"Necessary Evil" - supervillains save the world!

Game Master ZenFox42


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Dark Archive

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:

Ok, so why did I do all these?

-The Investigation skill also includes searching, forensics, shadowing, etc.
"Searching" to my mind involves *knowing where to look* - under the bottom of drawers, finding secret latches, cutting open the pillowcases, etc. "Noticing" to my mind is *being able to see/hear things that are not hidden, and have them make an impact on your mind*. I don't like the fact that Notice (which is used often, so most PC's have it fairly high) can be used to search a room. I'm pretty adamant about this point.

Longer than I intended rant about TONS'O'SKILLZ! vs. SW:

D&D 3E had Search, Spot, Listen, and, I kid you not, Read Lips. The evolution from 3E to Pathfinder collapsed all of those into Perception.

There are myriad reasons for this:
1)Speed of play. Fewer dice means the game goes faster. When most players just roll Spot & Search together automatically (as I can remember doing) there becomes little point.
2) Ease of play. Many, many, many times someone at the tale said "I am doing X, is this a Spot or Search?" Waiting for such clarification at table was annoying, in a PFS it can be downright excruciating.
3) Perhaps the most important, we need to consider Skill Points, or, the more general title of LeveL Progression. In D&D it's hard for a class that gets 2 SP to decide how to spend them, since one can increase their Search and Listen, and still be short one in the basic area of "being aware of things". Whereas in PFS, you can just drop on into Perception and still increase your Knowledge or something. In SW you might get 2 skill improvements and THAT'S IT. The game, as designed, just DOES NOT have the leeway to say "Yeah, but I really don't think being good at shooting rifles should translate to pistols or SMGs. Shooting is now 5 different skills. So is Fighting. Piloting is now craft-specific." At 2 SP per increase, the SW mechanic is simply not designed for such parsing. If you want parsing, we can play Shadowrun. (Or Mutants and Masterminds, mess that it is.)
If you wanted to borrow from Interface Zero, you could institute a Specialization for Notice.

Same thing Deceiving. I'm sorry that Gambling isn't used more. But for the same reason that Pathfinder got rid of Innuendo, SW decided to condense the talkings into "Persuation". Why? Because if someone wants to be good at speaking, and they increase their skills, maybe they'd like to also increase one other thing too?

Lastly, I can't imagine the people that made Savage Worlds into one of the most widly adaptable games running, sitting down and NOT thinking about the "Perception vs. Deception" question. They just decided that since they were making skills point very, very limited, it was okay to make the skills themselves very, very broad.

Anyway, IMHO. YMMV. =)

Tl;Dr: Skills points few, skills broad.


Parry 6/8 Ratn 4/6 Tough 8(2)heavy Bennies 5/5 Wounds/Fatigue 0/0
GM_ZenFox42 wrote:

Ok, so why did I do all these?

-The Investigation skill also includes searching.
I don't like the fact that Notice (which is used often, so most PC's have it fairly high) can be used to search a room. I'm pretty adamant about this point.

I think you are incorrect in this both from the solution in search of a problem and the adding more skills without adding skill points directions but I can deal.

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:
-Gambling ... Will have to think about that some more...

Please also consider the effect of moving this skill from Spirit to Smarts. Smarts already governs a great number of skills.

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:
Lockpicking is Smarts-based.

Please add this and all other house rules to the Campaign Info page so we do not forget them.

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:
-A grappler can opt to make an opposed roll to “subdue” the target (temporary Incapacitation), but succeeds only on a Raise.

It may just be me but I do not understand this. So if a d4 strength halfling gets a lucky roll they can pin forever a monk with d12+2 Str and Agility? Moreover this pinning prevents mental powers from working? What about going Insubstantial or Teleporting or Growth/Shrinking? Damage Shield? Unless I am badly misunderstanding this it seems really unnecessary. Mind you if we keep this change Jack will be taking some grapple friendly edges as this seems an excellent way to one-shot psionically strong but physically weak enemy wild cards. Step one Jack grapples and "pins" locking both jack and target into non-action. Step two, Enkїdu Improved Frenzy with the drop.

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:
-The Frenzy Edge imposes a -1 penalty instead of -2.

I've done statistical modeling of combat by computer that shows with a -2 to each Attack, Frenzy actually *lowers* your chances of surviving a 1-on-1 combat. Making it a -1 penalty *increases* your chances of survival, which is what an Edge should do. I'm pretty adamant about this one.

I think your modeling may have led you astray here. Using Frenzy with no other support is a desperation move, it is and should be non-optimal. You are hoping for dice-luck to save your bacon.

However this is NOT how Frenzy tends to be used. Frenzy is best used to magnify an existing advantage. You use it when Wild attacking with a Trademark weapon (-2Frenzy+2Wild+1Trademark). Or vs. a Tricked/Tested opponent. Or when you have a gang up bonus or the Drop.

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:
-The maximum number of Wounds a single attack can inflict is four. The attacker gets a Benny for every Raise past the fourth.

Ok like I said this favors Jack.

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:
-Wild Cards roll once per day for Natural Healing.

This one is a MAJOR change to the setting. NE is a post apocalypse story as well as a supers story. Resource scarcity is a fact of life in Star City. Manipulating this scarcity is a major GM tool. If we need to heal up then we need to proactively find or build the needed tools and supplies. That looks like an adventure hook to me. Scarcity can also be used to highlight choices. Do the cell keep the medical supplies they just 'liberated' or do pass them to a normal human resistance group? Is stopping this plan we just heard about worth risking death by fighting while wounded or do we let it succeed and heal up. These kind of questions are major tropes in war/apoc stories. By handing the players a easy resource free way to heal you take these questions off the table.

That is fine if you want to run a happier more 4 coloured/SilverAge game but that should be a conscious choice.

Needing to take time to heal up aldo increases the players connection to the setting. It forces the group to do things like have a med bay in the lair. And/or have friends with access to medical treatment. If friends and lairs are important then players will pay attention to them, investing more in the setting and making for a better game. Not having to depend on others separates the players from the setting.

.......

Thank you for hearing me out on this. Personally I feel that most of these changes are solutions in search of a problem but it is not enough to drive me from the game.

I would request that you create a House Rules document under the Campaign Info tab so that we do not have to dig through back posts to find your changes.


Parry 6/8 Ratn 4/6 Tough 8(2)heavy Bennies 5/5 Wounds/Fatigue 0/0

Also the SW forums are back!


Init: ; Parry: 6, RATN: 7, Toughness: 14(8); Active: Chemical sense

With notice vs. investigate, it's not clear where the changeover occurs. All of your investigate choices were pretty deeply hidden things. I'd like to hear some edge cases and the reasons behind them so I know where notice ends and investigation begins. I can easily accept it if it's only used for "this has been cunningly hidden". If it's used whenever somebody had five items on their desk, it's a really tough pull. I'd also suggest being able to use Notice with a penalty instead of having to go all the way to untrained.

I'd also argue that if you are tossing the room - i.e. turning over furniture and breaking things, then investigation is not necessarily the right skill.

Other than this I'm good, so long as you post them on the game page and are understanding if we forget them.


Ok, I've thought long and hard about your complaints suggestions...

-How about Searching (including finding clues) is at Notice-2? Or worse, depending on the situation.

-Altho two long-term expert SW GM's both favor using Gambling as "Deception" instead of Persuasion, a system developer has said that Persuasion covers both Diplomacy and Bluffing. So I'm willing to leave Gambling alone.

-Does anyone currently even have Lockpicking? We're in an electronic setting, so Lockpicking is Smarts-based. If you have a high Lockpicking based off of a high DEX, I'd be willing to let you keep your current skill level.

-Regarding grappling subdual, I shouldn’t have used the term “temporary Incapacitation” (it was in my head from discussing Stun). The target is *physically* unable to move (technically, he can’t make any Agility or Strength based rolls, unless permitted by the attacker), but *can* take mental or superpower actions. If the attacker has some kind of handcuffs, plastic straps, etc. ready to use (or a friend ready to tie the enemy with ropes, clothing etc.), then after applying them the attacker is free to act.

-Running gives you (roll+2) in extra inches of movement, up to your max Running die value (3 to 6 on a normal running die of d6).
No one's complained about this, I'm keeping it.

-Getting first initiative and Holding is a great tactical advantage, that having to make opposed Agility rolls to resolve possibly negates (and slows down melee). Whoever’s Holding goes first.
No one's complained about this (after my clarification), I'm keeping it.

-Regarding Frenzy - altho a long-term expert SW GM agrees with me about boosting Frenzy's usefulness, I'm still new enough to SW to not have come up with the combat maneuver combinations suggested by Jack. I'll drop this.

-The four-Wound cap : no one's complained about this, I'm keeping it.

-The Natural Healing issue - Jack makes some good arguments for a longer recovery period opening up some interesting issues in terms of gameplay, so I'm willing to drop this.

Any final comments?

Dark Archive

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:

-How about Searching (including finding clues) is at Notice-2? Or worse, depending on the situation.

I've seen what I thought was the perfect happy medium used before (it was used extensively by TheGreenTeaGamer who has, unfortunately, retired the alias).

He would have one spoiler for a Notice success, and then another, different one for a Notice Raise. Is this kind of what you are going for? Hence, the people that aren't that good at Notice might find the normal move-the-plot-forward clues, but only the people who really take it seriously, or are just lucky that day, will find the 10 bottlecaps hidden under the skeleton. (Sorry, it was a Fallout SW mod. =)


No, Noticing would still be different than Searching. Basically, the penalty kicks in when you declare you are "searching the room" or "looking for clues" or whatever. Noticing would still be used for all the usual, basic...well, Noticing...stuff (did you happen to hear/see this thing that happened near you?). I've seen the two-spoiler method used before too, and plan on using it. But just walking into the room wouldn't even need a Notice roll for me to describe what you see right in front of you.


Pace: 12/8; Parry: 8/10; Toughness: 10(4); Ranged TN: 5/7; Wounds: 2; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 3/3; Load Limit: 21/40;
Skills:
Fighting d10, Lockpicking d4, Notice d6, Repair d4, Shooting d8, Stealth d10, Streetwise d6

I have a little lockpicking.


Enkidu - I've been waiting for the SW forums to come back on-line, in order to answer a question I've had about your PC for some time :

Q : Does Natural Race Weapon (Such as Saurian d4 or Rakashans d6) stack with the Martial arts edge.

A (from Clint) : Natural weapons are weapons, so if used, the character would not be making an "unarmed" attack. In short, no, they do not stack.

So, if you want to swap out Martial Artist for something else, feel free.


Wolf - but it's lower than either your Dex or Smarts, so it doesn't matter yet (but it will when you try to raise it).


GM_ZenFox42 wrote:

Ok, I've thought long and hard about your complaints suggestions...

-How about Searching (including finding clues) is at Notice-2? Or worse, depending on the situation.

It makes sense that well-hidden stuff is at a penalty. I expect that and it's the way things are usually handled. Though I will bring up a metagame point. The bare minimum clues to move the plot along shouldn't be at the whim of the dice. Beyond that, it's all at risk.


Utah Raptor: Parry 11, Ranged TN 6, Toughness 18(6)| Wounds: 0; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 3/2

Cool on the Martial Arts ruling; I'll swap it out. As for his size and the door, Chameleon actually allows you to imitate any form within two size levels. Bear is +2, humans are 0. He might be considered a +1 size in his Wildman form, but it is semantics at that point as it makes no mechanical difference.

Sorry for skipping over Tom's search time, I totally missed that there was a search time component after the initial recognition roll.


Enkidu, I was thinking more about your *width*. At 6'6" *long*, the height of an average adult human, but at 600-700 *pounds*, you're pretty fat! And when you stand up, that adds the length of your hind legs to your height, which can be over 8 feet! I just can't see you fitting thru an average doorway with those dimensions. Also, if you're truly a bear in all respects, I can't see you walking on your hind legs indefinitely.

I still maintain that while Chameleon allows you to *appear* smaller than you really are, that is more of an illusion that masks your true size.

If you're thinking of doing this on a regular basis (staying as a bear but appearing human), you're going to be a bull in a china shop whenever you go indoors (but how do you get thru the doors?)! Bumping into tables that you don't appear to be touching, etc.


Utah Raptor: Parry 11, Ranged TN 6, Toughness 18(6)| Wounds: 0; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 3/2

Illusion is listed as one of the possible trappings of the power, but so is a maliable form, which would entail genuine shapeshifting. Enkidu uses the latter version, and does not use illusion. I was envisioning Enkidu using two overlapping shapeshifting powers to have more flexibility than just a typical shapeshifter. He can assume a human shape while having the power of an animalistic form, kind of like the way Vixen from the JLA takes on the power of an animal but stays human looking.

As a genuine Shapeshifter, he isn't an illusory man shape, but rearranges his bear shape into the shape of a man, condensing his form down into a smaller volume. The ability allows him to imitate a specific person if he chooses, so if he decided to imitate Donald Trump, he would take on the shape of Donald Trump, not an 800 lb quadraped Donald Trump (insert joke here). He fits through a door because Donald Trump fits through a door. He walks upright because Donald Trump walks upright. It may be that his mass doesn't change (like Altered Form), so if he stepped on a scale, he might still weigh 800 lbs, but it would a matter of density, again like Altered Form.

This was the reason I took Chameleon, and as described should enable him to take on any shape within 2 sizes of his current form. If you decide you want it to work differently, I will probably sub it out, as he has 5 points invested in it and this concept that could be much more useful elsewhere if it isnt going ro work.


Ok, I just needed to hear your character concept - referencing Vixen did that for me. You're fine.


Female Angel Pace 6/12 Parry 7 Tough 8 Cha 4 || RATN 4 Bennies 2/3 Wounds 0
Skills:
Skills: Fighting d12, Healing d6, Intimidation d8. Know (theology) d6, Notice d6 || Longsword d12+1 (d10+d8+2 [AP2])

I am on vacation this week until next Monday, Please bot me as necessary. If I'm running the game, I will do what I can to check in, but don't expect much activity from me this week. Thank you.


Parry 6/8 Ratn 4/6 Tough 8(2)heavy Bennies 5/5 Wounds/Fatigue 0/0
GM_ZenFox42 in the game thread wrote:


Jack, have you forgotten that Dr. Destruction said he would land in the compound once you all made it there with MindJack?

Nope, haven't forgotten

1. Jack doesn't exactly trust Dr. D. Jack expects D will show as it is in D's interest. But Jack believes in hedging his bets.

2. Events can occur. Dr. D is not here, the cars are. If something goes wrong and the Doctor can't make this housecall we need a plan B.

3. Destruction's bus can only hold so many folks.

4. 3 vehicles zipping away from the prison camp will be harder to stop than one.

5. Rest of the team had the breakout covered. So hey free car!


Male Human Parry 4. RATN 4. Toughness 13(7). Bennies 3. Charisma +0.

I am SO sorry everyone! I didn't intend to drop out of the game and just stop being around. Life went a bit sideways and then just tonight I realized I hadn't been on the site in FOREVER. Sorry. =(

I am going to bow out I think as I've missed a lot and not sure how much I can keep up with things. Sorry again. I hope the game continues on and is fun for all for a long time!


Sorry to see you go, Shackle - if your life ever gets straight again, feel free to join back in. I'm sure we can work out a reason for your going away and coming back again!


Parry 6/8 Ratn 4/6 Tough 8(2)heavy Bennies 5/5 Wounds/Fatigue 0/0

Aw rats!

Sorry to see you go Shackle. I hope the sideways bit works itself out.
Good luck.
~PWO


Parry 6, Toughness 11/6, Ranged Attack TN 4, Pace 6, Charisma 0 Wounds: 0; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 2/3;
Skills:
Climbing d6, Driving d4, Fighting d8, Lockpicking d6, Notice d4, Piloting d4, Shooting d8+1, Stealth d8

Moved into a new apartment, the internet down. Hopefully up tomorrow.


Init: ; Parry: 6, RATN: 7, Toughness: 14(8); Active: Chemical sense

As we're out of combat, can I make the changes I mentioned here?


I was going to wait until the end-of-scene, not end-of-combat, to allow everyone to do several things. But if you want to update your character sheet now, sure, go ahead.


ALL - so, now's the time to tweak your PC a little bit, if you found them wanting during the fight. Please remember, just minor tweaks that stay true to your character concept.
Enkidu, don't forget to swap out Martial Artist for something else.

Also, everyone gets 2 more PP to put into superpowers. All initial restrictions apply, *except* that the max PP you can put into any one power is now 7. You can also "bank" these PP to spend on a more expensive power/upgrade later, just note the running total on your character sheet.

And, rather than award Experience Points, I'm going to award an Advancement after *every* OR *every other* "scenario". There are 30 scenarios available in NE, and that way you'll be sure to be Legendary by the time we end.
So, everyone pick an Advancement.

Please post your updates here, as well as in your character sheet.


Init: ; Parry: 6, RATN: 7, Toughness: 14(8); Active: Chemical sense

Toxie got a little more vigorous and his polymer snare is harder to escape.


ALL -

Thing #1 - please list exactly which Superpower(s) you're putting your points into (and what they affect about the superpower, if appropriate), and describe your Advancement in game mechanics terms (like, "Bumping Agility from d6 to d8", or "Taking Two-Fisted Edge"). Thanks!

Thing #2 - about your warehouse lair/HQ :

You have 8*5=40 points to spend. The lair itself is Huge, which takes 7 points. It has a large number of empty rooms, which can be put to dedicated tasks according to the SPC2 HQ rules. That leaves 33 points to be put into building the HQ. Y'all can pick the Facility Modifier amongst yourselves.

As I mentioned early on, I'm thinking that in addition to HQ points, it should cost you *money* to fill up each room - maybe $4000/point?

Keep in mind, generators are monitored closely by the V'sroi, so getting one (if you want one) could be an adventure all to itself.

Finally, the Medical Center says it adds to "ALL Healing rolls", so I'm going to say that it adds to the superpower Healing roll as well.

What are your ideas about distributing the HQ points?


Parry: 4 | Toughness: 8 | RATN 4 | Bennies: 1 | Charisma: 0

I don't really think I should invest too much time into the HQ, as Nature will likely not care at all about it. She will not even claim a room as her own.

As far as changes/extra pp goes, I think to do what I wanted/did before with Earthquake, I need to change how my power is built. I am going to drop the Trigger modifier and take Earthshake instead with the two pp we just gained, if you are alright with that. It will damage single buildins within a large burst template, be faster to activate, and will work 6/6 times, as opposed to Trigger, which only triggers an earthquake if done on a fault line on a d6 roll of 6.

For my advancement, I am going to increase my Vigor die to 1d12, which will increase my Toughness by 1.


Init: ; Parry: 6, RATN: 7, Toughness: 14(8); Active: Chemical sense
Doctor Toxic wrote:
Toxie got a little more vigorous and his polymer snare is harder to escape.

Bumping Vigor from d6 to d8; adding stronger to ensnare


Nature - no problem.

Doc Tox - thanks!


Pace: 12/8; Parry: 8/10; Toughness: 10(4); Ranged TN: 5/7; Wounds: 2; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 3/3; Load Limit: 21/40;
Skills:
Fighting d10, Lockpicking d4, Notice d6, Repair d4, Shooting d8, Stealth d10, Streetwise d6

Taking improving two lesser skills - Fighting and Stealth.
Banking my power points until I get a few more.


Parry 6/8 Ratn 4/6 Tough 8(2)heavy Bennies 5/5 Wounds/Fatigue 0/0

Zen Advance and other bookkeeping:
Tweak in light of House rules
Dropping Notice to a d4 and taking Investigation at d4.

First Novice Advance.
Increasing Agility to a D10.
Power Points spent on Super Edge: Take the hit, +2 on soak rolls.

ALL
In light of the day I suggest we call ourselves "Eclipse"

It is threatening, powerful, yet vague enough not to give anything away.


Init: ; Parry: 6, RATN: 7, Toughness: 14(8); Active: Chemical sense

Eclipse works for me.


Parry 6, Toughness 11/6, Ranged Attack TN 4, Pace 6, Charisma 0 Wounds: 0; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 2/3;
Skills:
Climbing d6, Driving d4, Fighting d8, Lockpicking d6, Notice d4, Piloting d4, Shooting d8+1, Stealth d8

Banking my power points. Wanna get my copy powers stronger.
For the Advance, I'm still not entirely sure what I want to do.

I like Eclipse as a name, also its currently topical.


Parry: 4 | Toughness: 8 | RATN 4 | Bennies: 1 | Charisma: 0

"Even celestial bodies have a natural rhythm."


Pace: 12/8; Parry: 8/10; Toughness: 10(4); Ranged TN: 5/7; Wounds: 2; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 3/3; Load Limit: 21/40;
Skills:
Fighting d10, Lockpicking d4, Notice d6, Repair d4, Shooting d8, Stealth d10, Streetwise d6

Eclipse is good


Jack - please note, I did post that I changed my mind on moving searching to Investigation, I decided instead to impose hefty penalties to your Notice roll when searching. So if you want to undo your Notice/Investigation skill split, feel free.

ALL - my current set of house rules is posted under Campaign Info.

Five people have posted their "level ups", what about the rest of you?

Also, what about building the HQ?


Utah Raptor: Parry 11, Ranged TN 6, Toughness 18(6)| Wounds: 0; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 3/2

Switching out Martial Artist with an increase to Agility from d6 to d8. Using my Advance to take Two Fisted. (d8 Agility is a prereq.)

Using his power points to put 1 in Shapeshifting, allowing him to shift into Size 3 creatures (of which I can't find many that are interesting, but there are perhaps 2 that could be useful; Ogre and Megaraptor). The other point he will use to buy off the Single Limb limitation of his attack power, in order to be able to grow giant claws on each hand/paw and thus make use to Two-Fisted.


Female Angel Pace 6/12 Parry 7 Tough 8 Cha 4 || RATN 4 Bennies 2/3 Wounds 0
Skills:
Skills: Fighting d12, Healing d6, Intimidation d8. Know (theology) d6, Notice d6 || Longsword d12+1 (d10+d8+2 [AP2])

I'm back! Had a great vacation with a fantastic viewing of the eclipse and time spent with my best friend, whom I had not seen in two years!

Eclipse it is!

Dark Angel boosts her Strength to a d10. She is banking her 2 PP.

Regarding the HQ, Angel will maintain a room there, as she still requires rest (though half that of a normal human), for now. Definitely, need a medical bay and a training area. Beyond that, Dark Angel's needs are few. She doesn't eat or drink (though she does enjoy the taste and sensation of certain foods, so maybe a kitchen wouldn't be a bad idea).


Init: ; Parry: 6, RATN: 7, Toughness: 14(8); Active: Chemical sense

A chemistry lab would be nice, but I understand if it's a bit niche. Having it be hidden and well-secured are a must. Unexpected V'sori houseguests are a pain in the ass.

Dark Archive

Fortunately we already hashed out the framework of what we'd like in an HQ here.

GM: Are you saying that we start with nothing but the building and we need to pay for stuff and install it as we go, like broke newlyweds?

All: Since we'll want big stuff like Well Hidden and Secure Access the like, we actually are gonna be short of points, so we'll have to make some hard choices. For starts, we'll have to limit things to stuff that an actual game effect.

Also, I'm taking the Edge Two Fisted and Super Attribute to boost my strength.


Pace: 12/8; Parry: 8/10; Toughness: 10(4); Ranged TN: 5/7; Wounds: 2; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 3/3; Load Limit: 21/40;
Skills:
Fighting d10, Lockpicking d4, Notice d6, Repair d4, Shooting d8, Stealth d10, Streetwise d6

We can also steal the funds we need to get the stuff installed.

-Posted with Wayfinder


Parry: 4 | Toughness: 8 | RATN 4 | Bennies: 1 | Charisma: 0

We can start by checking the nearby buildings.


Thomas - if by "we" you mean "you", then yes, the framework for the HQ has been "hashed out". ;) I'm repeating what you posted here :

========================================================================

We've got the points, so let's go with Advanced condition. But not State of the Art. No need to be greedy. +5 pts

Command Center. We need it because COMMAND CENTER! +1 pt.
Garage, +2 pts. A second garage? +2 pts.
A Generator of our very own. +1 pt. 'Nuff said.
Kitchen, +1 pt. I also think we should have a primitive replicator that just makes us food because that is a FANTASTIC thing to have. Otherwise do you know how much time we're gonna spend grocery shopping? +1 pt.
Library/computer room because bonuses to things are awesome. +1pt
Medical Center is dumb. No need.
Personal Quarters, +2 pts gets us 8 lavishly advanced rooms.
Security Cells. At least one. +1 pt, because we're probably gonna take someone alive at some point.
Secure Access +1 pt so the GM can't randomly have small children showing up in our underwear drawers.
Oh, and Well-Hidden, +3 pts, so that even if some large PC that may or may not smell like chicken and wears a motorcycle helmet walks directly from an abandoned gang war into the building, they still won't be able to automatically find us. I'm not saying that this may or may not have definitely killed another game with a strangely similar title as this one, but I am saying that this would be a good idea to definitely consider. And then get. =)

That's still only a measly 26 pts. There are other options we can mull, like a specialized Library that gives us a bonus on one specific Knowledge skill, or more Security cells, so I think that this is a good basis to keep in mind...

=======================================================================

Keep in mind, generators are monitored closely by the V'sori, so you can't just say you get one.

Also, +2 to Quarters only gives you two rooms, 4 people to a room. If everyone wants their own room, that'd be 8 points.

Thomas wrote:
Are you saying that we start with nothing but the building and we need to pay for stuff and install it as we go, like broke newlyweds?

Yep. Wolf has the right idea...

Thomas wrote:
Since we'll want big stuff like Well Hidden and Secure Access the like, we actually are gonna be short of points, so we'll have to make some hard choices.

??? Your list as shown includes 21 points. Even with the extra 6 points for individual rooms, that's only 27 points, and you have 33 points to play with.

Actually, with everyone getting their own room, and considering the size of the warehouse, I think it should be Huge, so now you still have 31 points to play with. That leaves you with 4 points and 6 rooms unspent.

Altho I believe some other players wanted a Medical Center, so I would swap out the second garage for it.

Also, Endiku suggested a "teleporter" option (+4, not really a teleporter, but maybe an underground tunnel or something), and Dr. Toxic wants his own lab (+2).

Ok, so *now* y'all have some choices to make...

ALL - what do you think of Thomas' proposal (Jack, I know you've weighed in on this already, shortly after Thomas' original post)?


Parry 6/8 Ratn 4/6 Tough 8(2)heavy Bennies 5/5 Wounds/Fatigue 0/0

Zen Where are you getting the +2 quarters =2 rooms? At Advanced facility level we should be looking at 8 separate bedrooms. I see these as converted offices on the second floor.

Oh I see! Quarters for 8 does cost 2 'room points' but like 'level' in Pathfinder I think the word 'room" is pulling more than one meaning. After all a specialist library takes 2 'rooms' to the general library's one but the collection in a specialist library would be smaller than the general collection. The specialist collection would be harder to gather which explains why a specialist library takes more 'lair resources' (IMHO a better term than 'room') than the general.

Home Sweet Home

Well with the daily regen we do not need the med center.
So that can go. Jack will just track down a decent crash bag to avoid the "no tools" modifier.

Actually any discussion of a Lair is entirely premature.
Sure we have a Huge building and 33 Lair points to trick it out. But we can't spend those points. We can't spend them because we need $132,ooo.oo (33 points x 4k per point). Jack, to inject a personal note, is currently broke.

And here we see why Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne are rich. It's a very nice superpower to have.

Zen If you are open to the suggestion I recommend you rescind the cash per lair point rule and assume Dr. D has prepared the place for us.

This gives you easy veto power over any aspect you don't like (generator, teleporter) and it keeps the focus of the game on us dealing with the occupation rather than the game becoming "This Old House" the RPG.

There is even a way around having to change any of your previous descriptions. Please take a look at the Camouflaged lair extra. The place looks like a dump because unless you know about the secret code to the Arrow cave it is a dump.


Jack - ok, upon re-reading the wording of Personal Quarters, I agree with you.

That leaves you with 10 points and 6 rooms unspent. So now you can have the "teleporter" and Doc Tox can have a lab, and you still have 4 points to spare!

Actually, I thought it would be a pretty good plot hook to have to have you get the cash to outfit the HQ (as well as at least one vehicle, for those who don't fly). Y'all are *villains*, after all - I'm sure you can think of *some* way to get some extra cash. ;) I would then gloss over the purchasing, delivering, installation, etc. of the equipment/furniture/van.

Dark Archive

GM_ZenFox42 wrote:
Thomas - if by "we" you mean "you", then yes, the framework for the HQ has been "hashed out". ;)

I usually do. =3

I would council that we keep a medical facility. I'll be applying it to my healing rolls. And even a healing roll a day doesn't mean that everyone is hale and hardy after a good night's sleep if the healing roll goes poorly. But with another half success onto my attempts, we can probably be up in hours instead of days.

I'd say that real-world down time is enough of a priority to keep the bonus to healing rolls. While it'd be -nice- to have labs and libraries, those things will be used rarely, while ALL of us will make healing rolls all the time.

Meh, so long as cash is available, maybe we can see how it goes. It will also give us a sense of progression, as we go from sleeping on the floor to sleeping in nice rooms.

(Also, this puts an impetus on the GM to make $132,000 -available- to us to get our hands on. That will be fun. =)

Mind you, can we at least say that it is already "Camouflaged" and "Secure"? It seems like it would be hard to say "Ya, this huge building that use to be here? You totally don't see it now." =p


Parry 6/8 Ratn 4/6 Tough 8(2)heavy Bennies 5/5 Wounds/Fatigue 0/0

Re cash: Sweet! I fully agree. Looks like we are hitting the sweetspot between Daern's instant fortress and The Money Pit. Just to be clearZen, you are taking the Contractor turning us in for the reward plot off the table correct? I can tell my RPG paranoia to stand down on this one?

Re healing. Just looked at the house rules page. No mention of the healing bit so the Med bay is mandatory again.

Re Well Hidden, Camouflaged and Secure: Well the building is currently Camouflaged. It looks like an abandoned dump. So long as we maintain the policy of benign neglect for the outer crust we should be ok for a while. The Well Hidden extra might be off the table. We can't really hide the building. So Camouflaged and Secure look to be the best bet.

One thing I do recommend is staff. A couple or three Minions would be real handy with the 'off screen' tasks. Also we would have folks to cook, clean the place, and monitor the cameras while we sleep.


Parry 6, Toughness 11/6, Ranged Attack TN 4, Pace 6, Charisma 0 Wounds: 0; Fatigue: 0; Bennies: 2/3;
Skills:
Climbing d6, Driving d4, Fighting d8, Lockpicking d6, Notice d4, Piloting d4, Shooting d8+1, Stealth d8

As Alpha has no natural healing abilities, he'd rather not be beholden to those he would have to copy to restore himself.

I need to do some more reading on the base stuff.


I could see the difference between Camouflaged and Well-Hidden as : Camouflaged makes the *inside* look "normal" (according to the description), while Well-Hidden makes it hard to *locate* (tight-beam radio comms to the PC's, long underground tunnel (Teleport) to come and go far away from the building, etc).

In that case, Well-Hidden is more important than Camouflaged, and I'd be willing to give you that you can make it Well-Hidden.

Do you even want Camouflaged, as that seems to only hide your stuff from *someone who's already inside the building*? Granted, that might help hide yourselves from the wandering hobo, but anyone who gets in will have already set off alarms due to the Secure Access.

Thomas - I'm more than willing to make over $100,000 available to you, but you should think *BIG*.

And yes, Jack, the contractors won't turn you in. :)


I'm thinking of giving everyone a free Edge, Connections. Each PC would have to come up with a specific person (not by name), and describe their job, which would specify what they can do for you.

But, using a Connection requires a Persuasion roll, and many PC's may not have Persuasion. And rolling a d4-2 really *sucks*. But then again, that's what Bennies are for. :)

Thoughts, ideas?

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