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Shadows of the Past (Inactive)

Game Master sunshadow21

A Rise of the Runelords Game

Updated Combat Map


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Male Human Summoner 3 (Pavro HP 25/25; AC 18/12/16; F +2 R +3, W +2, Init +2, Perception -1) (Aressa HP 24/24; AC 22/12/20; F +4 R +5, W +0; Init +2; Perception +6)

Aressa circles around behind the goblin while Pavro enters the room and says,

"Drop your weapons and talk and we just might let you go - if you give us enough useful information that is."

Diplomacy: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (6) + 10 = 16
Bluff: 1d20 + 10 ⇒ (1) + 10 = 11


The goblin just cowers in the corner. While he hasn't dropped his weapon, you're pretty sure that even if he tried to use it at this point, he would fail miserably; most likely he's forgotten all about it being in his hand. "Please, Gut Throat will tell you all he knows; he no want to die." The following story is short enough. He and the now dead goblins in front of you (though you could still save 2 of them if you hurried and stabilized them as your next action) had been ordered to come to Sandpoint to raid as part of a larger assault. This small group of goblins was foolishly left unattended by any higher authority near this house as their group leader went to talk the biggun in charge of how to proceed. The grunts decided to hide in the house until the bigger, nastier goblins left and the grunts could proceed in peace. Well, they found a small cave, and decided that they rather liked this house and it's location, so they decided to make it their own, not even considering the fact that their claim might be contested.


Male Human Scholar 3 (HP 18/23, AC 17/16/11, F+1 R+5 W+6 (+1 vs divine), Init +2, Perc +9, +1 to find traps)

"And who is your group's leader?"

Cheliax

Male Human Cleric of Asmodeus (Evangelist) 3 AC 19/17/13 / HP 24 / F +6 R +4 W +8 / Init. +2 / Perc. +4)

Marcoul snorts under his breath at Pavro's obvious lie. If its lucky then his death will be a quick one.


"Dog Gnasher left to get instructions and we hid in the house; he never found us. Probably lost his head over it too; best thing that could happen to that pathetic ingrate. Gut Throat would never have accepted even minor command with bigguns pushing everyone around; no way, no how. That all Gut Throat know and care about." It becomes quite apparent quite quickly that getting much more information that what you already have is going to be impossible; he's simply a grunt and a deserter to boot.


Male Human Scholar 3 (HP 18/23, AC 17/16/11, F+1 R+5 W+6 (+1 vs divine), Init +2, Perc +9, +1 to find traps)

Severus turns to the rest of his companions.

"I think I'm through with this one. I doubt there's much more I could discover from him unless he is on a table in a lab. And that makes me think... are there female goblins?"

Cheliax

Male Human Cleric of Asmodeus (Evangelist) 3 AC 19/17/13 / HP 24 / F +6 R +4 W +8 / Init. +2 / Perc. +4)

Marcoul shrugs. Probably, can't say I ever gave much thought to the little runts. In Cheliax they would occasionally be imported, their faces painted white and used as bear-bait in the arena's. Not sure where they came from. So we are done? You have everything? Good! Casually raising his crossbow Marcoul fires a bolt into the pathetic creature before he turns towards Farmer Barrett. Are you alright man? You look wounded. Will you allow me to heal you?


Male Elf (Tower Elf) Magus 3 AC 16/12/14 / HP 30/30 / F +4 R +3 W +2 / Init. +2 / Perc. +0 Arcane Pool 2/5

Thandion looks at Marcoul and shakes his head "He could have been taken back and stood trail for his crimes. I don't doubt the result would have been the same, but... never mind you wouldn't understand."

With Marcoul looking after the farmer I'll check the goblins, he'll stabilize them and tie up any that can be saved.


Male Human Scholar 3 (HP 18/23, AC 17/16/11, F+1 R+5 W+6 (+1 vs divine), Init +2, Perc +9, +1 to find traps)

Severus raises a whitening eyebrow at the merciless kill.

"No, I don't suppose he would."


Male Human Summoner 3 (Pavro HP 25/25; AC 18/12/16; F +2 R +3, W +2, Init +2, Perception -1) (Aressa HP 24/24; AC 22/12/20; F +4 R +5, W +0; Init +2; Perception +6)

Pavro shrugs,

"Thandion nobody has ever been bothered about killing goblins around here, not before they invaded, and I very much doubt they will be now. I know you two have principles, but if your principles are going to cause nothing, but more fear and pain - for the goblin - and probably stir up a deal of the hatred you're not so fond of, maybe they need reviewing?"

He claps his hands,

"Now let's go and see how Mister Barett and his dog are doing," he moves through to the farmer in the other room smiling, "are you alright? Can you see to them Marcoul? Or should I head out and fetch Father Zantus?"


Male Elf (Tower Elf) Magus 3 AC 16/12/14 / HP 30/30 / F +4 R +3 W +2 / Init. +2 / Perc. +0 Arcane Pool 2/5

Thandion looks up grimly "I'm not doing this for the goblins. I'm doing it for the people they have wronged, so they can see justice. Maybe the goblins will hate me but as you said I'm not too bothered about them."


Male Human Summoner 3 (Pavro HP 25/25; AC 18/12/16; F +2 R +3, W +2, Init +2, Perception -1) (Aressa HP 24/24; AC 22/12/20; F +4 R +5, W +0; Init +2; Perception +6)

"I was not talking about goblin hate. But I'm not debating, I just do what feels right, most people know right from wrong if they are not kidding themselves.
Ethics are for people who haven't got ready access to liquor and girls."
Pavro replies cheerfully.


Farmer Barett is just looking at Thandion and Marcoul with a look of "what the heck are these idiots arguing about?", though he does seem to find the killing of the goblin so soon after he cooperated at least a bit distasteful, even if probably necessary. After getting patched up, he helps Thandion secure the prisoners, and grabs one of the bows, which is just about the right size for his son to use. About this time, the town guard shows up, with the rest of the Barett family in tow, and after getting a statement from everyone, carts the prisoner away, and after giving the PCs an appropriate reward, the family goes about the process of cleaning up their home and figuring out what to do with the small cave, which by now also stinks to high heaven.

Goblins and Sandpoint:
Since it seems keep coming up, a quick note on the interaction with the local goblins. Just because these folks don't like goblins, most of them recognize that at some level, they are still semi-intelligent creatures, and some things still can come across as a just a bit extreme (immediately killing a prisoner who voluntarily surrendered is still a place few people are willing to go, even if that prisoner is a goblin). Much of Marcoul's actions and preaching, and for that matter, some of Thandion's, are very close to, if not clearly in, that area that most people around here are just not quite comfortable with, although the stablemaster, Deverin Hosk, is well known to be rather passionate when it comes to the killing and torturing of goblins. He even has the body of a goblin chieftain pickled and displayed. That isn't to say that most people around here like their goblin neighbors, but one usually has to actively look to find folks who actively hate them; most of the goblins tend to not bother Sandpoint and the surrounding farms overly much unless stirred up, and the local history disinclines people from supporting too many views that lean toward extremism, especially on the matter of culture. They'll actively defend themselves from obvious and immediate threats, but most stop there; most simply have enough concerns elsewhere in their lives to worry about carrying about unnecessary hate. Both sides of the goblin/human divide have more or less settled into an uneasy peace, with raids of this scale being extremely rare; smaller infractions routinely occur, but even those tend to be sporadic in nature and intent.

This is not to say that I am trying to change how the PCs behave; I'm just pointing out the general view so that you can better understand how your actions may be perceived. Few townsfolk would stop something like Marcoul just did, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would condone it.

The PCs have the rest of the day to do with as they wish. I'll post a few things from late afternoon and supper tomorrow unless the PCs trigger something that requires fuller attention.


Thandion
At some point during the day, you find yourself summoned to the cathedral by Father Zantus. Upon arrival, he leads to his private office and bids you make yourself comfortable, "You seem troubled, my son. Your use of nonlethal methods, while noble, will, I fear, end up getting you killed later, if not sooner. What precisely weighs down your mind regarding the use of more normal weapons? I assure you, as Desna is my witness, that everything you say here will not be spoken of outside of these walls. I do not wish to stir up a past best left behind us, but rather to unburden your mind of past troubles so that you can more easily move beyond them."

Cheliax

Male Human Cleric of Asmodeus (Evangelist) 3 AC 19/17/13 / HP 24 / F +6 R +4 W +8 / Init. +2 / Perc. +4)

Your right Thandion, I don't understand. The only thing that will come about by brining the goblins back to Sandpoint to stand trial is that it will be a waste of resources and time. The law is quite clear. They knowingly attacked a man in his own domicile and attempted murder upon him. Leave them to bleed out. That is why I killed him. Someone around here must be willing to make the hard choices. To Marcoul's utter protests he watches as the Elf stabilizes the goblins. Sighing he turns back to farmer Barrett and finishes wrapping up the bandages. Change the wrappings once a day. If you continue to bleed in the next few hours send your wife back to Sandpoint and I will return to examine you further.

Back at Sandpoint
I feel like a ship without sails here Marcoul thinks to himself, walking along the streets. These people are so idealistic. It amazes me that they have managed to survive out here as long as they have Walking back into the front door of the Rusty Dragon Marcoul recalls the offer from the young noble to share drinks with him. I'll see if he was still interested for this evening.


Male Human Summoner 3 (Pavro HP 25/25; AC 18/12/16; F +2 R +3, W +2, Init +2, Perception -1) (Aressa HP 24/24; AC 22/12/20; F +4 R +5, W +0; Init +2; Perception +6)

Aressa gives Thandion a disgusted look,

"What cut your balls off elf? You save something so you can kill it? I could understand if you were arguing that they should not be killed, but you seem to be just wasting time."

Pavro sighs, giving Thandion an apologetic wince,

"Not really our time though 'Ress. If Thandion wants to help them let him, don't see the point myself, but they are going to end up dead, so it makes no difference."

Pavro heads back over the the Rusty Dragon and tells a tale that bears only a passing resemblance to the events in the Barett house,

"So there we were with goblins popping out from beneath every floorboard! Laughing and cackling as they came, and their skin was pale white like a slugs for this clan had been living in caves beneath the very town and only lead to the surface by the new surface goblins who had wriggled beneath the Barett house and found their way into the deep dark caves where light never touches!

But they had not counted upon Pavro Deverin, and Company! We arrived just as they were about to overwhelm poor farmer Barett and his faithful hound! And with sword, claw, and spell we fought them, until finally they wailed in terror and called forth their leader; a terrible fat goblin queen with white sightless eyes, whose flesh oozed like a slug's, and whose belly was as big as a keg of ale! She called forth dark magics, but I was able to dismiss them by bending all of my will against her fell power, and my companions pounced freed from the vile magics barring their path....

Or something, like that... Well, I might be exaggerating a smidgeon, there were a few goblins and we killed, or captured them," Pavro finishes, with a wink.

Perform Story Telling: 1d20 + 5 ⇒ (7) + 5 = 12


Male Human (Taldan) Paladin 3 (hp 31/31; AC 18, t 11, ff 17; Fort +7/ Ref +4/ Will +6; Init +1; Per +2)

Vors only makes one comment regarding the slain surrendered goblin.

"Had we let him go, he could've run back to his folk with tales of slaughter. Might have been enough to convince them not to try again. Sometimes the living can be more of a warning than the dead."

With that, Vors wipes his blade on a fallen body, sheathes his sword, and helps Farmer Barrett dispose of the corpses and clean the place up before heading back to town.

Later, at the inn, he idly listens to Pavro's story. In an aside to his sister, he says "To hear him tell it, it was almost exciting. I'm just glad no one was seriously hurt. These people sure do a lot of arguing though..."


Male Human Scholar 3 (HP 18/23, AC 17/16/11, F+1 R+5 W+6 (+1 vs divine), Init +2, Perc +9, +1 to find traps)

"There is some logic to that argument." Severus agrees with the paladin. "Needless deaths should mostly be avoided, in my humble opinion. Otherwise it just makes another mess to clean up."


M Tengu Gunslinger (Pistolero) 3 / HP 20/22, NLD 0, Grit 1/4, AC 17, Touch 15, Flat 12, F +2, R +7, W +5 / Init +6 (+4 if no grit left), Perc +13, low-light vision

If it were up to me, I'd have let the thing live, but what's done is done and it would not have been long for the world anyway. In future let's not kill our prisoners, no matter how foul. I am curious, though, Marcoul, why you spout your reverence for the law, yet you made yourself judge and executioner in the case of that goblin. Don't every manner of vigilantes and avengers say the same when they find themselves on trial? Isn't the law there precisely so that people cannot decide for themselves who lives and who dies? Is not the law stating criminals must stand trial as much the law as the one which states you are not to trespass into someone's home or kill civilians? I have no reverance for or adversion to the law, I am just puzzled at how your actions and your speech do not line up. Avian pipes up, eyes fixed on Marcoul not accusingly, but concernedly all the same. I never have met a follower of the Archfiend before, and while he seems decent enough, why would he consent to follow a being whose core was entirely evil, cruel, and heartless, even if the being did chain himself to the law? There have to be far more worthy gods of law to worship!


I'm loving this conversation. Feel free to keep it up.

Cheliax

Male Human Cleric of Asmodeus (Evangelist) 3 AC 19/17/13 / HP 24 / F +6 R +4 W +8 / Init. +2 / Perc. +4)

Sitting at the table in the Rusty Dragon Inn Marcoul nods along listening politely to Avian and his other companions. Avian, I can see how you would feel that my deeds and words do not seem to match, so allow me to give you a parable from my Lords word.

Marcoul allows the group to quiet before he begins.

Once there was a farmer and while he slept his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Marcoul let's a moment of silence follow before he sits back down. Friends, the Goblins are tares, they pollute our garden, like weeds among the wheat they are a blight upon the land. The people of this world, to a large degree understand and if not respect then at least acknowledge the Laws of the land. The goblins follow no law save their own. Might is right we saw this today. If we took the beast he would not more understand hus being judged anymore then the horse understands the sign hanging over the stable. The horse understands the whip. If we had sent him back to is tribe what would he have though? That we are soft, and that they can attack others and be able to escape for their crimes.

Marcoul pinches his nose. I believe and respect the law, however it is a social contract that goblins exsist outside of. If they were to acknowledge it then they would be ruled under it, they do not so its rules do not apply to them. Finishing Marcoul spreads his hands in a placating gesture. We could discuss the ethics and morality of law at length, and I would be happy to. In the end what is important to remember is that the beasts attempted to burn and murder the people of Sandpoint, and rights they may have had they forfeited. They were the aggressors.

Its so hard to walk the lin between LN and LE


One of the guards from the morning happens to be sitting close by, and asks out of curiosity, "And yet, once he surrendered, you acknowledged that this so called 'tare' as being capable of understanding that which you just claimed he was not, and by doing so, bound yourself to a contract that you proceeded to break almost immediately without provocation or cause on his end to justify it. Regardless of what you may have felt personally, surely you would not so little disregard for your companions' judgment or the accepted behavior regarding prisoners that you feel that you can simply judge a contract to be null and void simply because you disagree with it, which is precisely what you did this morning. Your group took a prisoner, and in doing so nullified the your tare analogy entirely; regardless of what the goblin may have thought, your group bound yourself to certain behaviors, expectations, and conditions. In your action, you broke those, and even if the creature did not understand, your fellow party members, Farmer Barett, and I would hope yourself recognized and understood that you failed to hold up your end of the contract with no better reason than fear of a future that might or might not have come to pass. Surely, your master of contracts would not be pleased with such rash reliance on emotions over hard facts."

By this time, a decent crowd had gathered about to see how this conversation developed, and many seemed to be clearly weighing the arguments of both sides with knowledgeable glances and looks. Aldern Foxglove has also stopped his lunch and is listening intently. It suddenly occurs to you that these are people who are quite capable of processing thoughts and ideas that go beyond day to day living, and that the town's past of having to reconcile multiple human cultures simply to get off of the ground may color their thinking in how they deal with their other neighbors, who, for the most part, have been content to leave the town and farmers who take precautions alone. There's a look on their faces that suggests that they've had this debate many times with each other and with other visitors, and even if the two sides are usually colonist and Shoanti instead of human and goblin, the arguments are not particularly dissimilar. All of you not from Sandpoint get your first real glimpse at the iron core that the facade of pleasantness and optimism covers. When pushed, whether it be by goblins, uppity outsiders who seem to think them simpletons, or some other external threat, they can push back.


Male Human Scholar 3 (HP 18/23, AC 17/16/11, F+1 R+5 W+6 (+1 vs divine), Init +2, Perc +9, +1 to find traps)

Severus wrinkles his nose. "The argument reeks of religion, which itself is often lacking in logic."

"No individual is forced to assimilate behaviors, expectations, and conditions he or she has no desire to, so long as the individual honors his own freedom, and that of others, his own property, and that of others, and his own life, and that of others. It is part of the responsibilities towards the self that I advocate, and the movement of freedom away from religious stipulations. Every life has the powers and abilities it requires to better its own conditions, whether this is asking for help or actively moving beyond the conditions it is currently in. This is the best philosophical argument for the allowance of life to continue, and in my mind little more need be said of it. Many folk bind themselves to religious and moral codes of conduct, when the true code of conduct lies in the improvement and betterment of the self, and in a way of others. For the freedoms and rights that individuals ascribe to should also be promoted in the lives of others."


Pavro:
As you watch this debate, you notice several people watching your reaction to it, and it occurs to you, that it is chiefly your family that allowed the town to resolve this kind of conflict in the past. That is why the Deverins have traditionally been the mayors and not one of the other founding families. Like or not, people see you as part of this tradition, and seem to be waiting to see how you handle it.


Male Human (Taldan) Paladin 3 (hp 31/31; AC 18, t 11, ff 17; Fort +7/ Ref +4/ Will +6; Init +1; Per +2)
Severus Aldenhyne wrote:

Severus wrinkles his nose. "The argument reeks of religion, which itself is often lacking in logic."

"No individual is forced to assimilate behaviors, expectations, and conditions he or she has no desire to, so long as the individual honors his own freedom, and that of others, his own property, and that of others, and his own life, and that of others. It is part of the responsibilities towards the self that I advocate, and the movement of freedom away from religious stipulations. Every life has the powers and abilities it requires to better its own conditions, whether this is asking for help or actively moving beyond the conditions it is currently in. This is the best philosophical argument for the allowance of life to continue, and in my mind little more need be said of it. Many folk bind themselves to religious and moral codes of conduct, when the true code of conduct lies in the improvement and betterment of the self, and in a way of others. For the freedoms and rights that individuals ascribe to should also be promoted in the lives of others."

"The self? One person a fine thing. Still, that's not much. One brick is a stumbling block, or a crude weapon. With enough bricks, you can build a wall that can withstand anything thrown at it. In the community is greater than any one person. Personal freedom is only gained from an accord of the community," Vors replies to Severic. Then, noticing the attention the conversation is receiving, seems a bit abashed. "Or at least, that's how I see it..."


M Tengu Gunslinger (Pistolero) 3 / HP 20/22, NLD 0, Grit 1/4, AC 17, Touch 15, Flat 12, F +2, R +7, W +5 / Init +6 (+4 if no grit left), Perc +13, low-light vision

Avian's eyes narrow in a thoughtful frown--though this expression is harder to read with his beak not adding as human lips would. Forgive me, as you are the Archfiend's servant and thus know his mysteries, but doesn't your parable prove my point rather than yours? Wouldn't the Archfiend be the master, and you the servant who asks if you may uproot the tares? Your master said clearly no, you can't. The parable even favors the keeping of the goblin alive. Only the Master, and not the master's servants, is fit to determine the time of judgement. This does not sound like the teaching of a fiend to me. Perhaps it was taken from a more noble god and taken into the Archfiend's service?

Avian takes a swig of ale from his tankard. And again, the law requires criminals to stand trial. This is one of the law's faults, to be sure, that justice is often delayed and even miscarried. One of the reasons I don't set much store by the law. One of the reasons I didn't stop you then and there. I was just surprised such a proponent of the law should so hastily dismiss it. I thought one mark of a law-abiding citizen was admitting your duties to those who don't admit theirs to you. That you play by the rules even while handling cheaters. Again, I have no quarrel with your actions. That goblin got what he ultimately would have. Even surrendering yourself does not pardon your crimes. I just think we should have let the bastard stand trial.

Avian finishes his tankard and mulls over Vors' words. True, true. The saying among my people is that it takes many feathers for a wing to fly. He then notices the people listening in as Vors had, and then squawks embarrassedly.


Male Human Summoner 3 (Pavro HP 25/25; AC 18/12/16; F +2 R +3, W +2, Init +2, Perception -1) (Aressa HP 24/24; AC 22/12/20; F +4 R +5, W +0; Init +2; Perception +6)

Pavro takes a wistful look at a wine bottle, but feeling the weight of expectations stands and speaks,

"My friends I think we can acknowledge that Master Marcoul has been a great servant to Sandpoint in his brief time with us, and I think we can forgive him this. Which is not to say we need concede the rightness of his actions. It is plain to me that Master Marcoul is a man who respects the law, and I am sure if we tell him that goblins are covered by our laws he will abide by such judgment. But are we truly prepared to say that?

Do our words here not reek of hypocrisy? Sandpoint's own Goblin Squash stables are surely a grisly gallery of mass murder if we truly want to accord goblins rights under the law - would you allow a man with hundreds of human ears hung on his wall to escape justice? Any man who uses the Goblin Squash Stables surely stands on the most treacherous of ground when he condemns Master Marcoul for not accepting a surrender.

Would I have killed the goblin? Yes. But not without consulting my fellows, but had such a discussion been had I would have voted for the goblin to be killed. Can you truly imagine trying to press claims of wrong doing to a goblin tribe? Would the roads be safer if Hosk and others were not permitted to kill goblins without bringing them to trail. I say they would not.

We are all sensitive to diversity and the strength that can be found from binding together different peoples, but goblins are not people. We are not talking about a goblin who wished to live with us in peace, we are talking about a creature who invaded our village, stole into a little boys bedroom and then tried to kill a family to take their home. We are not talking about a creature who surrendered to avoid bloodshed, we are talking about a creature that was overwhelmed and mastered by its own terror, it surrendered when it was plain it could do no more harm, not before.

So the question is do we afford goblins the rights of men, or do we continue to treat them as we do. I say that if a goblin comes to us in peace we can embrace that with caution. But until that day, for me goblins are a danger that warrants a hard response. They are not misunderstood, we understand them only too well! They are not striving for acceptance, they actively seek to harm and steal wherever they can! To say goblins have rights condemns a good many folk of this town, who I am proud to call neighbors and friends. So I ask you to think long and hard before decrying those who keep you and your children safe from these evil creatures.

And as for Master Marcoul, is it unreasonable for a man who comes to a town where goblin extremities are proudly displayed as trophies to suppose they are not accorded the right of men. I tell you it is not."

Aressa moves to Pavro side, raising her head haughtily and adding,

"Goblins are vile creatures that take any advantage offered them, if you show them kindness they will decry it as weakness, and you will suffer for it. If those creatures could they would burn Sandpoint to the ground and dance in the ashes."

Aressa takes 10 on diplomacy to aide another.
Pavro Diplomacy: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (11) + 12 = 23


One of the men listening responds to Pavro, "We would not suggest something that complex; that is not the point here. You took a prisoner, and in doing so, bound yourself to certain expectations, regardless of who that prisoner may have been. This man broke those expectations and has tried to justify them by claiming that he could be judge, jury, and executioner all by himself. That is what is at debate here; no one is trying to claim that goblins deserve to be on equal footing until they earn it the proper way, simply that when a man willingly binds himself to a social convention, regardless of who may be on the other side, that breaking that convention out of what can simply described as fear tarnishes not only that man, but weakens the entire social convention developed to sustain the community as a whole."


Male Human Scholar 3 (HP 18/23, AC 17/16/11, F+1 R+5 W+6 (+1 vs divine), Init +2, Perc +9, +1 to find traps)

"Or as they might say in Magnimar, a breaking of the social contract."

Severus strokes his beard thoughtfully.


Male Human Summoner 3 (Pavro HP 25/25; AC 18/12/16; F +2 R +3, W +2, Init +2, Perception -1) (Aressa HP 24/24; AC 22/12/20; F +4 R +5, W +0; Init +2; Perception +6)

Pavro snorts,

"Hogwash. We did not take it prisoner, it tried to surrender after seeing it was beaten and we questioned it we promised it nothing. I told it we might let it free if it gave us enough useful information - but guess what, I was lying to the murderous goblin that had just tried to murder an entire family to take their home. My point is that goblin don't have the same rights as people under the law, and enjoy no protections from it. That is entirely relevant to the debate at hand.

I would stay my hand in deference to my companions wishes, since they are risking their lives alongside me and deserve to have a say. But for those who are not involved in the fight to try to impose arbitrary rules, when even they admit the conclusion would be the same, well I'd as soon do the deed there and then and save the goblin and the rest of us time and suffering.

If the simple act of being a goblin is enough to warrant death - which it seems to be if we are not the rankest of hypocrites - then the only wrong done here is a man making a decision over the objections of his comrades who have equal right to it. Its an issue of etiquette not law.

More than that, consider the precedent we would be setting. Any goblin that surrenders must be brought for proper trail. So some ranger out in the wilds who has a goblin surrender to them must either let it go, or drag it back to Sandpoint. Ridiculous. If there was such a law I would ignore it, because it would be sheer foolishness, and I'm convinced most of the folk who actually do keep goblin numbers down would do the same thing to.

We should not be seeking to tie the hands of those who defend this town. We should be seeking to end the menace that just assaulted it. And to say that negating rights for a goblin will lead to negating rights for other sentient humanoids is a fallacy, a slippery slope fallacy to be precise, there is no necessity for one position to lead to the other.

Now you may go out and take as many goblins prisoner as you like, be my guest! But while I'm risking my life I'll not be restricted by such silliness. These are not innocent people being persecuted, these are malicious monsters that harry us, steal from our trash and endanger our children! If we could rid Varisia of these murderous little miscreants we would be saving countless lives. I do not think I could do such a thing were it in my power, but nor could I condemn someone who did.

So I ask you citizens of Sandpoint do we wish to endanger the lives of those who protect us? Do we wish to afford goblins rights they clearly have no intention of extending in return. Or should we encourage brave souls to seek out and slay these monsters that have so recently cavorted through our streets seeking blood and mayhem? I say we laud our heroes rather than hamstring them!"

Aressa laughs,

"All I'm hearing is make sure you slit their throats before they surrender. A law is only useful if its enforcable, and to my mind most of those it applies to will cheerfully ignore it - I know I will."

Aressa takes 10 to aide another.
Pavro Dilpomacy: 1d20 + 12 ⇒ (18) + 12 = 30


No one says anything further of note, and the crowd heads back to work, but it is clear that you really haven't convinced most of them. They clearly don't like Pavro's lying about accepting the surrender anymore than they do Marcoul's killing a prisoner. Goblin or not, lying and killing prisoners is not seen as helping the greater cause; the ends does not justify the means in this case. Some are shaking their head and commenting the young lad still has much to learn if he hopes to follow in his father's footsteps. Those that agree that goblins are worthless, period, are griping that you should have tortured the poor creature more, or at least brought him to Hosk so that the job could have been done properly. In short, while no one is particularly upset about the whole thing, no one thinks that you couldn't have done better.

Sorry, I don't care how good a diplomacy you roll; the comment about lying about accepting his surrender shot you in the foot. Still, they don't dislike you; they just think you are still young and have much to learn about community and not degrading yourself to the enemy's level.


A few individual scenes that need to be covered at this point

Pavro
You are summoned by your aunt, who lays into you for behaving like one of the sleazeball Scarnetti. Goblin or not, your family has a reputation to uphold, and she will not stand by while you publicly weaken it, even accidentally through inexperience. Trying to start a general war against the goblins when it is clear that the goblins are not the problem as much as this outside threat using them is equally unacceptable, however detestable the goblins may be; it would drain the town of too many resources without giving anything of actual value in return.

Thandion
See the summons from Father Zantus above.

Vors
At some point during the afternoon, your sister pulls you aside; she has absolutely bloomed in the time she's been in Sandpoint. Goblin raid or not, she is clearly enjoying herself, and finding herself quite comfortable with the surroundings here. "If you are going to be spending all of your time doing other things here in Sandpoint, perhaps it would be best if I was not constantly having to bother you for everything. Several folks have suggested that I would make an excellent helper in their household or business, including Ameiko, Turch Sterglus at the fish market, Hannah Velerin, and Father Alarud (the local priest of Abadar serving at the cathedral). I'm sure that I would be of much more use to both of us if such an offer were to be accepted; there is little enough left for either of us back at the grange with mom and pop gone, and you cannot be around to watch over me at all times now that you're a big hero and all."


Male Human (Taldan) Paladin 3 (hp 31/31; AC 18, t 11, ff 17; Fort +7/ Ref +4/ Will +6; Init +1; Per +2)

Vors lisens to Evelina and smiles. "I don't know about the hero part, just doing what I can. Well, if we're to make Sandpoint our new home I suppose it's only right you get settled in and do your part. Who would you be most comfortable working for?"


I apologize if I came across over harshly in that debate as far as the NPC reaction. I simply played it according to the specific circumstances of the scene. Other circumstances, such as one of the other taverns, or if it had been earlier when more of the crowd was still visitors, would most certainly have garnered different results. For every one annoyed by the stances posited, there will be someone pleased by them when they hear them; you just have to give them time to react to it or seek them out yourself to notice it.


Vors
"I don't know; working at the Rusty Dragon would be interesting, but I'm not sure there's much of a future in it. Father Alarud and Madam Velerin are both nice, but I'm not much of the priest or healer type. The fish market, however, could be interesting; Turch is a nice man whose life could use a woman's touch now and then, and I understand that his sons are smart, successful, and handsome."

Pavro
As your aunt finishes, she pauses, "Now, before you go, I want to make one thing perfectly clear. You are still family, no matter how I feel about your individual actions; should anyone but I or your cousins dare to besmirch your name too loudly, you can forward them to me, and I will inform of their proper place in the discussion just as I have informed you of yours." With that, she pulls your father's sword down from the fireplace, "He would have given this to you, and I can do no less. Wear it well, and always remember where you came from, no matter what fate has in store for you." You now have a masterwork blade (shortsword, longsword, rapier, whatever you want, and you are proficient in it as through the heirloom weapon feat if you were not already.


Marcoul
Walking about town in the afternoon, several realizations come to you; whether they are from simply being here for a while, or stem from the earlier debate, they are interesting.
1) As you get to know what to look for, you realize that not all folks are as united as they may appear to outsiders; there are divisions, even deep divisions, that flare up from time to time. Most outsiders barely notice them, but as you watch and study them, you come to understand that to fully appreciate what these people think and are capable of is going to take time and enough humility to become part of them rather than simply remaining an outside preacher seeking his own goals.
2) Despite these differences, the unity that most outsiders see is very real. Somehow, these folks have learned to bridge their differences sufficiently to live and work beside each other without an overly abundant amount of malice or distrust; there are exceptions, but they truly are exceptions, not the rule.
3) If you wish to truly see the whole town, you will need to interact with a wider range of the townsfolk throughout all of their taverns and activities, not just the small number you've dealt with thus far.
4)Despite their obvious reluctance to openly embrace your preaching, you are treated with due respect by all but a small handful of those you meet. You never feel any discomfort as you walk about, though you are pretty sure that there are still some neighborhoods that would require additional precautions and safety measures, as there is in every settlement of decent size.


Male Human (Taldan) Paladin 3 (hp 31/31; AC 18, t 11, ff 17; Fort +7/ Ref +4/ Will +6; Init +1; Per +2)

"Sounds like the fish market might be the way to go then," says Vors. "We should go over later and have a talk with Turch.If'n you decide it's to yer liking, we'll see if an arrangement can be made. If not, we'll look at the other options."


Male Human Summoner 3 (Pavro HP 25/25; AC 18/12/16; F +2 R +3, W +2, Init +2, Perception -1) (Aressa HP 24/24; AC 22/12/20; F +4 R +5, W +0; Init +2; Perception +6)

Pavro adopts his familiar, to his Aunt, put upon slouch, a pose which has served him well through many a lecture,

"I'm not trying to start a war, I'm just saying that just because a goblin gives up shouldn't mean people are forced to accept its surrender. You used to be an adventurer, can you imagine having to cart every goblin around that begged for its life, until you could find some lawful authority? I don't know why everyone wants my opinion anyway, I'm not the Mayor, I'm a loveable rogue."

When she produces the blade, he straightens a little wide eyed,

"My fathers? I'm... I'm not much use with a blade, shouldn't... I, uh, thank you Aunt Kendra. Look, I'm thinking about seeing if my new friends want to join me in adventuring, I love Sand Point, but I'm never going to settle down and get respectable like you and mother want. That's just not me, and 'Ress would be bored stupid if I got a proper job, so would I. I want to see the world, or at least something more of it. Maybe see if those new friends of mine are willing to join me... I hope you can understand that,"

He takes the dagger reverently, and once he is out of his Aunt's sight carefully replaces the cheap dagger in his boot with his father's blade.

"You are an ungrateful arse, you know that right Pavro?" Aressa says fondly, regarding her friend as he contemplates the dagger,

"I know 'Ress, I know. But they want the impossible, imagine me being given anything important to do. I've seen how hard Aunt Kendra works, I'd never manage that, I'd get distracted by wine or breasts, preferably wine and breasts, better for everyone if I go my own way."

After a few moments of contemplation he sets off to bother Ameiko, who advises him to purchase a wrist sheath so he can have ready access to the blade when he needs it, while still keeping his hands free most of the time. After trying out those on offer he elects to go for the spring mounted version because, and buys one for each arm.

Pavro will purchase 2 Spring Loaded Wrist Sheaths for a total of 10gp if there are no issues with availability.


Male Elf (Tower Elf) Magus 3 AC 16/12/14 / HP 30/30 / F +4 R +3 W +2 / Init. +2 / Perc. +0 Arcane Pool 2/5

Thandion misses the arguement at the Rusty Dragon having dissappeared to the cathedral.

The Voice of Wisdom wrote:

Thandion

At some point during the day, you find yourself summoned to the cathedral by Father Zantus. Upon arrival, he leads to his private office and bids you make yourself comfortable, "You seem troubled, my son. Your use of nonlethal methods, while noble, will, I fear, end up getting you killed later, if not sooner. What precisely weighs down your mind regarding the use of more normal weapons? I assure you, as Desna is my witness, that everything you say here will not be spoken of outside of these walls. I do not wish to stir up a past best left behind us, but rather to unburden your mind of past troubles so that you can more easily move beyond them."

Thandion looks shocked Father Zantus's request. He doesn't know what he asks. If he did he would never ask this.

Thandion speaks sadly "Father, I can not tell you all that you wish and don't want to lie to you by claiming to."

He sits and after a pause he continues "You can't imagine it, I think understand the chopper too well. When he killed my Mary the anger took me, his anger. Since that moment I've had the ability to do what he did" looking up into the eyes of the Father "and it scares me beyond words. I thought I had beaten it, but when I came back the anger grew again in me. There something about this place, something pushing me towards a cliff, but I belong here and owe Sandpoint my life if need be. Avian, the birdman, says giants are coming to destroy Sandpoint, if they do they do so over my body."

"If the use of the sap kills me, then that is better than I killed with the sword. However I don't think it is likely I have found it be quite easy to use and effective. I have heard their are magics that can make a sword subdue an opponent without killing them or losing its effectiveness. If I can save enough money I'll search out someone who can enchant a sword for me but until then the sap is good weapon."


Male Human Scholar 3 (HP 18/23, AC 17/16/11, F+1 R+5 W+6 (+1 vs divine), Init +2, Perc +9, +1 to find traps)

Severus returns to his studies. The moral debate regarding the goblin was an interesting one, but not as interesting as the ancient Thassilonian Empire.

I think I read somewhere that Pathfinder encounters are spread out to five per level. So we have one or two more before we level I think. Not sure if the DM is using a different method.


You're getting close; I will probably end up doing what I did with the last group. After the next encounter, there will be some final bits of rping in town where I'll go ahead and have you level before you dive into the next major section of the adventure. Speaking of which, I will get the post to move the scene forward a bit tomorrow some time; I just want to give you guys time to figure out how you plan on handling party differences going forward without the DM having to come hard like I did this time.


Pavro
Before you leave, she has one last thing to say, "If you wish to try your hand at adventuring, you have my blessing, but understand this. While you are in Sandpoint, you are still a scion of one of the leading families, no matter how much you try to shrug it off. Also, just because you see things one way, others may not reach the same conclusions; whatever you and your friend thought happened this morning, others apparently thought differently, and you cannot afford to simply brush their reactions aside because you disagree with them. Your friend, especially, cannot afford to disregard the views of others if he wishes to win them over to his faith; you don't have to agree with all of them, and you can even find them foolish, but you cannot simply disregard and ignore them either."

Vors
You are able to send off a note to the fish market, and get a prompt reply that he would be more than happy to meet with you tomorrow afternoon and make the appropriate arrangements.

Thandion
Father Zantus listens quietly, "So you find the power of life or death to be a frightening one; that is good, but you must learn how to manage it, lest it manage you. In a real battle, the sap will not be sufficient, and while you may not view your death as problematic, those who are relying on you to have their back may view otherwise. We are a community and we stand or fall together; you are just one part of a greater whole. Look to your friends for the strength and understanding you need to manage your fears and limitations; in turn, you will better help them understand their own. Not using the sword does not resolve the problem, because the problem lies within yourself, not the sword. I am not saying never use the sap, but understand that a time will come when the sword will be the more appropriate tool, and that you need to be ready to use it when that time comes, not just for your sake, but for the sake of your comrades."

Cheliax

Male Human Cleric of Asmodeus (Evangelist) 3 AC 19/17/13 / HP 24 / F +6 R +4 W +8 / Init. +2 / Perc. +4)

It seems clear to me now Thinks Marcoul as he walks along the dusty streets of Sandpoint. This whole issue with how I treated the Goblin is merely symbolic of the internal difference within Sandpoint itself. If I am ever going to establish a chapel here, I will have to enmesh myself with all of the people and earn their trust. Sighing Marcoul periodically stop in visit several other locations around town, learning who the people are, and making polite small talk, if for no other reason than to debunk any rumors about the "evil devil worshiping priest" It really would have been easier to find some legal loophole that would allow the church to plant roots here regardless. I wonder if the Arche-Lictor gave me this assignment to just to get me away from whatever scheme he was planning at the time. Taking a deep breath Marcoul puts a welcome smile as he begins the arduous task easing his way into the trust of the villagers.

Later that Night
Marcoul finishes putting the wax seals upon each of the neatly written letters. Heading down to the first floor of the Rusty Dragon. He heads upto the bar and politely asks one if he could have several letters delivered around town. Scrawled on the notes read the following names: Pavro Deverin, Thandion, Severus Aldenhyne, Vors Malcroft and Avian Fletcher. Marcoul then requests for a private dining room to be arranged and dinner to be provides once all of Marcoul's guests have arrived. Giving the runner a few coppers for a tip, Marcoul sends the boy to scurry off as the sun begins to set.

Letter:

My Associates,

I have arranged for a private dinner to be held tonight at the Rusty Dragon. I don't know what the future holds for us, but in the last 24 hours the people of Sandpoint have come to look to us for protection, and we could do great good for this town, but first certain matters need to be discussed and understandings need to be made.

-Marcoul Antonius Jeggare III


Male Human Summoner 3 (Pavro HP 25/25; AC 18/12/16; F +2 R +3, W +2, Init +2, Perception -1) (Aressa HP 24/24; AC 22/12/20; F +4 R +5, W +0; Init +2; Perception +6)

Pavro arrives at The Rusty Dragon to show off his new dagger to Ameiko, who gives him the letter - which he opens with his dagger.

"Ah, we're invited to dinner 'Ress, I suspect its a strategy meeting. But its a rare gathering Pavro Deverin cannot turn into a party! With my trusty sidekick, lots of alcohol."

Once the others arrive he is already on the farside of tipsy, and everyone in The Rusty Dragon has seen his new dagger. Aressa is looking put upon, and approaches some of the local women folk for some sensible conversation - which translates to gentile mockery of the youngest Deverin.

When the other party members arrive Pavro greets them with a grin,

"I told my Aunt I am going adventuring! And she gave me this dagger, it was my father's - never really knew him, snake bite when I was tiny. But I think we should all stick together we make a good team! What was I saying? Oh yes, are we going to this meeting now?"


Male Human Scholar 3 (HP 18/23, AC 17/16/11, F+1 R+5 W+6 (+1 vs divine), Init +2, Perc +9, +1 to find traps)

Severus almost leaves the letter unopened, so engrossed he is with his books, but finally reads the letter before the mentioned hour and makes preparations to join his comrades-at-arms.


M Tengu Gunslinger (Pistolero) 3 / HP 20/22, NLD 0, Grit 1/4, AC 17, Touch 15, Flat 12, F +2, R +7, W +5 / Init +6 (+4 if no grit left), Perc +13, low-light vision

Avian was just finishing his daily ritual of cleaning and polishing his pistol when the messenger knocks at his door. Opening the door, he takes the scroll from the boy, who is clearly torn between admiration of one of the town's latest heroes and terror at the giant bird face looking down at him. Avian thanks him and offers a copper in gratitude. The boy mumbles his thanks and scampers off, relieved to be out of the bird man's sight.

Avian reads the letter and then tucks it into a pocket. What do you reckon, Amadeus? Should we go with these gentlemen and go on an adventure? Probably be good for me to learn to work with a group rather than being the solo slayer of minor ghouls. Alright, best come with me Amadeus. With that, Avian lowers his hood and leaves his room to head for dinner with the others.


Male Elf (Tower Elf) Magus 3 AC 16/12/14 / HP 30/30 / F +4 R +3 W +2 / Init. +2 / Perc. +0 Arcane Pool 2/5

"Perhaps you are right, Father, I cannot currently think of situation that I the advantages of the sword out way the dangers of using one. The fact I cannot think one does not mean it doesn't exist and you are right I am be endangering other at that time. I think I may have a solution that will satisfy both my and your concerns. May I ask Father was this your concern or is Belor going behind my back?" he finishes with a wry smile. Don't want to hold up story so we can finish this in spoilers or something

Later
Thandion heads back to the Rusty dragon there are certainly some understanding that need to be made.

Just before arriving he sees Avian heading the say way and rushes a bit to catchup. "Avian, if could hold up for a moment. I was wandering if I could ask a couple of favours. Firstly you mentioned that you could help train us to fight giants and since then we seem to have been very distracted, if nothing else gets into the way tomorrow would you free to start that training?" Thandion says almost more as an excuse to stop Avian, his face then looks serious "And secondly could you carry a long sword for me in case I need it?


Thandion:
"There are a number of folks concerned about how you have been doing these past few years. Mary may no longer be in this world, but her family still sees you as part of their own."


Male Elf (Tower Elf) Magus 3 AC 16/12/14 / HP 30/30 / F +4 R +3 W +2 / Init. +2 / Perc. +0 Arcane Pool 2/5

[spoile=GM]"I don't know if I bare to see them, I failed them when I failed Mary. They should hate me after I swore to protect her.[/spoiler]


Thandion:
"Just don't forget that they are there, and they suffer the same pain as you. I cannot make you see them, nor would I allow anyone to try, but I would ask you remember that we are a community, and the pain you feel was felt by all of us. You don't have to share your personal story with everyone, but find those that you trust, and share what you can as you can. Above all else, never forget that you don't have to go through your pain alone; that is what the community is for; that is why Sandpoint is able to exist at all. When you are ready, her family will be there; they aren't going anywhere."

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