The Accidental Rebels - Council of Thieves (Inactive)
Game Master GM Idyll

Welcome, everyone. I'm excited to be running this AP. I've read, but never had the chance to play it. Here's hoping we can start with some good momentum and keep all of our players.

So...let's get started!

First, make any necessary tweaks to your characters using the criteria below. Please note - there's a special condition in there for an extra skill.

How We'll Play
I like to have fun and err on the side of fun over rules. This is usually in your favor, so if you show creativity, we may be able to avoid a dreaded dice roll (the dice roller on this board often hates my players).

I will roll initiative and use your passive perception for you when necessary. This speeds up the game considerably (so please include your initiative and perception scores high on your character sheet). If you wish to make an active perception check, please state so and roll the dice. If I don't want to use your roll (or if it's stupidly low) I will simply reject it.

When doing a skill check, go ahead and state what skill you're using and roll the dice. Again, I might reject your roll if it is unnecessary, but it speeds thing up if I don't have to ask for it.

Let me know if you have any questions and when your character sheet is ready for review. I'm looking forward to getting started!

EDIT: One more thing. This week will be pretty crazy for those of us in America. So let's get characters updated and approved and then see when we should start the game. My posting may grow erratic next week - it's still a little too early to tell.

So if we do...

Ogrim-Ranged cleric
Darius-Staff Magus
Minwae-Scout Rogue
Vigan-Illusionist

...will that work? Will staff magus be ok as our front-liner, im not really familiar with magus class.

Darius will be able to damage, but he won't be able to take much. Not that the monk would have either. So you'll be a slightly squishy party.

I think we should try it. Just know that you shouldn't pick fights with people/things that are bigger than you for a while.

I can revamp for tankage vs ranged, it doesn't really matter to me. I can always dip a level of fighter at 2nd or 3rd level to grab an extra feat and the heavy armour proficiency as well.

So do you guys want some pew pew or a steel clad fist of justice?

Ogrim- Id vote steel clad, but I know ranged clerics are pretty awesome and fun too.

Ok, here's the revised Vigan with altered class. Backstory is similar but a little different to reflect new class and location. Also changed alignment.

I think this will be a more fun character for me with options both in and out of combat. Bluff gives us another dialogue option. I've played a bunch of wizards over the years but never a hardcore illusionist like this. I want to try and be as creative as possible with it.

Let me know what you guys think, I'm totally amped about playing this guy now.

If people are ok with it, the GM of course with final ruling, I'd be happy to change up Darius's class/build, make him a more straightforward frontliner. I enjoy the magus build but it wouldn't hurt to have someone who could truly dish it out. When I originally put him forward, he was designed as a bit of a mix cause we had enough other players that he didn't need to "specialize" but I think it might be better if I changed him out a bit.

Idyll, are you ok with this? Would the group approve or would you prefer a magus build?

@Vigan - I think it looks really good and should be an interesting build. I've never played with an illusionist before either. And it aligns really nicely with your background. Should be fun. Good work! One thing I noticed - you should have about 37GP left over. Not 2. Unless I missed something.

@Darius - I'm good with your changing things up. What do you have in mind?

Hrm, I was using max starting gold for wizard = 120gp, is that not the case?

No - you're right. I must have had the wrong starting gold amount in Hero Lab. But now it looks as if you've spent 1 gold too many.

Also, the reason for the craft/profession skill is to give your character something to do when not adventuring. So, just a heads up that your craft will be your livelihood. So you might have to sell some paintings or take some commissions.

Well, here's how I got that figure:

2+5+5+1+50+50+5 = 3+15+100 = 118 spent,

120-118 = 2 remaining.

Sounds good with the livelihood idea, the refusing to sell was just for flavor.

Doh. I counted your spell book.

@Darius: Play something that you'll enjoy. Depending on what you are, I'll either go ranged or melee.

I am not expecting to change Min much. But if you have recommendations I would be pleased to hear them. For my profession, could it be sleight of hand? (if you know what I mean... )

I have been playing this game for years in its many iterations and have some strong opinions, that I will try to softly share.

First, Ogrim, especially as a dwarf we will be better served to have you armored up and tank like. It takes much fewer feats to be good at it, and it will keep you up in the front lines where we will need you to heal. I have a cleric tank in PFS that had the feat Friendly Switch. I could tell you stories about his buffed AC and saving front liners routinely by pulling the away long enough to heal up.

Second, I love a good illusionist, and color spray is the best first level spell in the game. My problems with that college is that illusions are too open to DM interpretation (this is mitigated greatly in a non live game where we will only have 1 DM - at least we will learn how he handles them) and it requires very clever thought to pull off good illusions. Sometimes I can manage it, other times I am less creative.

And third, Magi are fun, and can deal a huge amount of damage at later levels in a single round but they are just not that great offensively until later in the game. Their BAB is sub-par compared to fighters, and when they two weapon fight it is even worse. So that is sort of a trap. And having to roll concentration almost every attack will bit them repeatedly; another trap. I have seen it. Still, play the character you want, but be wary of these traps.

it requires very clever thought to pull off good illusions.

Good points, and that's the real draw for me...I like challenges that have the possibility of fun/awesomeness. I also get tired of doing this all the time.

I'd like to see you do that just once. :)

For the record I'm a pretty lenient DM so if you do show some good, non-game breaking creativity, I'll,probably allow it.

As for sleight of hand, I'll allow it, but there will be a check to determine if you're detected or caught. Which would be inconvenient for your peers. So, I'd recommend - but not demand - taking something else.

That makes good sense. They likely do not want to be bailing me out all the time. :)

I went with profession sailor. Always good for someone in the party to know how to handle a boat.

I'm looking into options for the switch, I'll let you guys know what I come up with.

@Minwae Ya, clerics make better melee guys in general. The idea to switch to ranged had more to do with the fact what we were working with 4 melee and logistically I could see us running into issues with fights in corridors or small rooms.

With Vigan being a wizard now, it's probably less of an issue now, so I'll probably stay melee, though if Darius ends up being a barbarian or something else with poor AC, I'll probably switch to a shield build and switch my Deity to something else.

I understand your thinking. Minwae will be picking up a composite strength bow when he can afford it, giving him a range ability too. He will likely pick up Deadly Aim eventually to stack with range sneak attack.

What about profession or crafting skills?

The title, I can see a drunk guy surrounded by lawmen, blubbering something along the lines of... "so there we were, minding our own business as travelling roadside performers, and before you knew it, as quick as that *clicks* we were rebels! It was entirely by accident I tell ye."

3.5Loyalist - I can definitely see that. And that's how the story was going to go - but with Hellknights instead of police. Thanks a lot for ruining it. ;)

Minwae - the character looks pretty good, but you have about 100 GP to spend. You get max gold this go around.

Also - and this goes for everyone - be sure to put where you're staying currently and how much it costs per month to live there (see the article here for information, if needed). You don't need to figure that cost into your wealth, but it will come into play eventually.

Is it fair to assume that lower priced housing means least secure?

What are some other general consequences of our choice, besides whats there?

3.5Loyalist - I can definitely see that. And that's how the story was going to go - but with Hellknights instead of police. Thanks a lot for ruining it. ;)

Minwae - the character looks pretty good, but you have about 100 GP to spend. You get max gold this go around.

Nice. Thanks for the reminder. He will upgrade his thieves tools to masterwork for sure.

Also - and this goes for everyone - be sure to put where you're staying currently and how much it costs per month to live there (see the article here for information, if needed). You don't need to figure that cost into your wealth, but it will come into play eventually.

As a sailor who knows the area and some who is willing to help himself now and again to easy income I think Min can afford an average lifestyle. He would have an apartment down by the docks, maybe across from his favorite inn. Lower middle class area, if there is such a thing.

Should we go download the Council of Thieves players guide and read it?

Decided to stick with melee, warhammer and shield, like a good dwarf should. Switched my deity to Desna, because travel and liberation domains are amazing (also fits thematically).

Just need to finishs with gear and should be good to go.

Decided to go with Profession(herbalist) for my bonus skill.

As a sailor who knows the area and some who is willing to help himself now and again to easy income I think Min can afford an average lifestyle. He would have an apartment down by the docks, maybe across from his favorite inn. Lower middle class area, if there is such a thing.

Should we go download the Council of Thieves players guide and read it?

That sounds good. I'll include that in your character intro. You could download the guide if you want, but it's honestly not that helpful in describing the city proper.

I'm tempted to go destitute and live in some abandoned building somewhere. He wouldn't really be destitute since he would have all those expensive scroll materials, spellbook, painting equipment and so forth. But it would be like he chooses to not spend one copper on anything other than his personal research goals. Starving wizard.

Poor is unattractive because of the communal requirement.

Average makes sense for the same reasons as destitute but is just a little less hardcore. Starving wizard in a studio apartment.

Would it be annoying to go destitute? It just seems dark and flavorful. I don't want to have like, rat and dog encounters every night though, lol.

I'd say average would make sense. It's not an extravagant amount, but it includes all of your living expenses - not just your rent. So it would include overdue library fees, Tacos and the Golarion equivalent of 5-hour Energy for those late-night study sessions.

I think we can keep the flavor of having a nasty, rundown apartment, though.

As for your earlier question, there's not really a gameplay difference in the choices (as far as I know). But now that you mention it, we could certainly create of our own, or if they exist out there, incorporate some.

Ok Ogrim's crunch is done and ready to go. Changed his profession to engineer.

I've been a little lazy about the background, but for now, let's say he's a wanderer by nature, spending a few years here or decade there, using his dwarven stone-working knowhow to earn his keep, until he gets an itch to move on. As such, he's only been in the city for a few years working from contract to contract to pay the bills. He works just enough to maintain his accomodations (average cost of living) and spends the rest of his time exploring the city.

During his time in Westcrown he's picked up on a number of hints that the fabled Council of Thieves, said to have been purged from the city ages ago, might have somehow survived or reformed. That's the kind of local mystery that would have peaked Ogrim's interest even if some of the darker rumours surrounding Westcrown's underworld didn't contradict some of Desna's most sacred edicts. So, to sait his own curiosity and to up hold the tenets of his faith, Ogrim's been poking about trying to sus out the truth of the rumours.

Everything looks good, Ogrim. Are you also taking the average cost of living?

Ya we'll go with average cost of living.

Character and background is updated. Wanted a long bow with the extra funds but went with Masterwork Thieves tools. Moved a couple skill points around too. I figure if I am a sailor I better know how to swim. :)

Ready to roll here. Oh, one minor question - do we keep the loot we already had found? I am guessing no, but thought I would ask.

Minwae - looks pretty close. Two things:
1: Looks like you've spent two too many skill points.
2: I'm having some encumbrance issues, though. It looks like you're at medium encumbrance when I roll you up in Hero Lab. Now, you're going to have a home where you can store some gear, but I'm not sure why I'm showing Med encumbrance when you're not. Do you know why that might be?

And sorry, but no to the loot. We're starting fresh.

Will look at it tonight. Maybe a transposition issue from Heroforge to the modified sheet. Ah I see one issue. I did not turn off the extra hit point. Health is going down to 9 and getting an extra skill point. That looks right to me. Will take longer to add up weights. I did buy a morning star and a few other things. Hmm.

Ok. I have added up all Minwae's gear. With his new items he is 15 lbs into medium encumbrance. But his Dungeoneering Kit alone weighs 25 lbs, and the Pathfinder Kit is another 22. He will leave food and water behind while in the city and also not carry around his bedroll, clay mug etc. Of the 47 lbs in the combined kits it should be easy to shed 15 to 20.

How is everyone else coming along?

I'm all set. I'm doing the typical American thing of baseball game on the 4th, then I have a final on the 5th. I'll still be able to post if you want to start, just saying, no sweat if taking time with stuff.

Minwae looks pretty rad at the moment, id say.

Hey Idyll and everyone, sorry bout the delay. Busy recently but also since I haven't posted in the game thread for this new game, it doesn't show up under my list and I lost track of it. Sorry.

Darius has been updated, he's now a Fighter (Unbreakable). This guy is as tank as you're gonna get. :-) Few things left to finish up but he's pretty much ready to go.

Minwae, looks like you've still spent one too many skill points.

Darius, no worries at all. Glad you're still playing. I know you're still finishing things up, but it looks like you can add one more normal skill and don't forget your bonus craft/profession skill.

Found it and fixed it. Sorry for the error. New to Heroforge - more to this program than a first glance shows. Looks like I added in an extra skill point per level as and adjustment and then still spent an extra for the extra profession skill. I'll have to do without Escape Artist for a level. Never enough skill points.

Idyll, I should only have the 1 bonus Craft/Prof skill as I count it. I get 2+Int for Fighter which is 3 which I've spent. Then I get the 1 bonus which I still need to assign.

Also, regarding the free craft/prof skill, do you have any recommendations? Will this see mechanical play in the game and I should pick something appropriate? Or is this more for flavor? I just don't want to pick something really weird or esoteric that doesn't fit with the game.

So the background needs to be reworked but mechanically Darius is all set. I've finished skill selection and picked my two traits.

Idyll, let me know if anything needs to be changed.

Darius, looks like you get one more skill point - you only spent 4, but you get 5 with your profession bonus. And I like your profession choice. It should fit in nicely with the campaign. Finish up your background and we'll get started!

Background is all set, if that's what you were waiting on. I'm good to go.

The first gameplay thread is up - let's get started!

The Adventure Begins

Sweet intro. :)

Thanks, Vigan!

Sorry for the lack of posts yesterday. Today should be better.

Hey everyone. Again, I apologize for the slow posting. Work has gotten crazy. But that's a good thing, as I own the place where I work. It does, however, cut into posting time.

Bear with me, please!

We seem to be stuck. Still crazy at work? What type of business?