Id never say Doc was obsolete. Not the way in which he cut down the shaman and the monstrous Musangi. That was epic!
Your character breakdown is understandable and Doc is definitely comic relief. I still laugh at that line he said to Grusk when he said 'something is in me eye" and you replied 'its your finger dummy'. Effin hilarious!. And maybe in the tight quarters of the jungle his bombs didnt get a chance to shine but out on the plains where everything is spread out and wide open I imagine its going to be a different story entirely.
By level 4/5 we're going to need 2 healers...if not sooner the way we've been going. And we might have to turn some of our pay into cure potions until then. As is Sentis can only cast 3 Cure Light Wounds a day and now that we're 3 level thats barely enough to bring one party member back to full strength. It's 50 gp for you to brew them right? Thats still way more effecient than buying them outright.
Grusk will probably be the only one that can use the Cleric scroll/deck of cards unless someone else has Use Magic Device?Yup. Sure do.
I won't fight him if he wants them though.
I can also learn new alchemical formulas from spellbooks, provided they are on the formula list, so I'd like to see what's in the ones we picked up and find out if I can use any of it.
It doesnt look like Grusk has any ranks in UMD so I doubt he'll argue over you having it but he can correct me if Im wrong.
Im positive one of the spell books was full of destructive spells that DM Voiceless said 'Doc would find especially useful' so its all yours too.
Id never say Doc was obsolete. Not the way in which he cut down the shaman and the monstrous Musangi. That was epic!
I meant obsolete as a healer. You've been handling the majority of it. You're right about the diminishing returns we'll get down the road though. We'll have to offset that by throwing money at it. speaking of which...
It's 50 gp for you to brew them right? Thats still way more effecient than buying them outright.
spell level x caster level x 50 is the market price. Production is 1/2 that.
So basically I can make 1d8+1 heal juice for 25 gp each.
I've been trying to figure out how to offset cost so Doc doesn't have to pay out of his own pocket to keep the group alive. It also seems silly to have everyone buy potions individually, or for doc to charge per potion after they're used.
What would the group think of a communal pool of money for Doc to use for crafting utility items? For 50-100 gold each every time we get paid I think I can keep the group fully stocked in potions of various kinds and alchemical tricks.
Maybe something as simple as having a "group cut" that basically counts as an extra party member when we divide treasure. We can use it to craft stuff and buy communal items like wands of CLW.
Thoughts?
Jeweled flask
Small statue of a humanoid
sack of Fast Healing - 5 uses
+1 shield of battering?
2 spellbooks
works of art worth ?
10x mithril arrowheads
3x adamantite sling stones
cold iron battleaex head
cold iron swordblade
obsidian battleaxe head (magic)
laether bound, metal shod and padlocked book
3x deck of cards
sealed wooden box inlaid with mother of pearl
long johns!
weapon hilt
shaman mask
In another game I was in the group handed loot like this:
One of us takes the loot list (like the one sentis provided above, because he's awesome) and quotes it, then simply posts what they're taking and reposts the rest of the list for the next person to quote. This continues until nothing is left. In the case of disputes (two people wanting the same item) we simply roll off on a D20.
It would look like this:
--------------------------
Doc is taking-
Jeweled flask
1 Spellbook
3 adamantine sling bullets
Leaving-
Small statue of a humanoid
sack of Fast Healing - 5 uses
+1 shield of battering?
1 spellbook
works of art worth ?
10x mithril arrowheads
cold iron battleaex head
cold iron swordblade
obsidian battleaxe head (magic)
laether bound, metal shod and padlocked book
3x deck of cards
sealed wooden box inlaid with mother of pearl
long johns!
weapon hilt
shaman mask
------------------------
Then the next person copies the "what's left" list and takes what they'd like the same way. This continues until nothing is left. Unclaimed items get liquidated into cash and divided later.
How does this sound to everyone?
Do we know what is in the sealed box?
I could switch Darkbiter's teamwork feat to Combat Medic if need be, and in another level he starts getting spells, so can help with the hp healing at least.
Grusk takes
sack of fast healing - 5 uses
10x mithril arrowheads
Leaving-
Small statue of a humanoid
+1 shield of battering?
1 spellbook
works of art worth ?
cold iron battleaex head
cold iron swordblade
obsidian battleaxe head (magic)
laether bound, metal shod and padlocked book
3x deck of cards
sealed wooden box inlaid with mother of pearl
long johns!
weapon hilt
shaman mask
Do we know what is in the sealed box?
I could switch Darkbiter's teamwork feat to Combat Medic if need be, and in another level he starts getting spells, so can help with the hp healing at least.
I dont understand why Combat Medic is a Teamwork feat. Why does the receipient need to have the feat as well? Seems like just the healer would need the feat. I was going to take this but for that reason alone.
Grusk and I can probably get the box open. Voice, can we retcon a little and say that Grusk and Doc took 20 on a Disable Device check during our travel time getting to town?
I dont understand why Combat Medic is a Teamwork feat. Why does the receipient need to have the feat as well? Seems like just the healer would need the feat. I was going to take this but for that reason alone.
I'll take it if you do. I still haven't picked mine because none of the ones that were picked by anyone else were very suitable for Doc.
@ Doc - Both of your ideas are sound. I really like the idea of a party fund for supplying Cure and other potions. And at 25 gp/each its a steal. Question - wouldnt they be 1d8 + 2 hp since youre second level alchemist?
The loot draw is good too so Ill continue it. I reckon anything not claimed or wanted can be sold and the coin be put into the party fund.
Small statue of a humanoid - this was sold to bring our gp per squadie to 53 gp, 3 sp, 3 cp
works of art worth ? - Vankerman took these
Sentis claims -
shaman mask
1x deck of cards - silent scroll - Feast of Ashes Druid 2nd
Leaving -
+1 shield of battering?
1 spellbook
cold iron battleaex head
cold iron swordblade
obsidian battleaxe head (magic)
laether bound, metal shod and padlocked book
2x deck of cards (1 Cure moderate wounds/Cl 2nd and 1 Glitterdut/Wizard 2nd)
sealed wooden box inlaid with mother of pearl
long johns!
weapon hilt
Question - wouldnt they be 1d8 + 2 hp since youre second level alchemist?
Only if I cast them at 2nd level when I create the potion, which would double the cost. When crafting I don't have to create an item at my full level. I can save money by casting them at a lover level. It's one of those "crafting magic on a budget" tricks. The most bang for our buck is for me to cast them at 1st level strength.
I'll switch it to combat medic as well; none of the other ones really seem to fit him
Darkbiter claims -
cold iron battleaex head
weapon hilt
long johns!
Leaving -
+1 shield of battering?
1 spellbook
cold iron swordblade (will claim if no one else takes it, but will leave available for the rest if they want it)
obsidian battleaxe head (magic)
laether bound, metal shod and padlocked book
2x deck of cards (1 Cure moderate wounds/Cl 2nd and 1 Glitterdut/Wizard 2nd)
sealed wooden box inlaid with mother of pearl
Only if I cast them at 2nd level when I create the potion, which would double the cost. When crafting I don't have to create an item at my full level. I can save money by casting them at a lover level. It's one of those "crafting magic on a budget" tricks. The most bang for our buck is for me to cast them at 1st level strength.Question - wouldnt they be 1d8 + 2 hp since youre second level alchemist?
Brilliant and effecient! I like it.
Im not feeling Combat Medic. I tend to think more along lines of 'the quicker our enemy is dead' = 'the less healing we'll require' so the Precise Strike is a better fit for us. Especially since we're Wolves and to surround an enemy is wolfpack tactics. I dont like the idea of all of us having to take that feat. We've required very little healing during combat thus far. But if everyone would rather choose that than Precise Strike then I'll switch as well.
For me, it's as much that as a player, I just find the teamwork feats to be a bit too fiddly for my tastes, leading to most of the time, I completely forget to use it. Combat Medic, at least, is less fiddly than the rest.
Im not feeling Combat Medic. I tend to think more along lines of 'the quicker our enemy is dead' = 'the less healing we'll require' so the Precise Strike is a better fit for us. Especially since we're Wolves and to surround an enemy is wolfpack tactics. I dont like the idea of all of us having to take that feat. We've required very little healing during combat thus far. But if everyone would rather choose that than Precise Strike then I'll switch as well.
The higher level we get the more Doc is going to stay at range, so precise strike kind of sucks for me, but I'll take it to help the group in the unfortunate event that I get in melee. Basically I'll take whatever everyone else decides on.
I am only interested in the two spellbooks and possibly the lock book, depending on their conents. Remember I'm a Magus now, so I could potentially make use of a destructo spell book
Unless the long johns do something for a monk I do not really want anything from the list. On the teamwork teams I am taking shake it off if anyone at any point want to take it with me. On top a side note I was trying to figure out how say combat now that I am going with the clear boxing theme any ideas?
What's the sword blade for? Any particular kind? I may take that... Otherwise... no loot for Cort. He's fine with his gear for now. As for teamwork I'm sticking with Precise Strike for now, also remember that now/soon we're levelling to third, making us even more powerful with regards to healing... just a thought.
Unless the long johns do something for a monk I do not really want anything from the list. On the teamwork teams I am taking shake it off if anyone at any point want to take it with me. On top a side note I was trying to figure out how say combat now that I am going with the clear boxing theme any ideas?
Boxing should be fun to describe, simply talk about counters and/or blocks which are mostly solid punches to the face and body. Leave out most of the fancyness, as there is little in boxing for the average observer, to most it simply looks like two men beating on each other. Should be fun to describe actually.
What's the sword blade for? Any particular kind? I may take that... Otherwise... no loot for Cort. He's fine with his gear for now. As for teamwork I'm sticking with Precise Strike for now, also remember that now/soon we're levelling to third, making us even more powerful with regards to healing... just a thought.
Sorry I forgot to add that the sword blade is longsword sized.
and even at 3rd level Sentis doesnt get access to any more heal spells. So for a party of 6 3rd level characters theres only 3d8 + 9 total to go around and Heal checks which have been iffy. So having other means will be ideal. Docs plan of a party fund just for this is a good one in my book.
He'll get one more 1st level spell at 4th but no 3rd level spells (Cure Moderate Wounds) until 5th. Thats a ways to go.
And even if you guys dont see something specifically for your character you could still grab something and sell it while we're in town.
Blaze & Doc - cant you both make use of both spell books?
Ah... well I suppose I'll take the blade and maybe I can get it reforged to something more appropriate. Also, of course I'll drop some on the healing fund. I didn't mean to seem like Cort wouldn't be in on that.
What has worked well for groups I've been in the past, is when splitting up gold, the party counts as an entity, and gets a equal share. It's quick, easy, and no one is bemoaning having to give up gp from their personal stash, because it was never there to begin with.
He'll get one more 1st level spell at 4th but no 3rd level spells (Cure Moderate Wounds) until 5th. Thats a ways to go.
6th, actually. Alchemists have the slower casting progression.
Blaze & Doc - cant you both make use of both spell books?
That's a good point.
Voice, can you just give us a list of the spells in those books? Blaze can keep them since they're already arcane books, I just need to copy out the relevant spells and turn them into formulas.
(I'll just make a "stuff I'm trying to learn" list and make the rolls as the game progresses. I like describing the process. Failures are actually more fun than successes when it comes to learning new alchemy)
What has worked well for groups I've been in the past, is when splitting up gold, the party counts as an entity, and gets a equal share. It's quick, easy, and no one is bemoaning having to give up gp from their personal stash, because it was never there to begin with.
That's the way I'd like to see it done. Anyone disagree?
Wouldn't it make more sense to take any all unwanted loot, as in loot your PC wouldn't actually use as well as random treasure, sell ir off, then divided among the group evenly, including the party fund???
For example, Blaze doesn't actually want any of the gear. If we have the shield, sword blade, axe head, and the box as unclaimed gear, we sell it all, and get say 310g total, we then divide that all tween us PCs plus the party fund meaning we all get roughly 38g.
For the spellbooks, I am happy for Blaze and Doc to tell me what spells they would like and I'll fill it out with a few flavorful ones on the side. One book is destructive / fire and has up to 3rd level spells in it; while the other is mostly defensive / utility and has up to 2nd level spells in it.
For potion supplies, the bookshelves also had a myriad of vials and unguents - so Doc can use that for a 250gp potion making fund if you like?
For potion supplies, the bookshelves also had a myriad of vials and unguents - so Doc can use that for a 250gp potion making fund if you like?
Great. We'll use that as the first chunk of our party fund and add to it when we get paid.
Since it looks like I'm going to be using the party funds most frequently, I'll keep track of it in my profile at the bottom.
If anyone has any particular potion or alchemical item requests, let me know. If not, I'll make everyone a care package as soon as we have a few days of down time.
One other point - is that I'd be open to letting you make a potion of regeneration that allows for 'Fast Healing 1' for a single minute (or 10hp restored) as a 1st level potion.
Not as useful in battle, but makes between combat healing a bit easier and more reliable.
One other point - is that I'd be open to letting you make a potion of regeneration that allows for 'Fast Healing 1' for a single minute (or 10hp restored) as a 1st level potion.
Not as useful in battle, but makes between combat healing a bit easier and more reliable.
So basically like the old Lesser Vigor spell? That's awesome. That's one I'd love to see in one of those spell books.
What if we combine both ideas for the party fund? We give the group an equal share (that way we know that something is always going in for the party) and whatever no one wants that we sell off goes into the fund too? We'll probably end up stockpiling some nice cash this way.
Doc and Blaze should take the other two deck of cards/silent scrolls too before we start selling stuff.
1 - Cure Moderate Wounds - Cleric 2nd
2 - Glitterdust - Wizard 2nd
So basically like the old Lesser Vigor spell?
Yep - but for flavor's sake lets say it makes an 'Unguent' rather than a 'Potion'. So rather than drinking you have to smear it into the wound.
What if we combine both ideas for the party fund? We give the group an equal share (that way we know that something is always going in for the party) and whatever no one wants that we sell off goes into the fund too? We'll probably end up stockpiling some nice cash this way.
I like this idea. A group that is hard-core capitalist in regards to it's dealings with the world, but very socialist within itself is a very dwarven concept. :)
Doc and Blaze should take the other two deck of cards/silent scrolls too before we start selling stuff.1 - Cure Moderate Wounds - Cleric 2nd
2 - Glitterdust - Wizard 2nd
Mind if I hang on to them Blaze? They're both utility spells, and i think given the choice between casting either of them, and having someone else do it so you can deal damage, we know what Blaze is more likely to want. :)
Yea, I was gonna say take em both. Gliterdust is nice and all, but if I'm gonna take a round to cast, the spell will either be a buff or dmg one.
Fire spells you say? For the fire/sun focused Magus? Yes please!! Lol
Voice, what level are those two decks cast at? 5th?
Is that obsidian battle axe 1 handed?
The decks are cast at 5th level, and the battle axe is indeed 1 handed.
Blaze - have a look and let me know what spells you want in the book.
I'll take the axe then. It's dwarf-y.
The decks are cast at 5th level, and the battle axe is indeed 1 handed.
Blaze - have a look and let me know what spells you want in the book.
Am I limited to just Magus spells? Or can I branch out a bit?
Blaze - stick to the Magus list for now.
Doc good luck with your drinking game.
Voice, in lack of a private message feature on these boards, I'm afraid I have to do this out in the open.
I'm sorry you're finding this game a challenge to run. I don't think anyone is challenging your authority as GM. At most we're challenging your interpretations of the rules.
I'm going to break this down so there's no misunderstandings-
I think your "no dipping" policy is a little uncalled for, but I was willing to go with it. You're just trying to discourage powergaming. I get that. We could argue about how multi-classing caster classes with non-caster classes is never a path to a powerful character, but it's a moot point. You have the final say.
Where I get past my comfort zone as a player is when there are obvious rules for a situation and they get thrown out in favor of something needlessly complex simply for the sake of upping the risk factor.
Lets look at this drinking game- Ten rounds of checks and fort saves. Statistically, I'm going to fail. That's 20 rolls. Even if I get to take 10 on half of them, the odds of me rolling poorly on a few of them are practically guaranteed. Barring pure blind luck, there is simply no way to succeed on this. Doc has a +13 bonus to fort saves against drinking and an ability that lets him drink faster and more easily than other people. Neither of those things come in to play at all in this drinking contest. I don't even know what to say to that. Then there's the fact that you'd be letting me take ten on the saves but not the checks. That's pretty backwards.
What it comes down to is that my character, both mechanically and thematically, is tailored to be ridiculously good at this sort of thing, and it's being tossed aside. That is not fun for me.
So what it comes down to is that I'm bowing out. The rest of you have fun. It's been a great game with some awesome character interaction. If you ever get into a game that needs a solid poster, look me up.
Doc bequeaths his alarm traps to Grusk and his cure potions to Sentis. Other than that, I'm going to assume he drowns in beer, just like he'd want.
Doomed Hero - if you really want I can respond, but you've already chosen to leave so I don't really see the point.
Actually - I am going to make the choice to stand aside myself. Although I have been initially happy with how things went, I've never truly been able to get into the headspace I need to happily run this PbP.
So I'm going to step out - Doc can stay and you can look for a new DM.
It has been fun (for the most part) and I hope that I have been a reasonable taskmaster. I wish you luck in the future.
Any chance I can talk you out of that Doc?
I think there was a great connection there amongst all of our characters.
Truthfully I have been considering making Grusk more melee and less rouge skills/talents. He is a tank afterall and the level "dips" discussion was one I was going to have to have with our good DM.
I also know DM VoV would gladly work with you to set this up through e-mail away from the prying eyes of others, and in a way that you are agreeable to.
I would also say many of the possible DM's on paizo are here!
Any way I could talk you out of that DM VoV
Deja vu!
I'd be sorry to see anybody go, but if they do, I wish them all the best. It was a grand concept to start with, and not an easy one to continue and adjust to without the overall master plan.
Oh wow... I'm really gonna hope this doesn't fall apart. I really enjoyed this pbp (especially considering it was my first on these forums.)
WOW....this is definitely a shock. I've loved this game, and you've been a really good DM for the most part and your my DM for two games, both of which I enjoy a lot.
Blaze, especially now that he's become a Magus, is one of my favorite PCs I've ever made, and part of that is due to your DMing us. Granted there's been a time or two I wish things mighta been a bit different, but overall this has been a great game, one I've really enjoyed.
Hell, you even went out of your way to create books that grant benefits tailored to each PC, which alone makes up for any of the minor issues I might have had.
I've had some issues with two other PbPs recently that are similar to the ones here. One I'm a PC, the other I DM, and my advice here is the same I gave to my PCs for the game I run:
Sometimes problems and conflicts of personality or rules debates create a headed situation, but we have these OOC forums, as well as email if we would prefer to go private, that allow us to hopefully work out any difficulties as mature adults.
In closing, I'd like to say that I really hope we can resolve this, that the us showing the love so to speak helps you to change your mind and that we can continue this awesome game.
Dave aka Monkeygod aka Blaze.
That's why I figured it would be best for me just to leave the game. I didn't want the fun to stop just because my play style doesn't mesh well with the GM's.
That's why I figured it would be best for me just to leave the game. I didn't want the fun to stop just because my play style doesn't mesh well with the GM's.
Part of the issue has come about the manner in which the rules queries / challenges have been stated.
For the record, this is how the Drinking Post challenge would have looked:
Round 1: DC 10 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10)
Round 2: DC 11 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10)
Round 3: DC 12 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10)
Focus Check: DC 11 Will vs Fear or Con check (cannot take 10)
Round 4: DC 13 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10 - if still focused)
Round 5: DC 14 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10 - if still focused)
Round 6: DC 15 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10 - if still focused)
Focus Check: DC 12 Will vs Fear or Con check (cannot take 10)
Round 7: DC 16 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10 - if still focused)
Round 8: DC 17 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10 - if still focused)
Focus Check: DC 13 Will vs Fear or Con check (cannot take 10)
Round 9: DC 18 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10 - if still focused)
Round 10: DC 19 Fort save vs alcohol (can take 10 - if still focused)
@ 1st focus check fail - lose focus and become shaken
@ 2nd focus check fail - shaken penalties increase to -4
@ 3rd focus check fail - failure
@ 1st alcohol check fail - become sickened
@ 2nd alcohol check fail - sickened penalties increase to -4
@ 3rd alcohol check fail - failure
Rather than querying how it was set-up or asking for clarification, you assumed that I was somehow bypassing your character's abilities and went for the jugular. The '20' rolls could actually have been as low as '3'.
I stand by the accelerated drinker trait not really helping your character in the challenge.
I stand by the fact that for this particular case the drowning rules are not a good fit. The 'challenge' in this is keeping your mind straight and on task.
DM VoV and Doc - I beseech you both to reconsider. Im in the same boat as Cort as where this was my first pbp and Ive had the best time playing it. The group participation is off the charts from what Ive seen in other games and the character interactions are great.
DM Vov - Im sorry to hear that you arent happy DMing this game though. Thats disheartening to say the least. I think youve done an amazing job and you made the jungle of Sargava come alive for me. I have yet to see any DM that allows almost complete character rebuilds at each level and that says alot about your flexibility and open mindedness.
In the DM's defense, he never said 1 level dips werent allowed. He just wanted an IC reason for it. Doesnt seem like too much to ask for.
Doc - your charcter is perhaps the most colorful and amusing one in our group and it would be a true loss if you really decide to leave.
Lets please solve this diplomatically and amicably. This game, DM and players are just too cool not to. It would be absolute shame if it came to an end.
Yes the IC reason to start in another class......
Actually the barbarian "add" was something I thought might be a really cool plot hook....
Awesome opportunity
Steelwolves "shipwrecked" living in the wilds, limited gear, etc. Doc connecting to his primal being; all of us learning new things, till we are "rescued"
Or just Doc lost in a sandstorm as we cross the desert having to adapt.....
....could be all of us also
Could even be a short mini-adventure!
Fifteen tens of breaths and some cool off time later - I'm still around and not bailing yet...
As a partial response to Sentis - I have enjoyed running the game. Most of the downer over the past week or so has more been a feeling that some of the discussion has been less 'collaborative' and more 'combative'.
I do realize that some of this was fueled from my side as well. More so from the anti-dipping stance I have taken.
When I log on to DM or play it is a cathartic release from the stresses of work mostly, so the last thing I want to do is feel like I stepping back into a conflict situation.
I know that I have some issues with the rules - since technically this is the first ever game that I have actually properly DMed. Please feel free to point them out, but I always respond better to helpful observations rather than direct criticism. Any significant issues I'd always prefer behind spoiler tags as well.
I'll wait to see whether Doomed is still interested and around before flowing forward.