The Father of Waters

Game Master Fighting Chicken

Oooohhhhhh, I forgot we had moved onto D8 diplomacy!

Yes, I ran the numbers, and it is 20% more effective than d6 diplomacy.

Also, I think it would be funny if the beastlings had some kind of a deal with these fish-folk and we're just being used as a tool to get rid of them.

No time post but Oios bamf to 10 feet away wand and spear stab roll please.

Also, I think it would be funny if the beastlings had some kind of a deal with these fish-folk and we're just being used as a tool to get rid of them.

I wish I would have thought of this.

I'm going to give D another day to check in.

They say one of the top rules of GMing is to steal ideas from your players!

@GMBP; how much of the non-mechanics stay the same and are known? Specifically background, lifespan and especially reproduction?

Imix with some minor edits, it is mostly the same:

Edit: Beastling and Ulat-Kini entries on the wiki updated/created.

Uh, the potions of waterbreathing do let us talk underwater don't they? I mean, I'd assume Aquan anyway, but just want to check before I brief everyone.

I always figure sound travels better underwater so why wouldn't you be able to do dolphin squeaks or whale song type communication.

Human vocal cords are incapable of producing coherent language underwater.

Most divers use writing boards or hand signals, though there are nifty ultrasound transducers these days. I'm not the GM but I'd say unless we were using magic that Imix in Suriname form, or Drazen in water elemental form, speaking Aquan would probably be the only way we could communicate.

It makes sense that Aquan could be communicated under water. Maybe the language is just a bunch of squeaks and stuff?

Yeah, I figured Aquan must be something suited to underwater.
I thought the potions let you treat water as air.
I'm all good either way, just not sure how to have Imix brief people if not.

Rephrase:
Can Imix translate/explain to the party what is happening?
If he legitimately can't explain, he'll look at cutting a deal. If he can he'll report back.

I'm not finding anything on language. I can check the AP that is underwater when I get home - perhaps there's clarification in there.

For now, let's say that Aquan can be spoken under water.

Istiel:

"I loot the room."

I am worried we are talking past each other.

Can Imix use non-aquan to talk to the other PCs in the room?

Okay, I looked up Aquatic adventures, apparently from blood of the sea.

Language: Most aquatic races can speak Common, allowing them to communicate with many surface races. But aquatic creatures, particularly those who are nonamphibious, are used to talking underwater, where sound carries differently. As a result, they speak with rounded consonants and elongated vowel sounds. Some surfacers may mistake the accent as one from a different land region, while others don’t even notice the lilt to an aquatic speaker’s Common.

I'm pretty confident from this that given the waterbreathing potion makes someone able to breathe water they will be able to speak, but it'll sound weird. Vowels will come through better. I reckon Aquan probably has a lot of sounds that work well underwater.

Sure, go for it. I suspect it will cause more problems than it is worth to have you all delving in water and not able to speak.

I propose we return to the canoe, dropping off the tribute and the priestess. We can then go back and explore the rest of the rooms we missed. No reason to waste the water breathing potions and buffs!

Note that the priestess is breathing water as well. She however doesn't speak Aquan.

I figured being an eel and all she's either aquatic or amphibious. Guess we'll find out!

I'm going to put this game on hold until Oios and Drazan check back in from vacation, since their input would be good to have. I think Oios is back soon?

Let me know how you all want to proceed with the skum, and I'll pick it up from there.

Options:

Kill him, let him go, other?

Israel doesn't care, really. He surrendered thus there's no glory in killing him, so he can be let go. However she would not protest ending him if it was decided as such- to her, the skum is merely a talking monster.

Yeah, would like to wait for Oios.

Looks like Imix is the deciding vote here. Does the fish-man live or die?

OK, so you have an Ulat-Kini leader, a bunch of old stargazing equipment that can be used for tribute, it is late morning, and the stormreaders arrive the day after tomorrow.

Are you exploring the rest of the planetarium or going back to home base with what you've got?

I don't see any reason to waste the water breathing potions. Let's explore the rest of the planetarium and kick more ass.

Been in meetings since 9 am. Blerg.

I'll try and get us moving tonight, if not, I'll be able to get us moving tomorrow afternoon, as I'm taking a half-day.

Nice description GM, you really have a talent for describing places!

This... thing.. hmm.. I don't... I don't think it can be punched, guys.

Do we have anything we could use against an underwater swarm?

Yes, you do...

Well we have Drazan.

The swarm is composed of tiny creatures, so it takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. You also have Oios's wand. Though it would affect those in the swarm at this point.

@Imix, am I reading your entry correctly in that you're channeling?

Anyone looking through the PF2 playtest? I just started digesting it. It is pretty radically different.

I thought of Oios' wand, but it would catch us as well. Istiel is very good at reflex saves and has Improved Evasion so she would probably be fine, but Imix....

How much room is there to maneuver in the room? Can we move out of the swarm?

Haven't looked through the playest yet, but will soon!

Yep, you can maneuver. The room is roughly 20 x 20.

But the swarm is in front of the human-sized ... ting? Urchin? So Istiel will have to be in the swarm to attack it, correct?

Looked through the playtest, and I like what I'm seeing. I'm glad they're simplifying so many systems and getting rid of ways for people min-max the hell out of everything.

My favorite paragraph was:

Sometimes using a skill in a specific
situation might require you to have a higher proficiency
rank than what is listed on the table. For instance, even
though a high-level barbarian untrained in Arcana could
reliably use Arcana to Recall Knowledge regarding the
breath weapons of the various colors of dragons, the GM
might decide that Recalling Knowledge about the deeper
theories behind magical energy of a dragon’s breath
weapon might be something beyond the scope of the
barbarian’s largely utilitarian and anecdotal knowledge
about how to fight dragons.

You can maneuver out of the swarm and around to the other side or top of the urchin. The swarm is basically 2 5' squares.

I'm glad there's less math and a flatter curve to advancement. I think I like the way they're doing multiclassing.

One thing I think I'd houserule is to give everyone two ancestry feats at level 1.

I agree on skills. It seems like having skilled PCs might actually be worth investing in now.

Still digesting a lot.

No action yet - wanted to confirm they were alive. The death-water hasn't supported much in the way of living stuff, so a swarm like this is an anomaly.
Remembering the insects from earlier, I wondered if these were death-corrupted fish, in which case channeling Life might make a difference.
On the other hand it could just be that these are alive fish that somehow live here.

Sorry about the post, I made it just before I went to bed, and somehow I left out a spoiler tag - I think I deleted it in a last minute edit.

I am reading up on PF2. I'm a fan, I think. Doing a playtest, but still at level 1. Main problem at the moment is that it is different - not starfinder, not pathfinder 1 and just different enough that it lulls me into a false sense of security!

I also would give (at least) 2 racial ancestries early! I also don't think they should balance humans by giving them a better feat list. If necessary give humans an additional "wildcard" feat, sure. That would then make them the "natural" half-x race.
Basically; I can imagine a half-dwarf, half-gnome etc ancestry. Can you imagine giving an elf half-human? What would it do?

Yeah, kind of upset they're continuing the trend of humans being overpowered... it's always rustled my jimmies.

If I haven't made it clear, there is some life in the death water. Less than in the waters of your homelands, and what is there tends to be malformed and disease-ridden (which I haven't always done a good job of highlighting, I think).

Consider it kind of like living in a really toxic environment, one with chemical plumes in the ground or something like that. Life near those environments seems to have a larger incidence of death by disease, chronic health problems, etc.

So, short exposure to such things is not harmful, but long-term exposure certainly will lead to illness and death.

The urchins are alive and (relatively) well.

Re: PF2

Are you doing the Doomsday Dawn playtest, Imix? Any surprises that have caught you so far?

Is the human feat list better than the others? As someone who largely plays humans and human-hybrids, my first read on humans was disappointment.

Drazan's up!

I'm assuming that Drazan meant to pull Imix and Istiel from the swarm.

Drazan, please confirm.

I think the basic engine of PF2 is pretty awesome. The action economy, the degrees of success, the UTEML proficiency system. I think it's all well thought and takes complexity away from stacking bonuses and redirects it to decisions on what to do round by round, which is a better place for it.

Humans can get a class feat right at first level which I think is one of the best ancestry feats there is. Natural Ambition I think they call it?

I do think they need to be more generous with ancestry feats at low levels.

I joined a PBEM playtest game but that's just not getting off the ground which is frustrating.

I think the basic engine of PF2 is pretty awesome. The action economy, the degrees of success, the UTEML proficiency system. I think it's all well thought and takes complexity away from stacking bonuses and redirects it to decisions on what to do round by round, which is a better place for it.

I was thinking this but wasn't smart enough to articulate it, so thanks for putting it into words, Oios!

Would anyone here be interested in a playtest game?

I would!

Okies, I'll wait for other responses here but can reach out to a couple of other folks as well.

I took a quick perusal of the playtest adventure(s) and imagine that many are starting with the first one. Maybe we can start with "In Pale Mountain's Shadow" to add a few levels and complexity? I'd not be worried much about backstory, etc., just a few general keywords you could use to have a personality to call on. Crunch of course is the main importance here.

The adventure assumes PCs would know each other, so once we have a group of players together I'll set up a discussion board to iron out class roles.

RE PF2

Heck yeah!

I'm very interested in trying out one of the archetypes.

We're only at level 1 at the moment. The game runs slowly, but I think is because it is similar to PF1, but not so similar you can think of it like houserules as it is with unchained.
Not helped by the fact I'm learning 5e for another game literally at the same time (the books are on top of each other on my table).

I love the new monster writeups so far. Each monster is unique, without me having to look up a bajillion special abilities.

They recently released an update to the rulebook - some of the changes are tiny, but some are pretty key (starting skills, how sneak works, the fact people are trained at unarmed defence, etc).

Thanks to this game the three action system was pretty intuitive to me ;P Some of my players are having a little trouble adjusting.

@Oios: I agree on the multiple starting ancestries. I think they are trying to keep the number of initial choices lower - but I disagree with it. I also think the basic chassis are a bit too basic.

@GMBP: I haven't played a human, and people don't seem very interested. There seems to be a perception they have the best feat list. I think this is a mistake by Paizo if true - I'd prefer them to get a racial "wildcard" feat rather than have everyone tempted to be adopted by a human.

Discussion board and Gameplay are set up for the PF2 playtest. Dot in and join the discussion if you're interested. I'll be looking for 4 or 5 players total.

Thanks for the notification on the updates, Imix! I wasn't aware they're revising things already.

I'll move us along tomorrow evening if Drazan hasn't chimed in, with the interpretation that he's pulling Istiel and Imix from the swarm.

Shoot I thought I had it right, anyone that is in the swarm Drazan wants to pull out so he can vortex without pummeling them.

Very interested as well, I'll pop on over and dot in a moment.