Okay, so yeah, I'm doing this. Mythic is awesome, the first adventure is epic, I can't resist.
I'm going to do exactly four players, no more. However, if I get eight people who want in, I might consider doing two parties. I'll have to come up with some ways to differentiate things in my head - I have a few off-the-wall ideas along those lines already, but we'll wait to see whether it will even be an issue.
To begin with, AinvarG and Black Tom are in, according my long-standing policy giving those two first claim on any PbP I run, ever. (When you start with a particular group, a certain amount of loyalty is part of the package, and as Ainvar recently pointed out to me, we've been doing the PbP thing together for five years - with Black Tom as the GM for that very first outing...)
But the point of the discussion here is really to hash out what people want to play. Based on what I've seen in the Player's Guide and the first adventure I'd recommend the following:
* A balanced party. Cover as many bases as you can. Backups for roles would be a good thing, Just In Case.
* Combat functionality. There's a lot of combat in this. A lot a lot a lot. And the fights are nasty. Optimize for evil-smiting - it's a target-rich environment. Rangers with FE: evil outsiders, paladins, inquisitors with Favored Judgment, clerics with lots of holy damage, that sort of thing.
* Social skills. Diplomacy is a must, Sense Motive, Bluff and Intimidate all highly recommended as well. Again, if you can supply a couple people with the necessary skills in case someone blows it, that's not a bad thing.
* Be Good. I'm actually really inclined to make this a campaign requirement, but I'll leave a little wiggle room if someone has a really awesome idea. But being Good is really, really a Good idea.
* Pick up Faiths of Purity, Champions of Purity and the Demon Hunter's Handbook if you can. You're gonna want the toys in there.
* Give some thought to the downtime rules from Ultimate Campaign. A lot of the stuff in there is skill-oriented, but the campaign pace looks like it might do well for such things (especially toward the second and third parts of the AP). And hey, since you can start granting spells to your worshipers as soon as your 3rd mythic tier, might as well found a church to go with it, amirite?
* Worship Iomedae. Again, not a requirement, but if someone in the party does, you'll be glad you did.
In general, my plan is to stick with my usual character creation breakdown, which I will now repost for ease of use:
* 20 pt buy
* Standard core rules races
* Any classes/racial traits/archetypes from core, APG, Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat, plus the ARG (3PP material potentially allowed - I don't have a lot of it, though, so it's by approval only)
* Feats, spells and archetypes from any Paizo-produced Pathfinder RPG source (with stuff from the 3.5 Pathfinder era potentially allowed - I'm mostly thinking of the spells from Gods and Magic that haven't been converted yet)
* Two Traits, one of which must be from the Wrath of the Righteous Player's Guide.
* Starting gold equal to your class' maximum (this is a change from my usual, but hey - we're going mythic, so what the hell...).
I am not automatically opposed to non-standard races, but I tend to lean a little harder on them than most other rules options. Consider them by-approval-only, but please feel free to ask. Mostly, I don't want a whole party of "really rare" races, but one or two would be fine. (Unless you guys want to do, say, an entire party of tieflings or something. That would be kinda cool.) Of course, as noted above, archetypes from the Advanced Race Guide are fair game for any race I choose to allow in the game. Ultimate Equipment is also open for use essentially without restriction.
Dotting. Well, I'd like to play a wizard, or possibly alchemist, but I'm open to about anything.
If you go for a wizard, the Magaambyan arcanist is an excellent choice for a PrC to work toward.
For an alchemist, I would strongly recommend checking out the discoveries in Champions of Purity; there are several in there that are quite nice for an alchemist who is planning on a little demon-smiting.
Dot
Dotting
Whoa, it's a party!
I have not given this much though as to the class. I'm actually not leaning toward a full caster, which may be a surprise. Ranger or inquisitor have occurred to me. I have played a paladin of Iomedae and enjoyed it, but I don't know if I really did it justice, so I hesitate to try to take that role if someone else wants to go there.
Gonna be fun!
Okay, so yeah, I'm doing this.
Potential Dot.
I'd love to run a paladin. This sounds like a great time to play one.
I'll have my goody goody two shoes paladin up tonight or tomorrow.
A party of paladins! A plethora of paladins!
Anyone have thoughts on archetypes, races, campaign traits/mythic paths they might choose?
My brief look at MA has me thinking I could go about anywhere - Champion, Hierophant, Guardian, all catch my eye. I'm completely up in the air as far as base class - since we have paladin covered or double-covered, I'm thinking ranger, inquisitor, maybe cleric/hierophant. So many choices!
Of course, with multiple paladins, I could play a paladin/sorcerer/dragon disciple! One of my favorites...
Of course, with multiple paladins, I could play a paladin/sorcerer/dragon disciple! One of my favorites...
Nice. There is a paladin/sorcerer/eldritch knight in the NPC Codex that I stole for a cohort in our tabletop game. He's fun, but not as effective as I thought he would be since he lacks a lot of focus. I could see a dragon disciple working better, but I had not considered it before.
I have been reading a guide to building stalwart defenders, so a fighter/stalwart defender/guardian had occurred to me as potentially interesting. A cleric or oracle focused on healing combined with hierophant tiers sounds like a literal lifesaver that I might play, too. It appears we may have enough players for two games, so I'm curious what Shisumo has in mind in dividing up players.
I think I'm going to have to put together several characters, just to get it out of my system so I can reach a decision. The only one I'm not interested in at the moment is wizard/sorcerer + archmage. But we'll see after I sleep - that can change, too. :-p
Here is the profile for Gideon Dawnbringer, brother of Gaspar Dawnbringer, who's profile he is borrowing to see if he fits.
Character Sheet
Gideon Dawnbringer
Male Human (Azlanti) Paladin 1
LG Medium Humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses Perception +2
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Defense
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AC 20, touch 10, flat-footed 20 (+7 armor, +3 shield)
hp 15 (1d10+5)
Fort +4, Ref +0, Will +4
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Offense
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Speed 20 ft.
Melee Heavy Shield Bash +3 (1d4+2/x2) and
. . Dagger +3 (1d4+2/19-20/x2) and
. . Masterwork Longsword +4 (1d8+2/19-20/x2)
Special Attacks smite evil (1/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Evil (At will), Light (1/day)
Paladin Spells Prepared (CL 0):
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Statistics
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Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 16
Base Atk +1; CMB +3; CMD 13
Feats Shield Focus, Toughness
Traits Child of the Crusades (1/day), Chosen of Iomedae
Skills Acrobatics -9 (-13 jump), Climb -7, Diplomacy +7, Escape Artist -9, Fly -9, Heal +6, Knowledge (religion) +4, Ride -9, Sense Motive +6, Stealth -9, Swim -7
Languages Azlanti, Common
SQ aura of good
Combat Gear Sunrod (2); Other Gear Splint mail, Heavy steel shield, Dagger, Masterwork Longsword, Backpack (6 @ 12 lbs), Bedroll, Belt pouch (4 @ 1.18 lbs), Crusader's cross, Flint and steel, Holy symbol, silver (Iomeade), Shield sconce, Signet ring, Waterproof bag (empty), Waterskin, 5 GP, 4 SP
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Special Abilities
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Aura of Good (Ex) The paladin has an Aura of Good with power equal to her class level.
Child of the Crusades (1/day) Against possession/incapacitation, free action: Reroll failed save, keep 2nd result.
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use detect evil at will (as the spell).
Shield Focus +1 Shield AC
Smite Evil (1/day) (Su) +3 to hit, +1 to damage, +3 deflection bonus to AC when used.
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History Bullet Points
- Third son of Noble Family (Given to the Church)
- Golden Child, top of the class, good athlete, honest to a fault
- Very Naive and trusting
- Both parents fought in crusade, and he is eager to prove himself
- Very reverent and faithful to Iomeade, Hopes to someday be a priest
- Defends the innocent, and helpless with everything he has.
- Very inexperienced and clumsy around the fairer sex.
More detailed history to follow if chosen to play.
By my count there are six of us, DM. Any chance you can scrounge up a couple more, so we can do two parties? I'm holding off building a character until I see if there is room, and what roles need to be covered,
Nice. It looks like Child of the Crusades is associated with the Marshal mythic path.
I keep circling around a few different ideas. Ranger or Inquisitor with a demon hunter focus or Cleric or Oracle with a healing focus.
This is Gerald. Got bored at work this morning, so I re-jiggered an old alias into a chassis for a silver draconic sorcerer/dragon disciple. I still need to add a background.
Morning, Gerald!
Are you still thinking paladin? Or are you going to leave that to scranford?
I'm leaning more toward an Iomedaean-themed healer - cleric, oracle, maybe inquisitor. I know that's probably rather obvious, but I've done some off-the-wall stuff and I think maybe this time I'll go more mainstream, so to speak. I rarely keep it completely between the lines, but the muse has not struck me yet.
Does anyone have designs on being the party healer? Can I safely assume I won't step on any toes if I follow this line of thinking?
My plan is to go sorc/pal/dragon disciple.
Depending on party makeup, I'll either go pal 2/sorc3/dd. as more of a caster who can melee, or go sorc 1/pal4/DD as a melee masher who can cast a bit. In the second case, I'll probably pick up some armor.
Of course, depending on the role, I'll have to adjust my spells accordingly.
Cool - I'm interested in seeing how that combination plays. I'm trying to keep in mind Shisumo's comment that it will be good to have all the bases covered.
Straight Paladin - combat hitter, secondary healer, ?
Sor/Pal/DD - combat hitter, secondary arcane, ?
Sound about right? Where does that leave us? Skill Monkey, Primary Arcane, Primary Healer? What role can my tentative plans fill?
Cleric - primary healer, primary divine, secondary combat?
Oracle - primary divine, possible primary healer, secondary combat?
Inquisitor - secondary divine, possible healer, secondary combat?
I'm mostly just trying to think it through out loud, but I'm always open to correction when I overlook something.
Hope Shisumo had fun while he was ignoring us. ;-P
Either a cleric or oracle should fill the divine/healer role perfectly, AG.
Seems like this AP could be a great spot for a battle oracle or a battle cleric, since it seems like we will be getting up close and personal quite a bit.
I was think along those lines, actually, which is why the Inquisitor and his judgments keep worming their way into my thought process, also. They, I believe, also have potential as a secondary skills and secondary healer. Wait, did I just classify them like a bard? Second-best at everything? Never looked at them like that before...
I think I'm going to have to throw together some possibles. What mythic path are you considering?
Since I had forgotten there was a front line paladin build already posted, I will probably concentrate on casting, and concentrate on the archmage path.
And who knows, if we are doing well in combat, I might even gloss over the paladin levels and go straight into dragon disciple and the archmage mythic path.
I don't know, I've always felt like DD was as much melee as sorcerer. It would be a shame to throw that away. I have not looked at the actual abilities for a while, though. Maybe I'm not remembering it right.
Very true. Lots to think about!!
Is aasimar available? Wondering about Aasimar Oracle (Purifier) of Battle - but my heart's not set on it even if the race is available.
Human Oracle of Battle, using favored class bonuses to pick up additional spells, is a strong contender.
The only downside to the Oracle of Battle is that while it is a healer, he or she has no access to channel energy like a oracle of life or a cleric.
Is that going to be a problem?
Oh, ouch. Never mind on the Purifier archetype. It won't work for what I have in mind - they don't get the spellcasting of a normal oracle. I missed that.
Hmm.. Oracle of Metal is intriguing for a combat-focused oracle, also... Same downside, healingwise, as the Oracle of Battle, of course.
If you want an oracle, go for it. Pallys can be secondary healers with channel later, and wands early. We'd get by!
Wow. Okay, I'm back.
Let me just say these two things about my absence during GenCon: first, having way too many people want to play your living campaign is about the best problem a campaign admin can have, and second, $15/day for internet access at a $180/night hotel is ****ing highway robbery. So... yeah. Anyway, yes, I'm back. Exhausted and almost entirely without a voice, but I'm back.
Anyway, it looks like Ainvar and Gerald are coming along nicely with concepts. I was talking to Ferret about his character last night, and he seems to be thinking skills-type - possibly a straight rogue, possibly an inquisitor of Desna - with the Chance Encounter campaign trait. That's not settled, but seems to be the way he's leaning at the moment.
I do want to say, by the way, that unless someone else contacts me about playing in the game, and so far no one has, the group will be Ainvar, Gerald, Black Tom and Ferret; havoc actually didn't get an invite and just dropped in because he saw the thread pop up, and scranford is already playing in a Wrath game. That's not in and of itself, a reason to DQ him from this one - I trust you guys, or else I wouldn't have invited you - but if there is only one party, I'm going to save the spots for the people who won't be playing otherwise. I hope you understand, scranford.
Given that, by the way, Gerald, I'd probably emphasize the melee over the casting, assuming Tom sticks with his alchemist or wizard idea.
If Tom does that, DM, that'll be awesome too. I'm quite happy getting to bust out a front liner type paladin with a little splash of magic added in!
If its we four, I'll take paladin at first level and choOse a different trait and mythic path.
So, when you get a chance to catch your breath, Shisumo, what's your feeling (as the GM or as a player) about the Oracle of Metal choice? It's not officially an Iomedaean mystery, but mysteries aren't supposed to be tied to dieties, anyway, depending on who you ask, and I'm thinking she would probably take a trait associated with Iomedae from Faith of Purity.
She's coming together in my head as a paladin-wannabe, either because of a misunderstanding of her gifts or a misunderstanding of what a paladin is, but a holy warrior nonetheless. She will ...
I just realized I'm saying she's a she. That wasn't part of my plan. Hmmm
OK, this pala... oracle would have the martial skills revelation and possibly the armor mastery revelation out of the gate to make h... er, so that they are as close to a melee combatant as the mystery will allow, but as the powers of the oracle increase, the focus on paladin-ness will fall away. Kind of "what I want to me when I grow up" meets real life.
Reasonable? Funny how much of this stuff comes together when I take the time to try to explain it... And I guess he will be a she.
Usually when I am planning a charismatic character, it ends up a she. The low Cha ones end up being dudes.
I think it sounds spiffy-keen. And I don't know if you're thinking of a specific trait from FoP or not, but if you're just at the "Iomedaen Faith trait of some kind" stage, there's this from Champions of Purity that feels like it syncs with the Metal revelation fairly well:
Chosen of Iomedae (Faith): At your birth, your parents dedicated your soul to Iomedae to mold into a sword of her light. The goddess blessed you, granting you a gift of light to brighten your path through darkness and a fine sword with which to spread her will. You may cast light once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level 1st), and you begin play with a masterwork longsword. In addition, whenever light is cast upon this sword, the radius of light and its duration is doubled.
I think the "gift of a sword" concept links quite well into the Metal revelation and your idea of a shifting focus from paladin to oracle, as the "ideal" of light meets the "hard reality" of steel...
It's just a suggestion, though, of course. Regardless, I think it's a strong concept, and would work fine as a party healer, especially if you have some paladin backup.
I don't have Champions of Purity yet. I was considering the one from Faiths of Purity, but I like your suggestion even better.
Purity of Faith (Iomedae): Your soul is clean, and you are deeply committed to fulfilling your duties to the church. You take +1 trait bonus on all Will saves and a +1 bonus on all saving throws made against spells and effects originating from an outsider with the evil subtype.
Yup, I think this character is coming together nicely.
Oh, and what's your take on the Spiritual Weapon houserule of using the divine caster's spellcasting stat instead of Wisdom as in RAW? It's from the FAQ.
Just popping in to say I'm still here and am going wizard unless anyone objects. Everything else still undecided.
No objections here. That covers bases nicely.
Black Tom: Wizard
Gerald: Paladin/Sorcerer/Dragon Disciple
Ferret: skills-type
AinvarG: Human Oracle of Metal
Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have a party!
An arcanist with as-yet-unidentified additional skills to offer. A holy warrior with backup arcane power as well as backup healing. A divine healer that thinks she's a holy warrior. And a mysterious figure in the shadows. Yup, that's a party!
I will reskin my character tomorrow, focusing more on the paladin side. That'll change most things, so I'll post here when I update. Excited to be a lawful awful type for once!
Oh, and what's your take on the Spiritual Weapon houserule of using the divine caster's spellcasting stat instead of Wisdom as in RAW? It's from the FAQ.
I'm entirely onboard with it.
Also, would everybody let me know which campaign trait you're looking toward taking? Like I said, Ferret is going toward Chance Encounter, and I'm betting Tom will take Riftwarden Orphan (who doesn't like concentration bonuses?), but I'd like to hear what everybody's thinking. I do want to make clear, too, that the "mythic path associations" are just that: associations. Taking the trait does not lock you into the associated path, and you get whatever the mythic upgrade is for the trait regardless. Note that anyone who would take the base trait for the benefits it provides will be able to make use of the mythic upgrade, so the upgrade for Riftwarden Orphan likely wouldn't help a pure fighter, that character wouldn't want the +2 on concentration checks either. Anyone who *would* want the +2 would also be able to use the mythic upgrade to Riftwarden Orphan, whether or not they choose to become an archmage.
I think you sold Riftwarden Orphan on me. :) Abjurer looks nice and I think I can live without Necromancy and Enchantment. Please let me know if that's a bad idea.
I am probably thinking Champion right now, DM. But I need to check again to be sure.
Defense minded wizards are never a bad thing, BT!
Hmm... I had been assuming Touched by Divinity...
I AMA way from my books, so I might be wrong about which trait I'd been looking at. I'll check and report back tonight. My mythic rules book is still on the way...
I have no issues with an abjurer, and if you wind up massively regretting your opposition schools choices, don't forget that there's an archmage path ability that basically lets you buy them off. That said, I think those are perfectly fine choices for opposition schools.
Oh, I think it's totally worth having to spend two slots on False Life just to be able to shout "I BANISH THEE!" now and then. :)
I'm thinking of half-orc but I'll have to see how I can reconcile that with being a Riftwarden Orphan.
Oh, I think it's totally worth having to spend two slots on False Life just to be able to shout "I BANISH THEE!" now and then. :)
I'm thinking half-orc but I'll have to see how I can reconcile that with being a Riftwarden Orphan.
I AMA way from my books, so I might be wrong about which trait I'd been looking at. I'll check and report back tonight. My mythic rules book is still on the way...
Remember, like I said, pick any trait you want (because it fits your idea and/or you like the mechanics) and don't worry about the associated mythic path. If you want to go for a Champion, do it, and don't feel like you need to take the Stolen Fury trait if it doesn't suit you. Or vice versa, of course. Take Stolen Fury if it appeals - you can still go Guardian, or Marshal or whatever. (Paladins have a lot of good mythic path options. Dual Path seems like a gimme for them.)
Oh, I think it's totally worth having to spend two slots on False Life just to be able to shout "I BANISH THEE!" now and then. :)
I'm thinking half-orc but I'll have to see how I can reconcile that with being a Riftwarden Orphan.
Not to tip my hand too much, but someone who wants to banish demons would do very well indeed as a Riftwarden Orphan when you get mythic...
As for half-orc, we can make it work. I kinda like the idea of a full-orc Riftwarden - has a bit of Eberron flair I approve of...