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"Kirthfinder" Aviona PBP

Game Master Kirth Gersen

Playtest for the "Kirthfinder" rules.


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M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Jaegr "Knock Knock" wrote:
I think am done. Let me know if I missed anything or did anything wrong

Offhand, I don't see any real problems -- I'd recommend swapping out Survival for Profession (Mining) (which encompasses underground survival, basically) to fit your background, but other than that everything looks good.

I love your backstory, by the way -- not only do you provide a rationale for the nickname, but you also neatly tie yourself into the ongoing action. Bravo.


Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 50/42 (8 Temp) AC 26 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Jaegr "Knock Knock" wrote:
I think am done. Let me know if I missed anything or did anything wrong

Offhand, I don't see any real problems -- I'd recommend swapping out Survival for Profession (Mining) (which encompasses underground survival, basically) to fit your background, but other than that everything looks good.

I love your backstory, by the way -- not only do you provide a rationale for the nickname, but you also neatly tie yourself into the ongoing action. Bravo.

Good catch on the mining. I actually did a character sheet before doing it on here where I did have Mining, not sure where I forgot to change it.

Thanks!

Cheliax

Excellent, then. I'll have most of my character finished tomorrow.


Male Halfling Bard 4 (Minstrel)

Ok still working on this guy....

I am liking the idea of the slingstaff, the net, shortsword & shortbow

Do you assign skill points with the +3 for "class skills" just like PF, or something else...I did not see it on the skills section....

I picked a feat and am not sure I can qualify for it due to wis, let me know if I need to pick something else......


Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 50/42 (8 Temp) AC 26 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)

Kirth, one thing I overlooked and just thought about now is that the Mountain Dwarf is missing Darkvision. I assume that it is just an oversight. (I do see it on the hill dwarf.)

Thanks


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Jaegr "Knock Knock" wrote:

Kirth, one thing I overlooked and just thought about now is that the Mountain Dwarf is missing Darkvision. I assume that it is just an oversight. (I do see it on the hill dwarf.)

Races wrote:
Mountain Dwarves automatically have favored terrain (underground), with a +2 bonus. The darkvision normally provided by this favored terrain starts at 60 ft. range, rather than 20 ft.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Caspian Barefoot wrote:
Do you assign skill points with the +3 for "class skills" just like PF

Yes.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Caspian Barefoot wrote:
I picked a feat and am not sure I can qualify for it due to wis, let me know if I need to pick something else......

Your feat is listed as "Surefooted," which has no Wis prerequisite. Unless there's another one somewhere else?

You might want to consider the type of bard you want to play; the skald is a poet, rather than an entertainer, and is Int-based. With your Int of 11, you'll only be able to use 1st level spells, and the DCs will be terrible. On the other hand, a 17 Charisma makes for an excellent minstrel.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Races wrote:
Mountain Dwarves automatically have favored terrain (underground), with a +2 bonus. The darkvision normally provided by this favored terrain starts at 60 ft. range, rather than 20 ft.

So that means that underground in their favored terrain they have 60' darkvision but otherwise do not? Or does that mean they have 60' normal but 80' underground?


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Tangible Delusions wrote:
So that means that underground in their favored terrain they have 60' darkvision but otherwise do not? Or does that mean they have 60' normal but 80' underground?

Neither. Darkvision is an always-active "perk" of having an underground favored terrain -- it works even when you're not underground.

A human with a +2 underground favored terrain bonus has darkvision only to 20 ft., one with a +4 bonus has 40 ft., etc. For a mountain dwarf, the +2 bonus gives you 60 ft. instead of 20 ft. If you took levels in ranger and raised the bonus to +4, then you'd have a range of 80 ft. Etc.

I can understand the confusion, given the wording -- I'll go back and edit the master documents to spell this out more clearly. Thanks for the catch.

Cheliax

One more question (I am choosing a bloodline): Is possible to gain a winter wolf pup via Obtain Familiar and then take Improved Familiar at appropriate level? Idea is to essentially have only one familiar for story reasons, only not to have full access to its powers until the character takes appropriate feat.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
nightflier wrote:
One more question (I am choosing a bloodline): Is possible to gain a winter wolf pup via Obtain Familiar and then take Improved Familiar at appropriate level? Idea is to essentially have only one familiar for story reasons, only not to have full access to its powers until the character takes appropriate feat.

YES! As long as the mechanics match, I have no problem with changing fluff and story to match. In fact, this sort of thing is not only allowed, it's actively encouraged! Check this out:

SCENARIO 1 (Standard):
You take Obtain Familiar and pick a Tiny puppy (take a normal dog and apply the Young template, and we'd come up with whatever skill bonus he'd give you -- probably a boost to Perception, or even the scent ability). Later, you take Improved Familiar, dismiss the puppy, and get a winter wolf.

SCENARIO 2 (Reflavored): You take Obtain Familiar and adopt a newborn winter wolf. It has the same stats as a dog with the Young template, and its breath weapon hasn't developed enough to be damaging yet. The pup dotes on you, and you get the same benefit that a "normal" familiar would give you. When you gain Improved Familiar, we assume the wolf has finally hit his growth spurt. He starts eating a LOT, and gets really big, and before you know it his breath has gone from chilly to damaging.

Notice the mechanics are the same, which means we're totally OK. Scenario 2 has merely repackaged them into something that fits the story a LOT better.

Cheliax

That's exactly what I had in mind! Thanks, Kirth. Now, I at first I wanted to play some kind of Viking death shaman, or something similar. But as the character creation progresses, I am leaning to the Slav/Transilvanian theme. Can I rework Boreal bloodline a little to reflect that? I'm thinking of something like Russian Elric, coming from the depths of Siberia, or Caucasus mountains, with curved bastard sword and wolf at his side, dressed in black like Oprichniki of Ivan the Terrible, cursed by a dark deeds done years ago, or even recently. Alcoholic, with passion for Tarot cards (a nod to Amber hear), he think of himself as The Knight of Spades.

This is just an idea, and since I build my characters based on the background I need to know what you think before I proceed with the crunch. It would be useful to know more about humans in your world. Do the elves have some sort of Varingian guard, or something?


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
nightflier wrote:
Very cool character concepts.

Awesome! What the Kingdom of Aviona has is the King's Guard (like d'Artagnans Musketeers) -- they accept people irrespective of race or gender; the only requisite is a sort of manic devotion to outrageous acts of heroism. Immigrants from human lands -- no matter how far off -- are totally welcome, as long as they're willing to swear loyalty to the Elf King (in past campaign play, they've actively recruited adventurers from alternative prime material planes). Your guy would fit in beautifully! And yes, I have no problem with reasonable substitutions/reworking of bloodlines -- post the changes you want, and I'll either stamp them approved or recommend adjustments which we can then discuss.

Cheliax

I like your setting more and more... :) I really hope that we will reach 7th level, so that I can take Leadership feat and reenact that scene from Taltos novels when Vlad summons his little dragon... :)


Male Halfling Bard 4 (Minstrel)

Ok I am going minstrel!

I got the skills knocked out....

I had the scent feat, but my wis was too low so I changed it!

I am fairly happy with how he is coming along!

Lantern Lodge

Male Human Lvl 12 American Hero

Too many compliments to post here, Kirth, so these are simply what I'll go with.

Hope you don't mind, but I've downloaded all of this material and plan for a playtest of it with my players using some of my own materials. Its ingenious what you've done, in my opinion, and they say imitation is the best form of flattery. Needless to say, I look forward to imitating you.

Secondly, if a spot opens up in this PBP, let me know because I'd love to be a part of your 'Kirthfinder' worldset.

Finally, with everything I'm building, I hope I'll be able to do half as good as what I've seen come from you. If you ever have any tips, please let me know. Thanks again.

Signed by the best,
Ronin


Male Halfling Bard 4 (Minstrel)

I am thinking I have gotten the crunch right....

I do wonder if I have details correct would there be galdiators and a ludus in your world or at least performers who faked such events?

It seems that my background might need to be scrapped if that is not the case, if it is I need to do some more writing for the backstory.

Also any feed-back would be great! I also like what you have done with the races, classes etc.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Caspian Barefoot wrote:
I do wonder if I have details correct would there be galdiators and a ludus in your world or at least performers who faked such events?

The Kingdom of Aramni, off to the east of the main area of play, has gladiator combat in arenas as a major pastime (the big year-end matches are like the American Superbowl). Humans and half-orcs are the major races in Aramni, but there's no reason a halfling couldn't have been kept as a slave there. Worship of Asmodeus is the Aramni state religion, and is enforced by law in that place; liquor is illegal; secret police patrol the cities and major crossroads.

Aviona (the main place of action) is the polar opposite. The elves there sneer down their noses at "organized" fighting; dueling in the streets is legal in Aviona. Aviona is also polytheistic to the point where it's possible that no two people in a crowded room worship the same god. Etc.

A carefree halfling like Caspian would make a great escaped slave (maybe he was raised in Aramni, but stowed away on a ship to Aviona at some point).

P.S. If you're wearing a chain shirt, don't forget that you take armor penalties to Athletics, Acrobatics, Stealth, etc.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Severed Ronin wrote:

1. Hope you don't mind, but I've downloaded all of this material and plan for a playtest of it with my players using some of my own materials.

2. Secondly, if a spot opens up in this PBP, let me know because I'd love to be a part of your 'Kirthfinder' worldset.

1. Great! The more playtesting the better! Let me know what works for your group, and what doesn't.

2. Will keep you in mind if anyone drops out/is killed.


Male Halfling Bard 4 (Minstrel)

Exactly the information I needed. Also a halfling makes the best stow away, eating rats and whatnot during the journey.....and generally hiding in places no one else would fit....

Updated!


Male Human Battle Sorcerer 1

Nightflier's character here. This is just a beginning of a background. In this part I wanted to reflect something of Three Musketeers, but I'm writing a grittier "background of a background", to reflect his origins before he came to Aviona. I will incorporate your info on Asmodean church. Now, do you have access to old Planescape sourcebook Planes of Law? It has a nice peace on creation of multiverse, with Asmodeus and his sister as protagonist. If you are familiar with that creation story, I may incorporate it a bit in my background, and some stuff about Order of the Dragon as well.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Vanya Volkov wrote:

1. I will incorporate your info on Asmodean church.

2. Now, do you have access to old Planescape sourcebook Planes of Law? It has a nice peace on creation of multiverse, with Asmodeus and his sister as protagonist. If you are familiar with that creation story, I may incorporate it a bit in my background, and some stuff about Order of the Dragon as well.

1. Possibly not relevant, if he went from wherever he's from directly to Aviona -- unless of course you want him to be specifically from Aramni, rather than from some indeterminate "far-off land."

2. No; never had too much interest. Our cosmology is fairly loose, and owes as much to Roger Zelazny and Robert Asprin as it does to Gary Gygax.

Other campaign-specific stuff as relates to your background story:

The elves in Aviona are by nature chaotic. There's no rhyme or reason to the types of blades you see among guardsmen -- one of the offworld recruits openly carries a Morganti sword (possession of which is illegal), and somehow gets away with it! "Regulation blade" is therefore an oxymoron for them.

Regarding special assignments: the existence of a "Special Assignments Roster" for the King's Guard is a well-established feature in ongoing campaign play, allowing us to take a break from swashbuckling and play James Bond-type adventures instead. If you want to be on that list, expect adventures with a lot more investigation and a lot less swashbuckling, which means that all players need to come up with a consensus (there are players who are very unhappy with that type of game).

One other possibility I'd put out there, for a "doom and gloom" character such as yours, is the existence of the former Chancellor's Battalion. The Chancellor Palamis (analogous to Cardinal Richelieu in Dumas' works) was responsible for a lot of political maneuvering; he had his own battalion of humorless guardsmen, many of whom were involved in black ops, that had an exceptionally bitter rivalry with the King's Guard. It also unfortunately turned out that Palamis was a secret demon worshipper; when he was unmasked and killed, the members of his battalion were either forcibly retired or rolled into the police force. You could be one of them, if you wanted -- it gives you the option of having a lot of secrets that you maybe don't want found out.


I'll have my finished profile up tonight, BTW. Took me a little longer to get through the rules than I thought it would; busy weekend.

I'm digging this character, though. I don't normally play low-strength characters so it'll be a fun switch.

Cheliax

Kirth, I'm gonna go with whatever direction suits your game best. That's regarding current state of affairs, of course. I am writing his background before coming to Aviona. I think that I'll be finished tonight, including crunch. I am looking forward to your full review of my character.


Crap. Missed this. That'll learn me for not being online much.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Dazylar wrote:
Crap. Missed this. That'll learn me for not being online much.

TOZ is running a "Kirthfinder" PBP game as well -- check out the "Gamer Connection" forum.


Male Wood Elf 1

Downrightamazed here, this is Kelsin. Still expanding fluff, what I have is just an outline, but he's getting solid...


male Hobgoblin (Elven lineage) 4th (2nd level monk, 1st level goblin paragon, 1st level worghest)

Kirth-

My background is flexible. It can be changed to suit whatever is needed. I can even swap races if hobgoblin is going to be a problem.


Male Halfling Bard 4 (Minstrel)

I think I am ready!


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Kelsin Illstar wrote:
Downrightamazed here, this is Kelsin. Still expanding fluff, what I have is just an outline, but he's getting solid...

Please read the houserules "races" document. Specifically, you're missing a number of racial features, and your fluff is at odds with the description given -- as a wood elf, it's assumed you're not "from civilization" to begin with. Wood Elves are restricted to the frontier east of the Estren River -- much like dwarves, they're not found all over. Imagine you're from one of the Iroquois nations west of the Hudson during the American colonial period.

P.S., 5'8" is very tall for a wood elf -- we go by 1e standards, not PF ones.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Wyvurn wrote:
My background is flexible. It can be changed to suit whatever is needed. I can even swap races if hobgoblin is going to be a problem.

Looks very good. Obviously you have read all the relevant houserules; I see no errors at all, offhand. Your background is loose enough that it fits nicely. Being a part-elf hobgoblin means you're a part of society if you want to be, although people will discriminate against you both for your ugliness and your goblin blood. Too bad for them!


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Caspian Barefoot wrote:
I think I am ready!

Love your background! "the worst thing being forced to sing a song titled "half a man" nude in front of guests" -- you had a very corrupt master -- Aramni has a VERY strict nudity taboo, and women wear headscarves. Forced nudity is therefore one of the most horrid punishments they can imagine.

Again, this is the exact opposite of the elves, who can't seem to grasp the "human" concept of body modesty -- they wear clothing for fashion, effect, and status, not necessarily for concealment.


Male Wood Elf 1
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Kelsin Illstar wrote:
Downrightamazed here, this is Kelsin. Still expanding fluff, what I have is just an outline, but he's getting solid...

Please read the houserules "races" document. Specifically, you're missing a number of racial features, and your fluff is at odds with the description given -- as a wood elf, it's assumed you're not "from civilization" to begin with. Wood Elves are restricted to the frontier east of the Estren River -- much like dwarves, they're not found all over. Imagine you're from one of the Iroquois nations west of the Hudson during the American colonial period.

P.S., 5'8" is very tall for a wood elf -- we go by 1e standards, not PF ones.

Ach, gotcha, pardon the oversights. I had read it over but didn't include these bits. Correcting now...


Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 50/42 (8 Temp) AC 26 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Wyvurn wrote:
My background is flexible. It can be changed to suit whatever is needed. I can even swap races if hobgoblin is going to be a problem.
Looks very good. Obviously you have read all the relevant houserules; I see no errors at all, offhand. Your background is loose enough that it fits nicely. Being a part-elf hobgoblin means you're a part of society if you want to be, although people will discriminate against you both for your ugliness and your goblin blood. Too bad for them!

So I assume Hobgoblin is considered uncivilized humanoid for the favored enemy list, so is he half civilized? :)

Actually what counts as uncivilized? I assume it isn't what a Dverge would consider uncivilized!


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Jaegr "Knock Knock wrote:
So I assume Hobgoblin is considered uncivilized humanoid for the favored enemy list, so is he half civilized?

Good question! For a hobgoblin, if he favors his elf parentage and joins society, he'd be "civilized." If he favors his goblin blood and lurks in the forests and mountains waylaying innocents, he'd be "uncivilized." So in his case, his habits and liferstyle, rather than his race, are the determining factors.

Ditto for other favored enemies. When in doubt, if they have towns/cities/industry/large-scale agriculture, consider them "civilized."


Male Wood Elf 1

Changed fluff around, added some racial bits I hadn't had before, fleshed out animal companion.

If there are still crunch things I'm missing (besides mundane gear, though I won't be adding much there. Druid and all, you know...), please lemme know specifically so I can get 'em. I think I've got it all.

Re-reading your campaign journal thread for flavor. Still can't believe you got all that down, it's awesome!


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3

Important question:

In my home game, we've voted in a couple of adjustments intended to "even out" stats a bit. Specifically:

  • Ranged attacks use Wis modifier, rather than Dex modifier;
  • Will saves use Cha modifier, rather than Wis modifier;
  • Iron Will (et al.) provide the Good saving throw progression for any class that has a poor progression in that save.

    A lot of people here have dumped Cha into the Abyss (as almost everyone in the world almost always does), so the second proposed rule impacts that a bit. The question is, would people have completely done their characters differently, with those rules in place? If not, and no one objects, we can use them here, too. If so, I'd say let's keep them out for now. Let me repeat, though, that the current "official" Kirthfinder in-person home game uses them.


  • M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    Kelsin Illstar wrote:
    Re-reading your campaign journal thread for flavor. Still can't believe you got all that down, it's awesome!

    "All that"? I'm a year and a half behind! Bad job, Kirth!


    Male Wood Elf 1
    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Kelsin Illstar wrote:
    Re-reading your campaign journal thread for flavor. Still can't believe you got all that down, it's awesome!
    "All that"? I'm a year and a half behind! Bad job, Kirth!

    Oh! Well see, now, you shouldn't have told me that. Slacker. ;-)


    Male Wood Elf 1
    Kirth Gersen wrote:

    Important question:

    In my home game, we've voted in a couple of adjustments intended to "even out" stats a bit. Specifically:

  • Ranged attacks use Wis modifier, rather than Dex modifier;
  • Will saves use Cha modifier, rather than Wis modifier;
  • Iron Will (et al.) provide the Good saving throw progression for any class that has a poor progression in that save.

    A lot of people here have dumped Cha into the Abyss (as almost everyone in the world almost always does), so the second proposed rule impacts that a bit. The question is, would people have completely done their characters differently, with those rules in place? If not, and no one objects, we can use them here, too. If so, I'd say let's keep them out for now. Let me repeat, though, that the current "official" Kirthfinder in-person home game uses them.

  • Ranged attacks using WIS would help me, but in general I'm fine leaving them out. Since I lose 2 on CHA anyway having Will use CHA would slay me.


    Male Human Battle Sorcerer 1

    Oprichnik:

    Boris Volkov became Veliki Voivoda – the Grand Duke – of Morvia at tender age of five, when his father, Bogdan, died from the hunting accident. There were some who wondered how did mighty Bogdan, blessed by the Old Man of the Forest and Shepherd of Wolves managed to die in the very woods he hunted almost every day, but they kept silence. Who is to say that he did not angered some vila or lesci, or some other faerie creature. Or perhaps some Hag cursed him. Things like that happen, everybody knows. And so, Boris became the Grand Duke and his mother, priestess of Vesna, goddes of springs, rivers and everything that grows, his regent.

    Soon the men in scarlet came. They wore scarlet robes and scarlet skullcaps and they have said that they bring blessings of Great Lord Asmodeus and that they would wish to share that blessing with everyone in Morvia. They offer riches of civilization, silk and spices and gold. Boris' mother refused their advances, sensing the evil in silken robes, but the boyars, high nobility of the realm, listened what the men in scarlet had to offer – and they waited for their opportunity. One night, Boris' mother jumped from the highest tower of Castle Volkov. Or so they say. And Boris became not just Grand Duke but orphan as well. It was before his sixth nameday.

    Tripartite realm of Morvia was soon overrun with Church of Asmodeus. Forest, Mountain and Sea were just riches to be plundered for them. Boyars became petty tyrants, killing peasants and reaping the countryside of everything that wasn't nailed down. And Boris watched everything from his decreipt castle, powerless.

    One time, a man dressed in faded black visited the castle citchens. He talked with what servants have remained and told them the storries of old gods and goddesses, of Perun and Volos, of Vesna and Morana, the goddess of death. And young Boris listened. And waited.

    Soon came his fifteenth naming day and he became a man. He waited for all the boyars to get drunk and then he went to his mother's grave. He cut his palm and let the earth soak the blood – and he called the names he heard from the storyteller. And they came. Called by the blood of son on his mother's grave, first came Baba Yaga, Queen of Witches; then came Chuma, she who brings diseases; after her Baba Roga, with an iron horn growing from her forhead. Others came – old female demons and banished goddesses called by an unwitting sacrifice. And the last came Morana. Morana, Lady of the Crows, silent and beautyful goddess of death. She came, angered by the plight of her people, and she offered a bargain: Boris will become her blade in the mortal world, and she will make men fear him. She will give him mighty blade and teach him spells to slay even most powerful of scarlet men. And he accepted. He forged the first curved sword with serrated back that will become mark of Oprichniki, and the demons that surve the Queen of Crows gave him gifts. Soon, Morvia ran with scarlet blood... And Boris the Butcher became Veliki Voivoda in truth.

    Oprichniki are trusted agents, secret police and enforcers of Grand Duke's will. They dress in black and their symbol is wolf's skull, to represent both their mission to sniff out treason and Duke's enemies, and their patron goddess, Morana.
    Upon initiation, oprichnik forges a strange-looking blade. Essentially a basket-hilted bastard sword with slightly curved blade, serrated on the back, this weapon can be used only singlehandedly. This sword is the soul of an oprichnik and his bond with witches and hags who serve Morana.

    You are an oprichnik, servant of the Grand Duke of Morvia, and addopted child of Morana, the goddess of death.

    Class Skill: You gain 1 rank per class level in Bluff (Intimidation) without spending any skill points.
    Bonus Spells: mage armor (1st), resist energy (3rd), fly (5th), fear (7th), wall of fire (9th), cloudkill (11th), summon monster VII (13th), discern location (15th), wish (17th).
    Bonus Feats: Combat Casting, Diehard, Iron Will, Improved Familiar (winter wolf), Skill Focus (Endurance), Toughness.
    Bloodline Arcana:
    Eldritch Blast: Your eldritch blast is a ray of frost; it deals cold damage.

    Bloodline Powers:
    Gift of Baba Yaga – Arcane Bond: You gain the abbility to summon a familiar.
    Gift of Chuma - Weapon Training (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, you gain Martial proficiency with any one ranged weapon of your choice (typically a longbow). At 5th level you gain exotic weapon proficiency with the composite longbow as well.
    Gift of Baba Roga - At 9th level, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to your Strength. This bonus increases to +4 at 13th level, and again to +6 at 17th level.
    Gift of Morana - Starting at 15th level, you can transform yourself into a murder of crows, gaining a fly speed of 40 ft. with good maneuverability. You can cease or resume flight as a free action and transform back and forth into the crowds. Murder consists of 1 crow per your hp.

    Kirht, this is a broad idea for a Battlesorcerer bloodline that I have done for my character. These are only broad strokes, left like that for your interpretation. The bloodline needs more work, but I was hesitant to do anything more. If you think that something can be done with this, than I'll be thrilled. If not, I'll probably go with either Boreal or Arcane bloodline.


    male Hobgoblin (Elven lineage) 4th (2nd level monk, 1st level goblin paragon, 1st level worghest)
    Kirth Gersen wrote:

    Important question:

    In my home game, we've voted in a couple of adjustments intended to "even out" stats a bit. Specifically:

  • Ranged attacks use Wis modifier, rather than Dex modifier;
  • Will saves use Cha modifier, rather than Wis modifier;
  • Iron Will (et al.) provide the Good saving throw progression for any class that has a poor progression in that save.

    A lot of people here have dumped Cha into the Abyss (as almost everyone in the world almost always does), so the second proposed rule impacts that a bit. The question is, would people have completely done their characters differently, with those rules in place? If not, and no one objects, we can use them here, too. If so, I'd say let's keep them out for now. Let me repeat, though, that the current "official" Kirthfinder in-person home game uses them.

  • It's your call. Yes, I would have swapped things up a bit, probably up Cha to no penalty and stuck with Zen Warrior Sutra, but it's not a really a big deal to me either way.

    Wyvurn would does stick to his elven heritage story and would consider himself civilized, although he's more like Caine wandering the earth right now.


    Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 50/42 (8 Temp) AC 26 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)
    Kirth Gersen wrote:

    Important question:

    In my home game, we've voted in a couple of adjustments intended to "even out" stats a bit. Specifically:

  • Ranged attacks use Wis modifier, rather than Dex modifier;
  • Will saves use Cha modifier, rather than Wis modifier;
  • Iron Will (et al.) provide the Good saving throw progression for any class that has a poor progression in that save.

  • I'm fine with all of those. I really like the Wis for Ranged attacks (And I think I may do that for my home game after I finish running Crimson throne).

    I had dabbled with the idea of having a high Wisdom for a long term plan, but I had decided against it mainly because of RP reasons but also because I hate to have that low of a score in any stat.

    If anything, having Will Saves go off Cha almost makes me want to go back with my original plan of a low Cha! :)


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    Vanya Volkov wrote:
    this is a broad idea for a Battle sorcerer bloodline that I have done for my character.

    Let me congratulate you -- I have seldom seen mechanics so nicely wedded to the consistent theme provided by the background writeup you did. With this description, too, we could reasonably draft "Morvia" as the far northeastern province of Aramni, recently conquered by that kingdom, and thereby adopt it flawlessly into the campaign setting.

    Diehard has been rolled into the Endurance skill and so will need to be replaced (I'd recommend Great Fortitude), and we'll swap Iron Will for Improved Iron Will if the optional "Iron Will gives you the good Will save progression" rule passes, but aside from those minor nitpicks, your "specialty" bloodline is hereby approved.


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3

    Vote regarding optional rules:

    In favor - 1 (Jaegr)
    Opposed - 1 (Kelsin)
    Abstaining - 1 (Wyvurn)

    Hopefully the remaining players will provide a tie-breaker...


    Male Halfling Bard 4 (Minstrel)

    #1 Ouch, that hurt
    #2 Yes, oh baby come to papa

    means abstaining since one will benefit my PC and the other will hinder him...........

    "Cha is not a dump stat"sings the bard

    Cheliax

    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Vanya Volkov wrote:
    this is a broad idea for a Battle sorcerer bloodline that I have done for my character.

    Let me congratulate you -- I have seldom seen mechanics so nicely wedded to the consistent theme provided by the background writeup you did. With this description, too, we could reasonably draft "Morvia" as the far northeastern province of Aramni, recently conquered by that kingdom, and thereby adopt it flawlessly into the campaign setting.

    Diehard has been rolled into the Endurance skill and so will need to be replaced (I'd recommend Great Fortitude), and we'll swap Iron Will for Improved Iron Will if the optional "Iron Will gives you the good Will save progression" rule passes, but aside from those minor nitpicks, your "specialty" bloodline is hereby approved.

    Than you, Kirth. Being DM myself, I strive to create characters which are consistent with the game world and interesting to play. I think that Vanya will escape from the dreary life of oprichnik and that is the main reason why he would eventually come to the Elf Kingdom. Not, the bloodline is not finished yet. There are some things that need to be fleshed out. Since my workload recently doubled, I am hoping to finish the character completely over the weekend, although he is just about ready to play, since most of remaining bloodline abilities won't come into play till higher levels.

    Now, about proposed changes, I am against first one, not just because it will hurt my character, but because I just can not imagine any tie between Wisdom and using a long bow or crossbow. The other two are fine. Perhaps you could balance things more by using some type of traits?


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    nightflier wrote:
    Now, about proposed changes, I am against first one, not just because it will hurt my character, but because I just can not imagine any tie between Wisdom and using a long bow or crossbow.

    I'm going by the words of Wyatt Earp, who I assume knew more about projectile weapons in close-range, small-scale deadly combat than Monte Cook does.

    Wyatt Earp wrote:
    The most important lesson I learned from those proficient gunfighters was the the winner of a gunplay usually was the man who took his time. The second was that, if I hoped to live long on the frontier, I would shun flashy trick-shooting -- grandstand play -- as I would poison.

    You'll note a similar conversation between Gene Hackman and the biographer in the moview Unforgiven. And another comment from the net:

    "As someone who has spent his life around guns, the problem isn't the speed, it is the nerves. You see, when you are standing there staring at a man that could quite likely kill you it makes you more than a little nervous, and thus more likely to pull the trigger instead of squeeze. If you just jerk on the trigger like that it is more likely to go wild, and if you are nervous and trying for max speed you might even squeeze too early and have the shot go low."

    I'm also going by personal experience -- I'm agile as hell, but I can't shoot worth a damn.

    Earp also hammered on about how important constant practice is, vs. native talent, which to me says Wisdom vs. Dexterity.

    ---

    That said, I'd add a ranged feat that works the same as Weapon Finesse, except it would sub Dex for Wis with ranged weapons.


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3

    Current vote regarding new stat modifiers:

    In favor - 1 (David/Jaegr)
    Opposed - 2 (Amazed/Kelsin, nightflier/Vanya)
    Abstaining - 2 (Chainsaw/Wyvurn, Freddy/Caspian)

    Motion fails; changes to stats are not approved for the playtest. No one seemed to have an issue with a slight upgrade to Iron Will, et al., so that change is assumed to pass. To clarify: you can take Iron Will (or Great Fortitude, or Lightning Reflexes) to change a poor saving throw progression in one class to the Good progression for that save. You can take another feat (Improved Iron Will, etc.) to grant an additional +2 and one free reroll/day.

    Any other recommended changes/errata can be dealt with similarly; I'm willing to factor in some variance from the home game playtesting, when evaluating the results of this one.

    As soon as all characters are finalized (hopefully by the end of the weekend), we can get started playing!

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