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FYI, I'll likely be away from keyboard Sunday and Monday. Sorry.
Thanks for posting regularly so far everyone. :)
Sunday Monday I am also AFK, but I will check in at least once each day.
I've posted Ezren's char sheet on my alias page for handy reference.
I need a bit of clarification.
The link provided in the encounter says that these gearsman are vulnerable to crits. Vulnerable (as a universal monster ability) says a creature takes 50% more damage from a particular energy type. Does this mean the gearsmen take 1.5 damage from a crit? Or does it mean that as a construct they can be critically wounded? (Assuming that most constructs are not subject to crits (throwback to 3.5 ??)
I hope one of you has the InnerSea Bestiary and it will clarify. Thanks.
Vulnerable to Critical Hits: Whenever a robot takes extra damage from a critical hit, it must make a DC 15 Fortitude save to avoid being stunned for 1 round. If it makes a successful saving throw, it is staggered for 1 round. The robot remains immune to other sources of the stunned condition.
oohh... that changes things. :( ,
Didn't want to ask this and derail the game thread, but just wanted to clear something up for myself: Curaigh, you said the gearsman is stunned til its next move. I assumed that since it was stunned by my attack in the previous round, that its one-round stun ended right before my initiative count the next round. Is that... not how it's supposed to go? Have I been getting a pretty fundamental game rule wrong all this time?
(It's irrelevant for my move itself, since I'm perfectly happy with sticky-fying it.)
No worries, that is what discussion thread is for. I have always played it 'until the start of your next turn' but your right it could be on the instigator's turn, as this results in a 'round and a half' of the condition. Your interpretation fits most spells (end immediately before casters turn the next round). On the other hand, if you stun someone on your attack you should get one round against them, unless stunning something is more like a buff, you do it for your allies more than for yourself. OK now I think I am overthinking this.
Not seeing anything in the PRD, do others have any thoughts on this?
I have always said that the acting round of an effect starts with the turn of the player/npc placing the effect. So it starts effectively at the end of that turn and continues through to the same point in that players next turn, delaying makes no difference.
i.e. If I am on initiative 16, then when my initiative cards come round to me again, that stun ends on my next turn at initiative 16 - if I delay, I miss my opportunity to benefit from my stun.
Here's some relevant PRD text that is similar to what I had assumed:
So a strict reading of that would be that, much like a spell that had a one round duration, I wouldn't get to benefit from a stun that I had caused. Actually, I think this is easily comparable to Stunning Fist, which specifically states that it ends before your next turn. So yeah, ultimately I think it's more of a buff you're giving your teammates than setting up an idealized combat situation for yourself. (Although I suppose if I were making a full attack, critted on the first hit & the gearsman failed the save, then it would be stunned for the rest of my iterative strikes & I'd get SA damage on those...)
But anyway, kind of relieved I didn't 'waste' my chance to get in an extra SA.
OK I have been doing it wrong since 3.5 (though maybe that was the correct way in 3.5?)
DankeSean wins! (for not losing a SA :)
This hardness 10 is huge, V has barely scratched it. I was unaware critters could even have a hardness (as opposed to DR). Which leaves me with a bunch of questions, namely am I running them correctly?
Since I am using the links provided, can someone tell me if the Innersea Bestiary matches the d20pfsrd?
Does hardness on a critter work like hardness on an object?
I am doing it like DR, is this correct?
I think it should be done like an object. I suspect these are special, considering they're constructs.
Busy night tonight, so can't really doublecheck the pfsrd, though I'll see if I can get to it later.
Part of the problem for Valeros is the die roller is just KILLING him (and me in general, lately). I think I've probably only hit them three times (four with this last attack), despite having made about 13 swings.
Agreed, with a +12 attack, you should hit more than 50% and you are closer to 25% :P
This is getting close to voting. I dinnae remember where this was for me in the votes. I have a clearer understanding than before and has probably moved up in my esteem. If you want to see my playtest notes from the GM screen, I can add them. Do you want to add yours?
I am more than happy to finish the encounter even after voting closes :)
Yeah, I went ahead and commented on the entry's thread.
Thanks Curaigh, that would be cool.
The only thing I have found disappointing so far is the lack of environmental effects - when the tank was broken, maybe the floor should have become greasey/slippery - difficult terrain / move at normal speed requires Dex check to not land on your bottom sort of thing. That would have fit really well with the slime creature.
Thanks Curaigh, that would be cool.
The only thing I have found disappointing so far is the lack of environmental effects - when the tank was broken, maybe the floor should have become greasey/slippery - difficult terrain / move at normal speed requires Dex check to not land on your bottom sort of thing. That would have fit really well with the slime creature.
Honestly, (speaking as the player of the character with the most need for combat mobility), I think that the floor becoming difficult terrain after the tank shattered is more than harsh enough of an effect. Making it the equivalent of a grease spell would be a bit excessive. Especially since really, it's only water- even losing half my movement to it felt a little bit of an arbitrary difficulty bump.
I'm definitely in for playing this out even after voting as well.
Honestly as one who likes challenges the broken tank was more for the water slowing people down than for freeing the ooze. Fortunately I can justify the gearsman using this (more so than freeing the ooze). As written I think Axia is supposed to spring the 'trap' (or the addicts once the attendant Axia is not paying attention.
Also as written (discovered on play test) the ooze is supposed to attack whomever broke the glass (presuming they are closest) but the gearsman have been given reach weapons. Also they are con-less, so not sure it makes sense for Axia to free the Egelsee in an attempt to distract them. Both minor details, that I will not hold against the author. I only find them interesting because this is one of the things playtesting showed where reading it did not.
I do think these gearsman are pretty powerful for their CR, AC 20 is not too bad at level 7, but hardness 10 is. That is a problem with the gearsman's CR & not the author, but had it been tested, he might have found them too much. Of course, the die roller here has been pretty much against us. I think it would have gone the other way if the dice would listen to the bell curve :)
The gearsman will fight to the death as written, even after their prey is gone? Or better yet (for them), once they have captured her?
The gearsmen were getting wailed on - would have been a poor GM who didn't call the ooze into play - I would have done exactly what you did fella - totally good call in my opinion. (and it doesnt say anywhere that I can find that only PCs can "set off" the trap :P)
Thanks Curaigh, that would be cool.
The only thing I have found disappointing so far is the lack of environmental effects - when the tank was broken, maybe the floor should have become greasey/slippery - difficult terrain / move at normal speed requires Dex check to not land on your bottom sort of thing. That would have fit really well with the slime creature.
Honestly, (speaking as the player of the character with the most need for combat mobility), I think that the floor becoming difficult terrain after the tank shattered is more than harsh enough of an effect. Making it the equivalent of a grease spell would be a bit excessive. Especially since really, it's only water- even losing half my movement to it felt a little bit of an arbitrary difficulty bump.
I'm definitely in for playing this out even after voting as well.
Thats kind of true - my problem was that the difficulty of the terrain from water would last about 5 seconds (or one round), after the initial rush, the water would disperse really quickly - so having it slimy water would keep the encounter movement interesting.
Good point AA, though not made clear the sticky fluid filled with all kinds of stinky oils from its skin, not sure if that is in the encounter, but it makes sense to me as to why it would stick around. :)
*grumble grumble grumble* :
...The central tank, pipes, and all of the dispenser stations are constructed of metal fixtures and reinforced glass panels (hardness 2, 5 hp). Sundering the central tank or any of the dispenser stations frees the Egelsee cocktail within as well as spilling water in a 20’ radius causing the floor to become slippery (+2 to Acrobatics DCs). Sundering one of the pipes on the ceiling has a similar effect and will allow the Egelsee cocktail in the central tank to make its way out of the breach.
So it appears I added the difficult terrain, not the encounter, :( probably because I read it too long before we played it. Originally I thought this was NOT a trap. Though it frees the Egelsee cocktail and adds to the encounter, a +2 to acrobatics checks (which will only be relevant to avoiding AoO) is DEFINATLY NOT a trap in my book. I want to add one of those little yellow sandwich boards custodians use; you know, the one that reads:
Guys, I apologize, but I'm gonna need to duck out for the coming week. It's Pesach (Passover); pretty much every other day is shabbat or a holiday, keeping me AFK, and the rest of the time is festively overscheduled as well.
Can somebody take over Ezren for me?
I might suggest it's time to end it. We're going to have the reveals of the adventures tomorrow and honestly, I'm just doing the same thing every turn -- hacking away at the gearsman.
Lastt round as ooze is at 2 & G2 is at 4. I think we can call out there, but if anyone wants to take thr least action please go ahead. otherwise we are done :)
Hah! Missed the discussion update because I kept refreshing the gaming thread. Yeah, ending here is fine by me; at this point it just seemed a bit of slogging through damage rolls till we got an eventual victory. Thanks for the gaming, gents. it was fun. (Well, the play was fun & the encounter was pretty good, but I kind of want to strangle whoever designed gearsmen...)
Me too! hardness 10? on a CR 4? WTF
and thanks for everyone participating. I will try and set play tests for next years round 4 BEFORE the top 8 are announced.
Though I like the idea of a RPGSuperstar Party to play test them all :)
Agreed, Sean. It was good to play with new folks, including a Top 4 guy, even if I was just hacking and slashing.
Curaigh, do you mind closing the game so it leaves my campaign tabs?
Aye :)
Was good fun all, I actually enjoyed the role play that was brought in even if my d20(10 or less) didn't help us much :D
As an after thought, this was very educational too - I revisited my encounter designs realising that so many end up descending into the hit point bash - so Im no looking at things I can do to make things interesting throughout the fight...
E.g., for this one, I would think about changing the gearsman to have no more than 5 hardness, but at 50% health or less, their plating starts to breach. And the water in the room causes them to spark with electrical discharges when struck, introducing a new element to the fight mid way.
Similarly, the ooze could split at half and quarter health creating smaller oozes, providing multiple targets and attacks - but losing the ability to grapple. The remaining health of the ooze splitting shared equally between the two new oozes.
This would make the grapple less of a problem in the end game, a threat at the start, but not so much as to completely tie weaker characters to no tactical movement possibilities.
Mmmm, I wonder how my players are going to react to my new found deviousness.