Cthulu is a malignant dead god from the writings of HP Lovecraft. Cthulu is sort of the biggest and meanest lobster ever.
Now you know what Cthulu is. What the post is about is another mystery.
Yes Chillel you silly! I knew about Cthulu already. I want to know what's in that video?!?!?
But wait, Cthulu a lobster? UUUMMMM ... Cthulu does not have any pincers like a lobster that I'm aware of, nor does he have the tail of the lobster, nor all the legs of a lobster, nor the long antennae of a lobster, nor the hard shell of a lobster ... his most known feature is all the 'tentacle-like' protrusions around where his mouth presumably is? And I don't know of any lobster having 'tentacle-like' protrusions? So how do you get that he's a lobster? I'm guessing you stared at Cthulu too long and lost whatever sanity you had? ;)
Then again, it's after 5 in the morning and I'm STILL awake, so maybe I'm the insane one! Or at least I will be later today when I'm running on very little sleep!
Chris Cornell died this past evening. Lead singer of Soundgarden and Audioslave. Saddening. Great vocalist, good lyricist.
Chris Cornell died this past evening. Lead singer of Soundgarden and Audioslave. Saddening. Great vocalist, good lyricist.
Unresponsive in the bathroom... Sounds like Pink Floyd, The Wall... One more man to add support to the tortured artist stereotype/cliche. Sad news, I love his vocals. One of the very nice things about the modern technological era. His voice will survive for a very long time, even though his body did not. I guess that's your silver lining for today. You can still listen to Chris Cornell's heartfelt lyrics even though the man himself has left us.
Have I ever told you guys how much I hate math?
Are you sure?
Illiam/Mr. Cameron, I find myself in a situation where your affinity for that darkest of disciplines could be of great help. I am trying to run some DPR calculations utilizing the Spheres of Might playtest rules, and I, quite simply, can't understand how to set up the equations -- even at level 1. That bit hinges on a "contingent" attack . . . . Makes my head hurt just trying to figure how to assign a justifiable probability to that type of function . . . . .
You get it.
If you have time, interest, and willingness (I've been too busy to tackle the project, and I'm over a week behind my target date; just mentioning that to illustrate this -- if you're unable to help, or unwilling [given my *fabulously* intractable attitude toward the subject matter], no problem: I understand completely), I know I would stand to gain a great deal if you could/would help me understand the math.
And all of that is for your consideration, as well, Chillel/Joynt.
A few more things for your deliberations:
1) It is safe to be sure that all I know about mathematics is the order of operations, and that is sometimes chancy. The only math teacher I had for anything other than the most basic parts of algebra had a presentational style that would render C-SPAN a euphoric rush of fireworks, beautiful women, and my favorite music, in comparison. With good alcohol being served, too. In short, I *can* do the work, but I've never understood *why* to do it, nor *how*. Does that make any sense? It's like . . . . I need to fully grasp the *purpose* of the formula in order to put it to use, maybe??
"These numbers and symbols mean this number over here. Can you do that with those numbers? No?! Well, too bad. Here's your C."
2) Somewhat related to the above: I don't know that I'd be able to field instruction/assistance from more than one person well. Many mathophiles (is that even a word? Or the right one?) have told me that the only reason I don't like math is because I was "taught" by someone who couldn't explain it to me in a way I could internalize or engage with . . . . The few times I have tried to add another "skill rank" in Knowledge (dafuq?), I received answers from those "in the know" that all came across to me as being totally different from one another, even if I framed the questions as specifically limited as I was able (some English teacher's kid I am, huh?).
3) blahblahblahblahblah. BLAH.
tl;dr -- Either of you Crayola-deniers think you could coach me on some DPR mathematics? And would you be willing to do so, if you had time and opportunity? I'll *try* to be a good student.
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By "contingent attack", do you mean like with Cleave? If I understand what you're asking...
The basics of a DPR calculation, as I understand it, is that you multiply the damage you could do by the probability that you will do it. So, if you have an attack that does 1d6+3 damage (average 6.5) with a +4 attack bonus. Vs. an AC14, you have a 55% chance of hitting times an average damage of 6.5, which gives you .55 * 6.5 = 3.575. You're not done there, though, because you have a chance to crit. A standard weapon has a 5% chance of a critical threat, and confirming that would give you double damage (or an additional 6.5 points). The chances of that are the chances of rolling a critical thread times the chance of confirming it, and that times the additional damage is added to the total. So, your calculation becomes .55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5 = 3.75375. Now, let's say you are using cleave, so you get to make another attack if the first one hits. Your equation then becomes .55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5 + .55 * (.55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5) = 1.55 + ( .55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5) = 5.8183125.
In case you were thinking of a "second chance" attack that you get to attempt only if the first misses (I think 4E has those, but I'm not sure), there you would calculate the damage for the first attack normally, (.55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5), then add the damage calculation for the second attack. In this scenario, you only get to make the second attack if the first misses, so you take the normal equation and multiply it by the chance that you will get a chance to attempt it, or (1 - .55), so the full equation would be .55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5 + (1 - .55) * (.55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5) = 1.45 + ( .55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5) = 5.4429375.
Now, let's say you just get a single attack, but you have a level of rogue and get 1d6 sneak attack damage (average 3.5). Now, how you play is going to determine how often you get that extra damage, but let's say for the sake of argument that you have good tactics that allow you to get it 90% of the time. That damage isn't multiplied on a crit, so it doesn't go into that part of the calculation, but you can just add the extra damage out front, so you get .9 * .55 * 3.5 + .55 * 6.5 + .05 * .55 * 6.5 = 1.7325 + 3.75375 = 5.48625.
Now, in all of these equations I was assuming a .55 chance of hitting with your attack bonus against whatever AC you happen to be up against. You can break that out into a variable (algebra time!) and call it x. So, your damage per round for one attack would be x * (6.5 + .05 * 6.5) = x * (1.05 * 6.5) = x * 6.825, and x is your attack bonus + 11 - their AC. It's 11 instead of 10 because 10-20 are hits, which is 11 of the 20 values, or 55%. When you have an attack that you can only make if your first attack hits, like with Cleave (and we're assuming for this purpose that you are cleaving to someone with the same AC as the first guy), you now have to multiply x by itself, for the chance of hitting on the second attack, which is contingent on hitting with the first attack, so the equation is x * (1.05 * 6.5) + x^2 * (1.05 * 6.5) = (x + x^2) * (1.05 * 6.5). Remember that because x is less than one, x squared will be smaller than x.
Does that help at all?
Sounds interesting.
And interesting problems affect me like this .
I know DPR is damage per round. But at present I don't know much else specific about your problem. It sounds like something I could do.
I suspect I have more time than Illiam, who I think has a full time job and I don't.
You will have to get the problem you want solved to me somehow. I will PM you my email address which might be suitable.
" In short, I *can* do the work, but I've never understood *why* to do it, nor *how*."
It makes perfect sense. It is common for students at school to be able to do maths problems if presented exactly the way they are used to, but only then. They can do it by rote, but only by rote.
I am actually reasonably good at explaining complex problems in a way that someone has some hope of understanding. Not a common ability.
Just how we will get along trying to do it over the internet is another question. Willing to try. I would be more confident if we could sit down together for an hour or so.
1) I'll take all of that as an initial "Yes!". XD
2) It may be helpful if we continued this effort via PM -- I don't want to inundate my fellow Crayola fans with anything . . . contagious. lol
3) The "contingent attack" only triggers when a main-hand *and* off-hand both hit, in this case.
4) I am familiar with the following equation: DPR = h(d+p)+chmd
h = % to hit, as decimal
d = weapon damage and crit-legal modifiers
p = precision/non-crit-multiplied damage
c = % to threaten crit, as decimal
m = critical multiplier value (effectively at -1 value; x2 = 1, x3 = 2, etc.)
5) Target AC values being as critical as they are, do you know of a progression (or source) indicating a "generic average" for character-level-driven encounters?
Finally: you've covered the bits and pieces I've learned to handle on my own, except for your initial treatment of the "contingent attack". That bit I *almost* understand. It isn't the specific need with which I am faced now, but it *will* apply in higher-level calculations, perhaps.
When you PM me, try to break it down as simply as you can -- I'll need color-coded bricks to build this particular castle.
And:
Thanks, chief. :)
Well, I have no plane ticket funds, little vacation time available, and Australia is a fair journey away, Joynt. A sit-down would probably do me the most good, but an unofficial correspondence course is the best I can manage. :)
. . . . . !!
Are we gonna have to start a math playground thread for Illiam??! lol
Though that could work, maybe . . . .
Math-by-post.
What's the world coming to?? I'm trying to learn math!!!
Oh, and Chillel?
Watch out for those 18-wheelers/tractor-trailers, okay?
:D
I will try to email you this weekend.
Thanks!
I suspect I have more time than Illiam, who I think has a full time job and I don't.I'm self-employed, so full-time-ish, but it's uneven. I'm traveling for a conference at the moment, so probably checking-in less than usual over the weekend, and mostly early/late.
Interesting. And you co-write books. What else do you do, if I may ask.
Your math all looks correct to me at first glance. Which is not really surprising.
I'm gonna just keep walking along, intentionally looking the other way. ;)
I know that I hate math. I seem to understand it even less than Syrus. I was home-schooled and my poor mother did not understand algebra at all. My father understood it, but the communication on that subject was just not compatible between us.
That being said I know that RL and even gaming requires math, and that math formulas can be very useful. I actually have an excel spreadsheet that I created myself to do my character sheets for 3.5 and I set it up so that I only had to change my level and any ability scores and for the most part it calculated everything else including the DC, duration and range of spells. Math was very useful for that. It took me several months (most likely more than a year maybe even two?) to come up with it, and still to this day I occasionally make changes/tweaks to it modifying and adjusting to different classes and such. Even for my ability scores I just put in the actual number and it automatically fills in the modifier.
Speaking of math... Illiam have you cast some sort of a glamour on the dice algorithm? I'm still sitting in awe of your most recent rolls. Terrible at the beginning has turned into absolutely phenomenal at level 2. :) @Syrus, seriously? Why can't you just let this hobby peacefully exist without math screwing it up?! Just for that something bad is going to happen to your character. Yes, that's right, personal GM vendetta about to be exercised. XD
Vengeance enacted! You thought I was going to attack Kairon didn't you? Nope, because I know you wouldn't care if your character died, but you do care very much if one of the other characters dies.
Especially since Kairon is the group's healer, and it is one of his paramount jobs to make sure that doesn't happen. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Take that math!
Once again an innocent bystander falls, the poor victim of a drive-by mathing! :( :P ;)
Hmmm. Quandary.
I tried to use the round I cast burning hands in a fashion that *did not* reflect knowledge of the assassin vine's targeting of Dolok when we had our "action miscommunication" (by the way, Mended: nothing to apologize for :) ), but due to our current positioning, I rather doubt Kairon will be able to wrest Dolok from the beastie . . . .
Perhaps the fire spell will serve to draw the monster after Kairon, since it is still threatened?
(About to update "active conditions", too.)
Too bad Goruck's most recent attack missed . . . .
But I think Kairon is going to have to try to pull our pyromancer free of the vine's grasp, or find out how Mended applies healing magic in a grappling situation . . . .
Feedback, gang?
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I already said in-character, grab him and run. I don't see the percentage in killing this thing if we can escape instead. I would hate to have to use the bead of force to bail you guys out. I'm sure we'll have a moment in the future when that will be useful and running away won't be as good an option.
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Btw, I would NOT try to heal him while it's still grappling him, if at all possible. Hopefully, if he's unconscious, it will let go of him to try to grab someone else, providing an opportunity to pick him up and carry him out (might help if Dolok would total up his character's weight with gear for us). If it does keep trying to kill him on its next turn, and he hasn't been pulled free, it will likely kill him whether healing magic has been used or not, so it's not even a stopgap. I don't see anything specific in the rules about it, but I assume that another character can attempt a combat maneuver against the vine to break its grapple, since Dolok can't attempt it himself (and as I read it, the CMD for that purpose is 19 + 13 - 10 - 2 = 20, and I don't suppose applying additional grease to Dolok would stack to make that easier)? Also, I don't think Chillel's web bolt will have any effect unless it does decide to release Dolok, since it already has the grappled condition.
Really, unless the vine decides to go for another target now that Dolok has gone limp, I think he's pretty unlikely to survive this. So, other than the GM taking pity or Kairon manages to break the grapple, Dolok will probably be dead on the vine's turn. Of course, if that happens, the vine can either go for him again or do the same to someone else. Even with the grease, it has a +12 to grapple. It killing Dolok might be the only way Goruck and Kairon both make it out alive.
It doesn't look good.
175 lbs total. gear and all.
Well, at least it dropped me, but now I'm still grappled! Not to mention the whole unconscious and dying thing!
I would have informed the party that I have a potion of cure light in my belt pouch if the Mended allows me to retcon that?
And since it saved against Chillel's webbolt it doesn't matter anyways, but out of curiosity, Mended, wouldn't Illiam's grease actually have given the vine a bonus to avoid becoming webbed? Just seems to me like if it's all greased up, then it should be harder for the webbing to stick to it right?
Just entangled, I think, Dolok. And I wouldn't sweat the potion -- Kairon's about to patch you up.
I did think about actually giving it a bonus to reflex save, but I always like to rule in favor of the PCs, and there's nothing in the spell description that says grease makes it more difficult to be entangled. :)
Has anybody heard from Chillel?
I've gotten rather lost ... Whose turn is it? All those ooc posts made me lose track if it was people actually taking their turn or what was going on.
Chillel did post in my game yesterday afternoon. Is it her/his turn?
Yeah. Mended is holding his description until Chillel makes another gameplay post.
Doh!
I didn't realise it was my turn. My bad.
Does the assassin vine seem OP for a CR3 to anyone else? I mean, it's easy to pick-off with arrows from 40ft away, but it's pretty damn deadly close up, and with a CMD of 32 for breaking its grapple, almost impossible to escape for appropriate-level characters.
Yes, when I looked at the stats of this, and the abilities (free action entangle in a 30' radius) I knew it could go sour really fast. Thankfully it looks like you guys have it relatively under control at this point, but, yes, totally agree that CR3 seems more than a tad low for what this thing can do, and what it is immune/resistant to.
Yeah, being able to easily shrug off damage from the two primary energy damage types provided by most 1st and 2nd level spells (at and a little past our caster level) is a pretty big deal. The fact that our two energy DPR characters are invested in those two types is more a footnote than anything.
With another melee-primary combatant, it likely would have gone differently, but not by much.
So, two things:
1a) How do you rule on the mending spell and used ammunition, Mended?
1b) Don't we have at least one light crossbow?
2) I still want us to finish this thing off. :)
Dolok has a light crossbow strapped over his shoulder with bolts hanging on his hip. :D If someone else wants too take and use it or get Dolok back to consciousness so he can use it?
If possible, I would very much like to see this beast brought low. More trophies right?
Side note, I'm finally graduated!
Congratulations Goruck.
Where to now?
I rather doubt vines make good trophies, but I believe Kairon has enough in-character reason to see such a threat thwarted for evermore.
As far as the bead goes: don't, then. We have the ability and the tools to kill it in mundane fashion. But whatever it takes, it takes, given that characters engage it to that end.
Yeah, being able to easily shrug off damage from the two primary energy damage types provided by most 1st and 2nd level spells (at and a little past our caster level) is a pretty big deal. The fact that our two energy DPR characters are invested in those two types is more a footnote than anything.
With another melee-primary combatant, it likely would have gone differently, but not by much.
So, two things:
1a) How do you rule on the mending spell and used ammunition, Mended?
1b) Don't we have at least one light crossbow?
2) I still want us to finish this thing off. :)
1a) Never thought about it until you just asked. I wouldn't have a problem with you using that to restore "lost" ammunition, but you realize the spell has a ten minute casting time...? Ten minutes to get back one arrow seems foolish at best, don't you think?
1b) Dolok answered this.2) By all means, please do. I'm about to see how the dice algorithm favor this viney bad guy.
Congrats Goruck!
Congrats Goruck!
Oh yeah!!! Completely blanked this. Congraduations Goruck!!!! Off to make the world a better place. :)
Grats, mountain-man!
And as for ten minutes per bolt/arrow --
I don't find that wasteful at all, really. Sure, it puts a new constraint on time, but fixing 6 pieces of ammunition in a day could be crazy kinds of efficient. Especially during "slow" days of our adventuring. A couple per night . . . . etc., etc., etc.
"Infinite wand of crossbow bolts".
Tactically impractical, strategically taxing, but *cheap* and useful!
Completely understand. I don't think I would do it, but I've always been a frivolous spendthrift.
Now, that doesn't directly affect me, but clearly implies that they think I'm overpaid, as she runs the only truly profitable branch of our business. And, quite frankly, I'm doing solid management-level work for a lower wage than that for which fast-food workers here in the States are striking. I'm worth every penny of *at least* half again what I'm currently paid now, simply due to the particulars of my responsibilities as parts manager and de facto service manager. Three times the workload for less than a living wage, and you're trying to cut off the one person that can pay all your labor, costs, and still generate a respectable profit for your business??!! Even before you start dealing with *my* immediate situation??!!
Absolutely ridiculous.
It's the walking ticket for me, it seems.
Y'all know of any logistics openings anywhere?
To me it sounds like your business's new owners are complete idiots. Either that or the business is barely viable at best.
It is a fashionable management style to slash staff costs to increase short term profits.
All the indications are you are right to look for other employment. Being underpaid, overworked or insecure in your job is bad. All three is just vile.
Good luck. I don't know of suitable work, and a suitable job on the other side of the world would not help much anyway.
** spoiler omitted **
No, but they're building a huge hog processing plant just north of where I live in Iowa. There's supposed to be something like 1,000 jobs added once the plant is operational in 2019. I'm fairly certain they are in the process of hiring for management and technical positions right now: Prestage Farms. Side benefit, you'd live close enough that we could actually game in person!!! :)
Good morrow friends. Not sure how many of you are computer RPG fans, but Paizo has recently authorized Owlcat Games to make a true Pathfinder rules based CRPG using the Kingmaker AP as the story and mechanical driving mechanism. I am super excited about this game, and the possibilities it represents.
They are currently running a Kickstarter. Just wanted to get the word out to as many people as possible. If you have friends that are CRPG players that might be interested please pass the information along.
Thanks!
MW
Dolok, after being healed suitably enough to continue, ...
Pardon me, other than this post from Mended, I have not seen any posts about Dolok actually receiving any more healing. So ... am I stil at 0 HP or what? I do have a potion of CLW I can take and will if needed, but thought I'd check first.
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On a different subject, CURSE YOU MENDED! Sharing that CRPG with us! Now I'm going to have to spend money on that! :P - You understand I'm not really cursing you of course. That does look like the kind of game I really like! Actually designed for solo play! I don't like all these on-line games that to beat the boss you are obligated to join up with other players. ... Hmm, that does sound like PBP doesn't it? But PBP is different somehow. Anyways ...
Sorry I haven't made my "doctoral post" yet, folks. Busybusy.
But on that point: I'm not 100% sure which way I "should" have Kairon tend to Dolok. Using more charges of the wand would seem reasonable, but so, too, would be using the potion of CMW he's been holding since the first stop at the monastery. I'm open to suggestions.
If I don't read anything within the next couple hours, I'm probably going to use the wand, since Kairon's the only one that can use it without requiring die rolls.
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IIRC, you also haven't used Channel Energy yet this game. We could start running into undead as soon as we go underground, and obviously they're more valuable when multiple characters need healing, but it's another option to consider. Otherwise, I'd say probably use the wand. Speaking of which, next time we're in town, we should invest in a wand of infernal healing. It's more reliable and a better value than CLW when you have the time to use it.