Dungeon Monkey |
The city rests uneasily in the humid tropical night. The heavy air seems to hum with expectation. The singing of the myriad jungle insects blends with the shouts and laughter coming from the brothels harborside in the Driftwood District. The night fog blurs everything into a grey shadow of itself. It is a night for adventure.
OK. We are starting our discussions here. Any building issues, ideas or just to post an absence, this is the place to put them.
Couple of rules for this PbP:
1. Consistent posting: I have a hectic life, but I will attempt to do at least a small daily update. If I will be offline for more than a day or two I usually will post the absence here. If y'all could do the same, I would appreciate it.
2. The fun's the thing: I am here to tell y'all an exciting story. I will attempt to make it fun for everyone. Everyone should try to make it interesting for everyone else.
3. Rule 0 is king: The DM is the Final Authority. Nuff said. However, as a beneficent deity I do listen to my petitioners and even agree to change my edicts if they make a good enough case. I am well aware of my limitations re: the rules, one of the reasons I am PbPing is to learn them better. Lets give the Beta rules a good test drive.
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
I should have Joleesa finished up soon.
I'll post her Possessions here for you Pat (spoilerized), before I add them to her Profile so you can sign off on anything.
Traits:
Let me know if these are OK Pat.
Deft Dodger: [Basic; Combat] Growing up in a house with an abusive father made Joleesa adept at avoiding the back of his hand.
+1 Trait Bonus on Reflex Saves
(p.11 Second Darkness Player's Guide)
Rich Parents: [Basic; Social] Joleesa's Father was a successful Merchant who was granted status as a Minor Noble.
Starting Cash is 900gp.
(p.14 Second Darkness Player's Guide)
Hopefully this means I can start with 3,900gp as starting cash instead of 3,000gp? Let me know if you won't allow this and I'll swap it out for something else.
Dungeon Monkey |
Looks good Flash, go with the traits you have. I like the tie in to the nobility. Opal gentry are very important, and they operate as half plantation owner-half frontiersfolk. A noble person in Opaline society is expected to be deadly in fighting, yet refined in manners. Duels are common, and the Opaline natives are very outspoken, bombastic and emotional (think Italian culture for cues). Family and personal honor are paramount.
I am posting a wiki link to the two main gods in Mazatil for your perusal:
Obviously the two are slightly different ingame. Xipe Totec is lord of the Undead in this game as well. His worship is publically banned in any Zapatec city, but does go on underground.
Quetzalcoatl has an order of clerics/paladins called the Order of the Feathered Serpent. Their focus is on eliminating undead and warding civilization from the hordes of rogue undead that still haunt the Mazatilian jungles. I don't have a lot of crunch made for them, but if anyone has suggestions or wants to be a part of the order, post up.
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Thanks.
Two queries from the other Thread just so I'm clear:
* We aren't using one of the Starting Hit Point Options from the Side Bar on p.14 of the Beta Rulebook?
* No more than 1,000gp spent on a singular Object is actually quite limiting after reading the Magic Items section.
+1 Armour has a Base Cost of 1,000gp + the Armour Cost and +1 Weapons have a Base Cost of 2,000gp + Weapon Cost. This mean no Magical Weapons or Armour. By 3rd Level I would have thought there would at least be one or two +1 Items in the Party. Best you can really do with 1,000gp is Bracers of Armour +1 or Cloak of Resistance +1. Everything else is either 1st Level Wands or Potions/one shot Items like Feather Tokens. Just clarifying if this is correct. (I'm not worried ether way and not trying to be argumentative, I just want to be sure that's your intent and so I can be clear when purchasing items).
* Also, regarding the Gods and their followers:
There is another article from Dragon Magazine which lists the stats for Eagle and Jaguar Knights (from the Maztica Setting) as PrCs. I will also look that one up for you tomorrow along with the articles about the Gods themselves. It might be useful in fleshing out the followers of each God.
Dungeon Monkey |
For starting HP, the first three levels standard. Thus you have the first three levels max hp with con bonuses.
As for the 1,000 GP maximum, it is to actually keep the buying of arms and armor to a minimum. I'd like to keep starting gear at the wand/potion/disposable item level for now, and you can earn some weapons and armor farther into the game. I promise there will be many opportunities!
Also, the creation of potions is much cheaper in Opal. The Sliss'pok lizardfolk are masters at using jungle plants to craft magical potions. All potion prices are 75% list.
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Thanks for that. I'll get onto purchasing items.
One question regarding an Item I am looking into Purchasing:
Do you have the Module J1 Entombed with the Pharaohs? in it there is an Item called a Wand Rifle. I am looking at using UMD and the Wand Rifle as Joleesa's Ranged Weapon of choice. Can I get your thoughts on the matter? (For ease I'll put the Stats here)
Wand Rifle
This wooden-barreled device can be loaded with up to two separate wands, enabling its wielder to cycle between them as a free action as desired. The rifle’s slender barrel provides a +1 circumstance bonus on ranged touch attacks with discharged rays. Wand rifles are frequently outfitted with serrated bayonets, which share the statistics of short swords. Using a wand rifle properly (either with a ray or with its bayonet) requires the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. For the purpose of adding magical enhancements, the wand rifle’s bayonet is always considered masterwork. The wand rifle itself is not truly a weapon and cannot be enhanced as one.
A wand rifle costs 400 gp and weighs 3 pounds.
Dungeon Monkey |
Thanks for that. I'll get onto purchasing items.
One question regarding an Item I am looking into Purchasing:
** spoiler omitted **
Sounds fine Flash, run with it.
Also looked up the Aztec articles you mentioned. The Prcs are in Dragon 315, the mythos articles in the 352 - on area. I will pull those mags today and take a looky loo at them.
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Bryan |
Patrick, should have most of my character up later tonight, tomorrow at the latest (ranger/wizard headed to eldritch knight). I was thinking he would be focused on undead-killing as well (favored enemy, and later taking the Energize Spell feat from Libris Mortis or Bane Magic from Heroes of Horror).
Egan Coyle |
I have finished Egan now. He is a 1/2 elf Ranger with Animals as favorite enemy, and Jungle as favored terrain. He is a ranged weapon specialist (Longbow), and outstanding at Perception. I've just got to get him typed up, and he'll be ready to go.
I see him as a bastard son of one of these plantation owners, whom grew up spending most of his time as a loner in the woods. Since then due to his extensive knowledge of the area, and ability as a tracker, and guide, he has hired himself out as a "tour guide" for people visiting the area and wanting to have the "Wilderness Experience".
Tobias Marshalsea |
Alright, I should be done with this character, now. Now, the explanation for the traits.
Fast Talker(Social): +1 Bluff
-He's a good liar, and he's had plenty of practice.
History of Heresy(Faith): +1 to saves against Divine spells
-The Marshalsea family has a long history of worshiping evil entitys, and there's enough residual unholy favor to protect him slightly from the gods' wills.
Dungeon Monkey |
Hi all, quick post:
Bryan, those feats shouldn't be a prob. I'll go research them tonight.
Scranford/Egan: Your character sounds like a perfect candidate for an association I had fleshed out the Uplands Rangers.
Ranger Info
Uplands Rangers:
The area surrounding Opal is a very dangerous jungle. There are several hundred ways for the uninitiated to die while exploring the shadowed canopy, as hundreds of adventurers prove every year.
Despite the obvious dangers to life and limb, the Opal River is a main thouroughfare to the Uplands and a vast source of wealth. To guard its length, a society of guardians known as the Uplands Rangers were formed.
The Uplands Rangers are based in the fortified town of Fort Trevins, which sits at about the midpoint of the Opal River between Opal and the Uplands. Their mission is to provide security for riverboats and escort any groups wishing to travel to or from the Uplands. A typical Uplands Ranger takes skills in Jungle survival, mountaineering and sailing. Many are also classed as clerics to facilitate defending against the undead that frequent the jungle .
The Uplands Rangers occasionally accept a commision to guide explorer parties into the jungle, as far as the Greensnake and Parrot Rivers if need be. Obviously, this service isn't cheap. The rangers make their living exacting fees for their service.
The current commander of the Uplands Rangers is Hermid (er-MEAD) Trevins, a scion of the original family that founded both the town and the organization. House Trevins is a member of the Opaline gentry, but they have little time for the social whirl that consumes other Opalines. Most city-based gentry for their part dismiss House Trevins as "country cousins" without any grace or couth, despite the family dating back to the days of Arturo and his exodus from Vellasia. As a result, members of House Trevins are more down to earth than your average Opaline gentry, and don't stand on formality unless there is a combat situation.
The Uplands Rangers are a rough bunch, but their hard work and dedication to defending the Opal River and the Uplands keeps Opal safe and prosperous.
Davi/Tobias: Interesting traits
Izkrael |
Here is what i have on Izkrael so far. I had some questions about some equipment, and also was thinking of having him be a member of the Quetzacoatl paladins who hunt undead you had mentioned.
Equipment
Masterwork Composite (Str +2) Longbow, (20x) arrows, longsword, kukri, healer's kit, backpack, bedroll, flint and steel, waterskin, whetstone, belt pouch, explorer's outfit, hemp rope.
Traits
combat drills, and though time has made this training a
dim memory, you still have a knack for quickly responding
to trouble. You gain a +2 trait bonus on Initiative checks.
Devotee of the Green: Your faith in the natural world or one
of the gods of nature makes it easy for you to pick up on
related concepts. You gain a +1 trait bonus on Knowledge
(geography) and Knowledge (nature) checks, and one of
these skills (your choice) is always a class skill for you.
(both already are class skills, this would just give me a +1 bonus to each)
Egan Coyle |
That Upland Ranger thing looks perfect. I've get the character typed in soon, just want to review the Pathfinder rules for Ranger one more time. I have chosen the following equipment with your approval.
MW Studded Leather Armor, Darkwood Shield, Heavy, Cloak of Resistance +1, Healing Belt, MW Longbow, Arrows (40), Battleaxe, Quarterstaff, Shortsword, Potion of Lesser Restoration.
Bryan |
Hi all, quick post:
Bryan, those feats shouldn't be a prob. I'll go research them tonight.
Actually, I wasn't going to take those to start with, but was looking to take one or the other a few levels down the line. After working on my character a bit, there's really only one non-PFRPG feat that I'd like to take to start (as my 3rd level feat):
You can channel the energy of a touch spell into a weapon, causing the spell to discharge when you strike an opponent.
Prequisites: Base attack bonus +1, caster level 1st
Benefit: You can alter a spell with a range of touch to transfer its energy from your hand to a weapon that you hold. The next time you strike an opponent with that weapon, the spell discharges. The target takes the normal damage and effects of a successful attack in addition to the spell's effect. Once you place a spell into a weapon, you must discharge it within 1 minute, or its energy dissipates harmlessly.
You can place a smiting spell on a piece of ammunition or a projectile, such as a sling bullet, an arrow, or a crossbow bolt. In such a case, the spell dissipates if the attack misses. The spell cannot be placed on a bow, crossbow, sling, or similar weapon that uses ammunition.
A smiting spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Let me know if that one is OK.
EDIT: Would the Order of the Feathered Serpent accept members who are not clerics or paladins? And does the member need to be a worshipper of Quetzalcoatl? Right now, I'm looking at a "undead slaughtered my adventure-seeking parents" background, and it seems like the order would be a good fit.
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Tobias Marshalsea |
Playing catch-up; where are you getting the traits from?
The Pathfinder Companion for Second Darkness, although, if you don't have it, a complete list was posted in the first post of this discussion thread for a different pbp.
Sanvoros Draben |
DM - finishing up on my character's stats here; here are the feats, traits, and magic items selected, for your OK.
Feats
Skill Focus [Spellcraft] (Half-Elf B) (+3 on Spellcraft checks)
Arcane Strike (Lvl 1) (swift action; weapons are magic and +1 damage)
Smiting Spell (Lvl 3; PHII) (place touch spell into weapon; +1 lvl to spell slot)
Traits
Magical Knack: (Wizard) You were raised, either wholly or in part, by a magical creature, either after it found you abandoned in the woods or because your parents often left you in the care of a magical minion. This constant exposure to magic has made its mysteries easy for you to understand, even when you turn your mind to other devotions and tasks. Pick a class when you gain this trait—your caster level in that class gains a +2 trait bonus as long as this bonus doesn’t increase your caster level higher than your current Hit Dice. This trait is from the Second Darkness companion. His background will flesh it out, but to sum up - his parents were explorers of the area who took him with them often (think "The Mummy Returns"). One unfortunate expedition resulted in their deaths at the hands of undead and his wandering alone. He was rescued when he stumbled upon a forgotten ruin guarded by a couatl. This being healed him, and helped develop his skills and knowledge of magic and destroying the undead.
Purchased Magic Items
wand of mage armor 50ch (750gp)
potion of cure light wounds x2 (75gp)
potion of lesser restoration (225gp)
Scrolls (scribed by Sanvoros): protection from evil x2, detect undead x2, shield x2 (6x 12.5gp = 75gp)
Scrolls purchased and scribed into spellbook: Identify, Burning Hands, Orb of Acid (Lesser) [Complete Arcane] (3x25gp + 3x100gp = 375gp)
Oh, and if you can give me any better suggestions for bonus languages, please feel free. I didn't know all of the races or native languages for the area, so I have the following currently selected (Int 4, plus 1 for linguistics): Common, Elven, Draconic, Xoltec, Celestial, Sylvan, Giant. I'm thinking the first five are set, but Sylvan and Giant were somewhat of a "shot-in-the-dark".
Joleesa Morvais |
Joleesa is done, all except for her Background and Appearance.
For your Inspection Pat:
POSSESSIONS
Masterwork Rapier (320gp)
Wand Rifle (400gp)
Light Mace (5gp)
Whip (1gp)
Masterwork Chain Shirt (250gp)
Traveller’s Outfit [Black Pants, White Shirt, Black Boots, Black Cloak] (Free)
Noble's Outfit [Fine Black Dress and undergarments] (75gp)
Signet Ring with The Morvais Family Crest (5gp)
Backpack (2gp)
Flint and Steel (1gp)
Whetstone (2cp)
Waterskin (1gp)
2 Sacks (2sp)
5 Sunrods (10gp)
Silk Rope, 50’ (10gp)
Small Steel Mirror (10gp)
Map Case w/ a Map of Opal City and a Map of the surrounding area (3gp)
MAGICAL ITEMS
Black Velvet Cloak of Resistance +1 (1,000gp)
WANDS
Wand of Ray of Flame; 1st (750gp)
Wand of Ray of Clumsiness; 1st (750gp)
POTIONS
4x Cure Light Wounds (150gp - 37gp, 5sp each)
2x Shield (75gp - 37gp, 5sp each)
TREASURE
Belt Pouch (1gp)
Containing:
3pp, 47gp, 35sp, 28cp
Dungeon Monkey |
Nathan:
The Order of The Feathered Serpent has a large chapterhouse in Opal, I would assume you are affiliated with it, and can rely on it for cut-rate healing and free lodging in town.
Scranford:
Bryan:
Davi:
Flash: Looks good. Lady Joleesa is ready to hit the scene! Thanks for the art linkys, that's a lot of what I want to convey. I've never run a Central American mythos based game, and I am excited to mix it up with giant dinos, undead and Elder Evils!
runs off to laugh maniacally
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Spoiler:The traits look ok, except the +2 initiative is a little strong. Possibly +1 as a general or +2 but only in a defined situation.
Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just letting you know in case you missed it. You're the GM and it's still your call.
Flash: Looks good. Lady Joleesa is ready to hit the scene!
Thanks for the art linkys, that's a lot of what I want to convey.
No Problem. I was goin' through that guy's art (it's frickin' awesome and it's interesting to see how someone's style develops as they do more work) and thought you might appreciate it.
Bryan |
Bryan:
** spoiler omitted **
...
Cool; thanks for the language suggestions. I updated my character to take those into account. I should be able to have my background stuff done in the next day or so; he will be a member of the Order as it seems to fit the background very well. Any problems with the traits or magic items?
Tobias Marshalsea |
DM
In other news, I'm just about done with the character sheet.
The Eldritch Mr. Shiny |
Here are a few concepts I have in mind. Which one do you think would fit best?
- Modified version of Vilya
- Modified version of Shariv
- LN female human psion
- LN male half-elf cleric/wizard/binder
- CG female half-orc sorcerer
Anyone? Bueller?
Seriously, I need input.
Egan Coyle |
I've finished the character and hopefully will have time to type him in tomorrow.
Mr. Shiney, you are aware this is Pathfinder Beta RPG right. Of all your concepts the only one in the Pathfinder Beta is the Sorcerer. Not trying to be the DM or anything, just my 2-cents. Maybe that's OK since it's supposed to be backward compatible, but I find the Pathfinder classes to be a little more powerful, than the standard classes.
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Here are a few concepts I have in mind. Which one do you think would fit best?
- Modified version of Vilya
Not knowing what exactly a Binder does (other than use Vestiges), it's hard to say yes or no. Koleesa does do the Rogue thing quite well though, so we do have that angle covered.
- Modified version of Shariv
Once again, Rogue stuff covered, but I like the concept. I Love the Paragon Classes from UA and Human Paragon has to be my favourite. I had to practically get down on my hands an knees and beg my DM to let me use them.
- LN female human psion
I have always wanted to use Psionics but my DM hates them and won't allow them. I did play an Harssaf Pyrokineticist for Mud Sorcerer's Tomb run by another friend though (and boy did that go down well when his Flame Whip wouldn't damage half the creatures!). I'm cool with this if Pat is.
- LN male half-elf cleric/wizard/binder
Again, no idea what Binders do, so I'm just assuming this is like a Mystic Theurge type Character? Maybe just can the Binder and go with Mystic Theurge and this one might be a goer. Back up Caster, Back up Healer.
- CG female half-orc sorcerer
We already have one Sorcerer, so I would either go with a Wizard, or use the Mystic Theurge idea and go Cleric/Sorc?
My 2cp
I think my friend (Ashley) was talking about maybe playing a Cleric (which we don't have yet). Hopefully he'll post soon so we can get a clearer idea of the Party composition.
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
WHAT THE HELL PATRICK! :) A game of yours that I am not in... shame on you. SHAME I say. How did I miss this? I am very upset. I will lurk for sure if you need 1 more or an alternate let me know :) I am going to tell Ingra and Eva on you!!! Guys Patrick is one hell of a PBb GM!
Yeah I know how lucky I am! I can't believe I got in before this was full!
I play with Pat in another PbP Z-Day run by Kruelaid and he is one hell of a good player too.Dungeon Monkey |
OK quick update:
Shiny: If you made Vilya an Opaline native, her personality would fit right in. You could spin her a noble like Joleesa or perhaps a native of the Driftwood District, the lower-class part of town. There are many folks out to tomb rob in Opal too, so Shariv would work. Possibly a member of the Explorer's Guild (Opal's Adventurer's Guild).
The concerns the others have re your choices are germaine, perhaps take a looky loo at what else the party needs and remember we are doing the Pathfinder thing. If you want to try the psion, I would be interested to attempt to DM it, you would have to give me a little time to get up to speed, no one has ever done psionics in one of my games before (I do have the splats though). I'm up for the challenge if you are.
Flash: If the eyepatch is something that will facilitate RPing, I'll let you go with it, no penalty. I guess there would normally be a penalty, but where you are voluntarily taking the patch I wont punish you.
Mathan: Your traits are cool, I thought you had made them yourself. If they are 'canon' then let them stand as is.
Bryan: Everything you have posted seems kosher to me.
Davi:
Patrick Curtin |
Larcifer wrote:WHAT THE HELL PATRICK! :) A game of yours that I am not in... shame on you. SHAME I say. How did I miss this? I am very upset. I will lurk for sure if you need 1 more or an alternate let me know :) I am going to tell Ingra and Eva on you!!! Guys Patrick is one hell of a PBb GM!Yeah I know how lucky I am! I can't believe I got in before this was full!
I play with Pat in another PbP Z-Day run by Kruelaid and he is one hell of a good player too.
Sorry Larcifer, but two outta four aint bad! Thanks for the ego boost though, both of you! :)
flash_cxxi RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32 |
Flash: If the eyepatch is something that will facilitate RPing, I'll let you go with it, no penalty. I guess there would normally be a penalty, but where you are voluntarily taking the patch I wont punish you.
Cool, thanks Pat.
I am writing Joleesa's Background now, then I'm done.Joleesa Morvais |
Alrighty...
Just got her Background and Appearance done and did some tweaking of her equipment (bought an Eye Patch and Thieves Tools, ditching a couple of Potions).
Joleesa is finally done and finished, ready and itching to start whenever everyone is ready to go.
Tobias Marshalsea |
Alright, a backround has been added to my sheet.
Also, here's a rough guide to who we have in the party so far.
- Izkrael, Elf Paladin 2/ Ranger 1, by Nathan Nassif
- Sanvoros Draben, Half-elf Transmuter 1/ Ranger 2, by Bryan
- Joleesa Morvais, Human Rogue 1/ Fighter 2, by flash_ccxi
- Tobias Marshalsea, Human Sorcerer 3, by Davi
- Egan Coyle, Ranger 3?, by scranford
- Ten Foot Twin-Killer, Half-Orc Cleric?, by All DMs are evil
- Vilya The Taker, Human Binder 1/ Rogue 2?, by The Eldritch Mr Shiny
Vilya the Taker |
Alright, a backround has been added to myVilya The Taker, Human Binder 1/ Rogue 2?, by The Eldritch Mr Shiny[/list]
I was thinking Binder 2 / Rogue 1.
Here is the homebrew vestige I'm using. If you don't want to use it, I can use one of the ones out of the book.
Cypharis, the Eternal Adventurer
Binding DC: 15
Special requirement: no
Legend: Cypharis was a powerful rogue, scout, and adventurer for hire in the age of Thassilon. After discovering a strange mirror in an ancient ruin, he impulsively pressed his hand to the glass. The mirror, a pre-Thassilonian relic, drew his soul from his body and imprisoned it in the space between the planes. Upon discovery, Cypharis’ lifeless shell was presumed dead, and buried. Cypharis, without a mortal body to return to, wanders the space between planes, looking for a willing host that would allow him to experience the material world once more.
Sign: Your eyes become black and pupil-less, and your fingers elongate by slightly over an inch.
Influence: You become arrogant and impulsive, making split-second decisions based on instinct alone. Cypharis relished life, and anyone binding him finds themselves looking for thrills, and generally not worrying about anything, living in the moment.
Granted abilities: You gain some of the mortal Cypharis’ skill with traps and locks, as well as the ability to wield some of his favorite weapons.
Rogue’s Friend: You gain Open Lock as a class skill when Cypharis is bound. Treat as if one had four ranks in this skill.
Sprint: You gain +10 to your base land speed.
Evasion: (as rogue ability), if a reflex save is made on an attack that would deal half damage on success, that attack instead deals no damage.
Cypharis’ Weaponry: You gain the benefits of the MWP: short sword; MWP: handaxe; and MWP: kukri feats.
Bryan |
Alright, a backround has been added to my sheet.
Also, here's a rough guide to who we have in the party so far.
- Izkrael, Elf Paladin 2/ Ranger 1, by Nathan Nassif
- Sanvoros Draben, Half-elf Transmuter 2/ Ranger 1, by Bryan
- Joleesa Morvais, Human Rogue 1/ Fighter 2, by flash_ccxi
- Tobias Marshalsea, Human Sorcerer 3, by Davi
- Egan Coyle, Ranger 3?, by scranford
- Ten Foot Twin-Killer, Half-Orc Cleric?, by All DMs are evil
- Vilya The Taker, Human Binder 1/ Rogue 2?, by The Eldritch Mr Shiny
Fixed my levels ;-)
Davi The Eccentric |
Alright, here's a fixed list of everyone so far.
- Izkrael, Elf Paladin 2/ Ranger 1, by Nathan Nassif
- Sanvoros Draben, Half-elf Transmuter 2/ Ranger 1, by Bryan
- Joleesa Morvais, Human Rogue 1/ Fighter 2, by flash_ccxi
- Tobias Marshalsea, Human Sorcerer 3, by Davi
- Egan Coyle, Ranger 3?, by scranford
- Ten Foot Twin-Eater, Half-Orc Cleric of Cayden Cailean 3, by All DMs are evil
- Vilya The Taker, Human Binder 2/ Rogue 1, by The Eldritch Mr Shiny
Sorry about the amount of errors in the original list.