One Step Beyond

Game Master Lemmy Z

Welcome to Blue Shell Island - The Land of New Beginnings! Now try to make sure it doesn't bring your end as well... At least, not too soon.

Initiative for Current Combat:

Eitylen
Frederick
Dwarf Priest
Elf Archer
Stone Demon
Staff Orc
Jaazkara
Stone Warrior
Brother Cyrus
Scimitar Human

Round: 7
Current Turn: Eitylen & Frederick

Combat Rules:

Keep in mind that if you're next to each other in Initiative count, you can switch attack order if you want. If you post more or less simultaneously, I'll follow the "official" Initiative order and allow whoever goes second to change his action if something relevant happens (e.g.: the first guy kills the second guy's target).

Additionally, remember that you have 24h before I allow other players to control your character and 48h before I simply skip your turn. Similarly, if I don't post a creature's actions for 48h, you are allowed to consider I skipped its turn.

Last, but not least.. If I have to allow others to control your character or skip your turn twice in a row, I'll start allowing other players to decide your character's actions as soon as your turn comes up for the rest of the combat. I'll still wait 48h before skipping your turn, though.


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Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Detective v 1.0:

Full BaB: 6 points
2 Good saves (Fort and Will): 3 points
d8 HD: 1 point
6+Int skills: 3 points
Weapon Proficiency (Custom assortment): 2 points
Medium Armor: 2 points
Extracts: 6 points
Mutagen: 3 points

= 26/25

Weapons: Kukri, Machete, Starknife, Gandasa, Scimitar, Sword Cane, Bec de Corbin, Syringe Spear, Longbow, Shortbow, Falcata, Whip, Bola, Brutal Bola, Hand Crossbow

Trying to figure out what I should drop ATM. Unless we wanted to hash out right now what the new costs for casting should be.

Simple solution:

6 level casting, no buy-in.

Divine casting, 1 point buy-in.

Arcane casting, 2 point buy-in.

Then the same for progression?

6 level casting, equal to spell level.

Divine casting, 1.5x spell level (2 points at 1st)

Arcane casting, 2x spell level.

Since I think your main complaint (Lemmy) was that Divine and Arcane cost the same, but don't exactly deliver the same?


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Hmmm... Hex Channeler seems like an exploit to get both Hex and Channel Energy without paying for the latter... Take them separately...

Additionally, while I won't change it (at least not without further consideration and hearing your opinions)... I'm starting to think Divine Grace is way too good in FFCS. There is zero reason not to take it, as it pretty much garantees the character won't ever fail a save, especially if it's based on an attribute that already boosts your saves.

I'm not a fan of SoL spells, but I'd also like offensive spell to remain a threat.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10
Rynjin wrote:

Trying to figure out what I should drop ATM. Unless we wanted to hash out right now what the new costs for casting should be.

Simple solution:

6 level casting, no buy-in.

Not a good idea... 6-level casting is probably the strongest option in FFCS in its current form.

Rynjin wrote:
TSince I think your main complaint (Lemmy) was that Divine and Arcane cost the same, but don't exactly deliver the same?

Actually my main complain is that the cost progresses at a different rate than the point gain, which guarantees the system will break sooner or later... Either you save a bunch of points for something you'll never use (say, you expected to reach 9th level spells, but the game ended at 15th level) or you stop being able to advance your casting (e.g.: the game goes beyond 20th level).

And in either case, leveling up is really freaking boring for full casters. You can never select new class features... Which kinda defeats the whole point of FFCS.

The disparity in spell list power is also a concern, of course (e.g.: why grab the Magus or Ranger spell lists when you can pay the same for the Wizard or Hunter one?), but more easily fixable... And a simple rule of restricting spell list to their original accompanying BAB progressions should help a lot to balance the.


Male Goblin Vivisectionist Trap Breaker 10
Lemmy wrote:

Hmmm... Hex Channeler seems like an exploit to get both Hex and Channel Energy without paying for the latter... Take them separately...

Not trying to get hexes to be completely honest. I intend to use the Class feature solely for Channeling. Paying more points for better channeling. (5 as opposed to 3)


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10
Scavion wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Hmmm... Hex Channeler seems like an exploit to get both Hex and Channel Energy without paying for the latter... Take them separately...
Not trying to get hexes to be completely honest. I intend to use the Class feature solely for Channeling.

Then why not simply take Channel Energy and save 2 points?


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Not sure how to fix that without undervaluing casting.

Maybe make it a 3/4/5 point purchase at every "up level"?

So:

6 level casting: 3 points at 1st, 4th, 7th, 10th, 13th, and 16th?

Full Divine: 4 at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, etc.

Full Arcane: 5 at 1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, etc.

Or maybe 5 for all.

I don't really like the idea of restricting based on BaB, but maybe on one "step". Ful casting is 3/4 BaB max, while 6th can hit Full if they want.

I made Leng because there's a lot of great "throw down in melee" spells that are Personal only on the Wizard list, but they can't use them.


Male Goblin Vivisectionist Trap Breaker 10
Lemmy wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Hmmm... Hex Channeler seems like an exploit to get both Hex and Channel Energy without paying for the latter... Take them separately...
Not trying to get hexes to be completely honest. I intend to use the Class feature solely for Channeling.
Then why not simply take Channel Energy and save 2 points?

Increasing the amount of Channel Energy dice through Extra Hex.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10
Rynjin wrote:
Not sure how to fix that without undervaluing casting.

A fixed price could do it... But I suggested that before, so I assume you don't like the idea.

How about... Dividing the point gain into 3 separate models?

model 1 - Gains full BAB and up to 4th level casting: 5pts per level.
model 2 - Gains medium BAB and up to either 6th level casting or to 9th level divine casting: 5pts per level. gains... 2 or 3 points per level
model 3 - Gains slow BAB and any casting of choice... 1 point per level...

Well... In hindsight, this is basically the same thing as a having a fixed price... So... I don't know. :P


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10
Scavion wrote:
Increasing the amount of Channel Energy dice through Extra Hex.

That... Might make Channel Energy a bit too powerful, though... I don't really mind having good healers, but the campaign itself already gives a pretty big boost to channeling, with you adding your level to heal, getting more uses as you level up and being able to increase the die size.

Let me think on that one...


Male Goblin Vivisectionist Trap Breaker 10
Lemmy wrote:
Scavion wrote:
Increasing the amount of Channel Energy dice through Extra Hex.

That... Might make Channel Energy a bit too powerful, though... I don't really mind having good healers, but the campaign itself already gives a pretty big boost to channeling, with you adding your level to heal, getting more uses as you level up and being able to increase the die size.

Let me think on that one...

I have to use either feats and/or my hex progression to up the channel dice. The hex channeler doesn't increase it for free.

I'll respect any decision you make however, it's not a dealbreaker for me in any way.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3
Lemmy wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Not sure how to fix that without undervaluing casting.

A fixed price could do it... But I suggested that before, so I assume you don't like the idea.

I don't remember that. What was the price(s)?


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

I do think the thing I listed earlier could work.

It halves the cost and staggers them out across levels evenly.

What do you think of the 3/4/5 plan? Or even 5 across the board, though that would make Spontaneous Arcane and Prepared 6 level cost the same per levels, which seems off.

I think in that case, 4 points is fair for 4 and 6 level casting, and 5 for full.

So that would make the cost:

4 level casting: 16 points

6 level casting: 24 points

9 level casting: 45 points

Basically, halving the cost of spellcasting entirely.

This is a double edged sword. It allows for diversity with casting and cool abilities, but it DOES up the general power level.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10
Rynjin wrote:
Lemmy wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Not sure how to fix that without undervaluing casting.
A fixed price could do it... But I suggested that before, so I assume you don't like the idea.
I don't remember that. What was the price(s)?

-.-'

Lemmy wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
Yes, but what lists cost what?

Well... My suggestion would be:

Full casters list: 5 buy in; 4 pts per level (total 85 pts - 71% of your total points)
Half-casters: 5 buy in; 2 pts per level (total 45 pts - 37.5% of your total points)
Pseudo-casters: 3 buy in; 1 pt per level (total 19~23 pts - 16~21% of your total points)

Maybe full-caster lists could have different costs for arcane and divine spell lists (e.g.: divine full casters costing 3 points per level or arcane casters having a higher buy in), but I think that'd be unnecessary and possibly unbalanced.

The ability to spontaneously cast Cure/Summon Nature Ally spells should probably be given freely to the appropriate spell lists, and maybe sold separately for 1 or 3 pts for those who want it.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Ah. That could work, yeah.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Actually, shouldn't that be 81 points, 43 points, and 22 points?

Like, 9 points at 1st level for full casting is pretty harsh. Clerics become impossible to build, for instance.

3/4 BaB: 3
2 good saves: 3
2+Int skills: Free
d8 HD: 1
Simple weapons: Free
Medium Armor: 2
Domains: 5
Channel: 3
Spontaneous Casting: 1
Casting: 9

27/25

And still one point off if you make Spont casting free.

Ad there's no wiggle room for something like better skills or a higher HD, or more weapons. Should probably leave it at just the buy-in at 1st. Otherwise, I think it might work better, yeah.

You want to try it? This would be effective across Myrial as well.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Detective v 1.1:

Full BaB: 6 points
2 Good saves (Fort and Will): 3 points
d8 HD: 1 point
6+Int skills: 3 points
Weapon Proficiency (Custom assortment): 2 points
Light Armor: 1 point
Extracts: 5 points
Mutagen: 3 points

= 24/25 (1st level)
---------------------------
Extracts: 2 points
Ceaseless Observation (Empiricist archetype): 2 points

= 28/30 (2nd level)
---------------------------
Extracts: 2 points
Canny Defense (Kensai Magus): 1 point (?)
Investigator Talent (Expanded Inspiration): 2 points

= 33/35 (3rd level)
----------------------------
Extracts: 2 points
Studied Combat: 5 points

= 40/40 (4th level)

Weapons: Kukri, Machete, Starknife, Gandasa, Scimitar, Sword Cane, Bec de Corbin, Syringe Spear, Longbow, Shortbow, Falcata, Whip, Bola, Brutal Bola, Hand Crossbow

I put a (?) by Canny Defense because I wanted your input. My judgement was that it was inferior to some other, similar abilities that already cost 3 points, or are part of a bundle. Namely, Nimble (Gunslinger), AC Bonus (Brawler) and the Monk AC Bonus, which either freely scale by level, or do that AND add a stat. Do you agree, or should I bump the price up?


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Hey, guys... Sorry I've been absent the last few days, but it's been difficult to find the time to sit in front of my PC. I'm mostly only making quick pots from my cel phone these days.

Work and family have been taking a lot of my time, and one of my friends is going through a really rough patch right now...

I believe things will calm down starting tomorrow night, so I'll be back to posting by then.

Sorry the sudden hiatus.


HEY! I'm back from vacation dealing with some family affairs. Sorry I didn't notify you guys.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

You spent your vacation with Scavion?! Willingly??!!

XD

I kid of course... Scavion is a cool guy... I'd visit him.... And then beat the crap out of him in Marvel vs Capcom!


Yeah he's my bro! Was visiting family and friends.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

I know, I know... I'm just joking.

...Except about the part of beating him in UMvC3! Wesker would kick his armored goblinoid ass! XD


Male Goblin Vivisectionist Trap Breaker 10
Lemmy wrote:

I know, I know... I'm just joking.

...Except about the part of beating him in UMvC3! Wesker would kick his armored goblinoid ass! XD

Last I checked Zero was still pretty nuts.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10
Scavion wrote:
Lemmy wrote:

I know, I know... I'm just joking.

...Except about the part of beating him in UMvC3! Wesker would kick his armored goblinoid ass! XD

Last I checked Zero was still pretty nuts.

Indeed... That only shows how much better I'm. ;D


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Ah! My bad! I thought I had already replied to these questions before the short hiatus during which I couldn't post.

Scavion:

- You can use the Inquisitor spell list if you want. I don't mind. If you're making it prepared, I think your best option is using thr Warpriest's table for prepared spells per day.
- I'd like input from everyone to know what you think about Channeling Hex... While it's not gam breaking, having a character who can heal everyone (possibly twice per round) for[ (character level)*d10 + character level] might be problematic... I'm leaning towards allowing it, but I'm unsure of what would be the effect on combat.

Rynjin

- Remember my unarmed & unarmored class variant? For Canny Defense, I suggest you make it something similar to that and charge the same cost of the equivalent armor proficiency.
- Clerics are already impossible to build due to having to save 8 points at 1st level (in addition to the initial 6 pts for spell casting). Also, unless I made a mistake, it should be a total cost of 85 for full casting (5 buy-in + 4 pts per level x 20 levels). I suppose lowering the buy-in to 4 pts and giving spontaneous casting for free to the appropriate spell lists should work.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Lots o' healing probably isn't going to be TOO problematic, except for prolonging fights where we flail around and nobody gets anything but lucky hits. I.E. all of them.

I don't remember your Unarmed/Armored class, no.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Well... I'll allow Scavion's healing... If nothing else, it works as a test. If it turns out to be too much of a problem, we can rework it later, but I'm willing to at least give it a chance.

On the unarmes/unarmores variant... You can find it in my list of house-rulea, but the quick version of the AC bonus was like this:

At 1st level, the character switches his armor proficiency for a Dodge bonus to AC. If all he haw is Light armor, he adds a bonus equal to one of hia mental attributes, if he's proficient with Medium armor, the bonus raises by +1 for every 8 levels in the class, if he has Heavy armor proficiency, it instead raises by +1 for every 4 levels.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Ah. So it costs the same as armor?

So my 2 point cost variant is stat +1 for 8 levels. Cool.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Yup. It's a Dodge bonus, though... Admitedly, it wasn't created with FFCS in mind, so it might be a tad too cheap... But that goes for everthing else as well...


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Sorry, can't post today... I'll try and do it tomorrow morning"


You have to tell your girlfriends that you need some time for you hobbys.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Or boyfriends. We don't judge.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

All my girlfriends are very understanding and accomodating... With them being imaginary and all... XD

It's work that's been eating up my RPG time.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

So... I'm temporarily without access to the internet. It should br bacl by Tuesday or Wednessday... I'll try to post from my friend's house, though...


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Uh... Did everyone decide to take a break from PbP or something?


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

I think Nicos has been busy, and I don't know what Scavion and his brother are up to.


Yeah, my new job have just drained my soul, I'm very stressed doing the bureaucracy for a Visa and I have the flu since friday.


And as DM I just don't have a fresh mind to make new posts at the moment. I've been staring that the screen for 4 minutes and my mind can't find the words.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3
Nicos wrote:
Yeah, my new job have just drained my soul, I'm very stressed doing the bureaucracy for a Visa and I have the flu since friday.

That's rough.


The flu is gone. I did the first exam to the class the friday, the average note was like 3,5/10, not sure if that is good or bad for me.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3
Nicos wrote:
The flu is gone. I did the first exam to the class the friday, the average note was like 3,5/10.

What do you teach again?

And where?


physics 1 this time, and first time as the main lecturer.

note very informative link: http://www.uniandes.edu.co/


btw, I promise to post in BS and the other campaign this weekend, I first have to finish doing all the papers for the visa so I can recover my peace of mind.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Cool. Wouldn't want you to get deported.


well, If I don't get the visa my advisor will kill me with his own hands.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

BTW, I don't know if I'll be able to post this weekend. I plan to spend the weekend watching Evo with my friends. Evo is our geeky Superbowl!


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Level up, everyone.


Elf Hp 41/41; AC 21 (Touch 16, FF 16 ); CMD 18 ; Fort+4, Ref: +10, WIll:+3; Low-light vision; Perception +8 ; Sense motive +8; Initiative +6
Spoiler:
[dice]10+13;1d4+7[/dic ]

Done, I choose the easy options.


Male Human Monk 5 (Qinggong Master of Many Styles from the Sacred Mountain)/Fighter (Brawler) 3

Can I make a confession?

I actually find FFCS to be very tiring to use. I dunno why.


Elf Hp 41/41; AC 21 (Touch 16, FF 16 ); CMD 18 ; Fort+4, Ref: +10, WIll:+3; Low-light vision; Perception +8 ; Sense motive +8; Initiative +6
Spoiler:
[dice]10+13;1d4+7[/dic ]

Too many options.


Male Human Dungeon Master 10/ Munchkin 10

Uh... Do you want switch back to standard PF and use homebrew archetypes to create characters similar to what you have now?

I like FFCS, and after you have a nice vision of what you want, it isn't all that tiresome (specially if like me, you keep a Excel file with notes on what you want to take at what levels and how much it costs. :P)

I'm okay either way, but I do enjoy creating FFCS characters and NPCs.

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