Mass Effect: Torchbearers (Inactive)

Game Master UltraFennec

I'm thinking about it, but for now don't worry about equipment. Everyone's gonna get outfitted at game start.

Well, if someone else has taken the human tech idea... Hrm...

Here's what I've got. Again, not use to Saga Edition rules, so if I got something wrong, lmk. Copied the the sheet form.

So, for submitted characters thus far, on the fourm anyways, we have an Asari Biotic, Salarian Infiltrator, and Human Biotic. Wonder what else we'll see.

Edit: And now a Turian Soldier, who is currently un-crunchy. Awesome.

Really wish we could have played Elcor. Then I could have played this guy.

No mechanics yet, but I've put together a rather short bit about the character.

Name: Silak Korchik
Species: Turian
Gender: Male

History: Enlisted at age 15, as per mandatory service regulations. Immediately showed excellent proficiency with a large variety of weapon classes, as well as tactical maneuvers. Served four tours of duty, mostly in high combat areas. Was present during assault on the Citadel, acting as a rescue officer defending evacuees.

Present: Currently holds rank equivalent to Alliance Staff Sergeant. Continues to serve within the military admirably after his mandatory military service ended. Excellent tactical thinking combined with peerless combat skills has earmarked him for SHADE candidacy.

Soldier class. Basically thinking assault rifle, ammo powers, heavy weapons, fortification. Take some specialization talents and battle tactics stuff. Mix in blender, enjoy. One thing I'd like to note is that by canon Fortification is not a biotic power. It's Grunt's uber warsuit with its reactive nanomesh weave matrix reducing the overall impact of attacks. Just wanted to be sure that I wasn't going to have to gain biotic powers somehow to use that.

Soldier class. Basically thinking assault rifle, ammo powers, heavy weapons, fortification. Take some specialization talents and battle tactics stuff. Mix in blender, enjoy. One thing I'd like to note is that by canon Fortification is not a biotic power. It's Grunt's uber warsuit with its reactive nanomesh weave matrix reducing the overall impact of attacks. Just wanted to be sure that I wasn't going to have to gain biotic powers somehow to use that.

As it is a temporary power however, saying it is something static,like a weave is insufficient. I suggest it be described as a special powered weave built into the suit that uses micro mass effect fields to "stasis" chunks of armor but requires a lot of power so it cant remain on for a whole mission.

I just lumped it in that category because I thought of Barrier first, honestly. You don't need to take biotic stuff to get it lol. It's the same thing, spread across all three power categories, Defense Matrix being the Tech version in case anyone needed to know.

But like mad said, it appears on other characters in ME3. James Vega being the primary one, who doesn't even have special armor AFAIK. He's just that damn tough. (Well, actually, he's wearing the N7 Defender Armor from the Gamestop preorder, but who cares amirite?)

Also I find it amusing that we both made up turian names with so many hard consonants. It just seems to fit them, even though most of the NPCs in the games don't have names like that.

OK, wow. I know everyone's fielding applications, and I can't accept everyone into game (unless I only get like 5 apps...), but a group does not NEED every member trained in Deception and Persuasion.

I accept the fault for this, because I assigned the skill lists to each class. (Though some of them are freaking short anyway.)

To blunt that particular blow, I have no freaking clue what skills you'd want to train instead, if there were even any left in your class lol.

EDIT: OK, After looking at the applications presented, I've realized two things.

A: Raising the number of skill trainings from base SWSE was not a great idea, especially after giving all classes Power Training for free.

B: Giving everyone free skill training in Activate Power is going to adjust damage output on all sides too high in initial levels, and removes some of the unique flavor of power-oriented classes, as opposed to highlighting it like I wanted to.

TO THAT END: I've reduced each class's skill training allotment by one, and removed free Activate Power training. Hopefully that'll be enough to make for more defined character roles in skills and powers.

This may be too much a step back, after all, it removes two skills from your repertoire. However, I'd like to start like this, with potentially too little power, and be able to add something back in to put us right rather than remove stuff in game that people might come to rely on. Does that make sense?

I'm also gonna put a disclaimer in the Campaign Info tab to warn people that rules might be a bit in flux as we figure out where correct balance lies.

Fine by me

Mark me down as interested.

@Camris: We're actually in "Recruiting" phase now, but I can't change the title, and everyone's already got this thread marked, so I figure I'll use it.

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A: Raising the number of skill trainings from base SWSE was not a great idea, especially after giving all classes Power Training for free.

B: Giving everyone free skill training in Activate Power is going to adjust damage output on all sides too high in initial levels, and removes some of the unique flavor of power-oriented classes, as opposed to highlighting it like I wanted to.

TO THAT END: I've reduced each class's skill training allotment by one, and removed free Activate Power training. Hopefully that'll be enough to make for more defined character roles in skills and powers.

This may be too much a step back, after all, it removes two skills from your repertoire. However, I'd like to start like this, with potentially too little power, and be able to add something back in to put us right rather than remove stuff in game that people might come to rely on. Does that make sense?

I don't know. I think taking away two skills is a little much. I think if you just made it that Activate Power was on the skill list but not all trained would fit perfectly. I think that Engineer is definitely more of a skillful class and should have 6+Int.

UltraFennec wrote:

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A: Raising the number of skill trainings from base SWSE was not a great idea, especially after giving all classes Power Training for free.

B: Giving everyone free skill training in Activate Power is going to adjust damage output on all sides too high in initial levels, and removes some of the unique flavor of power-oriented classes, as opposed to highlighting it like I wanted to.

TO THAT END: I've reduced each class's skill training allotment by one, and removed free Activate Power training. Hopefully that'll be enough to make for more defined character roles in skills and powers.

This may be too much a step back, after all, it removes two skills from your repertoire. However, I'd like to start like this, with potentially too little power, and be able to add something back in to put us right rather than remove stuff in game that people might come to rely on. Does that make sense?

I don't know. I think taking away two skills is a little much. I think if you just made it that Activate Power was on the skill list but not all trained would fit perfectly. I think that Engineer is definitely more of a skillful class and should have 6+Int.

Fair enough I suppose, though I had given most of the classes more skills than their equivalent SWSE classes got. HMMMM. I'll think about it some more.

EDIT: If I did go with Madclaw's suggestion, what classes do people think should be getting what amount of skills? Like, who gets 3+, 4+, 5+, 6+?

I think as follows:
+4 - Solider and Vanguard
+5 - Sentinel and Infiltrator
+6 - Engineer and Adept

The reason I think that +3 should be gotten rid of is it allows more skills to be added. In today's modern military soldiers are at least taught the basic of a multitude of skills; including first aid, orienteering, communication devices, squad tactics, survival skills, and others. Yes there are specializations, but some the trained only skills are skills that many of today's, and the future's, soldiers would learn.

I gave Infiltrator +5 because they are a skills based niche but didn't give them +6 because they are full BAB. Have to have some balance to the game.

Anyways that's just my 2 cp.

Madclaw's suggestions seem... broadly... reasonable to me (despite the fact that I am creating a Quarian Infiltrator ;-) )

I'm fine with loosing skills and as I said before I'm open to discussion on what skills to have so I can tool to more knowledge skills if that fits the bill.

Duala isn't realy built to lead as Duke is so I have no problem with palying a more supportive role.

As to the number of skill points, Madclaw's suggestions seem fine to me though I'd rather think the sentinel should be getting more skill points as he's the 'Jack-of-all-trades' class.

A note though, every class seems able to work computers and bypass doors in ME. I don't know if thats a point to think on. Food for thought?

True, but not all classes are good at it in Mass Effect...

Here's the basic sheet.

As to the number of skill points, Madclaw's suggestions seem fine to me though I'd rather think the sentinel should be getting more skill points as he's the 'Jack-of-all-trades' class.

I gave them +5 because they are a jack of all trades class, but the engineer and adept are more focused than it. Sentinel is a combo of those to classes and as such has 'access', fluff wise, to both power trees. I felt it's a bridge like infiltrator is. It's a niche class but is able to draw on both areas.

A note though, every class seems able to work computers and bypass doors in ME. I don't know if thats a point to think on. Food for thought?

I think this is in part to programs on the omni-tools. Where yes, every class can do it, mainly in part to the software present on the omni-tool but if the programs that are present on it can't get through certain security measures that is where a tech based class is going to pick up that slack and improvise.

Again just my 2 cp.

Just realized that I forgot to change half of the statblock. Oops.

At this point, I have to wonder: is anyone planning a Face character - someone who does serious diplomatizing/intimidating/information gathering, and is anyone planning a Pilot?

At this point, I have to wonder: is anyone planning a Face character - someone who does serious diplomatizing/intimidating/information gathering, and is anyone planning a Pilot?

I have persuasion and pilot. If UF decides to go with my suggestion I plan on taking deception. Will I have feats or talents devoted to piloting? Not sure yet. I may take one or two but not sure.

Hrm... I was considering a Face/Pilot, actually. Heh... Hrm...

Silak Korchik
Destiny - Force Points 5/5
Turian Soldier 1
Init+8; Perception +1
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Defenses: Reflex 14, Will 11, Fortitude 14
Hit Points 32; Threshold 14
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Spd 6 squares
Melee +1
Ranged +4
Base Attack +1 ; Grapple +1
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Abilities
STR: 11 DEX: 16 CON: 14: INT: 12 WIS: 12 CHA: 8
Talents: Battle Analysis, Weapon Specialization(Heavy Rifle)
Feats: Armor Proficiancy (All), Power Training, Weapon Proficiency (pistol, rifle, simple, heavy), Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus(heavy rifle)
Skills: Activate Power +1, Endurance +7, Initiative +8, Knowledge(tactics) +6, Knowledge(galactic lore) +6, Mechanics +6, Treat Injury +6
Combat Powers: Adrenaline Rush, Fortification, Marksman

Here's the fixed sheet.

I took deception since I figured it would be crucial for an undercover agent to pass for his cover. Hadn't planned on pilot. And I have the scoundrel talent that lets you make gather information checks with the use computer skill. My intent is to use SMGs and Sniper Rifles if that helps anyone with their own direction. I'm planning on being really tech and stealth heavy.

I am interested but don't have the books. Where can I find at least creation rules?
I played a long time ago so I'm sure to pick up anythings I had forgotten, I just need the base creation rules.

Ok, now that I can actually connect to this website again, some things.

Knowing what I know about the SAGA skill lists, we're likely to see some overlap in certain areas. The personal interaction skills, use computer, and mechanics are the most likely areas of this. I expect, however, that someone seriously invested in being a group "Face" will probably take feats to support that end, which means less combat oriented feats they're taking.

I'm...not as concerned as I was two days ago with skill overlap. But I do want everyone to be able to shine in a unique way, somehow. Preferably which ways those are would be worked out between you guys.

For ex, Shadow just said he's been looking at a dedicated Face+Pilot combo. That's cool, totally cool, especially given that nobody else seems interested in Pilot.

Given that so many people are going to have Deception and Persuasion and sundry other skills though, feat selection will be what sets each of you apart, I think.

On how much skill training to give each class...still not sure. SWSE has classes with 6+ skills, but no SWSE classes also automatically start with free powers either. This may not be the best balance metric though.

Last thought: the number of trained skills for each class is important because, while each of you need to be able to operate independently to a certain extent, you are a squad of soldiers, and need to be able to cover each other's weak points.

The way I see it, the more skills I give out, the less that play-style is enforced, and I've got a vested interest in enforcing it.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong though. Please give me some reasoning though, if you do.

On the topic of overlap...

Can non-biotic classes take the 'Force Sensitization' feat in order to be able to take biotic powers (possibly limiting it to one biotic power per time the feat is taken)?

For ex, Shadow just said he's been looking at a dedicated Face+Pilot combo. That's cool, totally cool, especially given that nobody else seems interested in Pilot.

I took pilot and mentioned being qualified on a number of craft. But hey if we end up with a dedicated pilot, awesome! Riding shotgun and being a co-pilot works for me. I'm kinda built for facing but having two faces is better than one.

Given that so many people are going to have Deception and Persuasion and sundry other skills though, feat selection will be what sets each of you apart, I think.

On how much skill training to give each class...still not sure. SWSE has classes with 6+ skills, but no SWSE classes also automatically start with free powers either. This may not be the best balance metric though.

Last thought: the number of trained skills for each class is important because, while each of you need to be able to operate independently to a certain extent, you are a squad of soldiers, and need to be able to cover each other's weak points.

The way I see it, the more skills I give out, the less that play-style is enforced, and I've got a vested interest in enforcing it.

Feel free to tell me I'm wrong though. Please give me some reasoning though, if you do.

I'm not sure it discourages cohesive and cooperative play so much. I think it will allow us to work together more and, forgive me for saying this, split off into sub teams and accomplish 2 goals at once. If we've got two or three people in the group that have use computer and we find that doing a multi-pronged attack on a base we'll be able to do that.

Further as you pointed out feat selection is going to be different. Also, abilities scores are going to be different, so over-all modifiers will vary from player to player. If it's to the point where we only have one person with a particular skill and they're unconscious, we're hosed. Skill overlapping isn't going to detract from the group it's going to provide more unit cohesion. We'll have a person do hack into a door and someone to help them with that. Yes, initially people's toes might get stepped on as we feel out where we belong. But that's part of any newly formed group.

Long story short, I don't think one extra skill point is really going to detract too much from play or party/game balance.

Unless I missed something, the same skill is used for tech and biotics. Splitting this would help diversify those two elements without limiting characters to one power outside the class(given appropriate feat + skill).

Here is the bare-bones of my application:

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Jenn'Turaal vas Sonderee

Destiny: Discovery Force Points 5/5

Male Quarian Infiltrator 1

Init: +9 Perception: +4

Languages: Galactic Standard (Common), Quarian, Turian, Salarian, Asari
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Defenses:
Reflex: 17, Will: 10, Fortitude: 12

Hit Points: 24 Threshold: 12
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Speed: 6

Melee:

Ranged:

Base Attack: +1 Grapple: +2
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Abilities:
STR: 13 DEX: 18 CON 10 INT: 16 WIS: 8 CHA: 8

Talents:
Personalised Modifications
Dastardly Strike

Feats:
1st level:
Armor Proficiency(Light)
Weapon Proficiency(Pistols, Rifles, Simple Weapons)
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot

Skills:
Acrobatics: +4
Activate Power: +8 (+3 Int + 5 Trained)
Climb: +1
Deception: -1
Endurance: +0
Gather Information: -1
Initiative: +9 (+4 Dex + 5 Trained)
Jump: +1
Knowledge(Technology): +8 (+3 Int + 5 Trained)
Mechanics: +8 (+3 Int + 5 Trained)
Perception: +4 (-1 Wis + 5 Trained)
Persuasion: -1
Pilot: +4
Ride: +4
Stealth: +9 (+4 Dex + 5 Trained)
Survival: -1
Swim: +1
Treat Injury: -1
Use Computer: +13 (+3 Int + 5 Trained + 5 Skill Focus)

Force Powers:
Overload
Incinerate
Energy Drain
Carnage/Marksman

Possessions:

Racial:
Fleet Mechanic:
All Quarians are part of the Migrant Fleet, and all Quarians must maintain the ships that make up those fleets. A Quarian may reroll any Mechanics check, but must accept the result of the reroll, even if it is worse.

Omni-Tool Wizard:
As many ship functions are regulated by VIs and other programs, Quarians have become adept programmers as well. Quarians trained in Use Computer receive Skill Focus (Use Computer) for free.

Inventive Repurposing:
Quarians salvage anything that can be used for maintaining the Migrant Fleet. Their skill in repurposing transfers over to enhancing already working equipment. Quarians receive the Tech Specialist feat for free at 1st level.

Hardsuit Necessity:
Approximately 300 years aboard starships has eroded Quarian immune systems, already weak to begin with, nearly to nonexistence, forcing the population to live their lives encased in exo-sealed hardsuits. A Quarian outside of their hardsuit takes a -10 penalty to Fort Defense vs. Diseases, reduced to -5 if on the homeworld of Rannoch.

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Experience:
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Appearance:
-------------------------
Background:
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@Hitomi: Splitting the skill up into two different skills is...well, it feels like splitting hairs. Even if I did split them up into "Biotics" and "Tech" skills, they'd operate exactly the same to minimize bookkeeping on my end, so splitting them becomes essentially unnecessary.

Do you still need the corebook, or did you find one?

@Madclaw: You are probably right, and I should be taking advantage of the opportunity rather than trying to make everything fit one mold.

Activate Power's still not gonna be free anymore though.

@Luke_Parry: Force Sensitivity is excised from the game. I...was pretty sure I had that in the conversion doc, but now I feel a need to check again. The only way you get Biotic powers is by taking levels in a Biotic class.

NOTE: I'm cool with people multiclassing into different classes and such. This is an RPG, not a video game after all. If you do gain levels in a Biotic class after 1st level, I will play up how exceedingly rare it is to develop actual Biotic proficiency post-adolescence, and we'll have to work out something for downtime for getting an amp installed in your brain-parts (unless you're Asari, since they don't need them).

So, do we have a final weigh in on skill points?

Yes I do need the core book, the wikis I found are devoid of usefull info.
My concept is an asari adept sniper named Fera Nosu.

Edit; I see what you mean for the powers.

Um, I thought Asari did need Amplifiers?

Nope. I'm not sure it's in the Codex until ME3, in which case it's a retcon, but Asari are now stated to have full conscious control of their nervous system as a result of their unique reproduction method. This also allows their "mind melding" trick to work.

Biotic amplifiers work by causing Eezo nodes to fire together, and in proper sequences to form workable mass effect fields of various types. Asari, by virtue of having nervous system control (and every one of them being biotic to a greater or lesser degree), don't need an amp to generate those fields, just enough potential and training.

(It seemed a bit weird to me until I read the Thessia codex entry. Apparently the Asari homeworld has Eezo freaking everywhere, including in freshwater supplies. It just naturally occurs in such high amounts they all got TK powers lol.)

Skill points...alright, let's go with the 4/5/6 suggestion.

4+=Soldier/Vanguard
5+=Infiltrator/Sentinel
6+=Adept/Engineer

Activate Power training is no longer free, but is on every class's skill list.

I'm pretty sure they do. Just because they are latently biotic they still need amps to be able to generate enough dark energy. There are a number of asari companies that develop biotic amps for asari. Also there's

Yeah, I did that mission too and I could swear somewhere someone mentions Asari not needing amps in the game...guh, no clue where I heard it, and as far as I can tell they've ignored any lore info that came from gear, but I'll find it again sometime.

I mean, it's really not important for our game anyway, since we won't be using bio-amps as discreet equipment (that whole thing about it being really dangerous to switch out amps being established in ME2. This also makes Jack a bit crazy, since she gets a new one if you buy her upgrade).

Amps are not required but they do amplify a biotics power, probably by running more energy through the eezo then an organic body can produce naturally. So most likely(according to the "science" of how eezo works) a biotic without an amp can lift a paperweight but not a person. The power of a mass effect field is proportional to the electricity flowing through the eezo(which is probably neutronium)so an organic body can produce some electricity but nowhere near as much as technology can.

edit first sentence is true even for humans. the timeline states that young individuals that were exposed to dust form eezo started showing odd powers which obviously didnt require amps or no one would have noticed anything odd.

If Asari don't need Amps, then it's definitely a retcon, as in ME1, Liara needed an Amp.

It's possible that Asari without an Amp are far more telekinetic than most other species without Amps, but they still need an Amplifier to do Jedi s&%% like hurl shipping crates and Krogan around.

Got a question for you, chief: If someone takes Skill Focus (Knowledge,) will you let it apply to any Knowledge skill rolls they make, even on the Knowledges they haven't specifically trained in?

I think it seems reasonable because it enables a Mordin Solus-type character: Making Untrained checks, you may get a +5 bonus, but you're still capped at Common Knowledge. I mean, Mordin is unquestionably an extremely intelligent guy, but I doubt he's Trained in Sociology; he just hasn't had enough time in his short life to have become a master layer and criminologist. So while he can probably answer broad questions and generalities about legal systems the galaxy over, he's not going to be able to answer questions relating to the minutiae of legal systems of social justice the way an experienced prosecutor, legislator, or sociologist can.

It also lets him be aces at the Knowledge skills he has trained (Galactic Lore, Life Sciences, Physical Sciences and Technology,) with only one feat, letting him conserve the rest for the fine art of hurting things and breaking folks; and of course, fixing ailments.

Also, something else you might want to change:

This is Mass Effect. Everybody wears armor. Even cute little untrained girls like Liara get to wear Light Armor.

I think you should give everybody Armor Proficiency (Light) and do away with Armor Proficiency (Medium), leaving everyone either starting with Armor Proficiency (Heavy) - the Soldier - or only having to spend one feat to get it.

For the armors classified as medium currently, you could just let them qualify as Light, or make them Heavy.

[edit]Personally, I'd just do away with Armor Proficiency feats altogether. It's armor! You wear it! It protects you from bullets! Not much more to it than that. And they're not looking to hire folks who can't handle themselves in firefights - that's why even Engineers start with rifle proficiency here.

Couple of things, guys.

1) Asari do use biotic amps. What they don't need it the biotic implants that humans need. Everyone who's biotic uses amps and needs them to increase the mass effect fields created by the biotic abilities. It was Kaiden's L2 biotic implants that gave him debilitating migranes.

2) Why ever would you do away with medium armor? In ME there were three kinds: Light, Medium, and Heavy. Soldiers being the only class able to get heavy armor. My fix on Armor would be thus: don't make people take feats to improve the armor they can wear, just start everyone at the max armor capable of their class. Soldier at heavy, Infiltrator and Vanguard at medium, Adept Engineer and Sentinel at light. This is also where the soldier makes up a little for the deficiency of skill points, being the best with armor while being the worst at skills.

3) While I agree with Shadow that taking a plain old Skill Focus (Knowledge) seems to fit well with what some characters can do, I've always played d20 system with Skill Focus as a feat for each individual type of knowledge. Taking a feat that can apply to 6+ skills (even very closely related) just seems like too much.

Just my two cents guys.

2: Because frankly, it's unnecessary to have three distinct levels of armor tracked and require their own g~!#!%n feat to use. That's what bothers me - you're requiring a feat, a very limited resource, for a character to use a completely passive piece of hardware. As written, you can't even wrap a ballistic vest around your chest without taking a ridiculous penalty to attack and any skill listed with an armor class penalty. Hell, my leather duster weighs more and would be more encumbering!

Also, this is a d20-based roleplaying game. Are you going to tell the person who winds up playing an engineer "no, you just can't equip that" if they decide they need to get their Heavy Armor on? This isn't a video game, that s!*+ won't fly.

3: Better too much than not enough, especially if someone wants to actually spend a Skill Focus on Knowledge. If it's just one, I'd never spend it, as a complete and utterly useless waste of a feat. If it applied to all Knowledge skills, though, it might be worth it.

I could see my way to offering Armor for everyone, though I assume we all know what the various advantages/disadvantages to wearing armor are in SAGA, right?

And...I had intended to give everyone at least one armor proficiency feat. Must have missed that while finishing the Doc. I'll correct that error momentarily.

Skill Focus is still going to require separate feats for different Knowledge types. Getting a +5 bonus to all Knowledge checks is a bit extreme IMO, and that's from an RP standpoint, not mechanically. Skill Focus represents an extensive specialization in a field. Mordin knows an awful lot, but he's not super-trained in every area. He's got a really high INT, and probably Skill Focus in the Sciences skills, but outside of that he's just a high level Engineer IMO. That gives him plenty of space to pick up feats for fixing things and a bit of murder-power, but he's really not actually much at hurting things outside of his powers.

OK, haven't seen anything happen for a few days, so I'm going to start looking over character applications and pick some people.

DON'T WORRY if you haven't put your app up in the thread yet, or wherever you sent it. It'll take me a bit to make final decisions, so you've got a while. Like, probably about two days awhile.

Sry I dont have a char to post and probably wont for while but maybe in a month or so if a slot opens I might be clear again. I have had some setbacks recently.

It's cool, dun worry about it.