1) The Unrest is still there. From my understanding it should go away within a couple of turns
Well, unrest can go up as well as down. With an unrest of 4, fortunately we still fail our first stability check only on a 1. But events can drive up unrest as well. If we get one of those while our Unrest is still at 4 then we could be in trouble.
GM: Did you do the upkeep phase secretly? Or do we have to do those? The first thing that happens is the stability check for the turn. With the unrest we have +21 and a DC of 22.
We also need to decide if we want to use the Royal Enforcer's ability. But we should see where we stand with the regular stability check first.
BTW was Kael's expedition our first turn "event?" Are there any kingdom score repercussions?
Also: Has turn 2 consumption been deducted from our treasury yet? I also note that we are to pay taxes of 2 BP per turn to the mother country. Is that in force on the turns where we can levy no taxes?
It occurs to me that it would be helpful if there was some notation for stepping out of "character" to do technical things like the kingdom building rolls and such.
Eragar how much is the Lyre of Building helping in the first turn and how many build points did the exploration consume? We'll need to know whats in the bank if we want to plan properly.
2) The preparation time was not waived. The Tenements were built on the first available land before everything was cleared, and people worked extra hand to finish before the end of the month
Ah, okay.
My suggestions for building will depend a lot on how much unrest we still have as of the edict phase. But getting that unrest down should be a bigger priority than expansion. Since we have two tenements upgrading them to houses makes -1 unrest for only 2 BP.
We have to leave enough money in the treasury to pay for next turn's consumption too because it will fall before we get tax income.
But if our unrest is 3:
Shrine: 8 BP
Barracks 6 BP
Upgrade Tenement to house: 2 BP
That reduces unrest by 3.
If we have enough money left I would claim the hex to the northwest and build a farm there (5 BP total), and other improvements if we can afford them. But there's not much point claiming the hex if we are not going to build anything in it, which depends on our BP situation.
As for exploration I'd like to have our explorers explore the mountain pass area to the south. But we have to leave enough BP for the explorers.
It might be helpful if you had separate "Kingdom Mechanics" posts that list the steps of the turn, with the current step in bold (a lot like how many GMs do initiative order in their games).
You can copy/paste this one:
TURN 2
Phase 1—Upkeep
* Step 1—Determine Kingdom Stability
* Step 2—Pay Consumption DONE
* Step 3—Fill Vacant Magic Item Slots N/A
* Step 4—Modify UnrestPhase 2—Edict
* Step 1—Assign Leadership
* Step 2—Claim and Abandon Hexes
* Step 4—Build Terrain Improvements
* Step 5—Create and Improve Settlements
* Step 6—Create Army Units
* Step 7—Issue EdictsPhase 3—Income
* Step 1—Make Withdrawals from the Treasury
* Step 2—Make Deposits to the Treasury
* Step 3—Sell Expensive Items for BP
* Step 4—Collect TaxesPhase 4—Event
* Determine Event
PS: I noticed there is no step 3 in the Edict Phase. That's the way it is on the PRD. I could check my actual book when I get home.
So, what's our next step?
So, what's our next step?
Well if that was the stability check I think it is I think we might have gotten a free build point back due to efficiency.
Probably doing the leadership role shuffle which would be ignored almost every time.
The next big thing we will probably decide to do or ignore is whether to claim a hex.
Well if that was the stability check I think it is I think we might have gotten a free build point back due to efficiency.
Sadly we don't get the BP because we had unrest. But the unrest of 4 is reduced to 3. Sadly you don't get more for a good roll.
I think we can get to 0 unrest now through building so I don't think I want to use the royal enforcer ability. It would reduce unrest by 1 but on a roll of 1 we would permanently lose 1 Loyalty. And since we don't really need it I don't think it is worth the risk.
Probably doing the leadership role shuffle which would be ignored almost every time.
Yeah, pretty much. In a Kingmaker campaign sometimes there would be RP reasons for a shuffle not dictated by the kingdom building rules. Though I guess if the spymaster wants to change what score he modifies it would happen in that step.
The next big thing we will probably decide to do or ignore is whether to claim a hex.
I would like to claim the hex to the northwest if we have the money to build at least a farm there.
I would like to claim the hex to the northwest if we have the money to build at least a farm there.
So...
We have 28 BP.
If we build:
Shrine: 8 BP
Barracks 6 BP
Upgrade Tenement to house: 2 BP
That's 16 BP.
...Then that takes care of our unrest and leaves us with 12 BP.
As far as money goes, Consumption was 5 but will go up to 6 this turn because of our town. If we claim a hex and build a farm it goes back down to 5. We also have an income of 1 from the mine, which comes in during the income phase, before our next consumption, so call it 4.
That leaves 8 BP so it looks like we could claim a hex and build a farm (total of 5 BP), and have 3 BP left over.
I think we get 1 BP back for Samuel's lyre of building. Is that correct? So we would have 4 BP left if we get the lyre discount.
Kurhat will be travelling with the explorers again I think, so Exploration will cost us less than normal (is it a 1 BP discount?). So for the 1d4 exploration cost we are covered.
Well if that was the stability check I think it is I think we might have gotten a free build point back due to efficiency.Sadly we don't get the BP because we had unrest. But the unrest of 4 is reduced to 3. Sadly you don't get more for a good roll.
Ah sorry used to dealing with the PCs obliterating unrest.
I like your suggestions including the expansion but as for the exploration maybe we might do better holding onto the build points and just sending out the army guys to do some exploration again?
BTW I found this spreadsheet that is in use in another game:
Not sure if it is usable for us.
...but as for the exploration maybe we might do better holding onto the build points and just sending out the army guys to do some exploration again?
I can live with that.
We could rotate the units, so the guys who have been in the wild for a month can spend the next month in town while the ones who have been in town can explore next.
Did we just use all of our BP in this go?
Between the first month of claiming the hex, preparing the city site, and building improvements, yes. We also spent a couple BP on that feast.
Is our consumption really that high right now?
I like that spreadsheet, but I'd prefer if we ask permission before using someone else's spreadsheet. I also have a Kingdom Building spreadsheet that just shows the macro view (not the individual cities) that is based more on the form of the official Kingdom Building spreadsheet I use for my face to face Kingmaker game, if you'd like.
I think it's the soldiers that are driving the consumption up so high.
Yeah, but building the barracks this turn should knock that down, right?
Normally it changes it from a month to a week... so maybe it'll quarter it because we're already on only paying it once a month.
Did we just use all of our BP in this go?
Almost, yes. It goes pretty fast and it's normal that you get down to close to a zero treasury early on. Especially with the consumption we have for starting with an army unit, and no taxes for the first two turns.
But it looks like the barracks will cover some of our consumption so we will have 6 BP left for next turn. If there is no unrest due to events and we make our stability roll we will have 7 BP.
Consumption: 5
Shrine: 8 BP
Barracks 5 (6-1 Lyre of Building) BP
Upgrade Tenement to house: 2 BP
Claim Hex: 1 BP
Build Farm: 4 BP
Exploration Group 1-2(1d4-2)BP -Leave Kurhat choose direction for adventuring party since he is with them?
Total: 26-27BP
BP from Mine +1
Treasury Left: 2-3BP
Other business send half the troops exploring, start two hexes to the South and sweep west?
Consumption: 5
Shrine: 8 BP
Barracks 5 (6-1 Lyre of Building) BP
Upgrade Tenement to house: 2 BP
Claim Hex: 1 BP
Build Farm: 4 BP
Exploration Group 1-2(1d4-2)BP -Leave Kurhat choose direction for adventuring party since he is with them?
Total: 26-27BP
BP from Mine +1
Treasury Left: 2-3BP
Overall correct, but we have already paid for consumption this turn. The next consumption (turn 3) will come before we get any taxes, but will include the bonus from having a barracks.
So it should be:
Start turn 2 Edict Phase: 28 BP
Shrine: 8 BP
Barracks 5 (6-1 Lyre of Building) BP
Upgrade Tenement to house: 2 BP
Claim Hex: 1 BP
Build Farm: 4 BP
Exploration Group 1-2(1d4-2)BP -Leave Kurhat choose direction for adventuring party since he is with them?
Spent: 21 or 22
BP from Mine +1
Treasury Left: 7 or 8 BP
Consumption (turn 3) 2 BP
Treasury Left next Edict Phase: 5 or 6 BP
(possibly +1 BP if we have no unrest and make the stability roll)
Other business send half the troops exploring, start two hexes to the South and sweep west?
Yeah I'm good with that.
BTW: We actually have enough to build a fishery in hex #2 this turn if we want. It will reduce consumption by 1 next turn so it is really like only spending 3 BP. But we will basically have at most 4 BP left next turn to work with if we do that.
I'm down for building a fishery, reduced consumption now saves build points later.
As for what hex to claim, the hill one to the north west? Being coastal makes it handy for making more fisheries later.
I'm down for building a fishery, reduced consumption now saves build points later.
As for what hex to claim, the hill one to the north west? Being coastal makes it handy for making more fisheries later.
Yeah, if we're going to build both a farm and a fishery that's the hex we have to claim.
It's also the hex that is both behind the river and the ringing mountains, so it is the most secure.
Looks good to me. We can always take one turn off from building anything to recoup our treasury. Maybe two.
I really should check if my phone posts actually take more often... or just wait till I get home to post.
Looks good so far.
Yep, it depends on the roll.
We will get 1 BP from the mine in the income phase, and consumption will be down to 1 in the next phase, so even if we pay 2 for exploration we will still have 2 BP next turn.
If another PC wants to go helping the group explore we could make certain it's only 1BP (1D4-4, minimum of 1). Samuel is both the Viceroy and using the Lyre of Building so he's definitely not going. I amn't sure if anyone else can go without causing problems from a vacant position.
If another PC wants to go helping the group explore we could make certain it's only 1BP (1D4-4, minimum of 1). Samuel is both the Viceroy and using the Lyre of Building so he's definitely not going. I amn't sure if anyone else can go without causing problems from a vacant position.
Someone with Economics maybe?
I don't know that there's anyone else we can spare, necessarily. Maybe Varden?
You don't make economy checks during events very often, and we don't need them for taxation, which is why Kurhat is going. So we could probably spare one more person.
Yes that looks correct.
And I would offer but Abalia would more than likely remain.
Well, there's a 3 in 4 chance that we will only pay 1 BP as it is so I don't mind chancing it.
Varden can go out if someone asks him nicely. Otherwise he will be acclimating his new charge to his new life.
Tax edict will still be "none" since we don't collect taxes this turn.
Don't forget... we may not have taxation yet but the mine produces 1 BP in the income phase.
Aye, it's definitely None. My vacancy makes it impossible to collect taxes and there's nothing to collect, so we'll name it none.
Who set the Promotion Edict again?
I forgot to add: your citizens build a Pier at no cost to you (+1 Economy, +1 Stability; +1 Crime, +1,000 base gold value)
Explored tiles are going up in a moment.
One of the Rulers sets the Promotion Edict.
What about taxes for turn 3?
Are we in the edict phase for turn 3 now?
Just looked at the World Map. Wow! We explored a lot!
I put letters across the top and numbers down the sides so we can now refer to things with a grid reference. So the wild animal encounter is in N3.
Are we in the edict phase for turn 3 now?Pretty much, yeah. Also, shame on you for reading a spoiler that wasn't yours! You're being demoted to Lieutenant!
?
If you meant to put things in spoilers for this post it looks like you forgot:
I forgot to add: your citizens build a Pier at no cost to you (+1 Economy, +1 Stability; +1 Crime, +1,000 base gold value)
Explored tiles are going up in a moment.
One of the Rulers sets the Promotion Edict.
What about taxes for turn 3?
I don't see any spoiler tags here. But you do ask about turn 3.
Eragar would it seem reasonable to you for Samuel to craft and sell magic items capping out each month with a cap based on some or all of the current purchase limit of our settlement(s). I'm not thinking extravagant things, cloaks of resistance +1, sleeves of many garments, apprentices cheating gloves. Low level gear that adventuring parties might like. Or maybe off the base value of the settlement as that comes up a little more in kingdom building. Just pitching ideas so that is isn't Samuel crafting and selling every day he isn't doing his government job.
Okay, just looked at the Town Diagram. I hadn't looked at it in a while. I noticed a few issues.
1. The town has water on the wrong sides. If you look at THIS POST there is stuff about where the initial town should be set up, and there never were any dissenting opinions.
The town is supposed to be on the west side of the river a little inland from the coast, in order to:
A. Provide fresh water from the river (even at high tide)
B. Give shelter to anchored ships
C. Reduce land approaches to the town
The river should therefore be on the east side of the town. Since the river goes on sort of an angle I had hoped that we would also get water along the south side as well, but if we don't I can live with that.
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2. The buildings are scattered around pretty much at random. Normally, unless an event determines the location of a building at random (like squatters), the players get to choose where the buildings get placed, even if it is a "free" building.
In light of that...
A. I would have set up the barracks at the edge of town. Partly because people don't usually like living next to a barracks, but mainly because they need to be close to the wall (when we build one) so they can get there quickly in case of an attack.
B. A lot of buildings need water access so I wouldn't have put a tenement on the water. I would probably put both of them next to one another.
C. It is reasonable to put a shrine next to the houses. As long as we leave room for it to eventually expand.
D. Where the pier goes depends on whether we have water on one side of the grid or on two. We will eventually want to upgrade it to a waterfront, which is a 2x2 size building.
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We also want to plan ahead for some things. If you just drop buildings at random you may find that you can't build what you want later without tearing some stuff down.
A. We will want to build a stockyard eventually, as a stockyard increases the production of local farms by 1. The problem is that a stockyard is smelly and certain things can't be built next to one (mainly cisterns). So it would be best if it went in the corner. Stockyards take up a 2x2 square.
B. Tanneries, Stables, and Graveyards have the same issue as stockyards (cisterns can't be placed next to them). So it is best if those buildings are next to the stockyard. The Stable is one Qazag will want to build because you can't set up cavalry units without it. But a stable also needs to be next to a house, mansion, or noble villa.
C. We will want foundries to smelt the metals coming out of our mines. They need water access but should probably be downriver of the rest of the town as I imagine they cause pollution. Eventually we will want a bunch but leaving space for two for now would be good.
Here's what I envision (assuming water along the east side only):
Y..Y...G..I..F..F
Y..Y...S..P..F..F
T..L...H..X.W.W
B..X..H..X..W.P
N..X..X..X..V.M
X..X..X..X..X.M
Current structures:
H - Housing (one is a tenement, the other is a house)
P - Pier
S - Shrine
B - Barracks
Reserved for future:
Y - Stockyard
G - Graveyard
I - Smithy (might as well be next to the Foundry)
F - Foundries
P - Expansion space to change Shrine into a Temple
T - Tannery
L - Stable
N - Expansion space to turn Barracks into a Garrison
W - Expansion space to turn Pier into a Waterfront
V - Tavern (needs to be next to the waterfront for drunken sailors!) :)
M - Mill (probably want granaries close by)
X - Unassigned
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Eventually the starting city should expand beyond a single district. At that point we can start thinking about different districts having different functions. The original district would probably end up being a "working class" district as most of the buildings there will be the lower-priced ones.
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What do you guys think?