A couple of things I've discovered while reading about Path of War.
1: Silver Crane fails the Bag of Cats test. "Whenever I hit something with my spear, I can heal an ally for X. I can use this unlimited times per day. Just don't forget the cart full of chickens."
2: I'm almost assuredly going Warlord for my level 4 dip: It's just completely broken -and- adds power to the team in such a way that I feel is appropriate for Maks. Golden Lion seems fun. I still think PoW is completely broken... especially what the first level of Warlord will do for Maks.
1. Bag of cats test, as I always understood it, isn't about game features—it's a test of a player's IRL alignment.
My bigger problem with silver crane is that it gives no explanation for what sort of power, force, entity or training is providing all that healing. Also because if you look closely at some of the stances (especially Silver Crane), you're effectively getting more bonus feats than a fighter.
2. Warlord is the most broken class in PoW, except for all the others. Really, the only issue I see with that is Feat Starvation.
3. If you really, really want to see the rulebook cry, consider taking the Bladecaster prestige class with one of your dual mind classes.
Honestly, I'd be more critical of all the PoW additions if my build didn't include incredibly broken stuff on all three of my gestalt paths, which means I'm automatically committed to min-maxing Teniel far more than Makoto has been.
Mmhmm. I figured with how -unoptimized- I am, taking something that ties everything together (and minmaxes for the party) seems reasonable.
I will not, however, be sorry or apologetic for some of the choices I make :p
Actually... which seems like the better choice. Share Language or Comprehend Languages? I think the former is more fitting, as it allows her to share some sort of splendor, as opposed to simply being able to comprehend. The latter worked for -her- to understand more beauty... but I think she's more about sharing when she's at her best.
Thoughts?
Share Language is amazing, and shame on me for forgetting it existed. Take it take it take it, because if you don't I will drop Color Spray and take it instead.
Seriously... with a few hours of rest, Makoto could give the goats the capability to speak with us, which is all any of us really want. You can let someone else take Comprehend, or take it next level.
Also... Share Language makes that whole "talk to them, and maybe go back to their camp" idea much more reasonable.
Yeah, I'll probably grab it. Once Miyu can truespeech (or even once we max out our linguistics :p), it'll be less valuable overall, but for now, it's pretty significant. Especially since Miyu (or one of us) will just be able to tell them what the idea is, and then fix it for everyone. :) And even just having it as a fallback option when we run into someone who speaks Vegefungi Rex... and nothing else... will be of value. :)
Also it lets us TALK to them, which is pretty important right off the bat.
Since I'm putting a point in linguistics anyway and i get 2 languages when i do is it possible i could learn theirs or is it something like druidic?
I was wondering the same thing. If not, I might pick up Read Lips.
I think my monk feat is going to be deflect arrows. Bodyguard might be useful, but I imagine people will be more likely to go for flanking positions than being adjacent to me. Crushing blow also seems possibly useful, but I was planning on focusing on my Int over Wis. Although a -3 to their AC for a minute isn't bad. Especially since the save scales with my level/2.
Oops, apparently Mlinzi already mentioned crushing blow.
I think for now I'll go with mobility. And then I need to plan out some things for the other feat since I just realized whirlwind was all enemies within range and not adjacent/adjacent to each other. And then Teniel pointed out a cyclone of death. So now I need to rethink stuff.
Oh yeah, two whirlwinding reach monks! This will be a DEADLY party!
And I mean, Crushing Blow isn't bad, by any means. I really like the ability to take down a heavily-armored enemy's AC. But then again, I'm kinda already doing that with my trips, so it's only useful against enemies that are larger than me, and with Enlarge Person, that's not too many. I might eventually pick it back up, but something tells Vicious Stomp is going to serve me better, since I can flurry to trip and then do damage on top of it. Gonna need a LOT of AoO's, though.
Don't worry about lowering AC too much—we'll have a lot of flanking in a few levels, as well as ways to increase those flanking bonuses. Plus entangled and shaken for another -4 to hit, -2 to AC and saves.
But this is thinking small. Don't forget about Makoto's Inspire Confidence, your Stunning Fists, my souped-up Color Spray (and later Hold Person), any Grappled condition Tavros inflicts, whatever Lucina sets her Flexibility to, and of course all the various prone enemies. Or the fact that we become effectively invisible when subject to a Darkness spell (and once I craft an Umbral Spell Rod, all our Mage Armors can radiate permanent Darkness fields to keep all enemies constantly flat-footed.
We really need to get Makoto some Darkvision, because that would be an awesome way to fight - Darkness so they can't see us, then just go to town tripping and goring and Color Spraying everything. Constantly flat-footed enemies will make Tavros immensely powerful. I do see one downside to this, of course, as it would mean we'd have to dispel Mage Armor to interact with non-hostiles.
Maks is actually trading away two less-desirable options for Darkvision. I think it fits rather well. She's still probably tied into the whole 'Dark is Evil' trope, but with help, she'll grow out of that. It'll be neat to see which way she heads overall. :)
I'd really like to find a way to give her darkvision in color, though...
Makoto attacks less than the rest of us, so it's not really an issue. And we're just sort of the nocturnal crew.
She's still probably tied into the whole 'Dark is Evil' trope, but with help, she'll grow out of that. It'll be neat to see which way she heads overall. :)
Also, as a Wayang, dass racist. :p
And the best way to see color in darkness is to become a devil.
So... it looks like we've seen three potential courses of action proposed for when our Anuran Spelunker returns...
1. Run the eff away. Flee across the river, leave the goats behind. This made more sense when we had no way of speaking their language.
2. Rest long enough to learn Share Language while keeping an eye on the unconscious goatlings. March the goatlings back to their village, then attempt negotiation or prisoner exchange. Ooc knowledge suggests that our allies may have killed enough of their comrades to make them pretty hostile, though.
3. Compromise option (not necessarily *better*): Run away, taking the one conscious goat as prisoner and leaving the others behind. Level up somewhere further away, then attempt interrogation/negotiation from there.
I say we try to do the right thing. I vote for 2. Spend 8 hours resting and learning how to communicate with them, then try to sue for peace. It will help not only ourselves, but also our allies. I do recommend keeping the others unconscious during that time, though. It'll make them less likely to run away.
Also, assuming we're left unmolested, the significant upgrade to our power from leveling up will put us in a much stronger position should negotiations fail. We'll have more rage rounds, more healing, more spells, more HP, etc, which will help make up for any resources we expended during our fight.
I think two hours of resting might be all we need. And we really don't need to worry about fighting this pack, though a new group with more weapons could be annoying (at least until Makoto and I get actual armor).
I'm pretty sure the Toady one said somewhere that you have to be able to rest for 8 hours to level up. Also, we'll be able to get Mage Armors up this time, which will help a lot. If we get to level 2, it'll start lasting longer, too.
You do not get the XP until you decide to 'rest and reflect'. This basically means several hours in a safe spot, not walking around or exploring or travelling. Staying at the campsite will count despite being the wilderness and maybe more goatlings around etc. The group will have to decide if they want to level up and pause for a few hours of in game time where you can't do much other than chat and relax. You need to be conscious and reasonably unwounded.
Don't think it's a full 8 hours—since we've got about two left to replenish our channels and whatnot, somewhere between 2 and 4 seems about right. Teniel's still pretty suspicious of these locals who tried to murder us in our sleep, but if we keep watch in pairs and rest for the next few hours until we get Share Language, we should be okay.
Assuming the trees are smallish, we can knock down one or two using my sword, Mlinzi's hammer, and Tavros's horns, then make a bit of a defensive wall that would be hard for goatlings to climb over and would give us a view at least 30' into the forest. I don't think it would take more than an hour to knock down and drag a few trees, if they're sufficiently small, and I've sketched out the possibility on the map.
Feat plans for level 2:
Jabbing Style
Bleeding attack
Extra martial flexibility
so i should be able to use my brawlers flurry at +6/+6 for 1d6+1d6+1d6+1d4+1d4+1+1+1+1(+1d6 Sneak )
Level 3: 1d6+1d6+1d6+1d4+1d4+5+5+5+5(+2d6 Sneak)
Level 4: 1d8+1d8+1d6+1d4+1d4+5+5+5+5+2+2(+2d6 Sneak)
So heres hoping my damage scale can keep going and my build works
as far as retraining goes before we have to pay for it the only changes i think i'd want to make are untraining in intimidate and moving the skill point into Know engineering and removing the creative manipulator trait to replace it with Heavy Hitter if regional traits are allowed
I copied my damage wrong it should be
Level 2: 1d6+1d6+1d6+1d4+1d4+1+1+1+1+1+1 (+1d6 Sneak attack)
Level 3: 1d8+1d8+1d6+1d4+1d4+5+5+1+1+1+1 (+2d6 Sneak)
Level 4: 1d8+1d8+1d6+1d4+1d4+5+5+1+1+1+1+2+2 (+2d6 Sneak)
I think thats right i dont know why i added more 5's then i needed sorry
this is also with the heavy hitter trait
Breakdown Level 2: Unarmed+Unarmed+Jabbing Style+Bleeding Attack+Bleeding Attack+Str Mod+str mod+changeling+changeling+Heavy hitter+heavy hitter
Breakdown Level 3: Unarmed+Unarmed+Unarmed+Jabbing Style+Bleeding Attack+Bleeding Attack+Dex mod+Dex mod+changeling+changeling+Heavy hitter+heavy hitter
Breakdown Level 4: Unarmed+Unarmed+Unarmed+Jabbing Style+Bleeding Attack+Bleeding Attack+Dex mod+Dex mod+changeling+changeling+Heavy hitter+heavy hitter+Weapon Specialization+Weapon Specialization
Anyone feel free to double check me i could have easily gotten lost or misunderstood something
also i may change my threatening defender instead of creative manipulator and change vanish to mage armor
Does Bleeding Attack stack with itself? It seems pretty unclear.
Mage Armor is amazing, of course. I do still recommend Sap Adept, as you're already dealing unarmed sneak attacks (which can be nonlethal with no penalty) and thus at level 3 it will add 4 damage/attack, at level 5 add 6 damage/attack, etc. (quickly outpacing Weapon Specialization), and once we start throwing invisibility or darkness everywhere Sap Master can double bludgeoning sneak damage.
No it doesn't just looked it up
Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.
but it will do 1d4 every round unless they heal it with a dc 15 heal or a heal spell so still pretty cool
sap adept is cool but maybe something for later
But can you make them -subdual bleed-!? :o
Hmm. Dev FAQ says all bleed damage is lethal, but it's not an official response.
A Compassionate weapon wouldn't deal nonlethal bleed, but it would stop the bleeding of any character that you KO with the weapon.
Really, bleed does very little damage (the +2 from Weapon Specialization is much higher), but it doesn't stoop quickly, which means it can very effectively take down anyone without healing cantrips who tries to run.
Speaking of Sir Bearington, I believe I have found my cohort...
I don't think we were speaking about that (though I did once propose this character solely as a recruiting pun, and I'm sure Tavros remembers Sir "Definitely not a disguised leopard" Leonard, Cleric of Bast).
Cohort will be tricky. On the one hand, Leadership is another feat to take. On the second, an Orcish Skald with two Rings of Tactical Precision could turn Mlinzi and I into Amplified Rage monsters of mash. On the third, vestigial limb, an Aranea would probably be the most thematically appropriate for Teniel, as well as my favorite Cohort race. On the fourth hand, an Orc-bloodline Aranea sorcerer could be awesome and make everyone happy—but would require us to be level 10 before I can take it, which is sadly far in the future.
Makoto, you might also enjoy a Tanuki, Pixie, or Vulpinal cohort, though I don't know of any ways to get a bear.
***
In other news, it sounds like we've got a consensus as course of action for when the leaping frog lands? At least, two votes for "stay here, level, learn Share Language" and no votes for anything else.
You brought it up only a short time ago, in regards to my character being a fox with an insane disguise and diplomacy. :)
I'd say an awakened bear is plenty feasible as a cohort. :)
I'm pretty amenable to all the options. Just bare in mind that I'm currently at 3 HP.
Also, if Tavros has a cohort, he can have a follow! :-D
It also looks like I probably can't become a whirlwind of doom since my horns don't count as a 2 handed weapon for pushing assault. Unless I find some way around that with a reach weapon.
Lucina will follow whatever plan the group wants and she's at full hp with or without rest
Teniel's okay, but Pamburu took a nasty beating.
Can someone clarify the way feats work for me again?
I know we get a feat every level but is that the feat from our item or does the item have a separate feat progression?
aka at level 2 will I get 1 feat from leveling 1 feat from my item and 1 feat from brawler or just 1 feat from leveling and 1 from brawler? I might end up making my amulet combat feats.
At level 2, you get 1 feat from leveling, one feat from your item, and 1 feat from Brawler. Your item feat has to be a combat feat if the item is a weapon, or a magic feat otherwise, I believe. If you lose your magic item, you lose all your feats, so be careful about prereq chains.
Err... the DM mentioned that if you lose the item, you lose the feats until you can replace it with a new, similar item.
Right. It's not a permanent loss. The special item is a part of the character, but like an Arcane Bond, you have to be aware that it can be lost, stolen, or destroyed.
Hey everyone, I am back, but today/tonight is a bit of a bust for posting. Tomorrow is a holiday for most, but I should catch up and be able to move things along.
No problem CT. Good to have you back!
Thanks for clearing up the feats and wb toad.
Working on my feats and I think ive got a good plan to build off of so far
• Level 3 : Blind-Fight
• Level 4 : Weapon Specialization
• Level 5 : Jabbing Dancer / Moonlight Stalker
• Level 6 : Moonlight Stalker Feint
• Level 7 : Weapon Versatility
• Level 8 : Greater Weapon Focus / Jabbing Master
• Level 9 : Moonlight Stalker Maste
• Level 10 :
• Level 11 :
• Level 12 : Greater Weapon Specialization
I won't be taking sap adept I don't think because i want to avoid investing in sneak attack feats, this is also without my items granted feat.
do item feats have to magic or can they be any general?
Hmm... Jabbing Style is one of the weakest styles offensively, but the mobility Jabbing Dancer gives you is really cool. Was that what you had in mind? Because if you want to go for a mobile, dancey combat style, there's some feats that would really help with that.
1. Maybe get reach, because this will let you hit an enemy 10' away, move 5' towards them, then hit them again and move past them. A Swordmaster's Flair + Weapon Versatility lets you do this for one combat per day, although Lunge is also an option.
2. Wind Stance (when we get to mythic). It's not great now, but as soon as you hit mythic, you can take Mythic Wind Stance which means that as long as you move, you have concealment; as long as you have concealment, you have bonus to hit; and as long as you hit, you move. If you combine this with Combat Reflexes and reach, you can use your AoOs to move (or have allies trigger them, if this is a thing?), keeping the movement benefits even when you're casting spells.
3. If you're feeling really ambitious, Improved Cleaving Finish. It takes a lot of feats to get there, but you'll want Power Attack anyway—and, basically, if you see an infinite line of weak enemies, you can keep running down the line, punching as you go, until you miss one.
4. Buy some Caltrop Boots, surround people in caltrops, aww yeah.
I went jabbing for damage, mobility, and how well it ties in with my build
as it will let me move every time i hit someone without using my move action the moonlight master lets me move when someone misses as an immediate action so a lot of movement without using a move action so ill be mobile while still being able to full attack also considering Counter punch at level 13 so that in theory i could attack-move-provoke aoo and if they miss i can hit them again and move again without provoking
1. I may buy a reach weapon when we get to town or look into enlarge person
2. I'm going to be rushing Minor Displacement which grants perma 20% concealment and since im a changeling that will be upd to 25% and when i get moonlight master it will go to 35% without having to use a move of any kind
3. I'm already pretty feat heavy as far as trees but this is just a general guide so might change
4. yea those are cool
Ooh, hadn't even thought of Counter Punch. But there's an even more powerful similar option, if you want to go full crazy with the counter-attacks:
1. Cheese Dip MoMS monk.
2. Panther Style all the way through to Panther Parry if you can. (Two levels in MoMS give you Panther Claw, which lets you counter-AoO every time you're AoO'd, and Panther Parry builds on top of that to give you AoOs before they get to hit you—combined with Mobility, you can take a regular movement and use it to glide across the battlefield pummeling people without getting hit).
(You can actually get that pretty darn early, if you shuffle feats around a bit).
How big of changes are we allowed to make? I'm considering changing brawling into unchanged monk and switching my con and wis around
Once everyone has rested and reflected and actually leveled up to second level, there is no more tweaking allowed outside of retraining, and even then no class or archetype changes are allowed.
So right now we are still in trail phase and adjustments are allowed.
Oh, and also: Will my Gregarious Trait (reroll diplomacy 1/day) have any effect if I'm using perform, or should I swap that out, too?
Do you use perform in place of diplomacy?
Yup
I know this was discussed previously, what ability lets you do this.
Versatile Performance for Bard
It is still a diplomacy check, you just are using the bonus in your perform skill in place of the normal diplomacy skill. Therefore you can still use Gregarious.
If the group wishes, now is the time you can decide to fully level up. It will take the better part of the morning as you focus on what you have learned in the new lands. After that, your characters are locked in and cannot be changed without retraining.