is seen a spiritual world set apart from the village. Hunters, who spend much of their time in the bush, hunting animals and living off the land, were intermediaries between the corporeal and the spiritual and were considered to be part-spirit. This particular narrative paradigm fits extremely well with the mechanical aspects of the Pathfinder ranger, especially the divine spellcasting.

It's fine if the class doesn't match the concept you're going for. That doesn't mean the class doesn't fit the theme it's trying to convey, but it does mean that it isn't the class you should pick to represent your character. I'm glad the GM let you change your class, and I hope that it works out for you.


Matsu Miyuki wrote:

I think Ranger doesn´t mean you work from range but that you are out of range of Civilization.

Rangers served in the 17th and 18th-century wars between colonists and Native American tribes. The British regulars were not accustomed to frontier warfare and so Ranger companies were developed. Rangers were full-time soldiers employed by colonial governments to patrol between fixed frontier fortifications in reconnaissance providing early warning of raids. In offensive operations, they were scouts and guides, locating villages and other targets for taskforces drawn from the militia or other colonial troops.
You should not compare it to a sniper. That is a mistake. And as someone who had quite a few comrades in special forces. EVERYONE of them was quite well trained in first aid = Heal skill.
If you do not like the spellcasting you could go the skirmisher or the trapper road.

Just to say that was an informative, educational and above all else helpful post. Like character like player it seems, I'm glad to be on your team :)


Matsu Miyuki wrote:

I think Ranger doesn´t mean you work from range but that you are out of range of Civilization.

Rangers served in the 17th and 18th-century wars between colonists and Native American tribes. The British regulars were not accustomed to frontier warfare and so Ranger companies were developed. Rangers were full-time soldiers employed by colonial governments to patrol between fixed frontier fortifications in reconnaissance providing early warning of raids. In offensive operations, they were scouts and guides, locating villages and other targets for taskforces drawn from the militia or other colonial troops.
You should not compare it to a sniper. That is a mistake. And as someone who had quite a few comrades in special forces. EVERYONE of them was quite well trained in first aid = Heal skill.
If you do not like the spellcasting you could go the skirmisher or the trapper road.

Question: How do you know this? History class? This is interesting, but I'm very interested where you got your info.


I admit, I was lazy and just checked wickipedia for a quick definition. But being a history and especially military history nerd, I have read a lot about that diffrent units and unit names like fusiliers, cavalary, rangers and their origin.

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