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I've never had bonus feats (from different classes) not count as different sources.
they are bonus feats yes, but its a class feature that gives them. (take best of both, IE, a range gets his combat style feats, even if a fighter gets his bonus combat feats).
I can see how you would say "a bonus feat is a bonus feat" thing, but personally I would rule that sense it is different class features giving them, they don't count as from the same source. Of course, this is your game bro :3
Class Skills
Take the number of skill points gained per level from whichever class grants more skill points, and consider any skill on either class list as a class skill for the gestalt character. For example, a gestalt barbarian/bard would gain skill points per level equal to 6 + Int modifier (and have four times this amount at 1st level), arid can purchase skills from both the barbarian and bard lists as class skills.Class Features
A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. A 1st-level gestalt rogue/cleric, for example, gets sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, 1st-level cleric spells, and the ability to turn or rebuke undead. Class- and ability-based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid’s prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is.A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics. A few caveats apply, however.
Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class.
Gestalt characters with more than one spellcasting class keep track of their spells per day separately.
A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.
The closest the gestalts come to talking about 'same thing from both classes' is thing specifically called out as class features such as uncanny dodge. Uncanny dodge is level based (no more than 4 levels above you for example), so it acrues at the faster of the two, which makes sense (there's no benefit to double uncanny dodge).
However, bonus feats are specific to the class. Fighter bonus feats, Sorcerer bonus feats, etc.
The closest this would come would be a sorcerer/bloodrager gestalt, since they'd both have the same bloodline. In which case, the bonus feats would be the exact same thing (elemental blood line feat), so those would accrue at the faster (Sorcerer I believe).
However, feats between two classes would be different sources normally.
Personally, I had always assumed in Pathfinder (doesn't have gestalt rules obviously) that favored class bonus's from multiple classes would be different sources too. But obviously it's your game, no big deal. Just commenting. :)
OK I see I'm used to playing gestalt games in 3.5 so as I read it the bonus feats are from different list so they would stack as well as the hp/sp thanks for helping me to clear that up ^_^ hope to see your submissions soon. All I have in the hotel is my phone so I will take a look at character submissions on Monday morning my time
-Posted with Wayfinder
I believe they have to be different to stack... so fighter/monk at first level gets 2 bonus feats (one combat feat, one from the list available to your monk), a ranger/fighter at second level gets 2 bonus feats (one combat feat, one from his combat style), but a fighter/gunslinger at 4th level only gets 1 bonus feat (because the combat feats granted from the two separate classes overlap/don't stack).
Regarding the FCB... I don't think you can get 2 hp or 2 skill points in one level even with the combo you're describing, for the same reason- the bonus hp from the 2 classes would overlap/not stack... you should (IMO) be able to use that combo to gain +1 hp, +1 sp, and both racial FCBs, but that opens up the debate about the wording of Fast Learner (at the very least, by RAW you should get +1 hp, +1 skill point, and one of the 2 FCBs).
OK I'm thinking about it and I'll have a final decision soon but it's late I need to get some sleep
-Posted with Wayfinder
@Zagathoth - A gunslinger and Fighter don't overlap/stack bonus feats. Because a gunslinger has gunslinger feats, and a fighter has fighter feats. Yes, a gunslinger counts his levels as fighter for qualifying, but he isn't a fighter.
Here's why this would really be a bad ruling.
If I do Gunslinger 1/Fighter 1, and I know I'll overlap at level 2, I'll do Gunslinger 2/Ranger 1/Fighter 1 at level 2, so then I don't have bonus feats overlapping at the same level between the two classes. Then at 3 I go Gunslinger 3/Ranger 1/Fighter 2 and gain my fighter bonus feat at level 3, where there's no bonus feat on the Gunslinger to overlap with.
All considering bonus feats as 'same' will do is encourage odd builds with level dips.
Velden Lansell character sheet. Not your format, but I figure a full on character sheet should be easy to follow. :)
Velden's general appearance.
And that's exactly where gestalt that allows free multiclassing gets problematic... By RAW (as much as that exists for gestalt) when you take two classes with the same ability you get whichever progression is better for you... So a slayer/vivisectionist uses the vivisectionist sneak attack progression (equal to a rogue) and never gains extra sneak attack dice for its slayer levels unless it multiclasses on the alchemist side long enough that the slayer grants more dice on its own (like if you went slayer 9//vivisectionist 3/investigator 6). In the same way, a fighter/gunslinger should get no feats from his gunslinger side unless he has enough levels of it to get more than his fighter levels (like if you went gunslinger 12//fighter 2/inquisitor 10). I say 'should' there because a lot of GMs hand wave that away in the case of feats (and most non-fighter classes have a slow enough progression that it's not a big deal).
And that's exactly where gestalt that allows free multiclassing gets problematic... By RAW (as much as that exists for gestalt) when you take two classes with the same ability you get whichever progression is better for you...
And 'better for you' is the one that provides the most class abilities. So, again, calling Gunslinger bonus feats Fighter bonus feats causes strangeness.
A fighter is not a gunslinger, and vice versa.
Now, the new Hybrid classes would, I believe, be a valid example of what your'e going for. But they explicitly state they are a mixture of two base classes.
Gunslinger is not an archetype of Fighter. They originally went that route in playtesting, but they didn't in the final product. Gunslinger is not Fighter.
Now, if you were saying a Brawler and Fighter shouldn't stack bonus feats, for example, I would agree completely. Because a Brawler is a Fighter/Monk, and thus the same source of bonus feats.
Velden was born in Nex, near the boarder of the Mwangi Expanse. He grew up travelling into the Mwangi Expanse often, eventually becoming part of a Nexian Militia group. He found he was very good at both archery and had some magical talent. He was also very methodical in his planning, and the Militia began using him as a scout and sniper-archer.
It was while he was doing a single patrol of the Expanse, basically glorified messenger duty between tribes for the Nexian Militia when he stumbled across Professor Lorrimor, who was being attacked by a tiger.
Velden put 4 arrows into the tiger, dropping it at the Professor's feet. The Professor had been doing some exploration of the Expanse when he and his guide had been attacked by the tiger and it's mate. The guide had been mauled to death, and the professor ran away, chased by the tiger.
Velden's keen senses, and the pertinent info about the tigers being a mated pair, allowed him to pick up on the coming attack just in time. After the second tiger was dead, Velden escorted the Professor back to Nex territory.
Velden continued on as a militia scout for nearly a decade, until he received the letter informing him of the Professor's passing, and the request that he come to Carrion Crown. Having not seen anything before of the rest of the world, Velden agreed to go (especially since they paid for his trip!).
Velden is very calm and thoughtful. He doesn't talk much, and when he does, it's usually somewhat snide or dry humor. He tends to be somewhat irreverent, despite being a follower of Iomedae. He tries not to take himself too seriously, but he's still driven and single minded once he decides on a course of action.
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Fighter(Altered dragoon)1/ninja 1
Traits: Indomitable faith, Equipment of the Knights(rich parents) undecided
Drawback- Undecided either pride, or oppressive expectations
Str: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 10
Wis: 14
Cha: 08
Feats:
Weapon focus (spear), power attack, combat reflexes, skill focus: acrobatics
Skills-
Acrobatics-1
Climb-1
Perception-1
Swim-1
Know. Nobility-1
know. History-1
Linguistics-1
Sleight of hand-1
sense motive-1
Gear: MWK Spear (works like a lance), MWK Breastplate
Backpack, belt pouch, waterskin (3), rations 20, Sunrod (3), torch(3),
Just an FYI- Ninja levels are purely for acrobatic shenanigans and I want nothing of the eastern flavor, my backstory is already working on re-flavoring the abilities I will have from "ninja" class. I hope you let me do this. I will be taking 3-4 levels of ninja and that's it.
I think this is the first time I have seen anyone argue about bonus feats ever lol. Wow, whenever you think you have seen the epitome of anal retentiveness some one brings me to new lows.
Incredible.
But instituting a difference between 'fighter combat bonus feats' and 'gunslinger combat bonus feats' leads to strangeness like there being a difference between 'vivisectionist sneak attack' and 'rogue sneak attack'
Which is obvious nonsense. You might as well remove the rule that says you can get the same thing twice altogether.
However, since gunslinger feats use a different list from fighter feats, they should be allowed to stack for that reason.
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I have changed my concept, I liked the fluff, but the mechanics were rather sub par, especially when everyone has DR, but even without that it's still a tad underpowered for gestalt,
I kept most of the fluff and changed the mechanics to swashbuckler (inspired blade, musketeer)/ lunar oracle (dual cursed, black blooded, Psychic Searcher)
Nicholas Gaunt was born an orphan, who's mother died in childbirth, and who's father abandoned him before he was born, a cruel but all too common fate of dhampirs. When he was younger he was a very active child, and a fairly rebellious one as well, always getting into trouble, pretending to be an adventurer and accidentally breaking things (clay jars mostly :P)
He left the orphanage fairly early determined to be an adventurer so he can find his father and find out why his father abandoned him. To further these goals he picked up the art of fencing, and discovered he had been blessed with divine magics.
Once he felt confidant in his abilities he hired himself out as a swordarm for hire, taking relatively safe bodyguard and currier jobs. It was in the former capacity that he met the professor, he along with one other were hired for a job bodyguading the professor as he went to a number of ruins of religious significance. During a night of celebration after a particularly important find they took a wrong turn and were ambushed by thugs Nick moved blindingly fast with his rapier and downed several of them as the other guard flew into a blind rage and attacked those that remained,
Between the two of them they were able to easily down the petty thugs and heal the professor.
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@angelpalm- rule #1 of these forums is 'don't be a jerk' so if you'd like to join the discussion please conduct yourself like an adult.
As I said, some GMs just hand wave the whole thing away, so this may all be moot anyways...
Fighters, monks, gunslingers, brawler, warpriests, swashbucklers, magi, and wizards all have a class feature called "bonus feat" that has the same basic function--to grant them an extra feat in addition to those normally gained for leveling. By pure RAW that means any combination of these should (probably) only get the fastest progression of any of their classes; though, as with skills, they should probably get access to all the options from both classes on that progression (which could present some interesting opportunities for a fighter/wizard taking metamagic feats every other level).
By RAI, I would guess that many (or most, maybe even all?) of these are intended to be separate abilities... fighter and wizard, for example, have 0 overlap in their options so a strong argument could be made for them being separate abilities (with terribly lazy naming conventions); magi and gunslingers (as Velden pointed out) add extra options beyond what a fighter gets, so there's some argument to be made there too; monks (and even brawlers) have a more restricted list than fighters, but that's still a difference... swashbucklers and warpriests are kind of up a creek, they just get combat feats like a fighter but on a slower progression.
When I GM gestalt I tend to let players stack bonus feats as long as the classes have different options (so fighter/monk gets tons but brawler/warpriest would get very few), but I think that's RAI not RAW... ultimately, its up to our intrepid GM to decide how he wants to run it.
@ GM Bone Man: Hey just letting you I'm still writing his backstory. Life has been crazy, but i'm still contending.
I'm putting him on the map in Golarion with a bit of lore from the setting, but am highlighting it inside of the 1800's gothic flavor. Bram Stoker-ey.
Hector will fit in with the themes presented quite well.
But instituting a difference between 'fighter combat bonus feats' and 'gunslinger combat bonus feats' leads to strangeness like there being a difference between 'vivisectionist sneak attack' and 'rogue sneak attack'
Which is obvious nonsense. You might as well remove the rule that says you can get the same thing twice altogether.
However, since gunslinger feats use a different list from fighter feats, they should be allowed to stack for that reason.
Not really a valid point, as the sneak attack is a specific ability. Bonus Feat is not a specific ability, it is the ability to choose one of many feats. Trying to equate the two is a bit like saying that Rage Powers and Rogue Talents shouldn't stack, because both are basically the ability to add special abilities to the class.
Trying to conflate the two is saying that a gunslinger who takes Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot is the same as a Fighter that takes Weapon Focus and power attack. The two builds are nothing alike.
I think 'bonus feat' is a specific ability*- just a flexible one... a wizard and an eldritch knight could both pick very different wizard spells and have two builds that are nothing alike, but that doesn't mean you should be able stack the caster levels from both...
*the question is whether they're the same specific ability
But at this point we're distracting from the actual recruitment and should probably let the conversation rest (or move it to the rules thread), unless the GM asks for more input.
You wouldn't get arcane bond twice either, even though you can take
The ability to take a bonus combat feat is a class feature you can get, and it equates to the ability to take a bonus combat feat, so if you'd get it twice, you only get it once.
That's not to say that it equates to the ability to take a combat or grit feat, so a Gunslinger//Fighter would get both. Fighter//Cavalier not so much.
If a Bloodrager with that archetype that got him rage powers gestalted with barbarian, he wouldn't get rage powers twice at certain levels. That'd be in clear violation of the gestalt rules.
Would you argue that you get arcane bond twice if you gestalt wizard and sorcerer? They provide multiple choices too, you know.
Also I wrote my backstory, so that's good.
One last comment.
With regards to the spell example. The gestalt rules specifically call out sorcerer/wizard as a valid combination. The two get the same exact spells, as they are sorcerer/wizard spells. However, obviously they don't only get wizard spells, as it specifically says they get both.
Eldritch Knight is a prestige class, so it would advance spell casting of another class, not provide it's own, so no, bad example.
Closer example would be Mage/Wizard, however, mage spells are not wizard spells, even if they come from the same list, even as wizard and sorcerer does.
Magus. Fits the context of EK//Wiz.
This is a Recruitment for The Carrion Crown AP
@GM Bone Man please click on Radriel's profile to see my submission
thx-WabbitHuntr
Ok, I've finished te Crunch for Anais and I'm working on the last parts of her appearance and backstory, but I believe that my question about the Cestus weapon and being proficient in unarmed strikes was not quite answered?
Would a character that is proficient with the cestus and makes an attack with it count as if she used an unarmed strike for the purposes of Maneuvers that specifically call out unarmed strikes (as long as they don't call it out as specifically a kick or elbow or something else that does not use your fists/hands) and the Brawling light armor magic property?
Of course, if it works like this I'd have to get Cestus with a high enough Enhancement Bonus in order to penetrate the proper DR (or simply make them out of adamantine).
The scaling of unarmed damage does not concern me much due to the Close Weapon class feature that brawlers get, it is just that the Amulet of Mighty Fists is an atrocious item for all games that are not "Epic Level" in nature and I'd rather be using a pair of Cestus as my weapons if I could, especially with how we are using Armor as DR. Heck, I don't even care about the increased crit-range (though it would be a nice thing to have) as long as I can use a pair of Cestus for the purposes I outlined.
I know that this has been discussed at various places and that people have quoted Sean K. Reynolds saying that he does not believe they should work that way, but there has been no Errata to change that part about them yet so by RAW (and RAI, and reason too) I believe it should work?
I also have another question: what happens if you pick the favored class bonus as a half-elf and one pf the gestalted classes dods not have favored class bonuses? I mean, I can't find such things for the stalker, though I might've just missed it (my google-fu has weakened with lack of practice), I'm not sure.
back from Germany
ok wow did not mean to spark a debate sorry lol anyway ...
so ive been looking over the classes and this is what i have decided will go-
with the exception of the 1st character level bonus feats that are just labeled Bonus Feat if gained on the same level as 2 different gestalted classes, the character will only gain one bonus feat total i.e
a fighter level 4 and a gunslinger level 4 both get a bonus feat at the same time regardless of that fact they are coming from different list, all that is written is character gains Bonus Feat
as with gestalt rules and with most things in 3.5 to pathfinder alike bonuses do not stack armor + mage Armour don't stack
unless the bonus feat gained is written differently it will stack i.e inquisitor+ fighter at level 6 one is a regular feat the other is a teamwork feat so is not that same bonus it would stack
with all that bonus feats do stack at 1st character level i consider this the extra power that comes with gestalt
to caveat on that a character half-elf can only benefit form 1hp/sp per level but the ability ti choose two favorite classes lets one gain that hp/sp if one contuses to level one of the fav classes and gestalt with a different one
and ill start looking at questions now ^_^
Ok, I've finished te Crunch for Anais and I'm working on the last parts of her appearance and backstory, but I believe that my question about the Cestus weapon and being proficient in unarmed strikes was not quite answered?
Would a character that is proficient with the cestus and makes an attack with it count as if she used an unarmed strike for the purposes of Maneuvers that specifically call out unarmed strikes (as long as they don't call it out as specifically a kick or elbow or something else that does not use your fists/hands) and the Brawling light armor magic property?
Of course, if it works like this I'd have to get Cestus with a high enough Enhancement Bonus in order to penetrate the proper DR (or simply make them out of adamantine).
The scaling of unarmed damage does not concern me much due to the Close Weapon class feature that brawlers get, it is just that the Amulet of Mighty Fists is an atrocious item for all games that are not "Epic Level" in nature and I'd rather be using a pair of Cestus as my weapons if I could, especially with how we are using Armor as DR. Heck, I don't even care about the increased crit-range (though it would be a nice thing to have) as long as I can use a pair of Cestus for the purposes I outlined.
I know that this has been discussed at various places and that people have quoted Sean K. Reynolds saying that he does not believe they should work that way, but there has been no Errata to change that part about them yet so by RAW (and RAI, and reason too) I believe it should work?
I also have another question: what happens if you pick the favored class bonus as a half-elf and one pf the gestalted classes dods not have favored class bonuses? I mean, I can't find such things for the stalker, though I might've just missed it (my google-fu has weakened with lack of...
it took ,e so long to find what the creators said about weapons and unarmed attacks...and i never saved it...well here is what was said
is a character has two weapon fighting and improved unarmed strike and a bite attack or any other natural weapon that is not the hands since they are using them to hold the weapons, for example
tengu with alternate trait nat 2claw it dose not say that the claws are only on the hands or feet but both and a bite
takes two-weapons fighting, and improved unarmed strike he/she has 6 attacks at level 1
sword x2
claw x2
and a bite x1
and then a elbow/kick/head butt what have you for flavor but only one x1
at first level !!!!
with all the minuses that you would get for using that
i know that this is somewhere hidden on paizo forms
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the half-elf fav class option for slayer is in the half-elf race page
...i don't know why but, im having issues with my computer can all who have completed characters submitted post a link with them so i can see/audit from work thanks
I believe there has been a misunderstanding:
I did not mean it in the way to get extra attacks, I'm staying clear away from natural attack shenanigans, I meant it as such:
- The entry for the Cestus weapon states that anyone that is wielding a cestus and proficient in its use can use its effects when they make an unarmed strike.
- I have seen it on the paizo forums somewhere that SKR does not want it to work that way (he thinks that it should be a weapon in the same way a shortsword is one, not spmething you can use to make unarmed strikes).
The reason for my question is this; look at the following two Thrashing Dragon maneuvers:
Finishing Kick, which states that you can make an extra unarmed attack, a kick, at your highest BAB-2 as the final part of a full attack action.
Thrashing Dragon Twist, which states that the user can make one attack with each wielded weapon (two attacks) against all opponents within reach and giving the bonus that if you are fighting unarmed you get a third attack against each target in your reach.
My question was thus: would my character be able to make the third attack against her targets in the Thrashing Dragon Twist maneuver, using her Cestus-wielding fists to deliver all three of them?
And regardin the favore class bonuses I am making a Brawler/Stalker, combining the Paizo ACG Brawler with the Dreamscarred Press Path of War Stalker, not a Brawler/Slayer.
And since the Path of War: Extended has het to be released there are no Alternate Favored Class Bonuses for the Stalker.
The weapon part if you have two weapin fighting and improved unarmed strike, I will allow that attack chain you want to use. Since pretty much all you're doing is fighting with a old style metal boxing glove so it is technically a weapon just if quote unquote an unarmed weapon
For the fav class ...since there is no option for the half elf I'm sorry but you'll have to deal with not having my favorite class often for the class. So still only one health. Or skill. Or the favorite class option.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Ok, just so that I got it all sorted out: If I, as a Half-Elf, pick the Alternate Favored Class Bonus for Brawler I must also take it for Stalker, even though the Stalker class does not have an Alt. Favored Class Bonus for any of the Races? But if I take Fast Learner as a feat at lvl 1 I could take the Alt. Favored Class Bonus for Brawler and then take the HP and Skill point for Stalker?
ok so these are the completed/almost completed submissions I have so far, if I have missed yours pleases add to the list with a link to your character for faster viewing
Velden Lansell{is this your submissions MDT I still see a lot of things that aren't for this game}
Claude{i still a character profile for this one I can't see the web site from work thanks}
Velden Lansell character sheet. Not your format, but I figure a full on character sheet should be easy to follow. :)
Velden's general appearance.
No, this is.
Velden Lansell wrote: Velden Lansell character sheet. Not your format, but I figure a full on character sheet should be easy to follow. :) Velden's general appearance. No, this is.
That sheet is blank..?
-Posted with Wayfinder
No it's not. Wait for it to load, may take a bit. Also, may not work on a phone.
"You might want to sit down for this one, maybe grab a smoke. Nice to meet you, by the by..."
Growing up was an endless cycle of skinned knees, childish jeers, and criminal initiations. Uncle Farsworth groomed us all up over our short years in the cobblestone house to be mindless thugs, ready to spill blood for the sake of the Lindenbrook name… It was horrid. I was never cut out for any part of that life… I was too timid, and too smart. Most often at my detriment. My cousins never really understood me, and Uncle Farsworth never tried to. Looked at me as a sort of runt, they all did. And they treated me like one. So many days putting up with their words, their taunts, their threats… their kicks, their blows… their knives...
The only kind memories I have of Kaer Maga was a conversation I had with 'ol Granpa Jeb when he was drunk, and the friendship I had with one of my cousins, Lidya. She was different from the rest of them, just like me. Lidya was a reader, and we shared the same sort of curiosity that transcended the streets we lived for. As soon as we were taught how to lift things, she would always pop up out of nowhere with a new book for me. I would read them to her, I was able to pick up on languages and letters a bit quicker than she did. But she was the fast one.
Granpa Jeb told me stories of things I had never seen; a world outside of our petty gang feuds, full of mystic creatures, pleasures, treasures and wonders. Never had I thought that anything besides the life I knew existed, but I always reckoned what he said was truth; because he mentioned the trolls in his stories. We were always told to stay away from them, that they would eat us and use our bodies in their prophecies. The trolls of Kaer Maga were not good for Lindenbrook kind. But I was always a curious one, and never really trusted the kurt words of Uncle Farsworth.
One day I wandered where I shouldn'tve. ...It was a terrible day. It was the first day of my actual life. We were about to pull off a coup d'etat against the Hurgrins, our rivals, a dwarf gang known for their acts of wanton drunken destruction. My cousins' plan was, well, 'flawless', in their words, but also void of any escape routes. I forget all of the details, but we were going in there, and we were gonna get 'em good this time, 'for good' in our ringleaders' words. And if I didn't go, they said, they would burn my books. I was without options. Everything was going too good, until we got to the bottom of their basements. We were supposed to take their ancestors' bones or something, and then use them in degrading ways. It wasn't even a part of the main objective of the plan; it was just for prides' sake. When they saw us touch the bones, it was as if the Hurgrins had new bodies; they came, and they came for blood. Everyone scattered. I was being chased by three of them! I didn't even DO anything the whole damned trip! And they were after ME!
I found myself where I always wanted to be, but never should have been; the temple of the gut-diviners: the trolls. I ran into one. Oh gods, they were so terrible to see. So tall, their black eyes full of knowledge, their figures… So surreal. It took me up into its hands, and brought me inside of their hovel. It was like nothing I'd ever seen. However, at the time, I hadn't seen much at all. They set me up near an old one, the foliage on its skin would creak like bark whenever it moved. I didn't know what was happening, but it started chanting at me, staring at me with its black eyes… I'll never forget that moment. The look in those eyes which filled me with such fear, but, they didn't mean to harm. They were so alien at the time, but I think I understand them now… ...This was the first time I had ever come into contact with sorcerous powers. I don't speak of them lightly either. The fact that I'm even writing this down is dangerous and damning to my person… ...Anyways, it spoke words over me I didn't understand, and ripped from its stomach its own skin, covered in its' own guts. The guts burned into the skin words of a text I couldn't understand, which drove me crazy. I was already unsettled beyond myself; this was the most dangerous, petrifying day of my life. I'm surprised I didn't faint during any part of it looking back… Such a weird day.
They put the trollskin in my hands, and let me go. When I had left, I found Lidya had dispatched the dwarves which were chasing me. I told her everything that had happened. And as I did, I got a crazy idea. "What if… What if we left this city?" I told her. The world was so big, at least according to Granpa and the books we stole. She immediately agreed, and we began to scheme together for what seemed like ages. It was so ecstatic, so dangerous. If any of our other cousins, or Uncle Farsworth found out what we were planning, they would have slit our throats right there! It was during this season I began to feel the thrills of danger and life. They seemed to go hand in hand. On the third full moon after I had met the trolls, we made our escape from this damned city of Kaer Maga.
We waited until all were drunk in the Lindenbrook house, and late in the night we made off like the bandits we were raised to be. It was difficult, living on the road, away from civilization, and the more basic things, but we made do. It was a true adventure, like in the books we'd read. Golarion was before us, all behind us be damned! On many of the long nights spent traveling, we just gazed at the stars while I tried to decipher what the troll's riddle said. Soon, we were in Riddleport. And then I lost her.
We were caught off guard. Wholly. We never thought people existed outside of Kaer Maga that were like them. Bastards. Thieves. Cons. But we were naïve. They tricked us, and they took her, and I never saw her again. I pray to the gods that she found her way out… I can only imagine what happened to her… Life didn't get any easier for me either. After having every single thing I had stolen from me, I began to become a bit wiser. A kid shorter than me lifted my troll riddle from me one day, but I caught him. He almost got away, but I caught him, and I punched him in the face until he didn't have one left. I was done with being a runt, getting picked on, spit on, and shafted by everyone bigger than I was. It felt good for a moment, to be bigger than someone. But as soon as I saw the blood on my knuckles, I realized that this one was just like me, trying to survive. And I wept on his bloody body for what seemed like hours… I never lost my trollskin riddle after that.
Life was uneventful, but full of new sights after that night. I saw so many kinds of peoples I never imagined could exist, and saw a lot of weird things in my time in Riddleport. A lot of cruel things, but some silver linings were had as well. I had learned the joys of pipes, and had put some use to the skills that Uncle Farsworth had taught me so many moons ago. Life was, alright. But then Galviel came into town.
He was a stage magician. I had seen many in my day, and they always betwixt my brain, but Galviel… Galviel was seven steps above all the other troupers in Riddleport combined. He was a tiefling, of slim and cruel frame, with horns as sharp as his wit and guile. I had seen his show three times before I ever talked to him. He picked me out of the crowd for one of his tricks, and asked if I had a handkerchief on hand. I didn't, and he said that "It's alright, troll's skin will do just fine!" And with a flick of his hands, my own keepsake, my only real possession, my trollskin riddle was no longer in my secret pocket, but in this devil's hands. He didn't even touch me!
I wasn't ready. I was caught off guard again. I couldn't let it happen again. I couldn't lose the riddle. I hadn't solved it yet. Everything went red. I attacked the magician, on stage, in front of a whole crowd. Who was I??! In the end, Galviel was so steeled and prepared that he made it a part of his trick, and the crowd all applauded and left. But this devil man would not give me back my scroll! "I'll give back to you, for a price. Become my assistant, and not only will I give you back your riddle, but teach you what it reads." In that moment, I realized that this man was not just a stage magician, but a sorcerer of dark powers. I felt a new kind of fear; not just the kind you get when you get punched in the nose, or have your most prized possession stolen from you; but fear for the safety of the substance of my soul. However, I also felt that same old rush of danger and life creep up in my breast. I accepted. I became a student of the devil.
For several years we would travel from Riddleport to many cities, back and forth. I became intimate with many of them, and became an astute assistant for Galviel. I helped in his troupe acts, carried all of his stuff, and did all the busywork asked of me. In return, Galviel shared with me his secrets, his food, his pipeweed, and the substance of his hate. His lessons were at times crueler than Uncle Farsworth's ever could have been. The vile things that man made me do… …But he always had a point, a lesson to be taught from it. This continued for several years, until Galviel had divulged to me his deepest secret: his vendetta. He had aimed his whole life on taking for himself vengeance against his own teacher. However, his old teacher had long since died. Galviel's plan was to go into the many veils of existence and find him, and make him suffer for the slights he put upon Galviel… He had never told me what they were in specific, but his demeanor had made those details all but needed.
It was then that I became not only his assistant on the stage, but his assistant in his bitter war against the dead. I learned arts which should never be told to any soul, secrets which should not be a part of this world, but yet are. He taught me the contents of the troll's scroll. When I had finally unraveled the old tongue and deciphered the message, I wish I hadn't. "Wonder and doom will follow you, until your three-fold eclipse at the end of your days." I had heard that the troll's prophecies were never wrong. I thought getting out of Kaer Maga would rid my life of that sort of violence… How wrong I was…
The events of my life unfolding post-haste only made this damned line true. I followed Galviel until he destroyed himself. One night he completed the ritual he had aimed to complete years before he had even met me. He had found every piece he needed to do it; and he did. He exploded into a cloud of flame and smoke; all of his eldritch writings and implements along with him. So much knowledge, wasted on hatred… What a waste. I was able to save for myself one page from his spellbook, but I still can't read it. I learned a lot from Galviel, but I think the most important lesson he taught me was the importance of exaction. When he left me, we were in Riddleport again. He told me that I should go back up to Korvosa. He said that I should find the Academae, and that inside of their hidden halls I would learn more about the arts he had divulged to me. I had nothing else to do, and there was the promise of knowledge, so I followed suit.
However, I could never get in. They were too prestigious for my kind. Galviel's name was of no help, his name was met with mockery. I tried for a year and a half to do whatever I could to get in, to learn. I bled for that chance, but it never happened. I was able to, however, aid some of the student's excursions. I met a fellow named Altoriel, an elven arcanist who needed to find a lost artifact, and needed help to find it. Me, being eager and desperate for a friend and a chance to prove myself, to someone, made me jump. Also, the promise of learning a new secret tickled all of my fancies. We were off, delving into dungeons ancient and hexed, and after many endless nights of drudgery and dangers, we found what he was looking for. Altoriel was so thankful that he tried to help me get into Academae, but it still didn't work out. But it was alright, because I found out my life's calling and career. That spelunking adventure was the culmination of all of my being's desires. I felt so alive, even though more often than not we were more than half dead. I began to do this sort of business for scholars and sorcerors-in-secret, and they paid oh so well. I had made a name for myself, and had many contacts. Life was well.
Then I wound up in Ustalav. I was working for a man named Petros Lorrimor. I was to find some lost text about a figure named the Whispering Tyrant, for whatever reason. I found the text without much effort, and the job was uneventful, but when I went to go give the scroll to the professor, something dreadful happened. He was missing! He was missing and he had my money! I went and looked for him, and found him surrounded by what of course had to take place: Dwarves had surrounded him in a closed alley. Professor Lorrimor was never a strong man, but had his wits about him for certain. I was able to use a couple of tricks Galviel had taught me to slip up the dwarves, and was able to rescue the Professor from losing a pretty penny… ...And then took that penny for myself, as a hard-working man.
The Professor was always a kind man, and that night we were able to forge more than just a business contact, but rather tempered into each other a silent mutual respect, and became fast friends. He was a walking library, the man! I was even able to study under him for a season, which was ever so enlightening.
My time with him was grand, but had to end. I ran out of money and began to start working again, traveling mostly around Varisia.
Moons later I got the letter. I could never intellectually blame myself, but I did. I mean, I'm the cursed one… Doom followed me with Lidya, with Galviel, and now this innocent man… Damn the trolls..."
Ok, just so that I got it all sorted out: If I, as a Half-Elf, pick the Alternate Favored Class Bonus for Brawler I must also take it for Stalker, even though the Stalker class does not have an Alt. Favored Class Bonus for any of the Races? But if I take Fast Learner as a feat at lvl 1 I could take the Alt. Favored Class Bonus for Brawler and then take the HP and Skill point for Stalker?
sorry did not see your question there...but yes
if you were gestalted with a class that had the favorite option you would get both favorite bonuses or 1hp/sp per-level but with the feat you can get both the favorite class bonus and the +1hp/sp per-level
I'm currently in the middle of some examns (not important, but still putting some effort in there) so I haven't been/won't be around this thread much until thursday.
"You might want to sit down for this one, maybe grab a smoke. Nice to meet you, by the by..."
** spoiler omitted **...
no i love it when players put effort into post, when they add to the atmosphere and such love the story and how you wrote it like you were telling someone your story face to face
Note taken. I will definitely contribute to the gameplay if chosen.
"Hey, I am changing my current Arcanist Exploit, Potent Magic, to this one, for added versatility. I think it will be better off for me to pick this for low-level play and get Potent Magic later, when I have more DC-based spells. Thanks!"
"I also had a few questions, mostly regarding leveling. How do you feel about feat/class feature retraining? What level should we expect to be before the climaxing arcs of this Adventure Path, and how fast should we expect to be leveling? I have some class features I'd like to pick up as we level, and I don't know how far off I should actually plan for. Thanks again!"
For the most part you're going to be leveling as I see fit. you will be level 4 by the end of the first adventure path
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Of the 6 booklets, correct?
EDIT: I also don't have a preference for how you level us, I'm all for GM freedom, I just am wondering so I know how much effort to put into mechanical planning/judging how much functionality I can develop with this guy.
Sorry I don't have the completed backstory up yet- I was out of town and then when I get back things were super crazy trying to get caught up at work... I hope to have it finished today.
Of the 6 booklets, correct? EDIT: I also don't have a preference for how you level us, I'm all for GM freedom, I just am wondering so I know how much effort to put into mechanical planning/judging how much functionality I can develop with this guy.
I can't answer that this is the first time I'm running this game but I do plane to complete it so...as much as you want? I've never had or seen that kind of question before. ..so
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Sorry I don't have the completed backstory up yet- I was out of town and then when I get back things were super crazy trying to get caught up at work... I hope to have it finished today.
I'm still two more days intill the 6th give or take a few hours depending on your time zone lol
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Were you able to read the character sheet?
:(
Kids school was cancelled today... Might be tomorrow before I can get anything up...
Were you able to read the character sheet?
No everytime I open it up even from my home computer it comes up blank. if you can put it into a profile so I can actually take a look at it that'd be great
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