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RPG Superstar 2015

The Fourth Crusade

Game Master Desriden

The Fourth Crusade is a high-level adventure tied to the Worldwound and Mendev in the Golarion setting.


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I'll look over whatever spell combos the players present, but the rules within each spell will be my guide. I doubt everyone shaftshifting into a dragon is the intent of the game designers, especially since you cannot use your crafted weapons that way.

Besides, many abilities can be gained via cheaper spells anyway.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I promise I'm not trying to break the game. I just have a lot of magic and am thinking about how to use it. ;-)

Star Voter 2013

Human

By when do you need finished characters?


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I need a little advice. I have a +8 presently to overcome spell resistance. +2 Elf, +4 Spell penetration and greater spell penetration, +2 Robes of the arch magi.

I'm not sure how offensive i"m going to be, but do you think that's excessive?


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

Pureblooded Azlanti are Humans from Inner Sea World Guide. Mechanically, they get +2 to all stats as opposed to the +2 to one stat.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Monkeygod wrote:

Pureblooded Azlanti are Humans from Inner Sea World Guide. Mechanically, they get +2 to all stats as opposed to the +2 to one stat.

ORLY!?!?! *wrings hands deviously**

Star Voter 2013

Human

As suddenly the thread pauses for GM approval and the possiblilty of a party of pure-bloods.........Least we would have a reaon to all be hanging out.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Elite strike force. Either guns for hire or attached to something plot related.


Talonhawke wrote:
By when do you need finished characters?

From page 1:

I realize that Valentine's Day is coming up, and many of you will have things planned for that day or the weekend. That's perfectly fine with me. I would like to get the game underway sometime the week of Feb. 20.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I took true name. I can essentially summon an 18 HD outsider at will. I would like some DM input on what this should be.

Combat creature?
Utility?
Mount?
Other?

ALso I have the majority of my character on paper. just working out some of the details.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Oh, and gang, if we're a group feel free to look over the list of permanency effects that I can put on others and pay the appropriate amount for the material component. I would do that for you if you want.


Monkeygod wrote:

Pureblooded Azlanti are Humans from Inner Sea World Guide. Mechanically, they get +2 to all stats as opposed to the +2 to one stat.

So, Paizo made an uber race that's been extinct for thousands of years, remains a zero HD option and is better numerically than every other option? Somehow I doubt they allow it in PFS.

I'm going to have to say no, if for no other reason than everyone will switch their ideas on race to this because there is no reason not to.

Does the book explain how they fit in, since they are also supposed to be dead?


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

I tell you, Tiny, I don't envy you. Coming up with a list of spells for one class at this level is brutal within itself. Yet, YOU, have TWO high level spellcasters worth of spells you have to come up with. Sheesh! It makes me tired just thinking about it.

This "paper" you have your character on, does it require using a three-ring binder? And a handcart? :)

I really think your character's mind is going to explode, dude. Your gonna be a regular walking staff of the magi. If somebody breaks you in half ... look out. ;)

Marathon Voter 2013

m Orc 8 Fighter / 2 Champion

My LN Monk could go Mercenary pretty easy. He is also arrogant enough to want to take back some of the land from the demons of the Worldwound. We could all be crusaders who worked our way up through the ranks I suppose.

Well, I wouldn't be an Azlanti. Bunch of pompous jerks they are. (takes one to know one)


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Javell DeLeon wrote:

I tell you, Tiny, I don't envy you. Coming up with a list of spells for one class at this level is brutal within itself. Yet, YOU, have TWO high level spellcasters worth of spells you have to come up with. Sheesh! It makes me tired just thinking about it.

This "paper" you have your character on, does it require using a three-ring binder? And a handcart? :)

I really think your character's mind is going to explode, dude. Your gonna be a regular walking staff of the magi. If somebody breaks you in half ... look out. ;)

It's daunting, but I'm not a novice, so hopefully I can come up with something fun. I'm actually starting on that now with the permanency effects. lol.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

I took true name. I can essentially summon an 18 HD outsider at will. I would like some DM input on what this should be.

Combat creature?
Utility?
Mount?
Other?

ALso I have the majority of my character on paper. just working out some of the details.

I can't give you a good recommendation without seeing the other character sheets. I will say you are thinking about it correctly, so I'm sure you'll make a good choice. The storyline of this will be the PCs against the demons, even if all the fights are not against demons. So a good-aligned outsider, a neutral one or even a devil who owes you a favor could be very useful.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Hey, for my 18 HD true name Can I summon an Eidilion that I wear like a suit? Powerword "super soldier" activate! !!

p.s. I'm totally kidding. I'd play another game if I wanted to be a power ranger.


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

There's a couple of different ways I could have explained how my Pureblooded could fit in, but it's understandable to say no, its the GMs call anyways.

Might need to do some investigatin on what race to be, as I didn't really have one in mind.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Monkeygod wrote:

There's a couple of different ways I could have explained how my Pureblooded could fit in, but it's understandable to say no, its the GMs call anyways.

Might need to do some investigatin on what race to be, as I didn't really have one in mind.

Be an elf or half elf. We can be brothers or something.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

I need a little advice. I have a +8 presently to overcome spell resistance. +2 Elf, +4 Spell penetration and greater spell penetration, +2 Robes of the arch magi.

I'm not sure how offensive i"m going to be, but do you think that's excessive?

You could go lower if you want to save on feats or cash. But, spell pen is like a to-hit roll for your spell. You always have the right amount until you miss.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Oh, and gang, if we're a group feel free to look over the list of permanency effects that I can put on others and pay the appropriate amount for the material component. I would do that for you if you want.

So, it would be possible to cast some Greater Magic Fang on my unarmed strikes for the right cost? If so, how much would it cost?

I never run mages so I'm not sure exactly how that works.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Javell DeLeon wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Oh, and gang, if we're a group feel free to look over the list of permanency effects that I can put on others and pay the appropriate amount for the material component. I would do that for you if you want.

So, it would be possible to cast some Greater Magic Fang on my unarmed strikes for the right cost? If so, how much would it cost?

I never run mages so I'm not sure exactly how that works.

It works exactly like the spell, but it changes the duration from whatever it is to "permanent" if you add the gold cost. In this case 7500.

Rd1: Cast spell (greater magic fang)
Rd 2: Cast permanent and add diamond dust. *poof* permanent duration

In the case of magic fang a single unarmed strike or natural weapon a bonus of +1 per 4 caster levels. 8th level caster can do a +2, etc. Or can make all unarmed strikes a +1 per casting.

here is the catch. It's a druid/ranger/summoner spell. I can make it permanent, but you have to find someone who can cast it.

Quick lesson: Permanent and Instant durations are two entirely different things. Permanent can be dispelled because the magic is essentially perpetual. Instant means that it's only magic long enough to make the change then returns to a non-magic state in it's new form. Just keep that in mind. These effects can be dispelled.

Star Voter 2013

Human

How do you feel about multiple effects on one item using the 50% of the higher cost formula wanting a ring of sustennce and protection +5 which would be 77,500g?


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Dm, I have an idea that I don't think is game breaking at this level, but it is quite impressive.

Multimorph discovery - Change forms within spell limits by using up 1 min of the spells duration.

Plus

Polymorph any object - as greater polymorph, but with variable durations.

So effectively as long as I change into something with a permanent duration before the timer for my current form is up I only ever have to cast Poly any object on myself once. In theory.

Base race Elf. I turn into a human (permanent duration). Suddenly I need to be an air elemental for some reason (20 min duration). In 18 minutes I turn into a human (permeant duration with one minute to spare). rinse repeat as needed.

Of course as we mentioned polymorphed you lose your stuff, but that may or may not be an issue. Of course if you put something onto the new form it wouldn't meld.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Talonhawke wrote:
How do you feel about multiple effects on one item using the 50% of the higher cost formula wanting a ring of sustennce and protection +5 which would be 77,500g?

I may need one of those too.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Gotcha. Thanks Tiny.

And that's a good question that Talonhawke asked. That's something that crossed my mind as well.

Edit: Yeah, I think I better stick with Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Edit again: All that stuff that Tiny just mentioned about Multimorph and blah, blah, blah; my brain just exploded. :P


Talonhawke wrote:
How do you feel about multiple effects on one item using the 50% of the higher cost formula wanting a ring of sustennce and protection +5 which would be 77,500g?

So long as you follow the normal rules for such things, it's fine. What is the other ring you want to wear?

Star Voter 2013

Human

planning for regeneration


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20
Javell DeLeon wrote:

Gotcha. Thanks Tiny.

And that's a good question that Talonhawke asked. That's something that crossed my mind as well.

Edit: Yeah, I think I better stick with Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Edit again: All that stuff that Tiny just mentioned about Multimorph and blah, blah, blah; my brain just exploded. :P

I'm just getting warmed up. ;-)

I'm just looking for neat tricks for this character.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Okay, so if you combine the abilities of both rings, it's the regular cost for the cheaper one + 1.5 times the cost of the more expensive one, correct?

Edit @Tiny: Lol! I honestly can't wait to see what your alias looks like after this! Quite the good stuff. :)


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

My brain is turning to mush, but I've got about 1/4 of my spell list done. SUbject to change with coffee in the morning.

Item cost:

SImilar abilities
Most costly = Normal cost
Second = 75% normal cost
any other abilities = 50% normal cost

Different abilities
Most costly = Normal cost
Second = Normal cost + 50%
repeat


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I can't spend all my gold on stuff. Spellcasting is expensive.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Anyone know of a winged race in any of the Monstrous manuals? Closer to PC race the better.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:

Dm, I have an idea that I don't think is game breaking at this level, but it is quite impressive.

Multimorph discovery - Change forms within spell limits by using up 1 min of the spells duration.

Plus

Polymorph any object - as greater polymorph, but with variable durations.

So effectively as long as I change into something with a permanent duration before the timer for my current form is up I only ever have to cast Poly any object on myself once. In theory.

Base race Elf. I turn into a human (permanent duration). Suddenly I need to be an air elemental for some reason (20 min duration). In 18 minutes I turn into a human (permeant duration with one minute to spare). rinse repeat as needed.

Of course as we mentioned polymorphed you lose your stuff, but that may or may not be an issue. Of course if you put something onto the new form it wouldn't meld.

You are correct in your reading of the feat and spell, so this is a valid option I will allow. You already noted some of the limitations. This would be vulnerable to dispel magic, disjoining and anti-magic zones like normal.


Javell DeLeon wrote:


Edit: Yeah, I think I better stick with Amulet of Mighty Fists.

Don't forget, the amulet is different than a weapon. You can put up to +5 worth of enchantment bonuses that can be placed on a melee weapon. You DO NOT have to put a single bonus to hit in the amulet. It could all be things like Flaming, Bane and the like.

Then you could pay for someone to cast Greater Magic Fang on you while the others cast Permanency and potentially make yourself a +10 weapon. You will have to worry about dispel magic, of course. The decision is up to you.

If your main concern is AC above all else, then a Tower Shield archetype fighter loaded with magic items is probably your best bet. At this level, you won't even have the penalty to hit rolls anymore (if you use the archetype).


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
My brain is turning to mush, but I've got about 1/4 of my spell list done. SUbject to change with coffee in the morning.

I knew that was going to happen! :)

Quote:

Item cost:

SImilar abilities
Most costly = Normal cost
Second = 75% normal cost
any other abilities = 50% normal cost

Different abilities
Most costly = Normal cost
Second = Normal cost + 50%
repeat

Okay. Now this is what I was thinking. But in Talonhawke's example, he has the ring of prot. +5 at 1.5 times. (50,000gp normal and 75,000gp when multiplied by 1.5) And then the ring of sustenance is included.

I was thinking it was 50,000g for the RoP and 3,750g for the RoS. For 53,750g total. 'Cause that's how I always built items and that's why I was asking.

Basically, the 'extra' ability that's added on (whatever that might be), is what cost the 1.5 times.

Star Voter 2013

Human

yeah i always do the more expensive since it sets a better example for my players who would always go witht eh cheaper abiility second unless they had no choice.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
GM_Arbiter wrote:


Don't forget, the amulet is different than a weapon. You can put up to +5 worth of enchantment bonuses that can be placed on a melee weapon. You DO NOT have to put a single bonus to hit in the amulet. It could all be things like Flaming, Bane and the like.

Then you could pay for someone to cast Greater Magic Fang on you while the others cast Permanency and potentially make yourself a +10 weapon. You will have to worry about dispel magic, of course. The decision is up to you.

You mean Greater Magic Fang would actually stack with an amulet? Aren't they both enhancement bonuses?

I will say dipel magic is the most irritating spell of all. :P It's unstoppable! There's no save, nothing. I have an 18th level fighter I was running in an adventure vs. some Eldritch giants from 3rd edition.(I think 3rd) Anyway, there were like four of 'em and they beat us senseless. We couldn't win. I also have an 18th level cleric that was the buffing machine in the same party! (Yeah, in RL I always run two pc's. I've done it forever, due to lack of players) But not with the constant casting of dispel magic. UGHHHHH! I was impressed, honestly. But it was still soooo irritating.

I've looked and looked for an item or a feat or something, that would counter that spell. I've never found anything.

Quote:
If your main concern is AC above all else, then a Tower Shield archetype fighter loaded with magic items is probably your best bet. At this level, you won't even have the penalty to hit rolls anymore (if you use the archetype).

Yeah that is pretty tempting. I'm gonna build all three of them in herolabs and see what I come up with. Still leaning strong on the Monk, but it'll be interesting to see how the others pan out.


Male Weremonkey Rogue/Ranger/Trickster

Think I'm gonna Aasimar, Inquisitor of Iomedae, with the War domain.


Javell DeLeon wrote:


Basically, the 'extra' ability that's added on (whatever that might be), is what cost the 1.5 times.

This is correct, assuming you are putting two different magical abilities into one item that is worn on one of the "body slots." So, you could choose to buy the more expensive ring and then add the cheaper effect when determining which cost is multiplied by 1.5.

Yeah, that's a rule that assumes you always start at level 1. (page 549 CRB).


Talonhawke wrote:
yeah i always do the more expensive since it sets a better example for my players who would always go witht eh cheaper abiility second unless they had no choice.

Please do it the cheaper way for now. In play, the same rules will be in effect and you can overpay at that time. :)


Male Human Varasian Chirgun 18

Thank you. Also Updated profile with what gear I have and am about to Add feats and discoveries.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness
Talonhawke wrote:
yeah i always do the more expensive since it sets a better example for my players who would always go witht eh cheaper abiility second unless they had no choice.

Ah, I see. Well that's pretty cool. And it makes me less confused as well. I'm just glad I wasn't doing it wrong this whole time. :p


Javell DeLeon wrote:
You mean Greater Magic Fang would actually stack with an amulet? Aren't they both enhancement bonuses?

I do mean that. The +1 to +5 to hit and damage are enhancement bonuses. Flaming burst and the like are "weapon bonuses" to refer to the chart. They all stack, otherwise you could never have a +5 weapon or a +2 Flaming Burst longsword of speed.

However, you are correct to worry about dispel magic. Some high level demons have access to dispel magic as a spell-like ability. One good roll and all your money goes away. The amulet can also hold +1 to +5 to hit; you could buy wands or potions of Greater Magic Fang (depending on the level of the spell; someone can summon a creature that can cast such a spell. You do have options, but ambushes and the like will make consumables more difficult to use.


Male Humanly Awesome 'n Totally Rockin' Paladin of Greatness

Cool. That's something to think about then. Thanks for the heads up on that. I didn't realize that.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I have up to 8th level wizard spells and 7th level cleric spells. Any suggestions on "must have" spells for the group or our anti-demon romp?

Haste, Teleport, heal, I have. Any other thoughts?


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

Oh, DM, ALso I bought and used a scroll of Greater demiplane and made it permanent.

I'll get more details to you as I can, but here are the main features.:

Essentially It's a deathtrap with only one safe area. The safe area is highly hidden.

The entire place is a labyrinth of danger and death built by an genius level intelligence (int 26). Planned out over months. There is one safe area which can only be reached by following a very specific path in a very specific way. The "safe zone" is effectively a tower within the labyrinth. The shape of the place is self contained, so basically it loops back on itself in physically impossible ways. (see; bizarre MC. Escher painting below)

The gravity is Objective gravity. In other words in some places the wall is the floor or the ceiling is the floor. The whole place is like a bizarre MC. Escher painting.

The plane is Timeless. Time still passes in the prime material, but the effects are diminished by the plane. Hunger, thirst, aging, and poison effects are effectively on pause while withing the plane. However, Natural Healing is unaffected (by design).

Thanks to the Timeless magic planar trait non-instantaneous spells cast are effectively permanent (unless they rely on the casters presence in which case the spells dissipate when he leaves). This allows for all kinds of fun things and adds to the whole deathtrap motif. My character has placed countless spell traps and dangers in this place, including but not limited to rooms with very nasty summoned demons trapped in them and glyphs everywhere. My character considers it a prison. If they're trapped on his plane they can't sew chaos and death elsewhere. As they are Summoned creatures (per summon monster 1-8) they must obey his commands. He always includes a base set such that keeps them from escaping or causing trouble. However, they all have the instruction to kill anyone or anything that enters their room save him. However by design the spells Limited wish, Mages Disjunction, miracle, and wish can only be cast on the plane by the original caster. This prevents an interloper from destroying the plane in it's entirety. Of course a god level being can do whatever the hell they want in this and all things. The whole place save one room (the entry room) is covered in an effect that prevents teleportation or scrying by any but the planes creator. In other words he can scry or teleport within the plane, but no one else can. The "entry room" is a save and comfortable room with a few sparse, but well made, pieces of furniture and one non-trapped door (the opposite side is trapped allowing them to exit the room unmolested, but not reenter).

It's mildly good aligned. Evil creatures take a -2 on all charisma based checks.

Everything not mentioned is the same as the prime material.

The whole thing is a bit complex. WHen you're building your own plane it's likely to be. Feel free to ask for clarification as needed. I am building this place as a secure respite from the demonic entities we no doubt make.

Fun Features:

"the study" - There are actually three such lounges. This room is not protected from scrying, but teleport is still blocked. This room has a twine double (50% chance to scry this instead of caster) of my character looking over various books etc. Otherwise the room is completely normal. Of course if something does manage to get to this room there are a number of blast glyphs/explosive runes/other fun nasties that will be set off when the twine double is struck effectively reducing anything in the room to a fine powder. There is also an alarm set up that will cause a specific candle per room to light in the real safe area. Nothing happens with the candle, save it burns down, but it lets my character know something is up. The door to these rooms are also heavily warded/barred/etc.

The entire place is covered in multiple overlapping Antipathy (demons/devils/etc) effects save the rooms where demons/devils/etc are kept.

An ablative sphere room.

A shaft (or three) covered in animated limbs that will pull apart any who try to traverse it. Though something valuable always appears to be at the bottom Or top.

"the brothers" a pair of statues that perpetually argue with each other. They claim that one always tells the truth and one always lies. They appear to tell riddles, but frankly all they do is promise to help never actually giving any helpful information. They are designed to waste time.

Many hallways have free range black puddings in them. (per summon black pudding spell). The place where the pudding is kept have been designed so they can't get to some areas (like the initial room and the safe room), but they have free range for most areas.

I'm sure I'll think of more in time, but you get the gist.

Edit: added room ideas.


What it says on the tin; Caffiene addict 20

I'm onto cleric spells. The other players may want to consider things like, a resurrection spell + greater restoration (needed to remove negative level) costs a total of 15,000 in diamond dust. I'm not sure how many of those I can afford.

On that note:

Item idea:

Regenerative diamond:

This fist sized flawless diamond is a great boon to casters of all kinds, but particularly divine casters. Though the diamond is as tough as a normal diamond the holder can will a portion of the diamond to fall off in either powder or solid form as a free action. The removed portion lasts for three rounds before transmuting to common coal. In those three rounds the removed portion can be used in any way standard diamond dust could be, such as spell casting applications. Up to 45,000 GP worth of diamond can be removed this way in a day. Every 24 hours (generally at dawn) the diamond will regrow any parts that have been removed.

Item cost: $50,000

Essentially it's a custom item that saves me from having to constantly buy diamond dust.

Marathon Voter 2013

m Orc 8 Fighter / 2 Champion

Also, a Cracked Pearly White Spindle in a Wayfinder costs 3900 gp. It effectively keeps you from being killed until the bad guys can pull it off your person. It only regenerates 1 HP an hour, but it is enough to keep you alive while it is still in your possession, even if they take you under your Con Bonus. I have to believe it will save us a whole lot of money.

Marathon Voter 2013

m Orc 8 Fighter / 2 Champion
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Anyone know of a winged race in any of the Monstrous manuals? Closer to PC race the better.

The Strix

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