Maybe, but he did imply that you could be undead which changes types.
In any case he's got a lot of questions when he eventually gets to this.
Well, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Undead and Outsider, anyway. There's a Demon Lord who's a Vampire, for example. Zura I think is her name.
Maybe hold out and see if the Constructed trait of the Inevitables is an option for Fiendish power?
So, regarding the free Legendary Items we get. I'm assuming we're bypassing the standard rule that would prevent us from being bonded to more than one Legendary Item, but also, the power of a Legendary Item depends on the Mythic Tier of the character using it. I didn't see anything about starting with Mythic Tiers, so how should we handle that?
Going to try to make a character in this style
Dropping grappling entirely even though I had loved the concept. Its just mechanically not good. Too many actions to keep it up.
Too bad the picture is all fiery and probably half the things we'd fight will be immune. Plus fire is boring.
I'm thinking that he was talking about templates changing your type.
I'm going undead, so my type is undead, but I'm assuming that we'll keep the Fallen outsider subtype as well.
As for Legendary Items, there wasn't anything about them, so we'll have to wait.
Ya Im pretty sure your type would be something like:
Undead (Incorporal, Augmented), Outsider (Fallen, Evil, Lawful, Mcguffin)
and substituting in whatever else you might have in your specific case.
It could make some interesting interactions, the more types you have :)
Ok just getting something down here.
Orinel - Fallen of Rage
Natural rage
Righteous fury
Uncontrollable anger
(Yea I didn't want to use the same word thrice)
Storm Druid looks really good to add that natural rage part in more than a standard druid and removes pesky SNA which i didn't want.
Celestial Bloodrager Primalist will be funny since attacks are good aligned and bypass evil DR on natural attacks. He laughs at pesky DR. Unless it's epic i guess.
Looking at inquisitor for 3rd class but not set yet.
Templates are Siabrae for now. More if i find a good one. Perhaps quickling. Do we even age?
Probably staying medium sized since when i need it I'll likely wild shape. Not too sure how to build the eidolon body (except for pounce of course) or the race builder abilities.
You all greatly disappoint me. I expected better from some of the best gamers on these boards:
Legendary Item: Your item starts at a baseline of five abilities. When you gain mythic ranks (SPOILER!), it will increase. As well, it automatically upgrades to Minor Artifact and Major Artifact status as you gain Mythic Ranks, requiring no expenditures to get such upgrades.
How did you ALL miss this?!?
:((Also, this isn't meant to be serious. I know there's a ton of info. Sorry if I offended anybody))
The PFSRD is allowed. Just checked with the Benighted Regent, who is friends with our GM IRL.
Admittedly, there might be some slight confusion in that to have five ranks normally, it would have to ALREADY be a Minor Artifact.
Which reminds me...
@GM: Are the Mythic Mania books going to be acceptable sources?
Well, some of the "abilities" designate the efefcts as "2x your tier", specifically the caster level of the spellcasting you can give it.
When you have a tier of 0, that's pretty useless.
Pick them anyway and just not worry about it until we get Tiers?
I mean, if you require every ability on a legendary item in order to be effective when you're a superpowered custom-race tristalt... XD
given that there are tons of people way more interested than me, I won't be submitting a character for this despite my previous interest.
You all greatly disappoint me. I expected better from some of the best gamers on these boards:
Legendary Item: Your item starts at a baseline of five abilities. When you gain mythic ranks (SPOILER!), it will increase. As well, it automatically upgrades to Minor Artifact and Major Artifact status as you gain Mythic Ranks, requiring no expenditures to get such upgrades.
How did you ALL miss this?!?
:((Also, this isn't meant to be serious. I know there's a ton of info. Sorry if I offended anybody))
The PFSRD is allowed. Just checked with the Benighted Regent, who is friends with our GM IRL.
Yar, but one big important question needs to be answered: How are things like Magic Armor and Weapons and such handled with this?
Do we dip into that 150k of inherent abilities, get them for free, etc.?
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Plus fire is boring.
:(
Going to try to make a character in this style
Dropping grappling entirely even though I had loved the concept. Its just mechanically not good. Too many actions to keep it up.
Too bad the picture is all fiery and probably half the things we'd fight will be immune. Plus fire is boring.
Grappling is mechanically amazing, and one of the most powerful combat strategies in core. There's also a lot of ways, with eidolon and race builder, to grapple numerous enemies at the same time—but it does involve more mechanical bookkeeping than the regular grapple stuff. (I'm assuming you just want to try a different concept, but if you are interested, I'd be happy to discuss it further)
How did you ALL miss this?!?
What? I just thought it was obvious since the interest check that this game was going to get mythic eventually (probably after some crazy trials), but not immediately, so no comment there.
Yar, but one big important question needs to be answered: How are things like Magic Armor and Weapons and such handled with this? Do we dip into that 150k of inherent abilities, get them for free, etc.?
I'd assume you just get an "aura of armor" that provides a bonus to AC (but not touch) and doesn't stack with armor on top? And inherent weapons would probably just reflavor your unarmed strikes, or let you draw weapons out of the air, or something like that. Just guesses though.
This might be of use to those of us still hunting for a good name.
This might be of use to those of us still hunting for a good name.
If you read the opening post, remember the "please refrain from using real world angel and demon names". But it is a good guide if you're looking for inspiration as to what might be angelic-sounding.
Grappling is mechanically amazing, and one of the most powerful combat strategies in core. There's also a lot of ways, with eidolon and race builder, to grapple numerous enemies at the same time—but it does involve more mechanical bookkeeping than the regular grapple stuff. (I'm assuming you just want to try a different concept, but if you are interested, I'd be happy to discuss it further)
It was easy to find ways to be able to start many grapples and still have hands free to do other things, that wasn't the problem.
Well the problem I was forseeing was that at the very best I could:Grapple 2 people using greater grapple feat
Grapple 1 and single attack an adjacent enemy
or just be smart and full attack someone
I wouldn't be able to full attack either grappled target because of all the actions I burn just to maintain, so my damage doesn't seem like it'd be great in that case.
And movement would be shot, if I can even get into positions where I can grapple two.
I was looking into swallow whole, but most of the things we'll fight probably have natural attacks, and getting full attacked from inside is a bad bad idea.
So yeah, I could shut down up to 2 people, but it didn't seem great. Do you have solutions?
Monkeygod and anyone else who actually, for a fact, knows
I am still confused. People have been asking about 3pp stuff, the d20pfsrd, and the actual paizo run reference document.
So: D20PFSRD is allowed, that is what you've clarified.
Did the 3pp allowed/disallowed get clarified as a result?
Just going to copy Benighted Regent's format for addressing questions.
This recruitment is so much more complex than any other that I have seen, but it just makes me more interested in the campaign itself! The thoughtful questions here show that people know the system and I don't have to worry about forgetting some trivial detail and it flowering into a full-scale problem once the campaigns begin.
For Legendary Items, I propose that they gain additional powers as you level. For purposes of legendary weapons or armor, assume that they have the equivalent of a +6 bonus already. For other legendary items, drop a line on the thread about what you might be interested in as far as abilities. Also, my mistake in noting that they were not already Minor Artifacts. That will teach me to post after I've been to a party!
You cannot buy any more ability scores with EP or RP, unless that change is due to size increase or decrease.
You know what folks? Screw the list of powers... you may look at ANY Bestiary creature and propose powers that you want to scavenge from each! I will assign their point costs after you propose the ability to me. This way, everyone has a SUPER broad range of awesome abilities that aren't just limited to what classic evil outsiders have! The reason I am doing this is so that people can select things that fit their character more. I reserve the right, as always, to disallow abilities that do not suit the campaign.
ALL of the Path of War and Psionics materials are allowed. For that matter, all d20pfsrd material, unless I specifically ban it, is allowed. I thought I stated that earlier? I may have forgotten.
Any becoming Undead gain the (Extraplanar, Fallen, Evil) subtypes. This is because, even though you are Undead, you are still a Fallen.
Bigrig107: The Marilith's Multiweapon Mastery IS going to be available under Fiendish Powers. As for Legendary Items, Tier 5. You will go beyond tier scaling in this campaign, as far as the items go.
Battlespy: Multiple sets of arms are as relevant as you want them to be. As for the Rage/Bloodrage, they are combined in each way as far as pools and the additional DR/FH are concerned. However, this means that you cannot enter a Rage AND a Bloodrage at the same time. Is that something that makes sense? The AC cap is from any combination of natural AC purchases from EP and RP COMBINED. I am not having people run around with 63 AC at 12th level, while completely naked. You are correct on template level use.
Nidoran Duran: You may use EP to increase your size, yes.
Johnnycat93: It was not oversight. I did that so that people wouldn't try to stack SR from both.
TarkXT: Would you like to have the abilities from Robots and Clockworks scavenged for your concept? I'm sure THOSE would make you actually p!$$ LSD and rainbow unicorns both! Also, you may buy the Constructed power of the Inevitables for 10 Fiendish Power. This is due to the massive amount of immunities that it grants you, as well as the bonus HP and no loss in CON. You may also use the Limbjack template, if you want.
Wondering_Monster: The bonuses were included in their base ability scores, so no, you cannot go above 24. If you go Large, you adjust accordingly... same if you go Small.
MordredofFairy: You may use EP to improve your Winged Flight. And that is a fair assumption to make.
Rednal: Warlord is allowed. Mythic Mania is allowed for Legendary Items. It is also allowed for when the PCs gain a Mythic Rank and can start taking Mythic stuff.
Fnord72: You can use fractional BAB if you wish to. Regarding d20pfsrd, yes, although I reserve the right to disallow anything that I feel doesn't fit, especially in light of one of my bolded new rules above. You may take any number of PRCs at one time, but you cannot level dip in classes with spellcasting and level up 3 'hybrid classes' that basically allow you to multiple full-casting levels after you dipped levels.
Rynjin: You are correct and may handwaive the requirements since you already meet the prerequisite, even if you got it from another method. You may also substitute Solar Wind for Black Seraph. In the fluff, the fiends GIVE this discipline's knowledge, so it wouldn't make sense that they would have to learn it separately.
HighonHolyWater: Only in D&D 4.0 did angels of any sort even age, unless it was a weird seasonal aging/growing younger thing, which I think was only one nature-oriented celestial. So no, they do not age.
*snip*
Oh awesome, thanks for all the clarifications! I'm sure it's hard keeping up with all of the questions everyone has asked.
Okay, cool! I had wondered how you'd handle powers that didn't make the cut.
Will start looking through the various outsiders, to see what I'd want to steal.
As for the Legendary items, does that mean we get free upgrades on it?
Because I just made my Celestial Plate my first Legendary item, does it auto-upgrade to +6 effective enchantment?
And we're only Tier 5 for the purposes of our items, correct?
Battlespy: It may be, but I feel that it is going to totally be worth it once this campaign starts!
*snip*Bloop
Nice! Would this feat essentially let you grapple as many creatures as weapons you can wield?
And, if reading as written, that wouldn't even be true. You could impale an infinite number of enemies on your dagger, hahaha.Battlespy: It may be, but I feel that it is going to totally be worth it once this campaign starts!
One of the questions I had was on the list of allowed templates. People have been talking about 'advanced bestiary' templates. Can we fairly safely just pick from the d20pfsrd template list or is there a link to some allowed list?
Interested in the two-headed template
*snip*BloopNice! Would this feat essentially let you grapple as many creatures as weapons you can wield?
And, if reading as written, that wouldn't even be true. You could impale an infinite number of enemies on your dagger, hahaha.
Without checking I believe it's a free action to drop a grapple. Just keep stabbing people and dropping the grapple until you actually get to snatching someone you want.
TarkXT: Would you like to have the abilities from Robots and Clockworks scavenged for your concept? I'm sure THOSE would make you actually p!$$ LSD and rainbow unicorns both! Also, you may buy the Constructed power of the Inevitables for 10 Fiendish Power. This is due to the massive amount of immunities that it grants you, as well as the bonus HP and no loss in CON. You may also use the Limbjack template, if you want.
Would it be possible, rather than two minor artefacts, to have 5 lesser items? My basic concept is my character is telekentically controlling a small swarm of handguns, using the Bard Juggler rules. Mechanically it'll be no better than using two, of course, since it doesn't allow any extra attacks - but it'll look awesome.
And yes, sorry, I did mean the list to be an inspiration.
All right, here's the story I've got for now. XD
TL;DR Version: Humans were greedy jerks and Sariel couldn't be nice forever.
Sariel began her existence as the Angel of Blessings, a Neutral Good agent of all three celestial realms who spent her time seeking out worthy mortals in the Material Plane and granting them blessings and gifts to aid them on their way - and for quite awhile, she was happy. After all, she got to visit countless worlds, spread gifts, and generally work to make the universe a brighter and happier place.
There was one small problem with this strategy, though - she was dealing with mortals. As Sariel fluttered through the universe, she began to gain a greater understanding of what mortals did with the gifts she offered.
They were proud, for they had been chosen by the celestial realms, and grew wrathful when others did not acknowledge them. They were envious of anyone who got gifts better than their own, often feeling inadequate and greedy for more. They were slothful about training themselves, and feasted on their prizes as gluttony overtook them. Many of them were even lustful, seeing the targets of their affections as things to be conquered, rather than equals worthy of respect.
Ten times. A hundred times. A thousand time. Countlessly, this repeated on different worlds - mortals took the gifts Sariel offered and were not content. Still, she had a mission to do... and so she began to make small requests of them. It was small things at first - go help that village over there, go talk to a leader, make doubly sure that lich's phylactery was gone... and she offered more blessings in return for their help in accomplishing her goals.
To give was in her nature - blessings meant nothing if they were withheld, but she wanted to see that they were used properly. As time passed by, Sariel began to progress to larger requests, asking more and more of her followers - and they rarely refused. Why would they, when a beautiful angel was asking for their help and making them feel important?
In time, mortals began to swear themselves entirely to her - their gods were often distant, but Sariel showed up in person, her hands overflowing with treasures, tools, lore, and coin. This was when the celestial realms finally started to take notice - and they asked Sariel what she was doing. "It's simple." she said. "My task is to give them things - and I'm just prodding them onto the right path by offering more. Why should we give anything at all if we don't expect them to use our gifts properly?"
There was something a bit off with her words, but nobody had a true objection, and so Sariel continued to gather support even as she freely gave her spirit to mortals. But their sins did not disappear - and deep within, a small part of Sariel cried out in anguish. What was it all for if mortals weren't willing to do good? Why had she spent thousands of years running around to help them... and would it really be so wrong if she cared about herself a little as well?
The more Sariel gave to mortals, the more they wanted from her, and the more she began to ask of them in return. At first, weeks went by without returning to one of the celestial planes. Then it was months, then years - and before she knew it, more than two thousand years had passed since she'd seen other angels, but she'd seen tens of thousands of mortals receive her gifts. There were always more of them - more who wanted to take from her in support of their own ends, and who forgot her as soon as she was no longer any use for them.
They started summoning her, too, as her name became known on worlds. She didn't even get to choose which mortals got gifts - they simply called her up, one after the other, creating an endless chain of bargains over which she honestly didn't have that much control. Good mortals sought her and expected charity. Neutral mortals sought her and cared nothing for her goals, only the deal. Evil mortals claimed they wanted to see if the heavens truly cared.
Millions upon millions of mortals took from her and gave back nothing she truly wanted. It was said that the patience of the gods was infinite, but Sariel was not a god. She was not a demigod, either, nor even an Empyreal Lord. She was not a target of worship - she was little more than a cog in a grand machine whose workings Axis would have appreciated.
Finally, there was a pause in the summonings, and she darted out to look at one of her most-remembered deals... only to see that every gift on that world had been twisted for the personal benefit of the users. Everything she'd been given had been for nothing, and despair gripped her heart. She had tried - oh, how she had tried. In that moment, though, the crying voice in her heart told her that none of it mattered.
Not once in millions of contracts had Sariel failed the mortals. But countless throngs had failed her, and she couldn't take it any longer. She could no longer act with their best interests in mind, and Sariel's thoughts turned towards herself. If mortals were going to fail her this way, then she would no longer give so freely of herself. She returned to making bargains, whispering sweet promises with steeper prices even as her gifts began to slow from a flood to a trickle. More was demanded for less and less of her time and effort... and the Angel of Blessings became a source of Temptation.
The Celestial realms finally took notice of what was going on, but by then it was too late to stop - and when they tried anyway, they were met by a small army of fanatically loyal warriors who saw Sariel as being in the right - and anyone who stood against her was an enemy, and automatically evil. It was the true start of Sariel's fall, and she was going to fall a long, long way...
And, if reading as written, that wouldn't even be true. You could impale an infinite number of enemies on your dagger, hahaha.
Flaming Spear+this=enemy kabobs? All joking aside, I think space issues prevent this from happening, but it was still an amusing idea when I first saw it!
Battlespy: Most of the templates on d20pfsrd are legal for use in this campaign. As for the Advanced Bestiary, it is a 3PP book. It is, I believe, $15 for the full PDF, but it is SO awesome!
TarkXT: Glad I could fulfill that angelic murderbot wet dream! It is a pretty awesome concept, so I would have been remiss to not allow it.
JonGarrett: I will allow that Legendary Item modification. Still going for the 'halo' of firearms that I read in the old thread?
Rednal: What templates are you taking? I know several that would fit that concept!
One more question:
I found the template Electric Creature which is pretty cool (and actually from advanced bestiary!), but it has water vulnerability.
Does this mean that someone could just cast create water to do 2d8 * CL damage without any saves or anything? Or does it just mean that at least 1 gallon of water deals the 1d8.
Only time a cantrip can do 100+ damage without dropping a boulder on someone or something like that.
It really is a shame that the Occult stuff isn't on either srd yet. Would have loved throwing a Battle Host Occultist in the mix
I'll try and figure out a way to get the same feeling.
One of two ideas I'm looking at is one who was a patron of blacksmiths before his fall.
JonGarrett: I will allow that Legendary Item modification. Still going for the 'halo' of firearms that I read in the old thread?
Thank you. And yes, especially when not in combat.
I believe you said we could have two level five Legendary Items, so would five level two items be acceptable?
Okay, cool! I had wondered how you'd handle powers that didn't make the cut.
Will start looking through the various outsiders, to see what I'd want to steal.As for the Legendary items, does that mean we get free upgrades on it?
Because I just made my Celestial Plate my first Legendary item, does it auto-upgrade to +6 effective enchantment?And we're only Tier 5 for the purposes of our items, correct?
Not sure you saw these, GM, as we posted at the same time, so I'm putting them up again.
Battlespy:
For every gallon of water an electric creature is exposed to, it takes 1d8 damage. If it is submerged in water, the damage increases to 1d10 per round it is submerged, but also does 1d6 electricity damage to all within a radius equal to the electric creature's space.
That said, it IS Hell, so how many creatures would have or even care to utilize Create Water? I can see it being an interesting thing to deal with in some environments though.
Cuan: Occult Adventures is allowed, as I have that book.
JonGarrett:Yes, you may do so.
Bigrig107: Yes to all of those questions.
@GM: I started by taking the Fortune-Blessed and Psychic (Telepath) templates from the Advanced Bestiary - the former simply because I like the idea of Sariel being naturally good at getting what she wants, and the latter because hey, a temptress should be good at getting into people's heads. XD Adding to them, I found a "Corrupter Creature" template, which is perfect in sooooo many ways. Basically, it lets her do nice things for other people... at a price. XD Altogether, they represent +3 in CR, so Sariel is Level 12 in all classes.
I also grabbed a few possession feats - mostly from Council of Thieves' The Infernal Engine - to let her dart into bodies, hide her presence, and generally be the best cult leader ever (in fact, she's a Mesmerist with that Archetype!). Hell isn't just about tormenting others - it's about tempting them until they run into darkness of their own accord, and I'm trying to represent that as well as I can.
Yeah that's what I thought, pretty dang brutal. No way to lessen it either, so I think I'll unfortunately have to pass.
Thanks!
Rednal: You mean the Corrupter template from one of the Pathways books?
I would like the Bow of Erastil as my weapon.
Would it be possible to power its secondary ability with something other than MPP?
Also, can I add powers and abilities onto it?
I would love to be able to combine an Oathbow into it as well.
Monkeygod: You can power it by expending 10 HP, representing a portion of your soul that you put into the shot. Once everyone goes Mythic, you can use MP to do so. You may add the powers from Oathbow and other stuff, yes. You may do so with your 'innate magic item' pool of gold, since the item is one of your legendary items.
Yes, I think it was from Pathways somewhere. If it's a problem, I'd be happy to change it. ^^ It just fit too well to not try for it.
Would you permit an amulet of mighty fists to potentially be an effective +10 instead of the current +5 limit. Of course the cost would go upto 400,000g if that happens but i think it's definitely worth it for a druid.
Also, since we have 5 tiers worth of Legendary item abilities, how will we power their abilities when MP is needed? Always use the 10HP to activate?
Rednal: It fits perfectly, actually! I am allowing it, along with most other templates from the Pathways series. Cataclysm Creature and Daikaiju are disallowed for obvious reasons. 1,000 damage to everything within one mile, no save, is bonkers, as is just becoming a SUPER KAIJU!!!
HighonHoly Water: You may spend part of your GP allowance on innate magic items on enchanting your fists/natural attacks as if they are weapons. Does that sound amenable?
Monkeygod: Yes, if it requires MP. This is due to the character's, and by extension their item's, severed connection to the Heavens.
MordredofFairy: Is that your complete list?
Fnord72: I would houserule that it is reduced to a free action. While this may seem like handwaiving, there are effects which can prevent free actions, so it may be important to note.
Yeah, I'm having problems with that as well.
While I have had quite a few GMs do that, I had forgotten too ask.
I mean, it's two feats to reduce it by 20%, why do you have to use up a swift action, too?
Sorry for all the questions lol. Should we count our 13 levels as equivalent to 13 levels of Summoner for various Evolution powers? Like Resistance which scales per 5 levels of the Summoner.
Hey Herald: thanks for the awesome game idea! I'm still working on my Pasiruel, obviously :)
Anyway: I'm a little lost on the templates; when we add them, do the CR goes only in one of the three classes of the gestalt?
With the size alterations, can the attributes go under 12 / beyond 24?
With the attribute gains (level 4, 8, etc.) can they go over 24?
Can some of the items be crafted (using the crafting calculation rules), obviously subjected for approval? I'm not looking for anything crazy - just wondering if we could combine stuff, for example belt of mighty hurling with the blinkback belt (using the 1 1/2 rule for the cheapest)