Never Deal with a Shoggoth: A CthulhuPunk Shadowrun Story

Game Master Loup Blanc

Conserve your sanity, run when you need to, and never, EVER pick up the strange book.


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Greetings, chummers! Glad that you've made it this far and I'm looking forward to the game. Discussion is where we'll have out of character chatter and such for the game, and you can ask questions and the like here. For now just post in to say hey to everyone, and I'll be putting up Gameplay in the coming days, hopefully not long at all, to kick things off.

For now we can use the space to get acquainted and I'll go over character sheets once more to ask questions for people if any need answered.


Female Human

Hello hello. Just checking in.


Thank you for the invite, I'm honored!

I'll work on putting up a more detailed and easier to read character sheet later today!

Given that the characters are getting drawn in through being at the same place at the wrong time, it's not necessary to know one another before hand. However, is there anything that you as the GM would like me to change in order to link him, unknowingly, to another character?

As it currently stands he doesn't know who his "enemy" is, though he has a vague idea that "people" are actively trying to stop him from finding things out. Or at least he thinks they are. (In this case, he's right, but that doesn't mean he hasn't burned his share of bridges as well.)

His lost loved one is a sister as described in his background, but that can be shifted around easily enough.

And his latest contact to dry up is a talismonger, though looking at the rest of the group, I doubt any would know them. At least professionally. ;)

Dark Archive

Human

As Nicholas Sarge entered the room the first thing he noticed was the smell. A mellow mixture of roses, gunsmoke and oil, with a touch of danger all over it. The peculiar scent of Victoria Bateson

He knew a buttonwoman when he saw one, but never has he seen one with such a cute envelope. Fool cops always get attracted to bad chicks, and Nick was the foolest... Boston still had surprises for the man in the coat, it seems.

Hoi, bos! First of all, yay. I was really hoping to get selected. Not only did I find Shadowrun to be extremely amusing-looking, but it isn't always you find a game with a theme that calls you or a character you thrill to play.

I will go over Nicholas' stuff to make sure everything is green to go -and to add his legal licenses-.

@Phineas: If you are looking forward to add connections with other characters to your background, give me a ring. I mean, your name is too damned Irish to pass it. It's a match made in the distillery.
Plus if your Lost Loved One is literally Lost but not enjoying the Big Sleep,he may have helped you as a PI.


Female Troll

Thanks for the invite, Loup! This is my first time actually playing Shadowrun, so I'm warning you I'm probably going to make many horrible mistakes.

Are Nick Sarge's inner thoughts permanently stuck in PI Monologue Mode? :P

Dark Archive

Human

I did not look for nice Noir Slang dictionaries for nothing, so they will probably be.

That said, they will totally be while I can come up with them. If I find myself struggling, I can go back to "Mama Smith knew I should have be a lawyer" mode and "I haven't drank enough for this shit" style.


Nicholas "Nick Sarge" Smith wrote:


@Phineas: If you are looking forward to add connections with other characters to your background, give me a ring. I mean, your name is too damned Irish to pass it. It's a match made in the distillery.
Plus if your Lost Loved One is literally Lost but not enjoying the Big Sleep,he may have helped you as a PI.

I think it's actually best if we don't know each other ahead of time. There are rather large amount of Irish in Boston. (Though Phineas is actually only half Irish. the other half is Pakistani.) I was thinking more that some of us might know someone that knows someone that knows another person in the group.

Like, perhaps, my sister called you up for some work a couple years or so ago but you decided not to take the case. So a very minor link, but an interesting coincidence, nonetheless. You might even not remember it (or at least her name.) As long as that fits with the game. It might be best if we had no connections prior to meeting.

Dark Archive

Human

"Madigan... that word rings some bells, bo. But it was a prettier face, an angel's one. I remember her smile, almost drove me to an alley I would have regretted like hell. The lady smelled of sulfur, energy and college... she was a mage, there was no doubt."

"I can't remember what she wanted, but rule #1 on Investigating is never to fiddle in the arcane. That always ends as a net loss."

I like the "met your sister but rejected the case" thing. I like it a lot.


Yeah, in terms of connections, you guys can vaguely know one another if you like, but it also works well if you don't. You'll come together because your characters are, at the moment, on a downstreak--why do you think you're at the Stuffer Shack, of all places? You're down on luck, down on nuyen, and sooner or later you'll need to pay the rent and utilities. When fate comes a-knockin' with a job in store, you'll all (hopefully) take it because you need to. Thus, a running team is born!

But yeah, some connections between characters that they may not even know about would be very fitting. I too like the "Phineas's sister had a case but Nick didn't take it" angle, things like that will build relationships as you guys "discover" them in gameplay. As far as linked Enemies or anything like that, don't worry--I'm a sadistic good GM, and I'll have fun using those alone or in combination.


I cleaned up and added a bunch of info to Phineas' character sheet. There's a description at the beginning and I piled all the character creation info at the end so it doesn't clutter up the already info overwhelmed sheet that Shadowrun characters have. ;)


Female Human

While Victoria probably wouldn't have met any of you before, her dad is as close to a big name as you can get while being a Runner. Anyone who's got experience pulling jobs might have heard of him before. Maybe met him once.


One quick thing that I noticed while scanning some character sheets:
Remember that you don't keep the nuyen you have left over after buying gear. Every 100ny left over gives you a +1 on your starting cash roll (which is based off of whatever lifestyle you purchased and the maximum bonus is three times the number of dice rolled.)

For example, Phineas has a low lifestyle so his starting nuyen is 3d6x50. He has no leftover money, so it's a straight roll with no modifier.
Starting Nuyen: 3d6 ⇒ (3, 5, 5) = 13

So Phineas has 650ny to his name.


Female Troll

Wealth: 3d6 ⇒ (4, 3, 6) = 13


Alrighty, taking a bit closer look at character sheets, I've noticed a couple of things:

Sylvie "Gauntlet" Staite:
-You've got 5 too many points of positive qualities. You can only start with 35.
-For Adept powers, the Way allows you to discount one power for every two power points you have, not all of the powers.

As for recommendations: I *highly* recommend that you use your adept powers to increase Agility more than anything else. It's how you hit and connecting is way more important to a martial artist than how hard they hit. (And being a Troll, you're going to hit hard anyway.) Other things are nitpicky "efficiency" things, like maxing out Magic and having skills at Rank 2 or specializations. These are inefficient from a mechanical perspective, but not bad choices by any means.

Victoria "Nix" Bateson:
-The only thing I noticed was the 8000ny left over and the lack of a Lifestyle.

Nicholas "Nick Sarge" Smith:
-The only thing I can see is that you don't have a commlink. In this edition they're basically like your smartphone. (Well, not even basically, they *are* your smartphone.) It's how you do all business, calling, texting, or any interface at all. You really only need a cheap one with some really basic programs. But a Commlink, an OS, and maybe an accessory or two and the "Basic User" suite of programs are pretty much required to function in the world.


Female Troll

Alright, should be good meow.


Female Human

Right. Using the Lifestyle rules in Runner's Companion, I have a low lifestyle apartment, with massively upgraded security. That costs 4400ny total, and technically makes it a middle lifestyle. So:

4d6 + 4 ⇒ (5, 5, 5, 2) + 4 = 21 x100 = 2100ny


Female Human

Whoops. Actually 2900¥.


Male Elf Shadowrunner
Spoiler:
Physical Damage: 0/11 | Stun Damage: 0/10 | Melee Defense: 10 | Ranged Defense: 6 | Initiative: 9 (2), Matrix Initiative: 9/10 (2/3) | Perception: 9

Starting Wealth: 4d6 + 12 ⇒ (2, 4, 1, 1) + 12 = 20

So, starting with 2,000 nuyen.

Also, hey everyone!


Phineas, thanks for taking a look at sheets. I'll be wrapping up doing that myself a bit later tonight, but as I recall you pointed out most of the things I noticed and noted during selection. Don't think there'll be all that much more to finish up, and then we'll get things started!


Sylvie "Gauntlet" Staite wrote:
Alright, should be good meow.

Hrm, I might be screwing up my own math, but it looks off still:

Adept (5)
-Way of the Warrior (10)
Mentor Spirit: Bear (5)
Martial Arts: Boxing 2 (10)
Toughness (10)

For a total of 40? Is that right? Or are one of these listed with the wrong cost? (Or maybe you meant Martial Arts 1?)

And I think your Adept powers are still over, sadly.
Improved Reflexes 3 (3.0 with the discount)
Killing Hands (0.5)
Critical Strike 4 (1.0)
Improved Ability [Combat]: Unarmed Combat 2 (1.0)
Improved Ability: Body 2 (1.125 with the discount)
Improved Ability: Strength 2 (1.125)

For a total of 7.75. The discount is 25% for any three powers (since you have a Magic of 6), not half, which is what I think you did?

I'd suggest this setup:
Improved Reflexes 3 (3.0 with the discount)
Killing Hands (0.5)
Critical Strike 4 (0.75 with the discount)
Improved Ability [Combat]: Unarmed Combat 2 (1.0)
Combat Sense 2 (0.75 with the discount)

Improved Ability is *way* more expensive than it needs to be. And using it on attributes that you're already good at is a rather large amount invested for a very small return. Combat Senses are, quite frankly, awesome. No one else in the game gets that ability. It's that cool. If you're really bent on improving attributes, I'd suggest Boost Attribute, but only at Rank 1 for any given attribute. A higher rating increases the drain faster than the return. (You get 1 die, which will succeed 1/3rd of the time, for +1 drain, which is bad.) But a Rating 1 boost paired with a 6 Magic is actually pretty good.


Female Troll

I could have sworn that the Way of the Warrior cost 5 and gave me a 50% discount. Thanks for the advice!

I was actually trying to focus on pumping my damage so I could compete with the ranged specialist. I'd prefer to keep it at 11, but I'd have to get rid of a rank of Boxing. Or maybe I should get rid of Toughness, put another rank into Dodge, and put a spec on my Pistols skill? And holy crap, I've never actually looked at Combat Sense thoroughly. I thought it was just for reaction tests. Definitely going with your suggested setup.


For skills, I'd actually suggest dropping Dodge and Pistols to 1 and upping Automatics to 4 with no specialization. (That costs less in BP than the setup that you have and specializations are much cheaper after character creation.) Alternatively, you could drop Automatics and Pistols to 1 and increase Dodge to 4. This is how I would go. If she's firing a weapon, we either don't care if she hits, or we're in *way* too deep anyway.

You could even buy a maneuver for your Boxing with the two BP you save.

Advice for Armor (and this is in general for everyone):
Armor is tricky thing in Shadowrun. You can kind of stack some, but some are easier than others. Body is the attribute you're looking at when stacking, so Trolls do this better than most. I'd suggest taking a look at Form-fitting Body Armor. With an Armor Jacket, FFBA full suit, and your motorcycle helmet, you'd have a Ballistic Armor of 16 and an Impact of 11. (FFBA is in Arsenal, by the way.) Now, to be fair, armor isn't all that effective in Shadowrun. So while the numbers look high, incoming damage generally outpaces armor. With that said, higher is always better!


Female Troll

Ooo, thank you! That does seem like it could work well in my favor. Full Defense is a complex action, right?

Alright, just want to make sure I have my stuff done right since I switched up a few things:

1) I noticed that I was 20 BP short of having max on my normal stats, so when I got rid of Toughness, I put that extra 10 BP into Reaction.

2) I also noticed that I miscalculated my Magic cost, so I rejiggered a few things around so that it matched.

3) I must have made a serious mistake in my calculations for my Damage Resistance pools, because it was much lower that it should be. Just to make sure:

Full Armor is Body (8/8) + Armor Jacket (8/4) + Helmet (2/2) + Bear Spirit (2/2) + Dermal Armor, for a total of 21/19. Is that right?

Also checking for my dodge pools:

1. Ranged dodge is 10d, right, because 8 Reaction and 2 Combat Sense?
2. Melee block is 18d, right, because 8 Reaction, 8 Unarmed, and 2 Combat Sense?


Yep, I'd echo most of what Phineas has been saying. I'd also honestly advise that Gauntlet drop Toughness if she needs to drop a Quality. She has a lot of dice to resist damage already, and while more is always better, focusing on damage output will probably help a little more in the long run, and seems more her style anyway.

Dodge isn't all that useful to you, honestly: you can use Unarmed Combat to block melee attacks, and to get Dodge to avoid firearms you have to spend your action doing that, so you're better off just geeking folks as quickly as you can and soaking the damage when possible because, well, murder-troll.


Female Troll

Alright. I believe I have everything in order. And a truly ridiculous soak pool when in running gear.


Sylvie "Gauntlet" Staite wrote:

Ooo, thank you! That does seem like it could work well in my favor. Full Defense is a complex action, right?

Alright, just want to make sure I have my stuff done right since I switched up a few things:

1) I noticed that I was 20 BP short of having max on my normal stats, so when I got rid of Toughness, I put that extra 10 BP into Reaction.

2) I also noticed that I miscalculated my Magic cost, so I rejiggered a few things around so that it matched.

3) I must have made a serious mistake in my calculations for my Damage Resistance pools, because it was much lower that it should be. Just to make sure:

Full Armor is Body (8/8) + Armor Jacket (8/4) + Helmet (2/2) + Bear Spirit (2/2) + Dermal Armor, for a total of 21/19. Is that right?

Also checking for my dodge pools:

1. Ranged dodge is 10d, right, because 8 Reaction and 2 Combat Sense?
2. Melee block is 18d, right, because 8 Reaction, 8 Unarmed, and 2 Combat Sense?

I really can't recommend Chummer enough. But trying to recreate the character in that, it shows you as 10 BP over on attributes with that spread. I think you only paid 20 for 3 points of Body? (Start at a 5 and end at an 8.)

Also, to have a specialization in English you need to either spend one of your free Knowledge ranks or 2 (yeah, 2!) BP.

So all in all, Chummer is saying that you're 2 BP over and 10 too many points in Attributes.

Damage Resistance Pools:
The end result looks right but you short changed your armor jacket impact by 2. (Though your final total is, indeed, 19). With FFBA that could be 27/21. :P

To be fair, this is, indeed what happens when you put a Troll in armor and spend resources on being even tougher.


Female Troll

Lessee... yeah, you're right. I also removed my two ranks in Dodge and got rid of the English spec.

I spent the 8 BP on:

5 (restricted gear to get Full Body Armor)
1 (nuyen)
2 (pistol spec)


Female Troll

Just idle curiosity, but I'm guessing that we aren't well-known enough yet in the running community to actually be on JackPoint, right?


Sylvie "Gauntlet" Staite wrote:

Lessee... yeah, you're right. I also removed my two ranks in Dodge and a point from Fix-It's Loyalty for 8 spare BP, and got rid of the English spec.

I spent the 8 BP on:

5 (restricted gear to get Full Body Armor)
1 (nuyen)
2 (pistol spec)

Oh, I'd highly recommend Form-fitting Full Body Suit (Arsenal pg. 48) instead of the Full Body Armor. First, it wouldn't require restricted gear. Second, it stacks with your Armor Jacket. Also, you can throw some non-conductivity on it to counter those shock attacks that armor won't block. Not that you need more resistance dice. And also, it's not nearly as noticeable as walking in to a building with security or military armor on.

Edit: I just noticed that you added both. That can work too. :)

Oh, I hadn't noticed this before, but you have smartgun systems on your weapons, but no way to use it. I suggest putting a Smartlink and an Image Link in your helmet along with a skinlink (in your weapons and your helmet) in order to use them without having to go through your commlink.

The setup I'd suggest is:
Goggles (Rating 6) - Installed in the helmet.
-Flare Compensation
-Image Link
-Smartlink
-Skinlink
-Vision Magnification
-Low-light
Availability 12R, 1,125ny

Smartlinks are a bit complicated. They require a smartgun system in the weapon, and some sort of smartlink/image link system to use them properly. And some way for those systems to speak to each other. You used to have to plug into them. These days you can use skinlinks, or wireless. Given your commlink isn't being run by a hacker, skinlinks are the way to go. Skinlinks are so useful that 5th edition just does away with them entirely.


Female Troll

Ah, thank you. I'll take your word for it, then, and I do have the budget for the setup-barely. Although I don't believe I need low-light, since as a troll I get thermographic vision.

Another question for our esteemed GM: Are you planning on running this more Pink Mohawk style or Black Trenchcoat?


Female Troll

Hmmm... Do Maneuvers count as Positive Qualities?


Gauntlet wrote:
Just idle curiosity, but I'm guessing that we aren't well-known enough yet in the running community to actually be on JackPoint, right?

Yes, that's true, in a way. I just enjoy the idea of JackPoint as a virtual hangout for runners to use, and I sometimes play with just the way it's established within the game world. I often end up including sort of "off-brand" JackPoint servers that other runners use, which aren't necessarily connected to the main JackPoint we see the canonical, iconic runners using, but works in much the same manner. This is probably because my first Shadowrun GM did a similar thing for our group, and it's stuck with me as a neat thing to have in a Shadowrun game.

So no, you aren't in the real JackPoint with the famous runners, but you are (or soon can be) involved with a "JackPoint" node for lower-tier shadow stuff.

Gauntlet wrote:
Are you planning on running this more Pink Mohawk style or Black Trenchcoat?

Hmm. I love a blend of the two, but I imagine this one may lend itself more toward Black Trenchcoat, at least at times, due to the subject matter and overall concept. Still, expect a fair share of weird and fun things going on as well. I've used some definite Pink Mohawk stuff in games in the past, although not necessarily in Shadowrun. I think my most obvious to date that I can think of right now was a den of raiders in a Fallout game who were running a Communist-themed discotech nightclub with contraband music.

Not that I'd do that here.


Heh, you definitely don't need low-light but it can still be useful. But yeah, it's certainly dropable.

This checking also made me notice something about Paladin, Nick, and Nix's sheets. Paladin and Nix both have smartlinks but no skinlinks in their weapons/receivers. This isn't actually a huge issue since both have decent (more than decent, really) commlinks to run them through with wireless. Just something to note. Nick, of course, has no commlink. You could get a datajack and plug in the old fashioned way. ;)

For Nix: If she's wearing FFBA and the Actioneer Business Clothes at the same time she'll take an Agility and Reaction hit. Your limit is Bodx2 (6) and the armor stacking is 5 (for the Actioneer) + 3 (half of the FFBA). A Bod of 3 leaves people in a really weird place


Female Troll

It might be an interesting narrative reward if we become famous enough (in the runner community at least) to get invited on JackPoint. Plus, it would be a blast to interact with some of the characters on there. Some of my favorites in all of literature.


Female Timelady Nerd 3/Geek 2/Whovian 13/Writer 2

After reading his will, I think Dunkelzahn has displaced the JackPointers.

Dark Archive

Human

With all the interest generated I have no option but to readjust my gear. I think I fancy an older model of commlink, but worry not about my smartgun... I have an eye on it ;)


Heh, yeah, just remember, for a smartlink you need a smartgun system in the weapon, a smartlink and image link, and a way for the two to communicate. That's either through a commlink (wireless), a skinlink, or a direct plug. The last being super old-school.

So you've got a smartgun in your gun, and an image link and smartlink in your cybereyes, but you need a way for them to talk to each other. An old commlink might not be the best way as I'd expect that commlink to get hacked at least once in a while, but a skinlink on that weapon should do it. I mean, who cares if they break into your bank account and steal the ten script you got left in there. If they hack your gun, that's when things get serious. :P


Male Elf Shadowrunner
Spoiler:
Physical Damage: 0/11 | Stun Damage: 0/10 | Melee Defense: 10 | Ranged Defense: 6 | Initiative: 9 (2), Matrix Initiative: 9/10 (2/3) | Perception: 9

Actually, one of the reasons I had Nathaniel purchase a datajack was because I thought it'd be an interesting twist if he were to use a fiber-optic cable for his smartgun system, just like they used to in the old days; I'm still debating on that, but it's something I'm considering, to be sure. My commlink is pretty well protected though, so he may stick with that. Nick, I'd also suggest going with a skinlink, since it's not something you can really hack. Also, given the noir stereotype you're going for I figured I'd mention that it's not difficult to turn the Ruger Super Warhawk into a palatable weapon for combat; the book Arsenal has rules for modifying weapons, and you can easily get access to a semi-automatic revolver firing high-caliber rounds with an eight-shot cylinder. It's not really the kind of thing you'd have now, but for the future...

Also, JackPoint is still certainly around. A number of splats have the inside cover featuring a graphic of you "logging in" to a JackPoint node, and plenty of the older, high-profile names still post there. Although, depending on how canon you treat Dragonfall, one of the regular posters might actually be a hyper-powerful AI that ate him and is using his consciousness. Who knows?

Sovereign Court

*shuffles in nervously like a self-conscious middle-schooler standing naked before a podium about to deliver a speech to the entire school about something that she doesn't actually know that much about*

Um...hi guys! =)

Fixer said that I might be able to join if I polished my character sheet more. So, um, here I am! ^_^

I, uh, I'm still getting the hang of 4e, and there are a couple (many) things that I don't get yet.
Fortunately, it looks like Phineas is kinda l33t at this, so...could I ask for a little help?

(Why do I feel like I'm walking in front of a doctor, taking all my clothes off, and saying, "Okay, tell me all the flaws you see"? =)

@FNF: Don't worry about most of my questions. I seem to have found answers for most of them. ^-^


Female Troll

Although I can't help you out with your build-as it turned out, I had quite a few things wrong with mine-it would be cool to have you on the team!

If any of you are wondering why Gauntlet doesn't have any nonlethal rounds for her firearms, it's because if she's resorting to firearms, everything is pretty much shot anyways, so why even bother?


Anya "Wraith" Whiteangel wrote:

*shuffles in nervously like a self-conscious middle-schooler standing naked before a podium about to deliver a speech to the entire school about something that she doesn't actually know that much about*

Um...hi guys! =)

Fixer said that I might be able to join if I polished my character sheet more. So, um, here I am! ^_^

I, uh, I'm still getting the hang of 4e, and there are a couple (many) things that I don't get yet.
Fortunately, it looks like Phineas is kinda l33t at this, so...could I ask for a little help?

(Why do I feel like I'm walking in front of a doctor, taking all my clothes off, and saying, "Okay, tell me all the flaws you see"? =)

@FNF: Don't worry about most of my questions. I seem to have found answers for most of them. ^-^

Heh, well I guess the question is, what do you see your character being good at? What role does she fit in a usual group. (It doesn't have to fit a role in this group since we're kind of an eclectic group as it is.) But what do you see as her specialty.

It all depends on where you spend your resources. You've got a lot put into being tougher. But you have a really low Willpower, which means that she can get shot and keep going, but a stunbolt will knock her right out. It's alright, but you just have to keep that in mind. Also, some of those resources would probably better be spent on Agility. The ability to hit is your main "thing" so start with that thing.

Don't get me wrong, being tough is a good thing, it's just got a harsh diminishing returns on it that being able to shoot better doesn't.

General advice:
1. Always have either Dodge or Gymnastics.
2. Don't specialize at character creation. (2 BP for a specialization and 2 karma once the game starts. 2!) Unless it's Unarmed Combat: Martial Arts...because if you're going to be cheesy, you can afford to waste the points. ;)
3. Skills, in general, at character creation, are a rip-off. Again, I cannot stress enough not to specialize. So many BP lost! Skills should be bought at Rank 1 and 4, with one skill being at 6. From an efficiency standpoint. Again, this all depends on what you want to be able to do. For example, you could buy the Athletics skill group for 10, instead of a Climb of 4. That makes your Climb die pool a base 6 (instead of 9), which is an average of 2 successes (instead of 3). Probably enough, especially with climbing claws. But you save 6 BP *and* can now Swim, Run, and get Gymnastics (aka parkour)!
4. This is a personal thing, but in shadowrun, I always recommend that a character either be able to use a pistol, or be good at unarmed (or some melee-ish) combat unless they have a good reason not to (i.e. Phineas). At some point you're going to be going to something that you can't bring big guns to. Also, as an Orc, you can put pretty minimal resources into punching someone and be good enough to take out a security guard or random bouncer, or at least hold your own and not get embarrassed. A Machine pistol *kind* of counts and works off Automatics? So I'd go with at least some Unarmed, if only to explain the Krav Maga. ;)
5. You have no contacts. It's probably a good idea to have one or two, or a reason why she doesn't have any.
6. Biocompatibility is with either Cyberware or Bioware.
7. An alcohol addiction and a wheat allergy? That could be...dangerous. She better know her vodka, gin, whiskey...and hell, almost anything.

Random Gear Advice:
1. Smartlink/Image Link and a skinlink interface in contacts is the way to go. Then you can get some glasses or goggles for everything else you want at your convenience. Glasses for just noticing things and goggles for flash comp/thermo/low-light/etc., or just for different operations, is a pretty good way to go.
2. I remember the scarf/greatcoat getup from the last game we were in. I still think it's a cool look.
3. Commlinks are tricky. You can kit one out really well and do a bunch of non-hacker style stuff, like data research and such. Or you can ignore them and just get the basics. I tend to like to get a couple of cool programs. Agents, even basic ones, are useful for people without computer skills. As long as you don't expect it to hack people's comms. But this stuff can get complicated so ignoring it and getting the basic stuff is perfectly fine.
4. Fake Sins and Licenses are *really* mandatory if you're rolling around with runner's gear.
5. Wired Reflexes: This is also a personal thing. With close combat characters more passes are always better in my opinion. Being caught out in the open and outnumbered is kind of normal there. With a character that fights at range I tend to spend more on making sure I hit rather than extra hits. One extra pass is mandatory, beyond that, it's just a matter of whether it can be fit in but it's not a priority. Anything I'm shooting at should be dead after two shots. With that said, putting bullets down range is why drones exist. Everything else in the game pales in comparison to a drone operator in that regard. So if I'm making a "shooter" I tend to go heavy on infiltration/survival skills along with being a crack shot. Drones are great for a lot of things, but its hard to replace certain skills.
6. Perception is a really useful skill. Vision Enhancement is *awesome*. Even people with low Perception and low Intuition can get a reasonable roll for visual stuff.

Sovereign Court

"Ashley!" *whump* *bear hug*
*muffled because of the girly faced planted in his chest*
"MmphHiAshleymmph!"

Alright!

Okay, now, I'm going to try and absorb all of this with mouth shut and eyes open. How exactly I'm going to talk so much with mouth shut is a mystery, but there you have it!

I apologize to everyone not me or Phineas. This is gonna be kinda long and kinda wonky. Move along, nothing to see here. =)

Yeah, I was serious when I said infiltrator/soldier. I find that in an urban environment, there are some interesting options that can be opened up with a climb/athletic build. I kind envision the character being how we always wished Rogues in Pathfinder would be: Hold their own in a fight, with more mobility options built in.

I may ask you to clarify a few things. I'm NOT trying to be combative. Some things I've taken on faith. A few things I'll just need 'splained more betterer so I can see the numberz behind it.

A) You're right. A Will that low is dumb. I've moved a point from Logic (she was never that bright anyway =) and a point from Str.

B) Agility is already 5. With the diminished returns of the max attribute, that seems good for now?

1) See #3. Yeah, I see that here. Alright, Athletics 1 purchased. What should I do with the 6 saved points? Oop, nevermind! I'll save that toward some contacts!

2) Ach! Alas, mon ami, here we have our first lovers spat. Would you be able to expand on this? 2 pts for +2 dice in what will probably be the most common situations seems like a good bargain. Most First Aid rolls will be for wounds, most Perception checks will be Visual, etc. 2 pts vs the Karma cost of improving an active skill by one of (new rating x2) and the specialization doesn't even count against that cap seems like a good deal. Jus' sayin'. =)

3) See #1. Fully agree. Dropped Climb 4, got Ath 1.

4) Hee. Yeah, I figured an autopistol in a spring holster would keep me good in melee. There just...aren't any points left to do otherwise. I would've -liked- to have gotten a stun baton or taser, I even had them written down and purchased! But the points just aren't there. :/

5) I also got rid of my 1 point of Shadowing, so I hope someone else can do that. With 10 pts that should get two okay contacts.

6) Yeppers. Cyber. Hence the lack of round numbers in that area. =)

7) Did you know that 'hops' are a totally different plant? Who knew? I always assumed they were part of a wheat plant. And rye is something totally else! Whoa! Okay, I'll shift one point from something stupid like Combat tactics into Alcohol, so I'll be guaranteed at least one success. ^_^

1) Yeah, I got one pair of tricked out goggles. I think that might see me through.
2) Lolz! And I remember that people who didn't know me were discussing it! Ha-ha! Great RP is nice, but -fashion- gets you famous!
3) Ugh. Alas, yeah, I'm gonna have to concede this point and just stick with basics. I may even downgrade. ;p
4) Nods. I'll do something about that.
5) I've got decent Infiltration, so I'm thinking that I already hit that. Any more and I feel like this is a 'feel' thing and I'll have to learn it the hard way. =)
6) Whoops! Okay, yep, this was a mistake by me. I just flat out did not see that option. Okay, I plopped VisMag into those goggles. Good call. Good call.


Male Elf Shadowrunner
Spoiler:
Physical Damage: 0/11 | Stun Damage: 0/10 | Melee Defense: 10 | Ranged Defense: 6 | Initiative: 9 (2), Matrix Initiative: 9/10 (2/3) | Perception: 9

Having done a lot with Shadowrun as well, I have to agree with Phineas on *most* points. I'm going to give some feedback myself, if that's alright. Mostly, just in areas where I have a differing opinion. Perhaps the suggestion I find the post pressing is the ability to use some small weapons; even an SMG with a retractable stock might not make it through everywhere. If you're planning to use an SMG during a fight most of the time, I might suggest switching Longarms to Pistols as Nathaniel is more than capable of taking up a sniper-style role when required. I also might suggest dropping First Aid, as you only have a Logic of 1, so your total dice pool is 4. While defaulting guarantees you a success, often times you will need more than one for it to really be useful.

Now, for one thing I do disagree over; I wouldn't say you always need Dodge or Gymnastics. Now, for your character I think keeping the Athletics skill group is a good choice, but ultimately taking the defense actions in order to roll a Gymnastics Dodge is only going to prolong your inevitable death; it's a Complex action so you can't shoot back, and you're still risking damage. Athletics is a good skill group to have, but focusing on Gymnastics in particular seems an odd choice to me. Unless I'm misremembering something about dodging with Initiative Passes, it's not all that useful. You can block or parry any melee attacks, and while I suppose being able to make a run for cover while dodging is useful, you're better (usually) charging into them to pound their face in if that's the kind of build you're working with.

Also, I wouldn't say specializations are useless at character creation, but you can't take them with skill groups (which you have currently, according to your sheet). If you need everything, or almost everything, in a skill group I would definitely recommend taking specializations later, but if you want to really focus on certain things from character creation I wouldn't view it as a bad move, really. It is less cost efficient, but by the same token there's only so many things I want to spend my points on. Having a ton of skills I won't raise at 1 isn't useful to me, but having the ones I focus on a little higher at creation seems better to me. Mathematically Phineas is correct, but it isn't so terribly inefficient that you shouldn't do it.

That's just my two cents, though. Other than that, his logic is sound.


Here we go:

Agility: I wouldn't max it out at 6, yeah. But I'd suggest looking at muscle toner (or the muscle replacement in the place of one of those bioware pieces that make you tougher.) It'll make you more athletic and get you into those places you want to sneak into.

I'd actually *highly* recommend an Alphaware Suprathyroid Gland (you'd also need to buy Restricted Gear 1 as a Positive Quality). It seems very fitting for this character and is one of the better pieces of bioware in the game for characters like yours. You could put that in the place of Orthoskin. The reason being, Orthoskin increases your Damage Resistance by 3 dice (or about 1 damage saved). The Gland would increase your Body by 1 and essentially earn one of those lost DR dice back and increase other useful attributes.

Specialties: So, as far as efficiency is concerned, we measure BP in terms of how much karma you're getting in return for that BP. Skills all together are terrible returns as far as BP vs. Karma is concerned. Attributes on the other hand, are awesome returns on Karma. Especially if you're a metahuman and soft capping (setting your attribute to one less than your max). A 1-1 return on Karma vs. BP is something you want to avoid. In the case of skills, you live with it because you have no choice and some skills your character can't be who you want them to be without. Skill Groups are better deals, so stick to those when you can. In general, you're better off spending BP on gear than on more skills, because it'll be much tougher to get that gear once the game starts. (Runs, if you go by the book, don't pay that much.) But 2 Karma is cheap.

For example, for First Aid, you have a Medkit. It's going to give a +6 to medical rolls even if you don't have the first aid skill! 600ny is less than 1/8th of a BP. First Aid Rank 1 with a specialization is 6 BP! (And a total of +3 dice, or one success, on rolls to heal "wounds".)

And one last thing for now: I highly recommend skinlinks for all your weapons as well as your goggles. Otherwise your goggles and weapons will have to be linked wirelessly through your commlink. Which, unless you're going to invest in that commlink heavily, you don't want to do.

Oh, I guess I should add this: I like the idea of cyberpsychosis as a character concept, but the disadvantage is really bad mechanically. -2 to *all* Social Tests? And glitches causing crazy bad things *with* really low rolls? And rolls that people do pretty much constantly, regardless of whether they want to. I'd suggest something like poor self-control: thrill seeker to represent the death-wish like attitude? Also, you've spent a significant amount of resources to be really mediocre at social skills. 30BP on Charisma, 20BP on the social group, and a total die pool of 4. That's 1/8th of your total character points to be passable at something. That's a really poor investment.


One note on gear:
Check the availability on your goggles. One reason to split out the smartlink/image link is that the smartlink adds +4R availability. Everything else is unrestricted. And while goggles can fit a lot, you can still only go up to a total of 12 availability. Having contacts with the smartlink also means that if you're going to a place where you don't want people to check your licenses, you can just take those out. I'd just play around with the goggles/contacts/etc. in Chummer until you find a combination you like. But the main idea is one is for heavy duty, operation time, and the other is for everyday use. Some people do several sets of goggles/glasses. It all depends on if you're the gadget type of character or the one-size-fits-all type.


Female Timelady Nerd 3/Geek 2/Whovian 13/Writer 2

Fixer should be airdropping in in a bit.

Sovereign Court

Super boring stuff where I only talk about my build =p:

"I like the idea of cyberpsychosis as a character concept, but"
I agree, but first, some ranting:
NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGHHHHHH!!!1!
Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii---drek.
DAmmit dammit dammit.
*huff* *huff* *puff*
*whew*
Alright...you're...you're right about this one.
I -wanted- the character to be a little bit 'off' and I grabbed that without thinking about it. But you're right. I've been imagining what it would be like to run that and....yeah, -2 dice is just -too- much. I think they made it to try and trip up people who made characters who never want to talk but...but that's not me. I can't find the right Neg quality that I want so I'll prob just RP it.
Alright....that was the bad news. The good news is that I stayed up all night reading the Runner Compendium, and I got a good plan B that works better with my story!
We're gonna 86 the Psychosis and SNS (I never really knew what that did anyway. =p) We then add Flashback(5pt-any orc mage), Lost Loved One (Derrick--hell I might intentionally fail that roll =), and Big Regret. *whew* Okay, I...I feel much better about this now.

Okay, I see what you mean about the goggles. ... Alright, done. I didn't even see that contacts were a thing! =)

You keep hammering on the Suprathyroid. I acknowledge that it's good, but I don't if it's -that- good. ... Alright I'm sold! But only because it says I have to eat more. (What? I'm serious about that. =p) I don't need the First Impression anymore, so that makes room for Restricted gear.
Also, I "want" Orthoskin but I acknowledge I don't -need- Orthoskin. Making her a little more fragile is actually a good thing, in this case. That clear up enough nuyen for the Supra, to make the Bone lacing Alpha...and a level 1 set of Damage Compensators. (Heh, it was a close call between that and some muscle tone, but being able to ignore even a single box of damage outweighs tossing a few more dice on shooting rolls. IMHO. =)

*whew*

As far as everything else...you're probably right, but some of that math looks at the long-range math, and there are things that I think I may need to do right now.

(Gotta go to a Drs appt. I still have a little of the Ortho money left over. Might just get more patches.)


Hey all, Fixer airdropping in here, right on schedule. Sorry I haven't posted much, the last few days have been a tad hectic. That said, I definitely want to get this ball rolling, so expect Gameplay to be open pretty soon later today--hopefully by 5ish. I'll set the stage and we can start posting immediately, as there'll be a little time for RP and character introduction before combat inevitably breaks out. That should give Anya some more time to finish her building.

Notes on that specifically and in general, actually: first off, Phineas continues to give very solid advice on building, efficiency, specializing, all that stuff. I will say that everything should be taken with the proverbial grain of salt, of course; the way I'm hoping to run this you shouldn't really need to be super-optimized, and in fact if you are it'll probably lead to things getting ramped up some so there's still a challenge. Ultimately everyone should build the kind of character they want to play, with mechanics to back that up, even if it isn't necessarily the "best" build for it.

On a more general level, rebuilding is a thing I allow to continue through the end of the first "adventure" in pretty much everything I run, and if you do rebuild the character we basically retcon things so you were always that way. Obviously I'd prefer smaller rebuild things compared to big ones--changing from a pistol-focused gunslinger to an assault rifle specialist is a lot easier than moving from street samurai to nature shaman--but as long as the character is more or less the same, altering mechanics is fine by me within that time frame.

I'll let you all know when we're nearing the point at which I'd like no more retooling, but until then just let me know what you're changing and it should be all good.


Anya "Wraith" Whiteangel wrote:
** spoiler omitted **...

So, most of the changes advised are just intended to make your character better at the things that you think your character is good at. It's actually much less about long term efficiency. (It'd be a very different character if that were the goal.)

But, as Fixer said, my advice isn't something that you should feel you *have* to follow. Efficiency is one thing. The main goal is to make your character able to do the things you want it to do well. So a lot of my advice mentions efficiency, but a lot of it is designed to get your sheet to reflect what you're picturing in your head. (Which, of course, I can't see, so I'm just trying to work it out.) :P

A couple of notes:
1. Orthoskin is really bad. I won't go into why since you've dropped it, but Damage Resistance dice on someone sporting 20+ is just a waste.
2. You really should get muscle toner or muscle replacement (probably the second since you have biocompatibility with cyberware and having a lower Essence is a feature for the character, not a bug.) It just makes you better at what you're trying to do in every way you want the character to be effective.
3. I think you may have read Damage Compensators incorrectly? They don't subtract damage. The character still takes the damage, you just don't suffer the consequences of the damage. (The lower die pool.) I'm not saying DCs aren't worth it, but...there are better things out there. Also, they literally *aren't* worth having extra dice on tests. For every three boxes of damage you take a -1 on dice rolls. So ignoring one box means you need 4 damage to take the first negative, but still get the second negative die at 7 boxes of damage. If you have that extra die (from muscle toner) you have it all the time, and just lose that extra die when you take a 3rd (instead of a 4th) box of damage.
4. From your current sheet I see that you're going with an Intuition of 1 and a Logic of 1? I understand the Logic drop, but keep in mind that Intuition is your Initiative and Perception boost. As well as your gut feelings. I mean, it's certainly fine to play a character that's that oblivious...but it may not end up being fun in the long run (mechanically or story-wise). But, to each their own.
5. You're still spending 50 BP on being mediocre at social skills. That's fine (and better now that you don't have Cyberpychosis), but keep in mind that's a large investment for very little return. This is also something that you can fix later with some Empathy software and become half-way decent. So, if that's what you'd like the character to do, it's worth it. But if you don't plan on continuing to invest in social skills, I'd suggest dropping the group to 1. The difference is minimal in effectiveness but large in cost.
6. Platelet Factory and Symbiotes: Platelet Factory is fine, but you're still investing a *ton* into not taking damage when you're already good at that without spending almost anything. It's not bad, but it's also not good. Symbiotes are bad. Rating 1 will add a single die to your Healing roll, making a die roll to heal Physical damage 23 instead of the current 22 (22!). That's 1/3rd of a success on average. They also cost you more money on a regular basis. (20% more on your lifestyle. Over the 10% increase that the suprathyroid gland is already adding. At least that piece of bioware is worth the cost increase!)


Female Troll

Might not be able to post in Gameplay until tomorrow.

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