Mlinzi Nwosu |
Okay. Do you want us to wait until our level-ups are approved before changing our sheets?
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
I believe I have updated everything. Believe being the operative word. Seems I lost a few of my changes and had to fill it in. Not overly terrible though.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
Also: @CaveToad: I would suggest before pressing forward and people going their own ways, you ask that everyone post in discussion after they update your character. With you gone for a week, I'd be -very- surprised if you hadn't already lost people. People are fickle, yanno?
Dalang Teniel |
Yeah... usually games I'm in lose 1/4 or so of the characters after week 1, although people in this recruitment did seem unusually eager.
Tavros |
I'm still here. Although I seem to have somehow lost the doc I was using to plan what feats I would take, so I need to redo it before updating my character sheet. :/
Tavros |
Ok, I think I've got my feats planned out until about level 10. I'm pleased to say that while me and Mlinzi seem to have similarities in our builds, we've clearly prioritized differently.
2 Mobility
3 Broken PoW walk on water feat
4 Spring Attack
5 Vicious Stomp
6 Horn of the Criosphyinx
7 Improved Bull Rush
8 Pummeling Charge
9 Punishing Kick
10 Weapon Specialization (horns)
11
12 Greater Weapon Focus (horns)
13
14 Maximized/Quickened metamagic
15 Spell Perfection
Item:
2 Combat Expertise (should be ok since Trip via monk ignores pre-reqs and everything else requiring it are currently on the item as well)
4 Whirlwind Attack
6 Ki Throw
8 Minotaur's Charge
10 Greater Trip
Monk:
2 Deflect Arrows
6 Improved Trip
10 Improved Critical (horns)
14 Medusa's Wrath?
Magus:
5 Intensified Spell
11 Maximized/Quickened metamagic
Here's a quick summary of Tavros' level up (will work on getting the info into his character sheet in a bit).
Feats: Mobility, Deflect Arrows (monk), and Combat Expertise (item)
Class Abilities: Evasion, Evasion, Spellstrike, Stand Up (rogue talent) [the surprise round one will do more for me at a higher level]
Spells: Burning Hands, Feather fall
New dance: Paso doble
Also, does anybody have any ideas about getting rid of evasion from either the Unchained Monk or the Unchained Rogue (scout)? I'm currently getting it from both classes, and I'd rather not have duplicates, but Smuggler doesn't seem in line with my character and Underground Chemist also takes away my 4th level rogue talent in addition to giving me stuff that's not really useful for my build.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
There's also Sczarni Swindler, but I as a DM wouldn't let someone play that on PbP: "Oh look, it just so happens that I previewed what I was going to do, and get a bonus to the thing I really want."
Pretty sure you're unchained, so you can't change monk at all. :(
Magical Tailx2 (Any 2)
Fox Shape 3
?Vulpine Pounce 10
Figment's Fluidity 3
Evolved Familiar X (Any)
Extra Evolution x5 (1, 5, 10, 15, 20)
?Eldritch Heritage x3 (3, 11, 17)
?Skill Focus (Any)
Deific Obedience (3)
Clarifying Channel (4)
Quick Channel (5)
Selective Channeling (4)
Reactive Healing (5+)
Extra Performance X (Any)
Discordant Voice (10)
Lingering Performance (Mythic)
?Bless Equipment (4)
?Improved Bless Equipment (9)
?Greater Bless Equipment (12)
Bear in mind that these are not the levels I take them, but the earliest that I -could- take them. And I'm -way- over budget. :P
Tavros |
Huh, that's an interesting archetype. Although I can't take it with Scout, which gets rid of Uncanny Dodge, anyway.
Dalang Teniel |
There aren't really any good archetypes I can think of that replace evasion. :/
Personally, I'm just planning to dip fighter and monk for like 8 extra feats through cheese dips. But Psionic is another good source of extra feats.
Lucina Rampant |
Yeah you'd have to use rogue to replace it monk cant change.
I've been planning to dip swashbuckler at 4 for deeds and arcanist at 8 because teleporting is cool.
Dalang Teniel |
Hmm... the Dimensional Slide thing is only 10/level, though, so if you do it as your second cheese dip you'll never be able to teleport more than 20 feet as a move action.
Dalang Teniel |
Oh, sure... but once you learn Dimension Door at Sorcerer 8, you could take the Dimensional Agility feat chain for tons more teleportation.
Lucina Rampant |
Not seeing many good classes for a level 8 cheese dip maybe just fighter for more feats
**Edit**
I think i found something pretty epic if i take MoMS monk i can take Kobold Style to make everyone you guys trip get hit with sneak attak
Dalang Teniel |
Mlinzi makes sure to tell Jovar to greet the others for him, and sends instructions for how to make the pine needle tea, and its importance in warding off disease.
I love how "DC 10 knowledge check this is"... none of our characters know enough about nature or nutrition to realize we could also just eat pine needles. Also, while it's hard to get it from meat, you can get enough vitamin C from a mostly-fish diet to ward off scurvy.
Mlinzi Nwosu |
I think my character update is finished. Upgrade to level 2 and trading out Crushing Blow for Vicious Stomp.
CaveToad |
Not seeing many good classes for a level 8 cheese dip maybe just fighter for more feats
**Edit**
I think i found something pretty epic if i take MoMS monk i can take Kobold Style to make everyone you guys trip get hit with sneak attak
Keep in mind the size requirement.
Lucina Rampant |
MoMS Monk lets him ignore the prereq of the first and second style feats or am i reading wrong?
At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat or the Elemental Fist feat. He does not have to meet the prerequisites of that feat, except the Elemental Fist feat. Alternatively, a master of many styles may choose a feat in that style’s feat path (such as Earth Child Topple) as one of these bonus feats if he already has the appropriate style feat (such as Earth Child Style). The master of many styles does not need to meet any other prerequisite of the feat in the style’s feat path.
Dalang Teniel |
Kobold Style's okay... but we're never going to have trouble getting sneak attacks with flanking and darkness and fear and whatnot. Definitely worthwhile unless there's something you want more.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
If he accepts her spell! :o
Dalang Teniel |
Just realized I'm the only one in the party who can cast Enhanced Diplomacy, because it's divine. Dang! Guess I'll take it next level >.>
Mlinzi Nwosu |
That's a beautiful diplomacy roll.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
:) Could get better with aid. Could also get better with magic. :P and does get better next level (+21) :)
Dalang Teniel |
That's a beautiful diplomacy roll.
I have a regular, 6th-level summoner who once killed a quest boss by rolling a 46 on his Bluff check. Social skills are great, though it looks like Makoto has Diplomacy covered while I go Intimidate.
Also: Teniel's not aiding, because he doesn't feel very diplomatic right now. Those guys were meanies.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
I found Agile Dancer. It's actually a Social Trait... yanno... if Tavros is more interested in that. :) And it's not too late.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
If it is not too late, I'd like to take the Path of War Paladin Archetype found here on Makoto instead of Sacred Servant. Please and thank you. :)
I just found it... and it seems quite fitting (more focus on protecting allies, rather than breaking down enemies).
Control + F Knight Disciple
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
Actually... portions of it are kinda hard to justify. I'll basically recover all my maneuvers, for pretty much forever... by spending a full round action granting all of my allies +6 (or more) to AC and Saves. Then, my smite evil is replaced by 'everyone has DR 6 (or more!) against this one guy!', I lose Lay on Hands, but gain a temporary hitpoints buffer, the mercies are close to worthless now (which I'm a little displeased with), and I gain a lot of incombat options (like allowing allies to move, gaining AC, gaining a heal+hit, gaining a swift action movement... etc.)
I gain so much nice stuff... and lose basically mercies and on-demand lay-on-hands.
I'm just not sure. The parts that are good are broken, and the stuff I lose seems so... minor, by comparison. Especially since my out of combat healing is already good, and this spikes up my incombat healing.
Thoughts?
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
I'm not sure, yet... I'm having a hard time with it, because... from my point of view, unless things go very wrong, it looks like if I go this route, the ideal path, much of the time, will be to use boosts and my 'recover maneuvers' ability -constantly-, after Censuring something.
So... gist is: Make one thing hit for -6. Throw out buffs like 'give an ally a free move action' and 'make a free 5 foot step'. Then just kind of slowly move about the battlefield, creating this zone of +6 AC, Saving throws.
At higher levels it just gets more ridiculous. It just seems so... stupid that the ideal options to keep my team alive if I go this route is to just constantly do nothing but create an aura of insanely-hard-to-hurt, while throwing out bursts like 'you gain 2d6+6 healing!'. Cannot unsee. :(
Also, all of those '6's' scale with charisma.
CaveToad |
Yeah its pretty nutty. I won't like use it again in future campaigns, but I never used 3rd party stuff before and felt like just throwing some crazy powerful stuff into an already powerful idea. I really try not to compare it to vanilla PF stuff, because of the scale of the campaign, and even vanilla PF has its tiers of power as you move from core to include each new thing that comes out of the devs.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
I definitely like some of the ideas presented. I could totally see taking one tradition to fluff out a martial character a bit, granting them a neat stance and stuff like that... but then when you have access to multiple traditions, and all sorts of crazy powers, it gets tougher to say 'okay, yeah, sure.'
I understand that it balances out with other classes around level 13ish, but prior to that, I feel like it just obsolesces so much.
I mean, even my character, with a +2 Cha headband at 6, will be able to just kind of stand there, granting all allies +8 to AC and all Saves. Or I can stab someone. Why would I stab someone. :|
I think I've talked myself out of it; I don't want to completely unbalance encounters on that one line. I'm still not entirely pleased with Sacred Servant... but I just can't justify the class to myself. It'd be different if I had like a 14 charisma, but a 22 just makes me go 'no, never do anything else.'
I do plan to grab some warlord still, though. It's at least a little less cheesy. :(
Dalang Teniel |
I actually support the Knight Discipline, conceptually. It only goes up to level 6 maneuvers, while having less broken class abilities than a Warlord or a Stalker, and seems to add some utility to Paladins without throwing off their power that much (I am one of the few people on the forums of the outspoken opinion that Paladins are extremely underpowered).
Guardian's Shield is definitely OP, but nothing else in the class is—and unlike warriors, Paladins actually have a fluff reason to grant temporary HP. The sacred +8 to AC is very unbalanced, definitely; no ability I know of ever gives a sacred bonus of more than +5 to anything, and they generally scale with level. If you like the archetype more but don't want to be stuck not moving, consider self-crippling with any or all of the following options:
1. The sacred bonus is instead scales with your class level, e.g. 1+level/5
2. The sacred bonus is instead a deflection bonus (a la Smite Evil) and thus doesn't stack with rings of protection
3. The bonus only applies to adjacent allies, like Bodyguard; since it's a full-round action, positioning becomes important and it can't be used unless we're already turtling
4. The bonus can only be given the first time you recover maneuvers every round, making it useful but something you need to be tactical about. Or it has a number of uses equal to the normal number of smite evils for a paladin of your level.
P.S. Remember that a halfling mythic marshal, at tier 10, gives an untyped +14 AC to all adjacent allies.
Mlinzi Nwosu |
Oh wow, sorry for not posting more today, guys. My computer crashed and I had to reinstall windows. I'm just getting back online.
Hotaru of the Society |
Re: Mythic Halfling: I'm getting +13 with my human, so there. Also, Add Cavalier of the Dragon for more awesome.
I think I like that first one. It nerfs the power level to the point that I don't feel like I'm better off doing -nothing- in order to be proactive.
How's that sound, Cavetoad? It's a direct nerf to the ability, but it makes me feel better about taking it and helps me to not feel like I'm turning the power curve upside down. :)
@Mlinzi: So angers. So very angers.
CaveToad |
Eh, yeah I assume they didn't take into account people with super high stats when they made that up, which is weird, because who wouldn't jack their Cha super high with that ability. Keep in mind I scale the encounters somewhat based on power, so it just means you fight harder stuff ;) but I agree standing around being obligatory shielder is about as much fun as being the healing-bot. I hope or suspect that it gets tweaked in their final revision, perhaps to keep is simple I will just halve (round down) the bonus and you choose one or the other, saves or AC not both.
It is still potent, but less as attractive. Still it is a bit crazy. Its like a double feature auto success AoE aid-another with Helpful thrown in.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
I took Ghost Hunter (my stuff counts as Ghost Touch), took Silver Crane Waltz (+4 Initiative, 2 reflexes, and 2 AC) as my stance, and took Pride Movement, Enduring Crane Strike, Crane Step, and Hunting Party as my Maneuvers.
I may only prepare three of these, which should I choose:
Pride Movement lets me grant an immediate move action to an ally as a swift action
.
Enduring Crane Strike lets me attack and heal an ally for 1d6 as a standard action.
Crane Step lets me make a five foot step as a swift action.
Hunting Party lets me attack and grant an ally an attack of opportunity as a standard action.
I'm leaning towards Pride Movement, Enduring Crane Strike, and Crane Step. Hunting Party seems rather nice as long as I'm adjacent to teammates, though. And it becomes great around 7th.
Dalang Teniel |
Crane strike is less useful with your special paladin ability to grant temp HP when you hit, I think. And remember with Hunting Party that our party is filled with Reach and Combat Reflexes.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
Well, Reach won't come into play much, Combat reflexes will. I think I have to use a strike (such as enduring crane, or hunting party) to activate my shield.
Dalang Teniel |
Fair enough. Silver Crane stance is, of course, insane; but here it mostly just makes up for the fact that we're all going to get far more bonus feats than you.
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
I could instead take 'Blind Fight and Roll Perception Twice, and gain a bonus to perception' Instead. :)
Makoto 'Maks' Kasumi |
Works, and I wrote it in. As for themes being too broad, I think I may be able to consolidate it a bit more as the game goes on, and Maks gets a better idea of the things she specifically cares about.
Dalang Teniel |
Honestly Makoto's theme seems to be one of the more concise to me. There are a lot of tables where all the characters either have multiple themes listed or none at all, to the best of my knowledge, when I was trying to put together table-by-table metathemes.