The Dragon Reborn

Game Master DEWN MOU'TAIN

The Battle at Dumai Wells is a total disaster. The asha'man suffer defeat at the hands of the Shaido and Tar Valon emmisaries. The Dragon is brought to Tar Valon.

perception checks:

perception checks
ryvin [dice]1d20+4[/dice]
litheene [dice]1d20+2[/dice]

keelix [dice]1d20+15[/dice]
vala [dice]1d20+10[/dice]
alathea[dice]1d20+5[/dice]
kodokura[dice]1d20+11[/dice]
rhoekk[dice]1d20+16[/dice]
fia[dice]1d20+17[/dice]
ryland[dice]1d20+13[/dice]

map of surrounding vicinity

battle map


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Female Human
VITALS:
Speed 14; 31/31 HP; Defence 14; Armour 4
Rogue 2
SKILLS:
Communication (Barg,Pers) 3, Cunning 1, Dexterity 4, Perception 4, Strength 1

Barbarians

-Posted with Wayfinder


Female Human Wilder 11 / Armswoman 1; Init +3 (+1 Dex., +2 Duelist feat); Senses Perception +4 Defense 26 (+1 Dex., +11 Def. bonus, +4 chain shirt) hp 65/97 Fort +11; Ref +8; Will +11

Do we get the Rage class feature if we don't deny it? ;)


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

maybe....if you all survive the next 7 days...


Init +5, HP:180/180; AC:21(24), F:10,R:10, W:4:Senses:Low Light Vision, Scent, Perception: +20

Sweet!


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

alright guys, its xmas time. i wont be posting until this Saturday, but dont let that stop you from participating if youd like.
but if you are on vacation at this time, its cool.

we will start up with our normal schedule on monday January 5th.


Human (Aiel) HPs 90/142 || AC 23 || F 13 || R 12 || W 13 || Percept 18 ||
Spoiler:
Weaves Remaining: 5/6 0lvl; 5/6 1st; 5/5 2nd; 3/4 3rd; 2/4 4th; 2/2 5th; 0/1 6th

Have a Merry Christmas Rizzen, and a happy holidays to everyone else as well. :)


HP 156/156 | AC 32 (T 25, FF 28) | CMD 33 (35 vs. Disarm/37 vs. Grapple) | F +8 | R +13 | W +8 | Init +8 | Per +19 Aiel

Merry Christmas everyone!


Female Human Seanchan Wilder 2 / Initiate 3 / Aes Sedai 6

Merry Christmas!


Female Human (Borderlander) Armsman 7/Woodsman 3 Reputation: +10 Warder bond w/Litheene,HP:116(current 86)

Merry Christmas


Female Human
VITALS:
Speed 14; 31/31 HP; Defence 14; Armour 4
Rogue 2
SKILLS:
Communication (Barg,Pers) 3, Cunning 1, Dexterity 4, Perception 4, Strength 1

Merry Cristmas. I pray God blesses you on this day with friends and family

-Posted with Wayfinder


Female Human Wilder 11 / Armswoman 1; Init +3 (+1 Dex., +2 Duelist feat); Senses Perception +4 Defense 26 (+1 Dex., +11 Def. bonus, +4 chain shirt) hp 65/97 Fort +11; Ref +8; Will +11

A belated, but no less sincere wish of happi holidays to you all. ^^


Female Ebou Dari Wilder 7/(former potential) Aes Sedai 4
current stats:
hp 50/59, weaves remaining 6/6/6/4/4/2/1
Ryvin Altessar wrote:
A belated, but no less sincere wish of happi holidays to you all. ^^

Thanks! And to you as well! I hope that everyone had or is having a good winter holiday season!


Female Human
VITALS:
Speed 14; 31/31 HP; Defence 14; Armour 4
Rogue 2
SKILLS:
Communication (Barg,Pers) 3, Cunning 1, Dexterity 4, Perception 4, Strength 1

Happy happy new year to all from here oyt of South-Africa! May you have a blessed and joyful 2015!

-Posted with Wayfinder


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

i got to thinking about litheenes gateway. she made it appear vertical, but horizontal in the air above. i remembered that in the books, the gateways always appeared in the same direction. traveling it was vertical, but

if you hadnt read the final book yet shame on you:
in the last battle, they were used in the sky but were set on the floor of the tent for matt to look through.

so i think from now on, we will keep with book cannon, and that how you initially set the gateway is how it is opened in the other location.


HP 156/156 | AC 32 (T 25, FF 28) | CMD 33 (35 vs. Disarm/37 vs. Grapple) | F +8 | R +13 | W +8 | Init +8 | Per +19 Aiel

My computer has been toddlerfied, and we now know the answer to whether macbook's like chocolate milk as much as 3 year-olds do. Unfortunately, it leaves me computerless at present. As such, my posting may be sketchy until I manage to get it replaced or repaired. Sorry about that.


Female Human Seanchan Wilder 2 / Initiate 3 / Aes Sedai 6

Yeah, that makes sense. I actually originally though I am opening it vertical to vertical and looking down in diagonal. It is not clear in the books if the ability to open the horizontally is special, though it is not presented as such. For future I'll just open in horizontal in this case, you are right.


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

everyone still suffering from the long holiday break, and having a difficult time posting? i know that rhoekk has a bum pc, and ryland, ryvin, litheene, and vala have posted, but where is everyone else?


Female Human
VITALS:
Speed 14; 31/31 HP; Defence 14; Armour 4
Rogue 2
SKILLS:
Communication (Barg,Pers) 3, Cunning 1, Dexterity 4, Perception 4, Strength 1

Iz here =^^=

-Posted with Wayfinder


Male Ogier M Ogier Armsman 12|AC 33 (T 17 FF 31)|CMD 36 | HP 168/168 | F +13 R +8 W +5 |Init +2 | Perc+13 | Weave Resist 25

Also here


Human (Aiel) HPs 90/142 || AC 23 || F 13 || R 12 || W 13 || Percept 18 ||
Spoiler:
Weaves Remaining: 5/6 0lvl; 5/6 1st; 5/5 2nd; 3/4 3rd; 2/4 4th; 2/2 5th; 0/1 6th

I am here, though I haven't posted much as I am currently "flying" and besides, in no condition for a fight. Alathea is unconscious... :)


Female Ebou Dari Wilder 7/(former potential) Aes Sedai 4
current stats:
hp 50/59, weaves remaining 6/6/6/4/4/2/1

I'm doing fine. Since Alathea's unconscious, I just haven't had a reason to chime in!

That said, we just got internet filters installed at work, so I can't post from work anymore. My posting schedule may be a bit different now...


Female Human Seanchan Wilder 2 / Initiate 3 / Aes Sedai 6

Ahem, proxy :)


Male Ogier Noble 4 Wanderer 4 Armsman 1 Master Treesinger 2 - 101/101 HP | 2 Free Re-Rolls

Rizzen, this campaign still is not dotting for me. Any idea how I can get it to pick up so I can see updates more readily?


Shadow's Status

Never mind, I just figured it out!


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

awesome


Female Human (Borderlander) Armsman 7/Woodsman 3 Reputation: +10 Warder bond w/Litheene,HP:116(current 86)

Sorry all I've been a bit busy of late I will get in there later and help fight the shadowspawn!


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

well, lets see how you face off against a Fade...


Male Ogier M Ogier Armsman 12|AC 33 (T 17 FF 31)|CMD 36 | HP 168/168 | F +13 R +8 W +5 |Init +2 | Perc+13 | Weave Resist 25

On the map are the adjacent enemies the ones who fled?


Male Human (Midlander) Wolfbrother 9/Blademaster 2; Init +4; Senses: Low-Light Vision, Scent, Sense Emotion, Perception +15; AC 23 (+2 Dex., +11 Def. bonus); HP 129/129; Fort +13; Ref +8; Will +11

I also would like to know, as it will impact where my arrows go in the immediate future.


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

yes. ive updated the map.


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

time to grab the popcorn!!!


Female Human Wilder 11 / Armswoman 1; Init +3 (+1 Dex., +2 Duelist feat); Senses Perception +4 Defense 26 (+1 Dex., +11 Def. bonus, +4 chain shirt) hp 65/97 Fort +11; Ref +8; Will +11

The map seems to work... for me.


Female Human Seanchan Wilder 2 / Initiate 3 / Aes Sedai 6

I can move myself on the map.

Yeah, that came out pretty rough, but I could not see Litheene reacting in any milder way to a Suldam, especially one she knew, collaring an Aes Sedai/Accepted/Novice and calling her by her Damane name. Not with everything she's been through lately, which did not exactly make her nicer.


Male Ogier M Ogier Armsman 12|AC 33 (T 17 FF 31)|CMD 36 | HP 168/168 | F +13 R +8 W +5 |Init +2 | Perc+13 | Weave Resist 25

Oh great, back to square one lol. Don't tear me apart with the power :) or make me behead anyone else.


Female Human Seanchan Wilder 2 / Initiate 3 / Aes Sedai 6

Well, we can sort this out, but it will take some RP work on both sides. Don't worry, Litheene pretty much never hurls lethal weaves at people without being attacked, it's just that seeing an Aes Sedai about to be collared doesn't bring out the best in her lol


Female Human
VITALS:
Speed 14; 31/31 HP; Defence 14; Armour 4
Rogue 2
SKILLS:
Communication (Barg,Pers) 3, Cunning 1, Dexterity 4, Perception 4, Strength 1

Not like i can attack. If you even just glimpse at her stats, she isn't exactly a combat character. I am outnumbered. and "out-posted" by this group. That's the problem of being a new comer to a group. Not that my race and class helps. So i will try my best to atleast defuse this situation

but now bed time. 11:22pm here


Male Ogier Noble 4 Wanderer 4 Armsman 1 Master Treesinger 2 - 101/101 HP | 2 Free Re-Rolls

I moved myself, I should be near Litheene Sedai post battle with the Fade. Also, the rope that Chen used to pull himself up is the one that I dropped.


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

remember, just roleplay as you see fit, and dont hold back.

but it does bring in some interesting philosophical and moral questions...

women without training are just as big of a risk at harming themselves and others, as are male channelers. granted males go insane, but an untrained woman can pull too much and destroy herself and those near her.

without the leashes to control the women, what other method is there to train the women in seanchan? Keep in mind that the society has a grave distrust towards channelers.

how is the Three Oaths different from the A'dam. How is it the same?

If someone willingly goes to another, even though you know that person will endure pain and hardship, what right do you have to impose your views/morals/ethics upon that person?

What right does the White Tower have to virtually kidnap women and send them up to train the wilders?


Human (Aiel) HPs 90/142 || AC 23 || F 13 || R 12 || W 13 || Percept 18 ||
Spoiler:
Weaves Remaining: 5/6 0lvl; 5/6 1st; 5/5 2nd; 3/4 3rd; 2/4 4th; 2/2 5th; 0/1 6th

I can move myself on the map when on a PC.

I can view the map, but not move myself when viewing on my phone, which when I post during the day on weekdays is most likely where I will be doing so - just fyi.

Also, it seems quite clear to me that all wetlanders, whether just over the spine or over what you call an 'ocean', are touched in the head. The Aiel way is, without doubt, the only proper way to handle this channeling issue. ;)


Init +5, HP:180/180; AC:21(24), F:10,R:10, W:4:Senses:Low Light Vision, Scent, Perception: +20

Ryland has long believed that all channels are a risk because of their power. He is constantly shocked by what they can do. He is going to be torn at what just happened.


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

kudos to ryland for establishing his viewpoint. I award you one free reroll.


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM

now i wont force you to answer the questions i posted, but i think they do have bearing upon the current situation, and will help the players better able to solidify their pc thoughts as to how to approach this discussion/situation.

I will add a prize of a free reroll for answering.


Female Human Wilder 11 / Armswoman 1; Init +3 (+1 Dex., +2 Duelist feat); Senses Perception +4 Defense 26 (+1 Dex., +11 Def. bonus, +4 chain shirt) hp 65/97 Fort +11; Ref +8; Will +11

Okieday, let's go...

RIZZENMAGNUS wrote:

women without training are just as big of a risk at harming themselves and others, as are male channelers. granted males go insane, but an untrained woman can pull too much and destroy herself and those near her.

without the leashes to control the women, what other method is there to train the women in seanchan? Keep in mind that the society has a grave distrust towards channelers.

Without the leashes... There is always shielding. Even if Seanchan society distrusts channelers so strongly, the people are generally inclined to obey authority. If at least a few channelers could gain the trust of the Imperial authorities, by becoming so'jhin like the Deathwatch Guard, they could install a system of training that leans heavily on shielding apprentices so they can only channel a trickle at a time, rather like Lanfear did to Asmodean. As apprentices advance and show they are trustworthy, the knot could be loosened to allow greater use of the Power, and eventually released completely -- or the shield could be applied in full force and the apprentice severed if they proved to be untrustworthy and a danger to people around them, the way the Seandar 'Aes Sedai' were during the time of Hawkwing's son.

Quote:
how is the Three Oaths different from the A'dam. How is it the same?

The Three Oaths are sworn of one's own free will. The collar is applied without any regard for free will, character and intention.

Quote:
If someone willingly goes to another, even though you know that person will endure pain and hardship, what right do you have to impose your views/morals/ethics upon that person?

This is a tricky one. Generally, I would say the person should at least be exposed to the alternatives available. If they make an informed decision wholly of their own free will (and not due to brainwashing), then I have no moral right to impose my views/morals/ethics on them. However, if we then come into conflict, I reserve the right to fight for my survival and freedom as necessary.

Quote:
What right does the White Tower have to virtually kidnap women and send them up to train the wilders?

I don't particularly like the way the White Tower does things, myself. There should be more respect for non-channeler relatives of the potentials they find, even if those people do not have political clout that the Tower might like to make use of. I do agree they should take in everyone who wants to and can be taught.

Really, I liked Egwene's strategy for channeling women; admit everyone who wants to be taught and exchange apprentices between the main channeling groups so all may share in knowledge. But leave them the freedom to choose which path is their way. Don't force them to become something when they are more suited to a different path.
'Chains of lace' they may be, but it beats an a'dam any day.


"I will always strive to write better" , 25 years gaming, 20 yrs DM
Ryvin Altessar wrote:

Okieday, let's go...

Without the leashes... There is always shielding. Even if Seanchan society distrusts channelers so strongly, the people are generally inclined to obey authority. If at least a few channelers could gain the trust of the Imperial authorities, by becoming so'jhin like the Deathwatch Guard, they could install a system of training that leans heavily on shielding apprentices so they can only channel a trickle at a time, rather like Lanfear did to Asmodean. As apprentices advance and show they are trustworthy, the knot could be loosened to allow greater use of the Power, and eventually released completely -- or the shield could be applied in full force and the apprentice severed if they proved to be untrustworthy and a danger to people around them, the way the Seandar 'Aes Sedai' were during the time of Hawkwing's son.

To use an analogy, what you described is like training several dogs to guard 5 lbs of cooked bacon from other dogs, and then have the dogs you trained tell you that these new dogs are ok to help protect the bacon. you, who is not a dog, would never fully trust the dogs because all dogs will attempt to go after bacon.

Also, shields can be broken. The a'dam cannot, without external influence that is. The a'dam has created the perfect way to control a channeler and allow another the ability to control the channeler, and also prove to others that the channeler is now a non-threat.

Quote:


The Three Oaths are sworn of one's own free will. The collar is applied without any regard for free will, character and intention.

But isnt what happens during the Novice and apprentice stages considered to be brainwashing? they spend years learning the discipline, but then they are also taught the tenants of what the White Tower is and what it represents, and how being an Aes Sedai represents that ideal. Sure, the collar is sudden, but inst the three oaths using the Oath rod a form of wearing a collar? You limit what the aes sedai can do by making them swear on the oath rod to hold to these three ideals, and the oath rod binds them to it? while it allows them to maintain a sort of free will, its not 100%.

Quote:


This is a tricky one. Generally, I would say the person should at least be exposed to the alternatives available. If they make an informed decision wholly of their own free will (and not due to brainwashing), then I have no moral right to impose my views/morals/ethics on them. However, if we then come into conflict, I reserve the right to fight...

How do you define conflict? isnt a disagreement between two view points conflict? will you fight because you dont like what the other person is saying?


Female Human Wilder 11 / Armswoman 1; Init +3 (+1 Dex., +2 Duelist feat); Senses Perception +4 Defense 26 (+1 Dex., +11 Def. bonus, +4 chain shirt) hp 65/97 Fort +11; Ref +8; Will +11
RIZZENMAGNUS wrote:

To use an analogy, what you described is like training several dogs to guard 5 lbs of cooked bacon from other dogs, and then have the dogs you trained tell you that these new dogs are ok to help protect the bacon. you, who is not a dog, would never fully trust the dogs because all dogs will attempt to go after bacon.

Also, shields can be broken. The a'dam cannot, without external influence that is. The a'dam has created the perfect way to control a channeler and allow another the ability to control the channeler, and also prove to others that the channeler is now a non-threat.

I never said my suggestion was perfect. ^^

And yes, I know there would be trust issues at first (to say the least). It'd be a process of reaching a situation where trust - mutual, deserved trust - is a given. But note that even a dog can be taught not to touch the bacon. If they can pass this on to their pups, at least, then you get what you want.

I agree shielding isn't perfect.
The thing about the a'dam, though, is that it is built upon a giant lie; that the sul'dam is incapable of channeling. Apply the correct stimuli, the right pressures, and they can learn to channel. Once knowledge of this becomes public, the trust in the system will start to rock and even crumble. You might end up with a situation where some will not trust any channeling at all and even advocate the slaughter of sul'dam and damane alike.

Quote:
Isnt what happens during the Novice and apprentice stages considered to be brainwashing? they spend years learning the discipline, but then they are also taught the tenants of what the White Tower is and what it represents, and how being an Aes Sedai represents that ideal. Sure, the collar is sudden, but inst the three oaths using the Oath rod a form of wearing a collar? You limit what the aes sedai can...

In a way, all education in a committed unit is brainwashing. You spend time drilling the principles of your organisation into the recruit's mind so you can rely on them to act the way you need a comrade to react.

Yes, the Three Oaths are like a collar in that they limit the Aes Sedai -- but it is a collar that the channeler agrees to put on of their own free will. Although there are strong expectations of those capable of graduating and taking the shawl, and much pressure, no one is supposed to be putting a crossbow bolt to their head or force Compulsion on them.
Be it ever so 'unthinkable' to all those girls who want to one day wield great power and talk down to kings, not to mention the Aes Sedai who demand their pupils graduate and strengthen their Ajah, initiates can decide to leave the organisation and make their own way. If an initiate is strong-willed enough to refuse the shawl and demand their freedom to leave once they're safe to channel unsupervised, they could leave.

Quote:

How do you define conflict? isnt a disagreement between two view points conflict? will you fight because you dont like what the other person is saying?

In this case, I would define 'conflict' as 'an altercation whose end result could be the severe injury, mutilation, enslavement or death of either or multiple parties involved'.


Human (Aiel) HPs 90/142 || AC 23 || F 13 || R 12 || W 13 || Percept 18 ||
Spoiler:
Weaves Remaining: 5/6 0lvl; 5/6 1st; 5/5 2nd; 3/4 3rd; 2/4 4th; 2/2 5th; 0/1 6th

I will have to answer the specific questions more in depth later when I have time, but just quickly: For me the biggest difference between what the Seanchan do and the other traditions do is that the Seanchan break a woman and destroy her will. They turn a human being, not only into a slave, but essentially into a mindless psychophant. Their training ends with a result almost akin to compulsion, in that they are broken to the point that they can will nothing but that which the Seanchan Empire wants them to will. If the other traditions 'brainwash', then the Seanchan brainwash to the point where there is nothing left of the original person. They are 'trained' as one trains an animal, and they are for the most part treated as such. Valuable animals perhaps, but animals nonetheless. And that is something, when she realizes the full import of what they do, Fia would find especially abhorent... and utterly honorless. And honorless? That is the unforgivable sin for an Aiel. :)

The other traditions, Aes Sedai, Windfinders, and Wise Ones all build their initiates up. They want strong, capable capable channelers who are whole, complete human beings, as such will make their societies stronger. Do they do it perfectly? No. Do they want to mold them into a specific 'ideal' mold of what the perfect (insert tradition here) is? Of course. Do they each have ulterior motives? Sure they do - especially those Aes Sedai. They say they're about 'preserving the world against the last battle', but lets face it. They're all about politics, manipulation, and the control of nations.

In each there is an element of the taking away of the free will of a novice channerer. The Aes Sedai 'kidnap' girls. The Aiel is given no choice but to become a wise one. In fact that was a huge part of Fia's early backstory. I don't really remember what the windfinders did. Honestly, they were always my least favorite of the groups in the stories, even behind the Seanchan. But the typical end result is a strong, well rounded, well educated, powerful and influential human being - not a human robot pet who channels.


Well, i have to say one thing. Not because my character is a seanchan. but from the view of the world we play and live irl

cultures are different.
i have seen in a few books that certain woman subject themselves to the collar because they themselves believe this to be correct. when freed they plead to be leashed again. yes, to others that is wrong, and certain seanchan collar those not of their world. that is wrong too.

But the Aiel does the same. with their Year and A Day thing. they do it to wetlanders the same they do to their own kind. if they win you in combat, you will serve them that long. no watter what. that too is slavery

my 2 copper


Female Human Wilder 11 / Armswoman 1; Init +3 (+1 Dex., +2 Duelist feat); Senses Perception +4 Defense 26 (+1 Dex., +11 Def. bonus, +4 chain shirt) hp 65/97 Fort +11; Ref +8; Will +11

The difference in levels of brainwashing might be standard Compulsion, which imposes the master's will on the slave, as opposed to the kind of high-level brainwashing Graendal is guilty of; the kind that completely wipes out the victim's mind and leaves only the will of Graendal. Irreversible mindwipe.


Female Human Wilder 11 / Armswoman 1; Init +3 (+1 Dex., +2 Duelist feat); Senses Perception +4 Defense 26 (+1 Dex., +11 Def. bonus, +4 chain shirt) hp 65/97 Fort +11; Ref +8; Will +11
Seth86 wrote:

Well, i have to say one thing. Not because my character is a seanchan. but from the view of the world we play and live irl

cultures are different.
i have seen in a few books that certain woman subject themselves to the collar because they themselves believe this to be correct. when freed they plead to be leashed again. yes, to others that is wrong, and certain seanchan collar those not of their world. that is wrong too.

But the Aiel does the same. with their Year and A Day thing. they do it to wetlanders the same they do to their own kind. if they win you in combat, you will serve them that long. no watter what. that too is slavery

my 2 copper

Only the Shaido did that to wetlanders. In all other cases, it was Aiel warriors who submitted to becoming gai'shain because they had been defeated in battle, yet their lives had not been taken from them.

As for women begging to be collared again -- see all the comments on their minds and free will being broken.

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