The Father of Waters

Game Master Fighting Chicken

Here's Shadeholme's current population:

There are 200 villagers.

There's 5 PCs and the following "named" NPCs, that if they fit into a team, I've noted in () next to the entry:

Telowo
Bellet
Texikuk
Issy
Hamfatten
Chukix

That leaves 189 villagers, including:

Tetchuix (engineer)
Apachan (engineer)
Telia (engineer)

Utzi (soldier)
Antuk (soldier)
Aktuk (soldier)
Scree (soldier)
The Rheumy (soldier)
Sarre (soldier)
Utzi (soldier)
Suuha (soldier)
Hamfatten's 5 apprentices (soldier)

Helgya (acolyte)

Helaya (craftspeople: hunter)
Lijart (craftspeople: hunter)

Cogsward (craftspeople: farmer)

Fulton (craftspeople: weaponsmith)

Korya (craftspeople: fisher)

Jalya (laborer)
Paola (laborer)
Nando (laborer)
Ogwe (laborer)

Imix's 5 pupils (non-combatants)

Soldiers: 11 teams (5 pp each)

Shadeholme has 5 teams of soldiers, and Bellet has 5 teams of soldiers, Hamfatten has one team. That leaves 134 villagers.

Engineers: 1 team (3 pp)

131 villagers

Acolyte: 1 team (1 pp)

130 villagers

Hunters: 2 teams (3 pp ea)

124 villagers

Farmers: 2 teams (3 pp ea)

118 villagers

Fishers: 1 team (3 pp ea)

115 villagers

Bureaucrats 1 team (5 pp ea)

100 villagers

Laborers (5 teams)

75 villagers

...

That leaves 75 people that have little skills; they are children, the infirm, the mentally scarred, the elderly.

So, 15 are fishers/farmers/hunters, and have a +5 modifier. Let's say the 55 soldiers have an average of +2. Helgya has a +9. Issy has a +5, but moves at 10' while foraging, making her effectively useless unless you want to really slow down. The two engineers will have a +5. Everyone else has a +0, excepting the 5 PCs in Shadeholme (121 people).

Most people were in attendence at the execution and subsequent attack on Shadeholme, but those that wouldn't have been were likely the more survivalist types like farmers, hunters, etc. (and were probably largely the first groups to suffer casualties, but also be taken alive). Thus, it follows that the bulk of the defeated being offered back to you are likely those types, as well. One team of each. with two teams of laborers.

Likely they hope to accomplish whatever they need to with Telewo in 3 days so that's a wash. One Istiel will not be enough to stop them from forcing her to stay outside while they do what they need to do. If Telewo is actually unharmed and unaltered he is likely either an important divine power somehow or an enemy agent, we are better off using him as one of the bodies we poison our water supply with, that way no one wins.

I say give them the middle finger and welcome their siege. Free men fight here in Shadeholme, but at least we will die on our feet from potentially murder and starvation, but at least we die free. Otherwise I'm still for sacking the village and making a run for it. They clearly want Shadeholme in one piece, potentially are going hungry, and they don't plan on honoring anything seeing as they are injecting spies into our peoples so they can see where we are going in case they need our stuff again.

Drazan, Oios: you want to vote?

Drazan, Oios: you want to vote?

I vote burn it down and run

1. CABDE

2. ACBD

3. ABCD

Vote 1
CBADE Istiel
CBEDA Imix
CBDAE Nat
CDABE Naira
????? Drazan
CABDE Oios
Declared for C
c) Go with whatever compromise in our favor that Oios/Naira is able to make with their social skills

Vote 2
ABCD Istiel
CBAD Imix
BACD Nat
ABCD? Naira
????? Drazan
ACBD Oios
Declared for A
a) Keep our word, leave peacefully

Vote 3
BACD Istiel
ACBD Imix
AB-- Nat
ACBD NAira
????? Drazan
ABCD Oios
Declared for A
a) The South

Excellent. To the south we go- I say we spend the three days loading up the boats and sailing off. Could a Knowledge: Geography check tell us if there is a good way to head south via waterway? (Until we get to the cliff, of course.)

OOC I truly loathe leaving the Frozen The Three People's hard work and would love to see the Flame denied. But Istiel is lawful to an L and will keep her word to protect Shadeholme's citizens.

It will be fun when we're off on an adventure somewhere without the involvement of Shadeholme's citizens, so I can show let Istiel's truly brutal run free. >:3

Okay - first rough spreadhseet is here
This assumes the chance of maxing a roll, and if you make it by 2, then you get an extra day of food.
I'm not sure about the extra day if make by 2 thing.
a Survival +0 at DC 10 will get
50% chance of 1
40% chance of 2
30% chance of 3
20% chance of 4
10% chance of 5
This means that at DC 10 they will (on average) find 3.5 days of food.

This'll be the difference between stasis at DC 11 and DC 16

so I can show let Istiel's truly brutal run free. >:3

This is what happens when you post on your phone in a hurry. Don't let this happen to you.

I'd like to say Istiel will single handedly destroy the Frozen camp, but hopefully she won't get herself/Telowo killed.

I don't understand the final offer exactly!

OOC I truly loathe leaving the Frozen The Three People's hard work and would love to see the Flame denied.

Good! That's by design! It will make it sweeter when you take it back.

spreadsheet stuff

There's a reason my BA was in poetry, haha. I'm not a math guy. I'll take your word for it. Even though I don't understand it, it looks impressive!

I don't understand the final offer exactly!

Sorry for the confusion!

1) You get one week of travel within the forest without any interference from the Frozen.

2) You get as much as you can take with you, and leave everything else, unmolested, for the Frozen.

3) The Frozen take Shadeholme.

4) Ashekesh and 10 honor guard are your guests for three days, while you pack and plan.

5) Istiel is the guest of the Frozen.

6) Ashkesh will choose one person as an additional captor, who will join the Frozen as guest.

7) In return, you will get one of your people, freed, immediately as soon as his choice is made.

Ah so basically the final offer is, if we want to spare Telowo then Ashkesh gets to pick someone else to be a 'guest'?

Question though. I thought we were getting all of their captives back right away? If not when are the captives getting released?

Ah so basically the final offer is, if we want to spare Telowo then Ashkesh gets to pick someone else to be a 'guest'?

And they don't keep the guest forever, which was their original intent.

Question though. I thought we were getting all of their captives back right away? If not when are the captives getting released?

Not if Ahskesh is inside. No captives are released until he is back safely.

Isn't Telowo going as a guest as well? Istiel was only going to serve as his bodyguard for the three days. It was not her intention to be a solo prisoner.

I think they are actually being sincere here and want to discuss faith with Telowo. They may want to know how to not piss off the gods of the Valley. Honestly, this would be a great chance to learn more about the Flame.

Though, Istiel will still go even if Telowo is not if it comes down to it.

^ Originally Telowo was going as a guest. Then you guys said no, (in effect; Imix was all suspicious and mentioned that you all had lot of other high-value hostages). The woman ran with that and made another proposal. She'll take the deal with you and Telowo as the guests, but is also countering.

Since the Frozen would be picking out the hostage, it won't be possible to pick that person out right away.

So, instead of being a bodyguard, the counterproposal is that you are the insurance for Ashkesh while he's in Eel Mound at least until he selects their guest.

I'd rather the deal one earlier with Telowo and Isitel going. Oios would do a loyalty scan on Telowo though. The other deal leaves too much to Ashkesh. If dude picks the Lady Bennet that would lead to a revolt by her guard.

Final thing Oios would say though is that Ashkesh gets one honour guard not ten. Since Telowo gets just one.

Yeah, I'd rather it be Istiel + Telowo as well, but I'll go with either.

You can try on reducing the guard Oios, but if I was Ashkesh I wouldn't set foot in Shadeholme without at least 5 people watching my back.

What is your plan for the next three days? Where you putting up Ash and his honor guard?

Istiel, what is your intention for your three days?

Can we retcon Oios insisting one guardsman for Ashkesh in exchange for one guard for Telowo?

Istiel didn't think much past volunteering to protect Telowo (glorrrryyyy), and neither have I.

It all depends on what they do with us, but Istiel will insist on being by Telowo's side at all times, no matter what. Should something happen to him she would consider it a great failure on her part. This religious discussion intrigues me the most. Otherwise, she will observe what she can of the Frozen operations/way of life.

In any case, Telowo better get used to using the latrine with Istiel staring at him.

Also, how much does that birch trunk the prisoners are carrying weigh? Istiel will stick with Telowo but if he stays with the prisoners she will help them carry the burch trunk. She can carry 300 pounds overhead without penalty, and up to 600 staggering.

I'm actually against one guardsman.
We've not much discipline, and a lot of angry civilians.
One guard will have to take breaks. That leaves a window for an assassination attempt.

I think Imix is going to get back to organising and teaching. Depending on how the packing up goes, he might need to intervene to help there.

We still don't know how far they claim.

Y'know, I play Imix as paranoid... but so far he's been guessing right a lot. Everything is a conspiracy and the world will end.

Appreciate you making him sound wise rather than crazy GMBP. Let's hope this new priestess isn't a plant ;P

Super-Priest-Divination-Powers-Go, Oios!

Oh yeah, can I at least retcon Divining Loyalty on Telowo before he leaves? Need it for before and after comparison purposes :(

Hectic day today.

@Oios, yes on the loyalties, no on the guards.

@Imix, ask Ashkesh. He'll tell you.

I hope to update tonight, perhaps tomorrow.

EDIT: @Nat, you'll be awake soon. Feel free to inert yourself. You'll be with Ashkesh and the guards at Imix's place.

Where is Imix's place? Weren't you staying with Tex, Imix?

Hmm. Tex's place got blowed up.
Can I have him have taken over the mayor's suite? A lot of people are going to be put off by all the death that happened there. Does mean we'd now not be using the tunnel, but probably best to do that anyway - keep it as an ace in the hole.

OK, just waiting on my cue :)

BTW, Imix: how much of a crocodile does he look like in his humanoid form? It might be important to how Nat reacts to you, at least initially.

Not much at all. Can definitely pass as human.
In the Hybrid form, a lot less so (and a big penalty to charisma).
Sadly he can't go full Croc yet.

Busy day today. Won't be able to post till Monday guys.

Hmm. Tex's place got blowed up.

Can I have him have taken over the mayor's suite? A lot of people are going to be put off by all the death that happened there. Does mean we'd now not be using the tunnel, but probably best to do that anyway - keep it as an ace in the hole.

Oh yeah, that's right. Poor Tex is probably sleeping at the warehouses.

The Mayor's Suite it is. Chuk is going to have to clean up all the blood though.

I hope to be able to update at lunch.

@ Nat, I'll get you a cue then.

Istiel, I'll get a post up tomorrow about what's going with you.

Time to start planning. You're headed south. What are you taking with you?

Are you using the boats or going over land?

Are you taking goods, or food, or both, or something else?

Any Shadeholmer, or Naira, can tell you that the Cheya Canal is drawn from the Cheya River, that is formulated from the snowmelt and small mountain springs of the south end of the Teeth of the World. Although it isn't as grand a river as the Father of Waters, it is a viable waterway - or would be, if its course wasn't mostly southeast, where, like the Father of Waters, the Cheya spills over the cliffside left by the great cataclysm.

Time to start planning. You're headed south. What are you taking with you?

Are you using the boats or going over land?

Are you taking goods, or food, or both, or something else?

Any Shadeholmer, or Naira, can tell you that the Cheya Canal is drawn from the Cheya River, that is formulated from the snowmelt and small mountain springs of the south end of the Teeth of the World. Although it isn't as grand a river as the Father of Waters, it is a viable waterway - or would be, if its course wasn't mostly southeast, where, like the Father of Waters, the Cheya spills over the cliffside left by the great cataclysm.

BOATS. I propose we load up everything we are not leaving to the Frozen. Food and Goods. All of it. Go down the Cheya Canal/River and head for the cliffside waterfall. We dock before we get to the edge, and have our engineers dismantle the ships to build into a mechanism to lower things/people down the side of the cliff while everyone else forages.

Here are some helpful spoilers/quotes for what I'm about to talk about:

Tally for future maths:

We have (not taking into account those that will stay behind):

*200 people
*300 Goods
*12,000 food units
*6 keelboats
*7 canoes

Here is the link to our Spreadsheet detailing what I'm about to talk about. I formatted it really poorly but it gets the job done. Imix, I would encourage you to put your nifty gathering chart into our spreadsheet too!

I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the Downtime system (and it looks like we're going to have to get nice and familiar with it), but I propose we build Sailor teams for our 6 keelboats and use them. It will cost 42 goods.

I may think of other teams we should build as well. I don't know who will be training them, unless one of us has Sailor profession?

This calculation does not take into account those that will wish to stay behind, those that cannot be moved, or the new prisoners, but:

*Keelboats Dedicated to Goods: 1
*Goods Carried: 45

*Keelboats Dedicated to Food: 2
*Food Carried: 900

*Keelboats Dedicated to People: 3
*People Carried: 150 *People in Canoes: 35 *Sailors in Food/Goods Keelboats: 15

*Total People: 200

*Days of Food Carried: 4.5

Yeah.... it's not good. We will be running at half rations for a while to stretch it to 9 days, at least. Or go half speed down the river, foraging as we go. We can substitute a Goods ship for another Food ship too to bring the food count to 6.75 days, but really, I think we'll need those to build something to get down the cliff.

Walking isn't much better, except everyone can carry 10 food. But it will take us at LEAST twice as long to walk to the cliffside than boat.

I don't know how many handcarts we have.

Can we get some knowledge checks to determine how quickly we could reach the southern cliffs by Road, Forest, or Boat please?

QUESTION FOR BP: Will we have to upgrade our Laborer teams to Sailor teams, or can we train them from the 75 useless villagers? They also have a build time of 0, but these are... extreme circumstances...

I'm also assuming villagers can't carry their 1 good or 10 food AND be on the keelboats? It's keelboats carry people OR goods/foods, correct?

Interesting symbolism with the rain disappearing... is Damballah (or any of the other gods) trying to tell us something?

Looks like you guys have a situation on your hands... Intimidate check them back into submission!

Remember there are four teams coming back to us (if I understood the deal). Farmers, Hunters, Laborers x2.
That's sixteen more bodies, but 6 bodies that can do well at gathering.

I'm not sure we need sailor Teams, so much as we need people with the profession. It's possible we may have such people - or people who possess the knowledge - already. We need to know that (do we need them, do we have them)
That said, I have no problem with turning some of our laborers into sailors. Good chance we'll end up sailing again, and maybe using them as fishermen.

GMBP has previously said it is possible to build crappy rowboats. I envisioned them more as rafts. This might let us get goods down.

Unbelievably Imix has had a power since the start that would help.

You may spend a spell point to cause plants to sprout food spontaneously. You may affect up to 1 plant per caster level within range. Each plant produces enough food to provide 3 medium-sized creatures or 1 horse with food for a day.

In theory he can feed 42 people per day.

Also: that makes retrieving and repairing the boats we have top priority.

Unbelievably Imix has had a power since the start that would help.

Quote:

You may spend a spell point to cause plants to sprout food spontaneously. You may affect up to 1 plant per caster level within range. Each plant produces enough food to provide 3 medium-sized creatures or 1 horse with food for a day.

In theory he can feed 42 people per day.

This is incredible! This will be a huge boon... if you don't trigger wild magic and poison an entire hex worth of food :p

There is a small risk, yes ;P
Also, it burns through magical components.
And I got the number wrong - up to 126 people.
Means I'd rather take Goods than extra food.
I'd rather take Goods and Food than leave them.

Can you explain to me how the components work/link me to the rules? I just want to understand how all this works and contribute to discussion.

But yes I agree, we'll want more goods. And some backup food in case of wild magic. :p

Wow, I never thought Imix would be the source of our food!

So If Imix is generating 126 food a day, and we use the same configuration, (carrying 900 food in keelboats), that's still only 12.16 days of food without foraging. Enough to make it to the cliff and more, hopefully.

Relying on Imix - as you pointed out - is risky. We're pretty much guaranteed a wild event every day. A wild event could take out a boat (for instance).

We need to find the extent. Remember once we're out of the forest, the deal doesn't apply.
We may be better using the boats exclusively for food, goods, and those who would slow us down. Healthy adults can march.

Also: let the feasting begin. We know hunger is coming, and we can't take all our food. Let's see if we can't get a bit of fat on people's bones.

How long do we think it would take to walk (30ft)/sail to the cliffs? Whatever they claim, I think once we're down we're significantly safer.

sailors:

SAILORS
Earnings
gp, Goods, or Labor +2
Create
1 Goods, 1 Influence, 2 Labor (90 gp);
Time
0 days
Size
5 people
Upgrades From
Laborers
Sailors know how to sail a ship, navigate while at sea, and
defend the vessel against pirates and other hostile boarders.
A typical sailor is a 2nd-level expert (
NPC Codex
260) with 2
ranks each in Acrobatics, Climb, Perception, Profession (sailor),
Survival, and Swim.

BP on Goods and Food:

GMBP wrote:
Important Rules about Goods and Food
Rather than make an exact accounting of every single supply in Shadeholme, we're going to be using the downtime rules, with all those supplies represented as abstracted "goods".
Shadeholme has: 300 goods.
These goods can be exchanged, per the downtime rules, at a 2:1 ratio, for labor, magic, and influence (in other words, you're giving someone some wood, for example, for their help building a barn).
Technically, these are Shadeholme's goods, which you can steward for the public good. If you abuse it or make silly decisions, people will be mad.
Some NPCs also have capital and/or teams, which they can use as they see fit.
----------
If you run, you can take the goods with you, within the confines you've got described below, but you'll also have to take food.
Food is an abstract unit. One villager will consume 1 food per day.
One villager can carry 1 good OR 10 food. Handcarts can carry 5 goods OR 50 food (let's devote carts to carrying either goods or food, so as not to get too complicated). Handcarts will only be usable on roads or well-kept paths (so, if you're going into the mountains, for example, you won't be able to bring handcarts).
There are also keelboats. Boats can only go on rivers/lakes. Boats can carry 50 people OR 5 sailors and 45 goods OR 5 sailors and 450 food. You don't know how many boats, if any, are at the boat landing.
There are also canoes. Canoes can only go on rivers/lakes BUT they can be portaged, by 2 villagers carrying nothing else (no food or goods). Canoes can carry 5 people OR 5 goods OR 50 food. Canoes can be towed behind other canoes or boats. Towed canoes will slow the movement of both craft to 1/2.
Going against current will also slow movement of any watercraft by half.
You don't know how many canoes there are, but Naira came in one, so there's that

BP on population:

Tally for future maths:

We have (not taking into account those that will stay behind):

*200 people
*300 Goods
*12,000 food units
*6 keelboats
*7 canoes

I may think of other teams we should build as well. I don't know who will be training them, unless one of us has Sailor profession?

Korya has prof:sailor.

This calculation does not take into account those that will wish to stay behind, those that cannot be moved, or the new prisoners, but:

*Keelboats Dedicated to Goods: 1
*Goods Carried: 45

*Keelboats Dedicated to Food: 2
*Food Carried: 900

*Keelboats Dedicated to People: 3
*People Carried: 150 *People in Canoes: 35 *Sailors in Food/Goods Keelboats: 15

*Total People: 200

*Days of Food Carried: 4.5

Yeah.... it's not good.

Don't forget your canoes.

I don't know how many handcarts we have.

20 handcarts.

Can we get some knowledge checks to determine how quickly we could reach the southern cliffs by Road, Forest, or Boat please?

Sure, geography would be the skill. There's also maps in the High Hall of the Valley, and depending on who made the local role:

QUESTION FOR BP: Will we have to upgrade our Laborer teams to Sailor teams, or can we train them from the 75 useless villagers? They also have a build time of 0, but these are... extreme circumstances...

Sorry, useless villagers are useless. Some will age up and become useful some day. All useless villagers can work as untrained laborers (earning 5 sp/day), or forage.

I'm also assuming villagers can't carry their 1 good or 10 food AND be on the keelboats? It's keelboats carry people OR goods/foods, correct?

Correct!

Remember there are four teams coming back to us (if I understood the deal). Farmers, Hunters, Laborers x2.

That's sixteen more bodies, but 6 bodies that can do well at gathering.

Yes. Plus another 7 regular ole folks, that can forage or work unskilled labor. 16 skilled, 7 regular, 1 PC, 1 NPC (Nat's NPC) with a particular skill set.

I'm not sure we need sailor Teams, so much as we need people with the profession. It's possible we may have such people - or people who possess the knowledge - already. We need to know that (do we need them, do we have them)

That said, I have no problem with turning some of our laborers into sailors. Good chance we'll end up sailing again, and maybe using them as fishermen.

Fishers have 1 rank of sailor each. They usually work small craft like canoes, but could in a pinch work keelboats.

There may or may not be someone who came to town in one of those boats before everything went bad, who is a keelboat captain.

GMBP has previously said it is possible to build crappy rowboats. I envisioned them more as rafts. This might let us get goods down.

Yes, rafts was what I'd envisioned too. SRD is down at the moment, so I can't mock up costs for a raft, but you've got plenty of lumber and pitch, etc (goods) to build some.

Relying on Imix - as you pointed out - is risky. We're pretty much guaranteed a wild event every day. A wild event could take out a boat (for instance).

Hmm, I'd rather not come up with one event a day. Let's say that by and large they're harmless when Imix's powers are used for food creation, with a 1 in 10 chance of a significant wild event each day.

Whatever they claim, I think once we're down we're significantly safer.

Maps, geography skill, or significant NPCs could probably answer this question.

Whatever they claim, I think once we're down we're significantly safer.

Yes, that's exactly it. Totally safe. At the bottom of that waterfall there's nothing but puppies and rainbows :)

Can I make a couple of said Geography skills? I can check the maps later as well, I would think a practiced engineer will be able to read and interpret anything in them as well.

knowledge: geography: 1d20 + 8 ⇒ (20) + 8 = 28 so Imix can know too.

Oios: are you intending that Imix be at the meeting?

That would be good. It's probably best if a PC is a leader but Oios isn't going to just usurp leadership.

Also Oios would ask a healer to look at Nat!

back now! This is my first attempt to portray a character with an accent, btw - if it doesn't work, let me know and I'll dial it back.

I'm interested in the sailor teams so that our boats actually make it where we'd like to go. Let's be honest, the ride down the canal is not going to be easy. Frozen aside (who don't seem to be interested in the water), the constant rain is going to have swollen the waterways considerably. Our engineers (were?) good with drainage so the canal may not be a problem, but i don't think taking 10 is going to cut it when we get to the actual river.

We have a lot of goods we can spend right now and we might as well make use of it. It's either that or train some other kind of teams for scavenging. I'll recalculate our numbers later, though I'm curious to see if the Lady is coming with us.

So thinking ahead- once we get past the Towering Woods, the only Frozen we will most likely see will be the ones guarding the canal bridges. Can one of you fancy knowledge types give us a heads up in how many of those we'll have to pass? I think we can deal with those using subterfuge or just good ol d6 diplomacy.