Glad the borking isn't just happening to me. *scurries and hides behind a tree* Carry on.
D:
*waves back at Painlord*
Nice to see another (friendly?) face! :3
Painlord didn't notice me! :( My Stealth ability must be too strong! Kidding aside, not having this forum under "My Campaigns" tab is terrible. I'm one of those people who needs notifications.
Ventiine, do you wish to console yourself by rolling for questions? I'm back and open to bringing the GM101 questions again!
I hope everyone else had a decent weekend. Hugs, all!
Hmm
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Welcome back Hmm! :)
_____________
Okay, since you were asking on our thoughts on questions that other people got, let's see...(spoilered due to length)...
My short term solution would be to explain that you can't just create a fresh 7th level and jump into a game and offer a choice of pregens for the player to use in the meantime with special nods towards whatever pregens most closely fit with what the player had originally wanted to do/play.
Longer term, which would probably happen after the scenario if possible, would be to sit the player down and explain more thoroughly how PFS works and how character leveling works. Hopefully I'd be able to talk the player into actually giving low-level play a chance with a new character, instead of walking away from PFS altogether.
JAFO, I like the suggestion of directing the player towards non-PFS games on the forums if they really weren't interested in how PFS has to operate.
One of the things I like about playing in a PbP format is that it's really easy to go back and post links to specific posts. That's what I would do in this case as well as try to lay out said links in a logical progression, something like:
You were told <this> at your mission briefing
Then you went and did thing and got more <information>
Next, you went to another <place> and did another <thing>
Etc.
Hum...here I would try to gently explain that although it's nice when other players are willing to burn their own gold/resources to help bring a fallen player back, that there's nothing in PFS that specifically demands that they do so.
This is where the dead player's attitude/actions during the game become important. If they ended up bringing their own demise upon themselves by making poor decisions and/or were being irritating or a jerk to the other players, I'd probably also speak to them privately to try and walk them through some of their behavior with suggestions on how to improve in the future (and also increases their chances of other players being willing to help them in the future).
Choon, I also like your idea of trying to put a positive spin on the character death!
I'd put the kibosh on that in a hurry by reminding the players (and the other angry GM) that such a conversation, if they insist on having it, should be handled privately. We're here to play a game, not argue and gossip. If need be I'd try to deescalate, as Choon mentioned, and act as a mediator to try and smooth things over but I'm not inclined to allow drama from other games to spill over into mine.
Admittedly this is a situation where my lack of intimate knowledge of PFS rules would probably force me to consult another GM or someone in a position of authority (VL/VC) on how to proceed. I do like how ThinkingFlesh answered this question though and I'd likely do the same unless advised otherwise.
In the interests of fairness, I'd have to tell the GM that they missed the cutoff for recruitment for this game but offer up front to save them a spot for the next game I'd be running. I'd also hope that the other GM wouldn't be petty to let that affect their decision-making for choosing players for their own game :|
I don't really have anything new to add that KoA hasn't already said on this one, down to pulling out the NPC Codex and dropping strong hints that the party really doesn't want to go there on fighting this person.
Inquire privately and as delicately as possible about the situation and ask if there's anything else going on that's distracting the player and what I can do to make the game easier to manage for them.
I think Andreww's answers work well here. If the player vanished immediately after the briefing before making any dice rolls then they never truly participated in the scenario before a replacement was found. Since a replacement was found (and it's a 7-player game) then I could release the player to try the scenario again at another time.
Since the player doesn't have PMs enabled, then I'd have to hash at least some of this out via the Discussion thread or via email if they had volunteered one.
Oh man, if time weren't an issue (and keeping characters locked into a scenario and unavailable for other games) and it wasn't PFS then this is the sort of thing I'd probably just roll with. As it stands, I'd probably try to drop some subtle hints in-game that while they're making all kinds of friends and connections, they still have a job to do.
Really though, I'm also in agreement with how andreww answered this one. Depending on the NPCs, I might have a few of them refuse all/some of the aid out of pride or because they might realize that the PCs are people who do dangerous things and might need their resources for later.
Pretty much the same as RePete said; there's a variety of different ways to try and prod the players forward even if they've managed to kill/destroy their means for discovering the next place to go to.
Yeahhh...my own home GM has to do this sometimes when people aren't paying attention to their map/spell placement.
'Are you sure you want to do that?' is usually good enough to get people to reconsider their action or to at least hold it as a readied action until the battle layout can change.
RePete makes a good note on making sure that the intent isn't malicious, as well.
Somehow I missed teh post about rolling. The stuff afterwards was very confusing and I thought the thread was drifting. Makes sense now.
I thought this could be a great way to get questions and answers and discussion going.
As an aside, a couple of the questions that I've given out here were things that I've had to deal with -- though maybe not with full complications. I had Mr. Random show up in game that I took over. He had lost track of the game when the previous GM disappeared and then discovered that the game was going again, but still throught it was going at it's previous glacial pace. I couldn't PM him, couldn't email him, and he was clearly not reading discussion. Fortunately, I did not have a full table of six so I rode it out until he suddenly started posting regularly and excitedly in the final batle. He was brand new and clueless, but once he finally caught on, he had a good time. It was a very weird situation, but it worked out in the end.
At what point did you decide to take over his game? Had it been a couple months? At what point is it no longer considered rude to take over for an absent GM?
Of course I want to roll! I'm glad you're back from vacation/camping. Rolling:
GM Ietsuna --
POOF!
Set-Up: It is the middle of Act Three. You've had two players of your group posting only intermittently to date. Both have been having IRL problems that they've posted about in discussion.
The Situation: Both dissappear. There's no evidence of them anywhere. It's been a fortnight with no posts from either.
___
AWOL!
Set-Up: It is the middle of Act Three.
The Situation: You've had a player who was really involved with your game suddenly go silent. He won't answer PMs. However, he is posting everywhere else. You see their posts in the PFS general discussion forum. You see their posts in OTHER games.
___
GM Ventiine --
Paizo just blipped on me, wiping out the questions that I wrote for you. I will return with your issues in a bit. Meanwhile, let's answer this question:
At what point did you decide to take over his game? Had it been a couple months? At what point is it no longer considered rude to take over for an absent GM?
GM Missing had been gone for 2.5 weeks, and she had disappeared from 8 other games simultaneously, after posting about how real life had suddenly swallowed her up. I got contacted by one of the players (Lady Ladile) who asked if I could help. So I took the game's pulse, saw that we had four semi-active players, and started moving us forward.
Our official ruling: One week without any GM posts in discussion or gameplay is considered abandonment. This does not count GMs who have declared an official hiatus with a pre-set return date. In that case we would only consider a game abandoned when we hit one week past that return date.
Thanks Hmm. I will think about those.
Looking forward to the answers to those, because I have no freaking idea.
If a week is abandonment then I want to play in the games you play in. The games I get in tend to go glacial in pace pretty quickly for some reason.
edit: I will refrain from answering until the original person has answered. :)
GM Ventiine --
Here are some issues for you:
We Never Asked For You!
Set-up: There is a post in Flaxseed about an abandoned game, with one of the players asking for help.
The Situation: You offer your services to replace GM Missing, who has been gone for three weeks. However, two of the six players are unhappy about the idea. GM Missing was an awesome GM, and when she'd last posted, she had talked about being away only for a few days to deal with her father's funeral. They tell you, "No thanks. We'll wait for her."
___
A Bit of a Reach
Set-up: It's the middle of Act Two. A player who is level Seven has a really neat build based on reach with his Reachosaurus* Dinosaur. He's put a ton of feats into this, and it's paid off. The two of them have a Paired Opportunists build that works great!
The Situation: You discover that when looking at Additional Resources that the animal buddy is no longer legal in PFS. It's not a legal dinosaur choice.
If a week is abandonment then I want to play in the games you play in. The games I get in tend to go glacial in pace pretty quickly for some reason.
edit: I will refrain from answering until the original person has answered. :)
Jesse and I had to come up with a ruling for PFS, where the games tend to be much shorter. Part of this is that we want to encourage GM's to post to their groups when something is going on. So long as they're posting in discussion, the game is not abandoned.
But if they disappear for a week without saying anything... Yeah, it's abandoned. We usually don't get called in by the players until two weeks have gone by. But with this ruling, we can act.
That's fair. Especially in PFS.
Looking forward to the answers to those, because I have no freaking idea.
These are meant to be a challenge, but also reflect things that happen sometimes in the PbP world. Often there is no single one right answer!
Hmm
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Oh! A GM 101 Update:
Now folks can carry those Breath of Life scrolls in their spring-loaded wrist sheaths without fear of table variation.
Huzzah!
wow... I was getting no updates for this thread... glad I saw your post in Flaxseed, referring to this one... much more to read than just the last couple, I see.
I'm with JAFO, I haven't been getting updates for the thread either. I also noticed Hmm's post in the Flaxseed.
So that is three of you that are getting no updates from this thread?
This is getting irritating. :/
I'm really getting annoyed with the Paizo forum gremlins.
|
I believe it is the player’s responsibility to move their token where they want to be OR make it clear in a post within the GM’s posting window (set out in the Starting Guidelines) where they want their PC positioned.
Now again, this is not a hard-and-fast rule. Knowledge of your players and the trust they have for you also plays a part.
From playing or GMing for past players, I believe I can get a feel that:
• Alice doesn’t really care about marching order. I’ve played with her for years, and she knows I won’t deliberately screw her over.
• Bob must have everything ‘just so.’ I’m going to warn him “everyone” in gameplay that he “they” needs to decide what they’re doing, as not making a decision is still a decision.
• Chuck is brand new to me. I know nothing about him. He knows nothing about me. But he’s been a pretty good player so far … I might prompt him for a decision by PM
☺ ☺ ☺
I have zero problem as a player or GM with the GM rolling Initiative or passive Perception checks.
But I hate rolling saving throws, attacks of opportunity and most other skill checks for my players when I GM, and I don’t like the GM doing it for my PC when I play. (Though it’s certainly not a deal-breaker – especially if the GM lets you know her policy BEFORE we start)
I think it’s about wanting to control the important actions of MY PC.
Sure, initiative can count – especially at higher levels – but it’s a simple “passive” dice roll that RIGHT NOW doesn’t mean life-or-death for my PC. My decisions have determined what initiative modifier my PC has – everything else is out of my control.
However, when it comes to saving throws … Hey, these are important to my/my party’s success! I want to roll to see if my PC succeeds/is screwed!
Also, taking attacks of opportunity is fun! I want to take them, darnit!
Pretty much all skill checks (except passive Perception) can be a little of both – life & death and/or fun!
Totally agree that having the players roll these can slow the OUTCOME of a combat round down a little. However, if the player posts the required actions WITH their next combat action, it doesn’t slow the WHOLE GAME down much at all.
But if the GM’s goal is to make the game fun for EVERYONE, I think (within reason) players should be rolling the more important actions of their own PCs.
Ok, here are my attempts at answers to the situations posed by GM Hmm.
POOF!
Set-Up: It is the middle of Act Three. You've had two players of your group posting only intermittently to date. Both have been having IRL problems that they've posted about in discussion.
The Situation: Both disappear. There's no evidence of them anywhere. It's been a fortnight with no posts from either.
Complication: You don't have a legal table without them.
I know that I as GM can play a character in order to make a legal table, but I cannot play 2. I would ask the 2 players left if they would like to replace the players and go about the process of getting players in.
AWOL!
Set-Up: It is the middle of Act Three.
The Situation: You've had a player who was really involved with your game suddenly go silent. He won't answer PMs. However, he is posting everywhere else. You see their posts in the PFS general discussion forum. You see their posts in OTHER games.
Complication: You're pretty sure that they're upset about something that happened in your game, but you have no idea what because they are not communicating to you.
In this case I would put the character on hold, botting as required but making no big actions. I would appeal to someone (possibly you GM Hmm) about possibly serving as an intermediary? to try to resolve the issue and have the player rejoin to finish out the scenario.
On a related note I have a vague recollection about partial credit for scenarios where you have joined half way through for example. I cannot seem to find anything about this in the Season 8 Roleplay Guild Guide or anywhere else I have looked. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places, but does anyone know of this?
I think you did a great job with those questions! With the second question do try PMs first, but if that doesn't work, try an intermediary. And if THAT doesn't work, send the person a polite note telling them that you will be replacing them, and that you wish them the best in future games.
___
In PFS play, there are rules for when a new player can join a game for full credit. Players can join a game for full credit in a scenario AFTER the first encounter but before the second starts. So long as they complete three encounters, they have earned their experience point. In a PFS sanctioned module, replacement characters can still join for full PFS credit if the module is less than one-third completed.
If the game is fairly far advanced in the plot, groups can do one of the following to deal with an absence.
- Do without. Just continue the adventure without them.
- Use a pregen to make a legal table.
- Recruit a player who is willing to join for reduced credit and gold, basing what they get on the percentage of the adventure, according to the rules for partially completed modules.
Players who do not complete each game session earn 1/3 fewer gold pieces, 1 less XP and 1 less Prestige Point for each session missed. This also applies to players who join later sessions; they receive 1/3 fewer gold pieces, 1 fewer XP and Prestige Point for each session missed. In both cases, players earn a minimum of 1/3 gold pieces, 1 XP and 1 Prestige Point.
- Recruit someone who has previously played the adventure to replay for no credit. You may only exercise this option with tables of three players or less.
____
I asked the above question because the rules on this are obscure and hard to find. In the case of the disappearance after the second act, you may want to find "replayers" to fill out the table complement.
So... For chronicle sheets, I think that each of the GMs should do the chronicle for one other player.
Should we roll for it, or do you want to pick lab partners? Jesse said he would be by later today to discuss chronicle sheets and reporting.
Hmm
Lets roll it.
My phobia of doing paperwork incorrectly preemptivly thanks him.
rolling is fine with me.
Rolling will work for me as well :)
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This "rolling of dice to determine a random outcome" is intriguing. Someone ought to create a game around such a grand concept!
I'm in. :-)
Roll, Roll, Roll, Roll!
GM Ventiine --
Here are some issues for you:
Set-up: There is a post in Flaxseed about an abandoned game, with one of the players asking for help.
The Situation: You offer your services to replace GM Missing, who has been gone for three weeks. However, two of the six players are unhappy about the idea. GM Missing was an awesome GM, and when she'd last posted, she had talked about being away only for a few days to deal with her father's funeral. They tell you, "No thanks. We'll wait for her."
The Complication: This is a game with a deadline. It was started for Play-by-Post Gameday VI, and needs to complete within three weeks in order for the players to earn their boons.
Yikes, it sounds like there is a rift within the party. I would say that the majority wins. If the majority of the players are indifferent or want their original GM to be replaced, I see no reason why a new GM can’t step in. Three weeks is a lot longer than a couple of days. Additionally, it’s not fair to the other players who want to receive credit if the entire campaign is just cancelled.
Set-up: It's the middle of Act Two. A player who is level Seven has a really neat build based on reach with his Reachosaurus* Dinosaur. He's put a ton of feats into this, and it's paid off. The two of them have a Paired Opportunists build that works great!
The Situation: You discover that when looking at Additional Resources that the animal buddy is no longer legal in PFS. It's not a legal dinosaur choice.
The Complication: The player is sure that it's legal. He knows a bunch of other people who have Reach-o-Sauruses! However, he cannot find a legal source.
I actually have no idea for this one. If it was once legal and then changed, are players just allowed to willy nilly alter the no longer legal aspects of their characters?
Since the game is already in progress when the mistake was noticed, it makes the discussion a lot more difficult and touchy. You need to make sure you talk to the player gently and let them know it’s the guidelines, not you own personal views, that require a re-evaluation of his/her animal companion. I personally, would not feel comfortable running a game that doesn’t adhere to the PFS guidelines. Perhaps in a homebrew game but when it comes to being PFS legal, it’s important that everyone follow the rules. I would ask the player to show me their sources for where they saw that the companion was legal.
I would like to print out the Chronicle sheet so I can add it to my Pathfinder Binder.
Will the sheets all be uploaded to the same place? Also, are you planning to report the session?
Player Name:
PFS Character Name:
PFS Character #:
Faction:
Chronicle # for this adventure: 2
Final XP total from your last chronicle: 1
Total gold from your last chronicle: 65gp (leftover starting) + 516gp (Reaping What We Sow) = 581gp
Final Fame from your last chronicle: 2 prestige
Final PP total from your last chronicle: 2
#8-06: Reaping What We Sow (Jan 16, 2017), 516gp, 1xp, 2 prestige earned
Pathfinder Quests: Phantom Phenomena (March 4, 2017 - May 3, 2017), 500gp, 1xp, 2 prestige earned
> Harrow (March 4, 2017 – March 12, 2017)
> Lightning (March 13, 2017 – March 16, 2017)
> Manor (March 17 – March 25, 2017)
> Monolith (March 25, 2017 – April 7, 2017)
> University (April 9, 2017 – April 19, 2017)
> Epicenter (April 21, 2017 - May 3, 2017)
I'm not sure if the player details are up anywhere or not. I can't remember.
GM ofAnything may have collected data for his table... Other wise, I think we'll want to collect it now.
My phobia of doing paperwork incorrectly preemptivly thanks him.
Ha! I have the same phobia!
___
ROLLING FOR CHRONICLE SHEETS FOR THOSE WHO GMed
;
GM Bearington: Ladile
GM Ietsuna: JAFO & Bearington
GM JAFO: Choon
GM Ladile: Thinking Flesh
GM ofAnything: Ventiine & Ietsuna
GM ThinkingFlesh: OfAnything
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Regionally Appropriate Greeting Everyone.
Thank all of you for participating in the inaugural PFSO PbP GM 101 session.
GM Hmm asked that I stop by to talk with you guys about Chronicle Sheets.
( I know. I know. Please try to contain your excitement. ;b )
The Season 8 Pathfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Guide covers the basics of filling in chronicles on pages 13-15, so it would be a bit repetitive to cover every single detail here, so we will instead focus on the parts that are a little different for Online Play. We will also discuss tools very briefly – as well as some best practices too.
Let’s start with tools.
What tool(s) you choose to use for chronicles will, ultimately, be totally up to each of you to decide. There won’t be a single tool that fits everyone and every situation. The end results all needs to be the same though, whichever tool you choose to use in the end – and that is each GM should provide the players, and themselves, with a chronicle sheet that is 100% completed, uneditable, high quality, and printable.
One option is to physically print out the chronicles, fill them out by hand - and then scan them, in color, at a high enough resolution that the player can in turn print them back out themselves when they receive them and the sheet won’t look pixelated or wonky.
Another option is to use an image editor to fill in the sheets. An example of such an application would be MS Paint, the program included in Microsoft Windows installations by default. This is a simple, no cost solution that most people can figure out very easily. The key to using Paint, and other image editing programs, is making sure the image quality is high enough so that the image can be printed and still looks clean, yet not go too high resolution that the image file is huge. Other image editing tools would include applications like G.I.M.P. on Linux/Windows, or the high-end Adobe Professional Image tools that can be purchased for Windows and Mac.
And lastly, you can use PDF editing tools to extract, manipulate, and fill in the chronicle sheets directly from the scenario PDFs. (This is the most common method of chronicle distribution for online play and it gives the players a chronicle that is at the native resolution and format of the original chronicle sheet in the scenario.) Examples of such tools would be: PDFill, a personal favorite; Master PDF Editor; Adobe Acrobat Pro; Foxit PDF Tools; or a ton of other PDF tools you can easily find on the internet. The major thing to watch out for with PDFs is to make sure you lock them when they are sent to the players so that they are no longer editable (often referred to as “flattening” the PDF), and that you do not increase the file size by too much when creating the PDF chronicle.
The next choice you will have to make when it comes to tools is what tool you will use to deliver the chronicle sheets to the players once you have filled them out. This can be email, or a Dropbox/Google Drive folder you share with the players, or a direct message through a chat tool like Discord, or any other method you choose that is freely/readily available to the players and is easy for you and them to use.
Ultimately you should choose what methods and tools work best for you and your own style.
I suggest you try and experiment with a few different tools in the beginning so you can get a good feeling for each method and choose what works best, and is fastest, for you.
I’ll be back on later today to discuss the actual process of filling in the sheets, and will cover some best practices then as well. (We can discuss any questions you have on tools then too.) For now I suggest thinking about what tools you would like to try first and we’ll go from there.
Talk to you all soon!
Do we have an event id?
Make your own from the Create an Event page.
Thanks for that overview! I'll start looking into tools when I get the chance. Probably tomorrow.
If we each make our own event, and we're only making one chronicle (or two) and reporting one (or two) players, will it still be considered a valid table? or should we have one blanket event id for the whole thing? I'm confused.
You report all the players on your event, and only create one or two chronicles. I though GM Hmm explained the process earlier in the thread.
^ That is correct.
Report all your players, then make one or two chronicles.
I'll try and get ThinkingFlesh's chronicle done tonight but it might be tomorrow evening before I finish it due to my work schedule today and tomorrow.
I think the most important thing to do is double check with players that you have your data right.
Double check their starting prestige, gold and XP. If they're a wizard or someone else copying spells into a spell book, try to get that information in advance if you can.
Hmm
Right, thanks Hmm.
OfAnything, can I get your stats?
Ladile, here's mine:
Player: Caro Cogitatus
Character: (The) Herald
PFS#: 106336-15
Faction: Liberty's Edge
Day Job: Preaching in the town square. Not much money in it, actually. Mostly rotten fruit.
Prestige: 2
Gold: 470.7gp
XP: 2
Right, thanks Hmm.
OfAnything, can I get your stats?
Sure thing
Player: KingOfAnything
Character: Zakhar Hexenbain
PFS#: 93593-21
Faction: Dark Archive
Day Job:
init Prestige: 0
Gold: 150 gp
XP: 0
Here is my info:
player: JAF0
Character: Imojin
pFS#: 52335-20
faction: liberty's edge
day job: none
init prestige: 2
initial fame: 4
gold: 916
xp: 2
player: Adam Horne
Character: Mathos Crus
PFS#: 204997-10
faction: Dark Archive
day job:
init prestige: 0
initial fame: 0
gold: 29
xp: 0
Player: Lady Ladile
Character: Fran Belmont
PFS #: 192133 - 11
Faction: Dark Archive
Day Job: None
Initial Prestige: 0
Initial Fame: 0
Initial Exp: 0
Gold: 2 gp, 2 sp, 5 cp
Ok, I have done JAF0's Chronicle. Can someone check it please to make sure I did it right?
Thanks