I'd be interested in playing a Storm Trooper; after all, someone has to keep Rad safe from all you ruffians. How does the regiment choice/character creation work for support specialists, who would generally be from a different world?
Great choice, Ellipsis. One big difference for the Commissar and Storm Trooper is that they do not roll for a comrade. Cause, you know, everyone in the unit hates you. ;)
Characteristic Bonus: +5 Toughness.
Starting Aptitudes: Agility, Ballistic Skill, Fieldcraft,
Offence, Toughness, Weapon Skill.
Starting Skills: Awareness, Dodge or Parry, Intimidate
or Security, Scholastic Lore (Tactica Imperialis), Stealth.
Starting Talents: Quick Draw or Rapid Reload,
Takedown, Weapon Training (Las, Low-Tech).
Specialist Equipment: Good Craftsmanship Hotshot
Lasgun, Good Craftsmanship Carapace Armour.
Wounds: 12+1d5
Flavorwise, I would say that Light Infantry or Recon are probably the best fit for Oremor. The main operational terrain being either jungle or hive makes things tough on mechanized units. Also, Oremor lacks the industrial base of Scintilla or Fenksworld, which makes producing all those vehicles somewhat difficult.
Ed: Depending on the terrain we could probably switch out Chimera and Sentinel. The Sentinel can operate almost anywhere, while the Chimera actually has armor and can fit all of us in there.
With regard to character creation. The beta rules provide for an alternate character creation method which I am happy to permit.
All nine characteristics (WS, BS, etc.) start at 20.
Player gets 100 points to allocate to any of the nine categories.
Individual characteristics can receive no more than 20 additional points.
Allows for more player control and creates a character with slightly higher than average stats.
EDIT: So I suppose we can do this. Go ahead and roll up a character here on the Paizo boards. If you are unhappy with the results, use the alternate method described in the spoiler.
Support Specialists also only get 300xp for improvements at character creation, whereas the rank and file guardsmen get 600xp.
Collating:
Penal World: 2 points
Reconnaissance Regiment: 3 points
7 points remaining to split between the remaining three choices:
Commanding Officer: Bilious (2), Circumspect (2), Choleric (2), Fixed (1), Maverick (2), Melancholic (2), Phlegmatic (1), Sanguine (2), Supine (1)
Training Doctrines: Close Order Drill (2), Die-Hards (3), Favored Foe (3), Fieldcraft (4), Hardened Fighters (2), Iron Discipline (3), Sharpshooters (4)
Special Equipment Doctrines: Augmetics (2), Chameleoline (3), Combat Drugs (2), Demolitions (3), Scavengers (3), Warrior Weapons (3), Well-Provisioned (3)
If we take one of the 1 point Commanding Officer choices, then we get more flexibility for Training and Special Kit Doctrines.
Starting Skills: Command
Starting Skills: Common Lore (Imperial Guard), Common Lore (War)
Starting Skills: Common Lore (Ecclesiarchy), Common Lore (Imperial Creed)
Supine would provide some interesting RP choices along the lines of complete distrust in upper leadership; resentment at being sent into suicidal missions; and in keeping as the top commander of a Penal Legion would probably not be one of the Imperium's brightest sparks.
Ed: Depending on the terrain we could probably switch out Chimera and Sentinel. The Sentinel can operate almost anywhere, while the Chimera actually has armor and can fit all of us in there.
I think that allowing some flexibility in this regard is fair. Unless I see it overtly described in the rules, it does not have to be a one-time choice.
I like Phlegmatic as a choice. We would have to have a commander who commands some level of respect from his troops otherwise we would all be deserting.
To make the last couple of choices of Regiment options easier:
Training Doctrines:
Talents: Combat Formation or Double Team
Starting Aptitude: Toughness
Starting Skills: Forbidden Lore (choose one†)
Starting Talents: Hatred (choose one†)
†When selecting this doctrine, a single enemy of the Imperium must
be selected. The choice of Forbidden Lore speciality and Hatred must
reflect this choice of enemy.
Starting Aptitude: Agility
Special: When selecting this doctrine, nominate a single type
of terrain—Desert, Jungle, Tundra, Ash Wastes, Urban Ruins,
etc. When operating in that kind of terrain, failed Survival and
Navigate (Surface) Skill Tests may be re-rolled by characters
from a regiment with this doctrine.
Characteristics: +2 Weapon Skill
Starting Talents: Street Fighting
Standard Regimental Kit: The regiment may replace its
standard melee weapon with either a Primary Weapon of
Common Availability or better, or it may apply the monoedged
upgrade to its standard melee weapon.
Starting Aptitude: Willpower
Starting Aptitude: Ballistic Skill
Starting Talents: Deadeye Shot
Special Equipment Doctrines:
Standard Regimental Kit: The regiment gains an additional
+10 on all Logistics Tests made to obtain bionic replacements
and implants.
Standard Regimental Kit: The regiment is equipped with
either chameleoline cloaks or chameleoline-coated armour.
Standard Regimental Kit: The regiment adds an injector
or inhaler and three doses of frenzon or five doses of stimm.
Additional doses must be obtained through requisition or
additional standard kit items.
Standard Regimental Kit: The regiment gains a +10 bonus
on all Logistics Tests made to obtain grenades, missiles,
explosives, and special tank ammunition.
Standard Regimental Kit: The regiment may choose to
gain a +10 bonus on any Logistics Test. However, on any
test where this bonus is used, if any doubles are rolled (22,
33, 44, etc.) whether the Test was a success or a failure, then
the scavenging and stealing have drawn unwanted attention
from higher authorities within the Imperial Guard or the
Departmento Munitorum.
Starting Skills: Parry
Standard Regimental Kit: The regiment exchanges their
Main Weapon for a Low-Tech weapon of Common or better
Availability and a laspistol and two charge packs.
Standard Regimental Kit: The regiment increases the
number of clips for their main ranged weapon and the
number of weeks’ rations they carry as standard by +2, and
gain an additional grenade of each type in their standard kit
(if applicable). If the regiment contains vehicles, this also
grants a +10 bonus on all Logistics tests to obtain fuel and
parts for repairing and maintaining those vehicles.
Specialists receive the same Homeworld traits, bonuses, and adjustments as regular guardsmen (RAW, p.26). I'm adding a house rule where Commissars and Storm Troopers (normally outsiders) have the option of choosing a different homeworld.
Rad and Ellipsis, you may choose either to be from Oremor (w/the Penal Colony adjustments) OR receive adjustments from another homeworld (even one with a higher point cost such as Schola Progenium) for your character. However like your squad mates, you will still suffer from the reduced 15 point penalty regarding costs for additional equipment.
This was posted on the FFG forum for non-Ratling snipers:
===================
Marksman Specialist
Starting Aptitudes, Talents and Modifiers:
Characteristic Bonus: +5 Ballistic Skill.
Starting Aptitudes: Agility, Ballistic Skill, Fellowship, Fieldcraft, Finesse, Perception.
Starting Skills: Athletics or Survival, Awareness or Stealth, Deceive, Navigation (Surface), Common Lore (Imperial Guard, War).
Starting Talents: Deadeye Shot, Heightened Senses (Sight or Hearing) or Rapid Reload, Weapon Training (Las, Solid Projectile), Weapon Training (1 excluding Heavy and Exotic).
Specialist Equipment: Good craftsmanship Long Las or Good craftsmanship Sniper Rifle, 2 smoke grenades, Telescopic Sight, Chameleoline Cloak.
Starting Wounds: 6+1d5
Comrade Advances:
As Ratling comrade advances.
============================
This looks pretty good to me for Bal's character. The only changes I would make: get rid of Deceive as a starting skill and leave wounds per the Weapons Specialist, 8+1d5.
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Sorry for the slow posting guys.
In catching up I think Ellipsis has the right of it, the best choices for Oremor regiments would be either Light Infantry or Recon, particularly if they originated from one of the non-hive legions from the Unduz archipelago in the southern hemisphere. The Light Infantry would be primarily a penal garrison force, while the Recon element would be capable jungle/guerilla fighters and trackers (all the better for tracking escaped prisoners and dealing with the isle chain's near-feral native tribes).
I'm partial to Recon myself for RP opportunities.
If the we go with one of these Legions, they'd have to be considered hard-bitten survivors of some very nasty engagements. Without getting into too much spoiler-ish detail about the Oremor Affliction, I can say that eventually every one of the Unduz-based regiments has to deal with the fall-out of the Ylesium claustrum Warp incursion. Heck, the regiment may even be the consolidation of what is left of all of them.
Given that, their leader is probably either a survivor himself (Phlegmatic, like Bal suggested) respected by his peers, or a total incompetent placed in charge of what amounts to penal legion left-overs (Supine would work here, particularly if there was some question as to Warp-taint for the remnants, or just the questionable morality of the prisoners). Fixed would also work (these guys are expendable, this command is worthless, throw them to the meat-grinder and maybe I'm assigned a better command).
Another I kind of like, albeit more expensive was Melancholic, maybe the commander is a morose, beaten man who has survived too much on Oremor and is going through the motions out of loyalty to the survivors.
If we do go with the Oremor regiment, I'm thinking my sergeant will gradually tell the story of what they went through on that world to get to this point through his roleplay interactions. There may even be some mysteries revealed from the other campaign in this fashion, that I wouldn't otherwise be able to explore in DH.
Plus the links in continuity between eventually all three campaigns would be really neat.
Rad and Ellipsis, you may choose either to be from Oremor (w/the Penal Colony adjustments) OR receive adjustments from another homeworld (even one with a higher point cost such as Schola Progenium) for your character. However like your squad mates, you will still suffer from the reduced 15 point penalty regarding costs for additional equipment.
I'm fine with that. Can someone post a summary of the Schola Progenium attributes (since that is where most stormtroopers are trained) so I can make a decision?
Skills: All Progena characters are Trained in Common Lore (Imperial Guard), Common Lore (Imperium), Common Lore (War), and Linguistics (High Gothic).
Only In Death Does Duty End: Those that pass through the Schola Progenium are drilled each and every day by hardened drill abbots, and all are expected to defend the Emperor’s domain with their lives if necessary. All Progena may start with either Air of Authority or Unshakeable Faith.
Starting Wounds: Progena characters increase their starting
Wounds by +1.
I think a useful character, and interesting one to play would be a medic.
If we go for Chameleoline cloaks, and also take Hardened Fighters (I like it for the flavor, as penal legion wouldn't mind fighting dirty up close - plus the free weapon upgrade) - that leaves us with enough to upgrade to a two point commander.
For regimental loadout I'd suggest we spend at least 5 of the points upgrading the main weapon to a Lascarbine. Otherwise our Operator will be stuck with only a las pistol.
Characteristic rolls:
WS =
BS =
S =
T =
Ag =
Int =
Per =
WP =
Fel =
re-roll Int =
Still bad, but better. In general I rolled mostly below average. Radavel, I feel for your rolls, mine were about the same.
Hey Lorm (and Rad),
Feel free to use the alternate creation method (posted in the alternate rules spoiler up above) if you are unhappy with your rolls.
For example you can simply add 10 to each characteristic. And then use the left-over 10 points on characteristics important to your character-type.
WS = 20 + 10 = 30
BS = 20 + 10 = 30 + 5 = 35
S = 20 + 10 = 30
T = 20 + 10 = 30
Ag = 20 + 10 = 30
Int = 20 + 10 = 30 + 5 = 35
Per = 20 + 10 = 30
WP = 20 + 10 = 30
Fel = 20 + 10 = 30
Or feel free to drop some characteristics and increase others.
The only trouble I really have with the rolls, are the Int and Fel. Otherwise I could live with the rolls. The total spent when comparing it to the alternate method would have been 111 vs. 100, so I do not know if is worth using the alternate method. Plus, the average roll for 2d10 is 11, so most of your characteristics end up below average.
No prob, Lorm, totally your call. :)
I looked the numbers and decided what I should do, and ended up with these characteristics:
WS = 25
BS = 30
S = 25
T = 30
Ag = 35
Int = 35
Per = 35
WP = 30
Fel = 35
+ or - any bonuses and penalties that I do not know, Like the regiment or being a medic.
To make it easier for review / discussion, here's the proposed Regimental crunch to date (including my last suggestion on Training Doctrine):
Home World: Penal Colony (+3 to two of Agi / Str / Tough, Intimidate, Peer (Underworld) / Pity the Weak / Street Fighting, +10 on Logistics for illegal / contraband, 15 points only for Standard Regimental Kit, Starting Wounds +1)
Leader: Melancholic (Air of Authority)
Regiment Type: Reconnaissance Regiment (+3 Per, -3 Will, Awareness, Combat Sense, Scout Walker / Chimera, magnoculars)
Training Doctrine: Hardened Fighters (+2 WS, Street Fighting, replace standard melee with a Primary Weapon of Common availability OR apply mono-edged to standard melee weapon)
Special Equipment Doctrine: Chamoleoline (chameleoline cloaks or chameleoline-coated armor)
Regimental Loadout Upgrades: 15 points to spend
Upgrade Laspistol to Lascarbine - 5 points
Lorm - here's the Medic specialty:
Starting Aptitudes: Ballistic Skill, Fieldcraft, Intelligence, Knowledge, Perception, Willpower.
Starting Skills: Medicae, Scholastic Lore (Chymistry), Scrutiny or Trade (Chymist).
Starting Talents: Chem Geld or Jaded, Weapon Training (Las, Low-Tech).
Specialist Equipment: Diagnostor, Injector, Medikit.
Wounds: 8+1d5
Thanks Mark. I do have a question about aptitudes. do they affect anything at the creation phase?
Except for the leader, we get everything listed in the homeworld regiment and training doctrine, and medic specialty, correct?
W =
If what I said above is accurate, then my characteristics are now:
WS = 27
BS = 30
S = 28
T = 30
Ag = 38
Int = 40
Per = 38
WP = 27
Fel = 35
W = 11
You get everything listed under the regiment choices. The leader selection is more of a how the man up top influences his men, so a Melancholic regimental commander gives all IG under his command the Air of Authority.
Aptitudes only affect how cheap / expensive the character advances are. So they do affect character gen, as you get 600xp to spend initially as a Medic.
I have some more questions then about aptitude. I see the characteristics Per, BS, Int, & WP listed under medic, They would be 500 xp each, correct? Is Knowledge the set of skills or is it a secondary char of Int? What is fieldcraft? And if knowledge is a set of skills what would my cost? Same with fieldcraft.
Ok - starting with Characteristics. Each characteristic has an aptitude, but also has a second associated one (as per below).
Ballistic Skill -> Finesse
Strength -> Offence
Toughness -> Defence
Agility -> Finesse
Intelligence -> Knowledge
Perception -> Fieldcraft
Willpower -> Psyker
Fellowship -> Social
So as you see Fieldcraft is an aptitude that compliments Perception, and Knowledge for Intelligence.
With two aptitudes the XP costs for advances are 100xp -> 250xp -> 500xp -> 750xp; for a maximum characteristic boost of +20.
For one aptitude matching (say for BS for a Medic as you don't have Finesse) the XP costs are 500xp -> 750xp -> 1,000xp -> 1,250xp
And for no aptitude matches (like WS for a Medic): 750xp -> 1,250xp -> 1,750xp -> 2,500xp
So you can see that it's much cheaper to advance the characteristics that you have aptitudes for.
Similary skills have two aptitudes listed for them (for Medicae its Int + Fieldcraft, for Dodge its Agi + Defence, etc)
XP costs for Skills by number of aptitudes
Two 100 xp 200 xp 300 xp 400 xp
One 300 xp 600 xp 900 xp 1,200 xp
Zero 500 xp 1,000 xp 1,500 xp 2,000 xp
Talents also have aptitudes assigned to them that makes certain ones cheaper for some to buy.
Does that make reasonable sense?
Though melancholic might be a good fit from the flavor perspective, I really don't see most of us having a use for Air of Authority as a talent. Perhaps there is a choice which gives a less specialized starting talent?
Thanks again Mark. It hard when you don't have a copy in front of you.
So for a 100xp's each, I will raise my Int And Per +5 and raise my Int another +5 for 250 xp's, and medicae +10 for 100 xp's leaving 50 xp's unspent.
My Characteristics are now:
WS = 27
BS = 30
S = 28
T = 30
Ag = 38
Int = 50
Per = 43
WP = 27
Fel = 35
W = 11
The regiment’s commander is ill-tempered and paranoid,
continually suspicious of betrayal, and watchful of enemies and
allies alike. He regards vigilance as the greatest of virtues, and
encourages suspicion and watchfulness amongst his men.
Cost: 2 points
Starting Talents: Paranoia
Circumspect
The regiment’s commander is balanced in his attitudes and
careful in his decision-making, yet often overly cautious. His
demeanour encourages his men to similarly consider situations
before they strike, observing the battlefield before acting.
Cost: 2 points
Starting Talents: Foresight
Choleric
The regiment’s commander is decisive and leads from the front,
taking charge of situations personally, and never afraid to do
what he orders his men to do. However, he is quick to anger, and
can often be drawn into foolish actions. His men are continually
ready for action, and familiar with the rigours of battle.
Cost: 2 points
Starting Talents: Rapid Reaction
Maverick
The regiment’s commander is something of a rebel, regarded
as ill-disciplined and unpredictable by his peers, but his
attitude and his daring make him beloved by his men, who
see their leader as one of them, rather than one of “the
officers”. So long as he leads, they will follow him anywhere.
Cost: 2 points
Starting Talents: Resistance (Fear)
Sanguine
The regiment’s commander is confident and optimistic,
though sometimes too caught up in dreams of glory and
triumph. While inspirational to his men with grandiose
speeches and heroism, his ambition has often seen them faced
with impossible odds, caught up in their commander’s quest
for glory, and they must battle hard to survive.
Cost: 2 points
Starting Talents: Die Hard
Or there is the option to stick to phlegmatic, and choose a 3 point Training Doctrine instead.
Sanguine or circumspect wouldn't really fit from a flavor perspective but the others would work. Bilious, choleric, and maverick all give nice starting talents.
If we choose to take phlegmatic, I suggest we take favoured foe (For Oremor this would make sense.) The other leader I would suggest is Maverick, which would also make sense for Oremor.
Hmm it posted my rolls but not what I wrote. Man I hate using this dice roller.
To bad my rolls for WS and BS weren't reversed. Guess its a good thing my guy is a sniper. With his personality he needs to be away from everyone or he will end up shot Lol.
Also, I am open to sticking to phlegmatic commander and in this case would suggest we switch the training doctrine to Die-Hards.
A few things, guys:
1. Rook--I love the splash page for the wiki. As usual, great job. Thanks for doing that!
2. Mark--Thanks for taking time to explain rules, character creation, etc., for everyone. I may have gotten to it eventually but you have saved me time, explained it better than I could, and sped up the process considerably.
3. Bal--If your preference is Invisible Castle for rolling, please feel free to use that.
4. With regard to Commander choice, I'd love to see Melancholic or Phlegmatic. I'd hate to see the team make a choice that doesn't fit the flavor of the campaign just for the regimental bonus and would rather nerf things a bit.
Is there a substitute Talent for Air of Authority that would still "work" for the Melancholic commander? I'm open to proposals.
Really looking forward to this game!
Hmm - Air of Authority is a Tier 1, but some of the other 2 point commanders give Tier 2 talents.
How about
Aptitudes: Intelligence, Knowledge
Logic and analysis do for the character what animal entrails and the bones claim to do for the superstitious masses. By careful consideration of all the possible consequences and examination of all evidence and information, the character can identify the best path for success. By spending ten minutes studying or analysing a problem, the character gains a +10 bonus to his next Intelligence Test or a Skill Test based on Intelligence.
Works in with the whole think for themelves angle of Melancholic?
At the moment it looks like we're set for Regiment, Homeworld and Special Equipment Doctrine -> leaving just the Commander and Training Doctrine to go. At the moment it's a choice between:
1) Die Hards or Favored Foe and Phlegmatic (Common Lores)
and
2) Hardened Fighters (+WS, mono-knife and Street Fighting) and Maverick / Melancholic
1) Die Hards or Favored Foe and Phlegmatic (Common Lores)
and
2) Hardened Fighters (+WS, mono-knife and Street Fighting) and Maverick / Melancholic
Mark, I like Foresight as a possibility. I agree that has the proper feel for "figure it out on your own" since no one is telling you what to do. Consider Foresight as a substitute of Air of Authority for Melancholic if the team likes that better.
I'm open to hearing other ideas if people have them.
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I like Foresight also, substituting it in for Air of Authority works for me. I think it carries the whole independent thinking theme of Melancholic.
I have to admit, though, I think Die Hard and Hardened Fighters both would work extremely well with cockroach-esque tenacity of this unit and its penchant for surviving the worst situations.
Once again, thanks for summarizing everything Mark, it's been a huge help with visualizing this.
No problems Rook - it's easy for me as I have the PDF open and just copy-paste - plus it's helped me get a better handle on things.
To make the kit choices easier - here's an abridged list (we have 15 points to spend).
Improve a single item of standard kit wargear from Common Craftsmanship to Best Craftsmanship - 10
Replace Laspistol (Main Weapon) with Lascarbine (Main Weapon) - 5
Replace Lascarbine (Main Weapon) with M36 Lasgun (Main Weapon) - 5
Add an additional Knife - 2
Add a Laspistol and 2 charge packs as a sidearm - 5
Add an Autopistol and 2 clips as a sidearm - 8
Add a Stub Automatic and 2 clips as a sidearm - 8
Add a Stub Revolver and 12 bullets as a sidearm - 3
Add an additional Frag Grenade to standard kit - 5
Add an additional Smoke Grenade to standard kit - 5
Add an additional Krak Grenade to standard kit - 15
Add a chrono to standard kit - 2
Add a clip/drop harness to standard kit - 5
Add an additional uniform for field use to standard kit - 2
Add an additional uniform for dress or parade use to standard kit - 5
Add filtration plugs to standard kit - 5
Add the Munitorum Manual to standard kit - 3
Add a photo-visor or set of photo-contacts to standard kit - 8
Add preysense goggles to standard kit - 15
Add respirator or gas mask to standard kit - 8
Add survival suit to standard kit - 3
Add 1 dose of de-tox and an injector to standard kit - 15
Add a single advanced medikit to the squad as standard kit - 15
Add 2 weeks’ worth of additional ration packs to standard kit - 3
Add 1 dose of stimm and an injector to standard kit - 8
Add a single auspex or scanner to the squad as standard kit - 10
Add a grapnel to standard kit - 5
Add magnoculars to standard kit - 8
Add a micro-bead to standard kit - 8
Add a pict recorder to standard kit - 8
Add screamers (one box of 6) to the squad as standard kit - 10
Add a single stummer to standard kit - 8
The only thing I feel strongly about is upgrading from the pistol to a lascarbine - that way our Medic and Operator will at least have a decent gun to use.
Though survival suits would also make sense.
I have to admit, though, I think Die Hard and Hardened Fighters both would work extremely well with cockroach-esque tenacity of this unit and its penchant for surviving the worst situations.
That's fine, Rook, Phlegmatic is a great choice if you want more points for Training Doctrine. Just letting you know we can have a little flexibility if Melancholic is chosen. It's up to you guys!
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Well I can do with the pistol, but not the medic probably.
My suggestions for gear are
Las Pistol to Las Carbine 5pts
Las Pistol + 2 cartriges 5pts
Survival Suit 3pts
Chrono 2pts
We all get some extra gear from our "Specialties" that show up in the list.
I couldn't find Pity the Weak talent, which seems to be according to the forum the same as Black Crusade talent and use it like that.
There are no rules for Sentinels, but I can come up with something using the Eldar walker (if they have one, I got to check) as guide for the Scout Sentinel or Armored Sentinel.
Or we can just take the chimera so we can all move in a transport, which seems the most probable choice since it would benefit all and not just the Operator (poor lil' ol' me). I just noticed I have less wounds than everyone else ><