It's 7 points behind the initial high bid for Strength. That's just silly.
But like I said, it may just be different bidding strategies. It'll go up. Lots of people have points to burn. 50+ points in Psyche leaves plenty of room for Trump. Even more for Advanced Pattern or Sorcery.
Not at all; we wouldn't want anyone's plans to be ruined by having to take Bad Stuff after creation to account for their accidental over-spending. Best to just let it go as-is, I say!
Also, Amber rank leaves us at exactly equal to the common Amberite, but just 1 point makes us far superior, ya? So unless we're selling down or desperately need 1 point, there's no reason for James and I not to spend 1pt on Rank 6.5 in Strength and Warfare respectively, even though we'd still be last?
Let's look at the bids themselves.
1
3
5
7
13
23
25
Prime numbers, except for the first and the last, is this significant?
Is there a Pattern?
23 is the 9th prime.
That is, 3 x 3 or 2-3's, which takes us full circle back to 23.
25 is 5 x 5; can two 5's, separated, stand in Balance? Or will they opposed each other, and cancel out?
Should I alter the symmetry of 23?
Would this Trump fate?
27 is not Prime, but it adds a 3rd 3. Three 3's united, facing all comers, back to back to back.
Hmmm.
27 calls to me. I must bid 27.
It is done.
Now that was interesting. A lot of people talking about their surprise Psyche wasn't going higher, but nobody bidding. Speaking of which, allow me to add my (completely trustworthy) thoughts to the debate.
Contrary to some folks' opinions (lies though they may be), Psyche may be, in many ways, the most powerful Attribute. After all, there has long been debate over whether Fiona or Brand was First in Psyche in the days of the Patternfall War, and Brand nearly brought down Amber itself in his madness. Why is this, you ask?
To use Warfare to its utmost, you must be constantly vigilant: yes, you might have the ability to master all weapons ever known, or to move accurately as if there might be an invisible opponent waiting, but for many, this is simply an exhausting way to live. Eternal alertness can grate on even the most patient of minds.
To properly use Strength's potential, one must throw one's self into danger. Up close and personal is Strength's...well, strength, and many are reluctant to force a clash that by its nature puts you into immediate risk.
Psyche, though, allows you utter freedom. Strike when and where you choose, from the safety of your stronghold or the front lines, through your summoned agents or the power of your sorcery - the choice is yours. This is why Items of Power that convey Psychic Barriers are often popular with those whose minds can't take the heat; but if you arrogantly believe that such a coward's route will protect you completely from the deviousness of a mind that has claimed Dominance in Psyche, you may find yourself vastly mistaken.
31 is a prime as is its reverse 13 which happens to be both my favorite number and the number of levels of heaven. Eztil bids 31
Contrary to the opinion above, which may or may not possess any level of trustworthiness, I still feel Psyche is a far less valuable stat. Especially relative to Endurance, which we haven't even gotten to yet.
Nevertheless, I could stand to put a couple more points in...so I'll bid 30.
EDIT: Ninja'd, 33.
For the first time, we seem to have a three-way battle for an Attribute. Might I recommend another of you become involved as well? Chaney or Nikolas, holding two Dominant positions is a ridiculous advantage, and even simply standing high in two is not to be discounted; you might want to get in to secure a decent Rank before the bidding gets too high. Roy or Marjana, at the moment you two are very nearly exactly equal to one another in an all-out contest - can you let that stand? Mental superiority could be the final advantage you need to force the other to support your endeavors...
In for a penny ... In for 53
In for a penny ... In for 53
Are you in for 56? You'll have to be to beat me, with my bid of 55.
And this is why I was surprised how low it started, but still not jumping in. No way I had enough points left to compete for it. Distant fourth isn't worth a lot.
That's an official "I'm out", by the way. Sticking with my initial bid.
I see that Alric has accounted for 65 points with the sum of his bids, while Eztil only 55.
I would expect Eztil could counter-bid easily.
As for me, I am young and surrounded by my Elders, perhaps I am done.
Perhaps.
I can indeed 60
This is more what I expected. Call me content. My bid will stand.
You can have it...unless one of the others chime in.
I'll stand at 55.
Roy's bid will also stand. I really don't have the points to spend to try and bid up now. And while I'm not thrilled to be in the back of the pack for Psyche, it's not hugely important.
Well, that escalated quickly. Sudden jump up to 60 points in the lead, with Nikolas, Roy, Alric and Marjana officially pulling away from the race.
James? The ever-tactical Chaney?
All those 3's from 27 nets me 3rd in the 3rd auction?
Symmetry demands I stand.
No further bid.
And then there were two.
Ah, this is more of what I was expecting from the masters of mind and magic. And it does my heart glad to finally see cousin Etzil emerge from the shadows to reveal himself as such. Of course I had my suspicions what with him holding onto slim showings in the Arts Physical.
Would that I could emerge with such a surprisingly powerful mind of mine own. After all, I have fought demons and other purveyors of the arcane. But, alas, in order to best such champions in such a contest, I would have to sell mine own health short, or else temp the universe into delivering unto me dreadful hatred for exceeding mine grasp.
No bid. I am happiest to provide the lower plateau one must leap from to challenge these bravest and boldest of souls.
in other words....
"You &^^%^%s can have it, but you better think twice before using it towards harming me and mine,"
There we have it! The final ranks for Psyche are:
7th: Roy, 3
6th: Nikolas, 5
5th: Marjana, 7
4th: Chaney, 13
3rd: James, 27
2nd: Alric, 55
And first in Psyche, the Sorcerer Supreme: Eztil, with 60 points.
No mysteries left here, folks, so let's move right on into the secret bids for Endurance!
Where other Attributes are horsepower, Endurance is the fuel tank, and it will never matter how much power you've got under the hood if you can't keep the engine roaring. Warfare may be swift as the wind, Strength unmatched in power, Psyche a vault of arcane might...but the last man standing is always the First in Endurance.
This is quite fun; I can see how it would be an absolute blast in a home game.
I know, right? This part is better served in person. I personally think that a lot of the rest of it will work better in PbP format (this game gets to be my guinea pig for that theory), since the game often calls for a lot of secrecy and epic tale-weaving that's harder to do in person without spending a lot of downtime. But the auction is always a blast face to face.
I don't know. This has been fun. Brags, bravado, lies, insults, this has had everything a good auction needs. Don't sell it short.
Oh, don't get me wrong, this is a kick - but believe me, there is very little as satisfying as the look on a friend's face when you suddenly outbid them out of nowhere for their favorite Attribute.
Freudian Slip?
Nor do I, by the appearances presented to the ignorant. ;[
Was posting from my phone all day while on a family trip.
Ah, this is more of what I was expecting from the masters of mind and magic. And it does my heart glad to finally see cousin Etzil emerge from the shadows to reveal himself as such. Of course I had my suspicions what with him holding onto slim showings in the Arts Physical.
I had intended to be secretive all the way through... but I couldn't let it go so low. Someone had to defend Psyche's honor ;) Plus James' comments about prime numbers was exactly along the lines of what I was thinking on bidding and got me all riled up. Once in, I was no longer in the shadows and had to run with it.
But as my wife reminded me "the auction is where character concepts get destroyed or made". Will have to make some sacrifices.
(...)Will have to make some sacrifices.
You mean, another 1? ;)
Nah, pup, he means blood sacrifices.
I have no idea what you are talking about Alric ;)
You should see my shopping list though. There are sacrifices! :)
Oh I believe you; I had to stop in the middle there and make a table before I kept bidding, otherwise I had no idea how many points I needed to save to buy things!
Glad I did, too; Viscount'd have too much fun with Bad Stuff!
Nah, pup, he means blood sacrifices.
Just because someone is a blood mage, carries an obsidian prismatic dagger, has a mesoamerican background, and their name means blood in nahuatl doesn't mean he has ever been involved in sacrifices.
Slander sir!
... doesn't mean he hasn't been involved though.
But considering how many people our relatives have led through shadow to be slaughtered fighting wars, there isn't a whole lot of moral ground to stand on in the castle. :)
Looking forward to talking mystic shop with you Alric.
Each new attribute means a new thing or three crossed off my lists as strategy changes based on my best guess as to what people will do. This format of bidding gives me too much time think about things :)
Nah, pup, he means blood sacrifices.Just because someone is a blood mage, carries an obsidian prismatic dagger, has a mesoamerican background, and their name means blood in nahuatl doesn't mean he has ever been involved in sacrifices.
Slander sir!
... doesn't mean he hasn't been involved though.
Just means he's very concerned about keeping the Sun rising each morning.
But considering how many people our relatives have led through shadow to be slaughtered fighting wars, there isn't a whole lot of moral ground to stand on in the castle. :)
Good thing I always win at king of the hill, then. I can stand on narrow ground.
But morality, like Shadow, is mutable.
Absolutely ^^
The Strength auction changed my concept (mechanically any way) completely. I almost jumped into Psych, but Eztil jumped to the 50s before I hit send.
Can I ask a serious question without our pseudo-combativeness getting in the way?
It goes back to the conversations y'all were having about the armor and sword I didn't understand at the time. Now that I've found a good version of the rules, I see that you really weren't just making up colorful euphemisms, and for 4ish points each, I really can buy invulnerable armor and a sword that cuts through anything. I think your discussion (because I'm too lazy to go back a page) was more philosophical than practical, but I should ask.
I've got 60 points left, possibly more if I sell down Warfare. Do I have to buy a heap of powerful items now, because if I don't, three posts into the Gameplay, Chaney's going to throw a dagger from 10 miles away and kill me?
I guess the underlying question really is, how focused are we on PvP? Should I expect at all times that anyone with a higher rank than me is going to try to kill me? At least in d20 games, PCs start at relatively the same power level, and it's all random anyway, so I'm not as worried about my party just going rogue as I am here. If I don't win this last auction, I'm not Dominant in anything. So, if my fears are correct, the best thing for me to do is go hide forever until someone else kills you all. That doesn't seem like much of an RPG.
AFTERTHOUGHT: The auction really messed with my head, yo.
Can I ask a serious question without our pseudo-combativeness getting in the way?
It goes back to the conversations y'all were having about the armor and sword I didn't understand at the time. Now that I've found a good version of the rules, I see that you really weren't just making up colorful euphemisms, and for 4ish points each, I really can buy invulnerable armor and a sword that cuts through anything. I think your discussion (because I'm too lazy to go back a page) was more philosophical than practical, but I should ask.
I've got 60 points left, possibly more if I sell down Warfare. Do I have to buy a heap of powerful items now, because if I don't, three posts into the Gameplay, Chaney's going to throw a dagger from 10 miles away and kill me?
I guess the underlying question really is, how focused are we on PvP? Should I expect at all times that anyone with a higher rank than me is going to try to kill me? At least in d20 games, PCs start at relatively the same power level, and it's all random anyway, so I'm not as worried about my party just going rogue as I am here. If I don't win this last auction, I'm not Dominant in anything. So, if my fears are correct, the best thing for me to do is go hide forever until someone else kills you all. That doesn't seem like much of an RPG.
It varies from game to game, so that's something of a question only for the game master.
The usual answer though is that one way or the other we're family and as much as we might be at odds, open murderous conflict is frowned upon. Sort of broad mutually assured destruction. Unless you've proved yourself an obvious danger to us all, Chaney suddenly killing you will be seen as a sign he's a dangerous lunatic and the survivors will work together to take him down. He knows this, so he won't start it. Beyond us, there are also the Elders to consider. King Random won't look kindly on his powerful and useful kin slaughtering each other and many of us have the interest of at least one of the older generation.Competition tends to be subtler than that. Jockeying for position and influence. Making your rivals look bad. That kind of thing.
If it comes down to an actual Throne War, there will be outright murder and blood in the streets, but there will have been time to forge alliances and protections before then.
Edit: That's part of the purpose of the auction. Set up rivalries and make you worry about each other in a way just buying stats at point values doesn't.
And that concern is why Marjana has spent a couple centuries in Shadow, far from any threat from kin. She's finally confident enough to let the rest of you know she exists. We'll see if that confidence is misplaced.
Alric, I wouldn't worry about instant death.
One of the things not discussed quite yet is the Blood Curse. It kind of disincentivises killing each other. Basically, when we die (not absolutely necessary, but most common), we can curse anyone - again usually the one who killed us.
Then truly horrible things happen to the victim. The GM has carte blanche to make their characters life a living hell - basically the equivalent of 10 points bad stuff.
So killing you outright is a bad option. Acting against your interests, however. . .
As for Nikolas, he's not intended to be a psychopath, most Amberites aren't. We won't kill you for sport, we need a reason.
I think what you really have as far as PvP comes down to two things: a) conflicts of personality, where one character simply doesn't like another, and b) conflict of purpose, where one character's goals conflict with another. Traditionally in Amber, actual attempts to kill another Amberite mostly only happen when the two cases intersect.
There are exceptions, of course, and defense of Amber as a whole generally overrides either situation.
In the books, one of the reasons one would not seek the death of a relative one considers an enemy is the death curse, where a dying Amberite can curse his/her killer.
Truthfully, even without being dominant in an attribute, you have intrinsic value as a being of power, and would be better served forging alliances than hiding. When you can call upon an ally of power, their strength is added to yours. When you hide away, only your own strengths and weaknesses are available.
Thanks, I appreciate the responses.
It honestly didn't occur to me at all until I got into the bidding on Psyche. I wasn't really planning on carrying it as far as I did, but coming in first at opening changed the game for me; then I started to worry, that, having lost that and being, at best, 3.5 in Warfare, I would just immediately die.
I'm glad that isn't the case!
Thanks, I appreciate the responses.
It honestly didn't occur to me at all until I got into the bidding on Psyche. I wasn't really planning on carrying it as far as I did, but coming in first at opening changed the game for me; then I started to worry, that, having lost that and being, at best, 3.5 in Warfare, I would just immediately die.
I'm glad that isn't the case!
Honestly, as 2nd in Psyche, you're probably more of a threat than most of us. Depending on where you go for Powers, there are ways you can attack the rest of us that we can't easily counter. Marjana could gut you easily if she could reach you, but if you were a Trump Master for example, you could crush her mind from across Shadow.
Picking your battles and picking the battleground are both essential skills.
Good, good...now I see how soft the children of Amber have grown...
The auctions add tension but that doesn't necessarily breed animosity. Alric and Eztil could end up best buddies working on arcane projects together. They could have some rivalry or be willing to destroy the universe to kill the other. The two have never met. Eztil has some cultural differences moat likely but in some ways he might be a hero (from some perspectives).
The elders had countless centuries to build resentments and were manipulated by their father to be totally dysfunctional. We like the second series of youngsters have a cleaner slate. That said there were characters in the second series who hated each other but it was more personal or misguided "your father killed my father and I was poisoned against you"... most of it seemed to be caused by elders agenda.
Most of my games were fairly cooperative. One has really bad scheming causing some to never play together again. Like the others said there is the blood curse, allies and parents not wanting you killed, not wanting everyone to think you are a rabid dog who needs to be put down...
If the throne becomes something we can fight for, the elders are all gone and honestly there are bigger problems than who gets to sit in the chair and wear the hat. :)
@Marjana Huitzilopochtli does need blood as payment for bringing light to Mictlan. The gods sacrificed themselves too. They only ask for a little quid pro quo
Speaking of adding tension, have you noticed that the rules for Constructs allow more than one player pay the points for them?
And share the power contained therein?
The elders had countless centuries to build resentments and were manipulated by their father to be totally dysfunctional. We like the second series of youngsters have a cleaner slate.
This is true, though it can be said that Dworkin was behind Oberon's machinations.
For this game, many of us spent our formative years outside of Amber.I expect this will make a difference in our attitudes towards each other; also, our parents have not been decided yet, so that level of influence has not been decided as well.
So, a couple of important points on the debate about 'losing' in the Auction when it comes to player conflict.
First, it's extremely rare that anyone will lose out to someone in every Attribute, which brings it back to the question that is central to Amber conflict; steering the situation back to your strengths.
Second, even in the situation where you have managed to lose out to someone in every area (or even just most areas), you essentially have to have more points available to you for Powers or Items, which can make a big, big difference. As others have noted, there are Items and Powers which can in many ways simulate an impressive attribute (although it should be pointed out that there are significant weaknesses to going that route - across the board, for instance, if you can scheme a way to take away that Item for a bit, poof! Advantage gone.).
Third, the Death Curse of a Prince of Amber is feared by all knowledgeable beings. Technically speaking, it is actually a Blood Curse, deliverable in times of great stress by those who have walked the Pattern. It invokes their personal relationship with the Pattern to harm the recipient of their curse; functionally, giving yourself an immediate 10 points of Bad Stuff and invoking that same Bad Stuff on the cursed one, all of which goes toward fulfilling your curse. Of course, if you're about to die, then those 10 points of Bad Stuff probably don't matter too much to you. But should you survive...well, that might not work out great for you. Corwin found that out pretty hard in the Patternfall War.
Fourth, Amberites are simply a b!+++ to kill. Even an Amberite with less Endurance than normal is extremely difficult to put down, with all of Shadow to escape through and begin to plot again.
Finally (and this is possibly the most important point), sometimes you determine one of your siblings can best you. This doesn't necessarily mean they're superior to you and your talents, it just means that either their particular strengths trump yours, or perhaps the fight is entirely too much trouble for you to be bothered - not all characters, even Amberites, all have ambitions that reach to the stars! Keep in mind that you come from a family with legendary pride (all of it completely deserved!), but that doesn't mean you can't capitulate from time to time. As others have pointed out, alliances are common in Amber and death is rare, even when they are at each other's throats.