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The Colony of Varas--A Kingdom Building Game

Game Master Eragar


251 to 300 of 446 << first < prev | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | next > last >>

Treasurer, +7 Economy

Aye, Savran's right. There's a much cheaper and better solution to cancel out unrest right there. And we can't all hide behind the big statue when goblins attack!


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty
Varden Baile Phuir wrote:
Also, for purposes, I am not going to officially push for a spymaster position. For all Varden cares, you could promote an Npc to the "official spymaster position" if your characters feel the need to create such a thing. I am working with our gracious DM to work behind the scenes and hopefully never actually be thought of as anything more than the grumpy but helpful sage and keeper of esoteric lore.

In the Kingmaker game I am running the Half Elf Arcanist Spymaster's official title is 'Minister for Bureaucratic Inconsistencies', he's more than a little odd and people just assume the rest of the PCs gave him a nonsense job to keep him away from important things and yet still be around when things need to be wizarded to oblivion.


Treasurer, +7 Economy

Wizard'd to oblivion is a pretty accurate term.


empiricism 3. magister and spymaster

I'm more than happy to be recognized as scholar in residence as it were. I will be playing my own minigame of intrigue off in the ether and trying my best not to let it interfere to much with everyone else's plans.

When you and her majesty are ready for the late night talk, just let me know.


Treasurer, +7 Economy

And now all my npcs have names and general things about them.


Male Half-Orc Cavalier 3 | GENERAL (Stability +7) & ROYAL ENFORCER (Loyalty +7)
Kurhat Grimjaw wrote:
Hills also require a turn to prepare, so we can claim one on turn 2, but can't build anything there until turn 3.

Preparation is only for a site for a town. You can build terrain improvements right away.

At +4 ECO a bank is very nice.
But with +3 ECO, +3 LOY, +1 STA +1 Fame I would have to say the mint is better.

However, it's worth mentioning that you can build a mill + smithy + tannery + library for 24 BP and you end up with +4 ECO, +1 LOY, +3 STA. And a smithy you can get a discount on if you build a foundry first.

Tsiala Savran wrote:
While building a shrine and monument would be a good idea, could we not just build a city wall for only 2 BP instead of shrine and monument for 14? Sorry if this is a bad idea, i am rather new to the kingdom building rules.

The price for a city wall is per land district border you are building it on. Since we are up against the river we will have to build 2 or 3 (not sure yet) city walls so it will be 4 or 6 BP.

It's not a bad idea since in future turns we will only be able to build 1 city improvement per turn, so building a complete wall in one turn will be impossible.

We could build the wall and the shrine and monument and build an extra tenement for another 1 BP, which could be upgraded later. Though we would have to cut back in other areas. We could do it if we skipped building the mine on turn 2.


Treasurer, +7 Economy

Then why don't we build a mill, smithy, tannery, and a library instead of a shrine and monument? We already have a cheaper and more defensive way to lower unrest as it is. Heck, we should just fill every district with those four buildings!

I'm jesting of course. Those four buildings together may be cheaper and offer relatively the same bonus, but the city has limited space. If you put those buildings in each square, you'll come out with +36 ECO +9 LOY, and +27 STA.

You put a mint in each square and make this city the richest thing on earth at +108 ECO, +108 LOY, +36 STAB, and +36 Fame. Since BP is 1/3 of ECO, the mints by themselves would bring 36 BP a turn. That's plenty enough to fund another city and make +36 BP more. Abadar be praised.

Of course, that would be really silly. Who would ever do that. One mint vs. 4 buildings though, it's worth considering.


Male Half-Orc Cavalier 3 | GENERAL (Stability +7) & ROYAL ENFORCER (Loyalty +7)
Kurhat Grimjaw wrote:
...but the city has limited space.

You can always add more districts to a settlement. I envision the capital will end up with half a dozen districts before we are through.

A city with nothing but those 6 BP buildings would be pretty powerful.

Right now we have limited funds and should concentrate on building small stuff that we can afford.

For the record, a Farm effectively builds +6 ECO because it ends up giving you +2 BP per turn to play with. A mine would be +4 ECO, or +8 with a foundry in place (or if you look at it as a combo you get +9 ECO and +1 STA for a mine/foundry combo which costs 22 BP).


Treasurer, +7 Economy

More districts for mints! But I agree. Gotta focus on small things first. I just gotta dream big because I'm short.


Male Half-Orc Cavalier 3 | GENERAL (Stability +7) & ROYAL ENFORCER (Loyalty +7)

Overcompensating! :)

A city full of mints would be pretty weird... but then we could have the annual "Who mints the best gold piece" competition. :P

There was actually a glitch in the original system (from the Kingmaker AP) where you could make a really powerful city by building nothing but graveyards.


Treasurer, +7 Economy

Everyone would sleep on piles of money. Yeah, they made a note about anyone building too many graveyards (or any one building) and I kinda wondered why. Now I know.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Ok so people seemed fairly happy with Qazag's suggestions for the first turn, the second draft is roughly

Turn 1
Special:
Feast 2 BP (+1 LOY)

Terrain Improvements:
Claim Hex 1 BP
Prepare town site 2 BP
Farm 4 BP (-2 consumption)
Fishery 4 BP (-1 consumption)
Mine 6 BP (+1 ECO, +1 BP Income)

COST: 17 BP
Consumption: 7 BP
INCOME: 0 BP (If mines produce right away we get +1 income here)
TREASURY: 36 BP

The exploration for 1d4, let us have a better grasp of opportunities and threats? No one objected to this, they were either in favour of or didn't mention it if I recall.

Eragar wanted me to send on our final draft in a PM. I know people were talking about 2nd and 3rd turns but things will come to light and be adapted so focusing on the 1st turn only regarding what is being sent for now.


Male Half-Orc Cavalier 3 | GENERAL (Stability +7) & ROYAL ENFORCER (Loyalty +7)
Samuel Kerensky wrote:
The exploration for 1d4, let us have a better grasp of opportunities and threats? No one objected to this, they were either in favour of or didn't mention it if I recall.

Yeah, that's good.

We are also allowed to send part of the army to explore and I don't think that costs any extra as we are already paying them. I recommend this for the first turn but maybe not later on.

How much exploration can get done is based on time.

The explorers start from the capital. They have to spend travel time moving to the hexes in question, and then how much time the hex takes to explore depends on the type of hex:

Cavern 3 days
Desert 2 days
Forest 2 days
Hills 1 day
Jungle 2 days
Marsh 3 days
Mountains 3 days
Plains 1 day
Water 2 days

The explorers make Knowledge (geography) checks or Survival checks to try and detect things in the hex of value, like resources and landmarks and such. They also face random encounters, but according to the rules don't get to fight them; they try to hide using Stealth and if they succeed they can continue, but if they fail we make a stability check with a penalty equal to the CR of the encounter. If we fail that, the exploration party is lost and does not return. Otherwise they return home at that point and cannot explore any more this month.

So a few things stand out in this process to me.

First, we could have the explorers explore the same hex multiple times to get more checks to find something interesting. Resources and other things like that represent bonuses that are really good, so it's worth getting to roll multiple times.

Second, even though it will take extra time we should have the explorers return to the town after exploring each hex. We lose time in travel time that way, but if they encounter something they can't handle we don't lose all the information they have.

So:

I'd like to send the troops to the hex northwest of the town and explore there since that is probably the best second hex for us to claim, since it has water access (and therefore we can build a fishery). If they successfully explore there and still have time they might be able to do the mountain hex to the southwest, and possibly even the one two hexes directly west of us. But if they run out of time they should head back.

The other expedition could start with the hill hexes to the south and southeast and work outwards from there.

Thoughts?


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Sending out some of the troops does seem like a good idea, money will be tight. On the other hand if things go wrong speaking for a mechanical view point if hired explorers die we lost money and nebulous people died. If the troops die, an actual longstanding resource has been reduced.


Male Half-Orc Cavalier 3 | GENERAL (Stability +7) & ROYAL ENFORCER (Loyalty +7)

It's not too hard to replace troops. Eventually the ones we have will be recalled anyway. I don't mind risking them this turn though as the town gets established I'd rather have them for defense.

One thing just occurred to me that we should have done before we left: take some of that money we started with and buy Samuel a lyre of building.

GM: can we order one of those?


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Worst case scenario Samuel has a high chance of being able to build one of those in a few levels.


Male Human Cleric (cardinal) 3 | Councilor

I'm back. The first turn draft looks good to me.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Another thing that I amn't sure everyone is on the same page about. The Kingdom Roles, is that sorted out IC? It's been a four month boat ride, I am sure things would have been discussed during that time. If it isn't sorted out we are still getting the mechanical benefits and Grimjaw is making choices about the treasury. Originally I was thinking it hadn't been and we'd sort it out on the boat ride but then we had arrived. Going with Grimjaw doing treasurer stuff and a chunk of time passing by I started thinking it must have been resolved off screen.


empiricism 3. magister and spymaster

I'm all for hand waving the roles. Although I'm sure miss sunshine and Mr key are going to hold her position as state sponsored religion as a point of contention for a while.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

They're prestigious members of the community but... we should have a conversation about what religions are going to be outlawed, like Rovagug, Lamashtu and Norgorbor but it wont be a binary choice.

Is Samuel the Vicecroy(/Governor/etc) of the colony or just a noteworthy noble.


Treasurer, +7 Economy

I'm currently not doing anything really, since there are no taxes. I'll join the scouting party to reduce some of its cost, if it costs more than 1.

Perhaps we should hold an official meeting to set up the council, in character. That way, I don't lose my job and turn to solo-adventuring, and everyone and their mother goes to the treasury to get money, making everyone rich and the kingdom poor.

Norgorbor! But I like Norgorbor!

Scarab Sages

To answer the couple of questions:

You can have a Lyre of Building. Samuel can add that to his character sheet, and I'll subtract the money from the treasury.

As for the formality of roles, Samuel was officially given the title of Viceroy (sorry I didn't explain that better), so he and Abalia are the official rulers. Similarly, Qazag is the ranking military officer (although I suppose the Viceroy could technically demote him or promote someone else), so he would officially take the role of General (even though that isn't his actual rank, though again the Viceroy could change that). Everyone else I assume would have been worked out among the group while on the ship.

I'm also reminded that I've been meaning to mention something else. The Kingdom Building Rules take a pretty abstract view of how much your citizens like you, and I want to expand on that a bit.
Basically, there are going to be a bunch of factions (the military, the church of Abadar, etc.) and each of those factions will have a reputation score with each player and with the kingdom as a whole (so right now the military really likes Qazag, and is kind of indifferent towards most everyone else). Your reputations will change based on your actions (so everyone is getting bonus points with a few factions based on your quick and serious response to the missing colonists)
Having a high reputation with a faction will mean that faction might help you out in a tricky situation, and a negative reputation will have a chance of increasing unrest. Similarly, if you specifically want to request a favor from a faction, you'll probably want to have the person with the highest reputation ask for it.

Of course, to make things interesting I'm not going to explicitly tell you what the factions are (though most will be what you would expect); nor will you know what your reputations with the factions are--you'll have to guess based on how different people respond to you (although your Spymaster may sometimes get information through his network).


empiricism 3. magister and spymaster

Information which he may or may not share on his own time table.


empiricism 3. magister and spymaster

I mean, what Kolat plan, I'm just a simple keeper of lore.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Thanks for clarifying.

@Qazak, Samuel probably wouldn't have said General so but if he does well on the current outing a promotion to the next rank of Lieutenant Colonel might be in order!


Male Human Cleric (cardinal) 3 | Councilor

That reminds me, I need to PM the GM about Dengorin's secret political plans.

I'm cool with assuming we sorted out IC roles on the boat. We can get things going quicker that way.


Male human Ranger/3

While roles were probably sorted out on the boat, that doesn't necessarily mean that the position is publicly filled yet - correct?

Scarab Sages

Tsiala, how are you planning on using Astral Caravan to help search? From the way I'm reading it it looks like it's basically a non-instantaneous teleportation effect--not very useful for searching or tracking--especially when it has an hour-long casting time. Am I interpreting any of that incorrectly?

I also forgot to address some stuff about exploration when I posted earlier.

Quote:
First, we could have the explorers explore the same hex multiple times to get more checks to find something interesting. Resources and other things like that represent bonuses that are really good, so it's worth getting to roll multiple times.

While you could do this, I wouldn't really recommend it. I've already chosen where special resources are at--and there aren't all that many of them. To help you worry less about permanently missing a valuable resource, I'll say that after a hex is claimed as part of the kingdom, there will be a chance each month of some of your colonists discovering any special features that your explorers didn't notice right away.

Quote:
Sending out some of the troops does seem like a good idea, money will be tight. On the other hand if things go wrong speaking for a mechanical view point if hired explorers die we lost money and nebulous people died. If the troops die, an actual longstanding resource has been reduced.

A military exploration party will also have a chance of surviving any encounter they can't hide from, so they won't always die when they can't hide.


Female Human Oracle 3 / +16 Stability

I interpreted it as more of a sort of phase partialy out of the material plane, not able to interact with it fully but able to observe it to some extent. Maybe I was interpreting it wrong, I guess its really up to you. I also interpreted it as it is used in one hour increments as you can end it early, but it still uses the full hour.


Male Half-Orc Cavalier 3 | GENERAL (Stability +7) & ROYAL ENFORCER (Loyalty +7)
Tsiala Savran wrote:
I interpreted it as more of a sort of phase partialy out of the material plane,...

If you are travelling ethereally you can see the material plane (because you coexist with it), but not if you are travelling the astral plane.

Scarab Sages

Tsiala Savran wrote:
I interpreted it as more of a sort of phase partialy out of the material plane, not able to interact with it fully but able to observe it to some extent. Maybe I was interpreting it wrong, I guess its really up to you. I also interpreted it as it is used in one hour increments as you can end it early, but it still uses the full hour.

Like Qazag said, the Ethereal plane would allow you to still see the Material, but the Astral would not, so I'm going to have to say nope on that.

And the psionic rules do clarify that the Manifesting Time is the same as Casting Time, and not Duration.

Feel free to choose a different ability for your character, since that is a fairly significant difference. Just let me know if you do.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Ok I'll forward on our plan for the first month later today.

Some rolls certainly wont be public like Spymaster or possibly Royal Enforcer. Fortunately our Spymaster is also our Magister and given plenty of reason to come to our meetings.

On the point of exploration, could we hire that group of competent adventurers to do a explore contract for the month and route out any monsters that seem manageable, paying them from the gold reserve if it's a good price? Possibly negotiating to less gold for cloaks of resistance +1 as part of the payment, Samuel can make those so they get more value from the reward but cost up less in the long run. Like sure you can get 4,000gp or you can get five Cloaks of resistance +1.

The group of adventurers can likely identify, kill or avoid most threats.

Scarab Sages

Samuel Kerensky wrote:

Ok I'll forward on our plan for the first month later today.

Some rolls certainly wont be public like Spymaster or possibly Royal Enforcer. Fortunately our Spymaster is also our Magister and given plenty of reason to come to our meetings.

On the point of exploration, could we hire that group of competent adventurers to do a explore contract for the month and route out any monsters that seem manageable, paying them from the gold reserve if it's a good price? Possibly negotiating to less gold for cloaks of resistance +1 as part of the payment, Samuel can make those so they get more value from the reward but cost up less in the long run. Like sure you can get 4,000gp or you can get five Cloaks of resistance +1.

The group of adventurers can likely identify, kill or avoid most threats.

Presumably you discussed this with them while still sailing here?

The adventurers already have their own plans, but it probably wouldn't be too difficult to convince them to map their route and inform you when they get back (they don't have any specific destination, so they probably won't mind being more thorough in each area they enter). The downside would be that they might be gone a long time, and you wouldn't get the map until they return.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Hmm less useful and it would slow down their return considerably. I'll wish them luck on their travels and look forward to hearing of their adventures on their return. If there are any minor magic items they are interested in he could potentially make something on the long boat ride, for a very reasonable discount since investing in them is mutually beneficial for the colony. The most useful thing is a cloak of resistance +1 admittedly, he can pass the checks for those on one.

On the lyre of building front Samuel isn't a perform (string) bard but he's still getting a +7 bonus so that's not too bad (skill focus perform should still apply RAW I believe but not his savant trait) and it can be used untrained. He'll pass the check for it on an 11, I'll improve it whenever we level up.


empiricism 3. magister and spymaster

write long post, press submit post, website down... NOOOOOOOOOOO!


empiricism 3. magister and spymaster

Ok, post mark two...

So, I would like to nip something in the bud. Namely, titles.

I spent two hours typing up a long post about role play and immersion before it was lost, I don't have that long this time.

Ok, short form.
Varden Master of Books
Tsiala Mistress of Flames or Mistress of the Shrine
Evin Master of Fields
Kurhat Master of Coin
Elijah Master of Law... I AM THE LAW
Dengorin Master of Keys
the Kerensky family Master/Mistress of the Realm
Qazag Master of Shields as we want our military to be seen as protecting the people and not a aggressive conquering force no matter how they actually get used.

Alternate suggestions welcome and it is up to the player what they want as title, but these are my ideas put forth.

I am not Spymaster(Edit:Officially in game title as such or officially named to such a position). Although, it may be funny if the queen keeps calling me such because I sussed out her issue and confronted her with it, irony is she doesn't know how correct she is. Not many heads of spy networks were actually called as such in reality, most every noble actually tried to maintain their own network of information and gossip.


Female Human Oracle 3 / +16 Stability

Well nevermind to what I said. I took it that way because you are not actually going into the astral plane, just sitting on the border. Sorry i have been somewhat inactive lately.


Treasurer, +7 Economy

I always ctrl+a and copy my posts in that brief period where it starts to load. And sometimes when I complete anything longer than a paragraph. Paizo has a relatively short timer on posts anyway, so it's good to copy them, always.


Male Human Cleric (cardinal) 3 | Councilor

Eh...I'm not big on those titles - they feel a little too Game of Thronesey. They're also pretty formal, and I don't see our little colony as being quite up to such formal titles yet. Also, my job really doesn't have anything to do with keys, so I don't feel like that title makes sense.

I think I would prefer the title First Minister. It's simpler and feels more approachable - especially since I'm supposed to offer advice on the needs of the populace.


empiricism 3. magister and spymaster

Stupid insanely popular series ruining a perfectly valid medieval practice.


Treasurer, +7 Economy

We playing Games of Thrones now? Because I'm a dwarf and I'm alright with this.


Male Human Cleric (cardinal) 3 | Councilor

Yeah, sorry about that. It's just the feel I get from them.

Fortunately, First Minister has a nice historical accuracy to it, although more Renaissance than Medieval. But then, having ships capable of withstanding an ocean crossing feels more Renaissance than Medieval.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Viceroy Samuel Kerensky and Viceriene Abalia Kerensky for the moment.


Male Half-Orc Cavalier 3 | GENERAL (Stability +7) & ROYAL ENFORCER (Loyalty +7)
Dengorin Kaltaneos wrote:
Eh...I'm not big on those titles - they feel a little too Game of Thronesey...

Segue about titles:

Since English is my first language I am more familiar with traditional English titles. For example, traditionally the Treasurer would actually have been called the Lord Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Some of the titles in the kingdom building system don't really have equivalents in medieval England though. For example, a "Royal Enforcer" probably would never have an official title at all, or if he did it would be a title that had little to do with what he actually does. From the description, "Councilor" sounds a lot like a modern Press Secretary, which medieval kingdoms didn't have.

Other medieval titles were euphemisms that ended up representing things other than what they intended. For example, the Lord Chamberlain was technically the administrator of the King's household, but since he was in charge of the king's appointment calendar his job included receiving foreign dignitaries, so the Chamberlain was in fact the head of the diplomatic corps. Likewise the Lord Privy Seal was the king's personal secretary, but since he had to be entrusted with the most secret of the king's correspondence, in the absence of formal intelligence agencies the post ended up being the seat of the kingdom's spymaster.

The weirdest bit though is that there are some rather important things that seem left out in the Kingdom Building system. I already mentioned admirals. The most important one though would be the Lord Chancellor or High Justiciar, who was in charge of the king's courts and the justice system. The kingdom building system has people associated with law enforcement but not with judges and prosecutors.

Anyway, medieval history is kinda my thing. But the kingdom we are building doesn't necessarily fall into the medieval era. I'm not really sure about this campaign world, but the Golarion campaign world culture has institutions that are quite modern.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Rolling for Lyre of Building for the First Month
DC 18
Perform: String Instrument": 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (12) + 7 = 19
Perform: String Instrument": 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (4) + 7 = 11
Perform: String Instrument": 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (4) + 7 = 11
Perform: String Instrument": 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (11) + 7 = 18
He passes twice out of the four times.


Queen Abalia Human Sorceress 3/ Co-Ruler (+6 to Economy)

We are looking for another person for this game. So you know, check is out and see if you like it.


Male Human Bard 3rd Level: Ruler +6 to Loyalty

Cool, as an Irishman I should look into this


Male Half-Orc Cavalier 3 | GENERAL (Stability +7) & ROYAL ENFORCER (Loyalty +7)
Samuel Kerensky wrote:

Rolling for Lyre of Building for the First Month

DC 18
Perform: String Instrument": 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (12) + 7 = 19
Perform: String Instrument": 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (4) + 7 = 11
Perform: String Instrument": 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (4) + 7 = 11
Perform: String Instrument": 1d20 + 7 ⇒ (11) + 7 = 18
He passes twice out of the four times.

For the record, the way the lyre of building. works is that the first hour of playing per week is free (no roll required). Then you can try to continue playing and each successful check allows you to play for another hour - you keep rolling until you fail and then must stop. Note though that you still need to eat and sleep and if you stop playing you are done for the week.

The Lyre also allows labor to be performed but does not create materials.

So with these rolls, your results would be:

Week 1: free + pass + fail = 2 hours
Week 2: free + fail = 1 hour
Week 3: free + pass = 2 hours and may continue rolling
Week 4: free (not rolled yet)


empiricism 3. magister and spymaster

Point of contention, abandoning your spouse and children has been illegal in almost every society including most modern ones. It is still a civil offense in pretty much every single nation that it is not outright legally punished. What is our parent countries views of these things?


Treasurer, +7 Economy

In the Dwarven lands, crime in itself is a crime!

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