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"Kirthfinder" Aviona PBP

Game Master Kirth Gersen

Playtest for the "Kirthfinder" rules.


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M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3

I've resisted for years, but I'm thinking about DMing a play-by-post game, if sufficient interest exists. I have only two pre-existing conditions:

1. I'd like to use the house rules posted HERE, ones that I refer to as the Superior Hybrid Interactive Tabletop game (better known by its acronym), and which others have dubbed "Kirthfinder." These rules are similar to pure Pathfinder, but classes (especially marial ones) and feats have been rewritten, and combat rules are a bit different (half-move and full attack are compatible, for example, and spellcasting in melee is more difficult).

2. If you're going to lose interest and stop playing, that's OK, but have the decency to let me know in advance. Anyone who just randomly drops out of the game with no explanation will incur my lasting animosity. So please do not offhandedly say "Why not?" on a lark, unless you're genuinely intent on going through with it. I'd rather have 0 interested players (and know it in advance) and cancel up front, than to have a dozen people who never show up after their first post.

Other idiosyncrasies: I don't use battlemats. If you want to be in a certain place vis-a-vis others, and you can reasonably move there, you can do so. Also, play is open-ended in that players can assume that reasonable surroundings exist. If you're in a tavern and want to assume there's a wagon-wheel chandelier overhead (and I haven't said otherwise), then it is so. Likewise, if you want to flee an encounter and go back to town to look for reinforcements or oil or whatever (and the group agrees), then that's legitimate if a means of escape exist.

Qadira

M

Heya Kirth, I can't believe this has no posts in it yet. However, you will get far more response if it goes into the Gamer Connection threads.

I would take you up on your offer myself, but I'm DMing 2 Pathfinder games already and that is my limit. So to be fair on my players, I will pass. I will however be watching with great interest as your game unfolds, since I've read your rules and we've had a few "discussions" about game balance on the boards (hehe).

Best of luck to you.

Cheers


Wrath is right, post in the Gamer Connection area and you will get plenty of attention from people who didn't make the cut on Barcas' recruitment thread.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3

OK, thanks, guys!


M somewhat akin to a kender Y / MA

Ability score rolls
4d6 &#8658; (1, 4, 3, 4) = 12
4d6 &#8658; (5, 5, 4, 5) = 19
4d6 &#8658; (3, 6, 4, 4) = 17
4d6 &#8658; (6, 2, 4, 3) = 15
4d6 &#8658; (3, 3, 1, 2) = 9
4d6 &#8658; (3, 2, 6, 2) = 13

"fixed" scores
11
15
14
13
8
11


Okay then, picking up where I left off. So far I've got a Wood Elf druid build going here. Scores looking like this:
STR - 9
CON - 12
DEX - 12+2=14
WIS - 14+2=16
INT - 8
CHA - 8-2=6

Right now eyeballing Nature Warden or Ashvawg Tamer for my Initiation. I'll take a big animal companion to counterbalance my puny strength and help make people not want to talk to me. Probably a tiger or bear.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3

OK! For those participating:

1. Over the weekend, go ahead and create aliases for your (1st level) PCs and post their stats (show math as applicable) in the profiles.

2. Read the first couple of pages of the Campaign log I posted, to get a feel for the setting.

3. Cope up with a brief backstory to fit yourself into the setting.

When everyone is up to that point, we'll be ready to go!

Cheliax

Okay, these are my stats:

9
14
15
9
13
12

This doesn't feel like either paladin or ranger to me. I can see several other characters: an arrogant elven wizard, with low Charisma and Wisdom; beautiful sorceress or half-orc favored soul, perhaps. I'm gonna check out the classes you need playtested again, and then I'll created a profile.


Quick Question Kirth, to make sure I have it all right.

Looking at Heavy Pick, and as an exotic weapon it says

Exotic: One handed melee, 1d8/x4, feat (Crushing Strike).

What is Crushing Strike? And I assume if I use the Heavy Pick as one handed (say with a shield or two weapons) it no longer qualifies for two-handed abilities (Power attack 1.5 damage or furious focus, etc) but I could still use it two handed for those things.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Tangible Delusions wrote:

1. What is Crushing Strike?

2. And I assume if I use the Heavy Pick as one handed (say with a shield or two weapons) it no longer qualifies for two-handed abilities (Power attack 1.5 damage or furious focus, etc) but I could still use it two handed for those things.

1. Oops... that should read "Crushing Blow" -- it's a combat feat (see Feats document). Those with the Exotic level of proficiency with the heavy pick automatically get the effects of that feat when using a heavy pick (see intro to Weapons document, and the blurb after "feat"). This supersedes the normal feat prerequisites.

2. Correct in all respects.

Osirion

Male Bullish

Sounds interesting, but I've yet to find time to read and digest the alternate rules. Maybe this will spur me on to get on with it.

I'll point Dazylar at this thread; he likes what your group's done with the ranger.


Ok, a couple more questions:

1. What does Dazing Strike do (say for Great Hammer) Don't see it in the feats list.

2. For 1st level fighter you can choose Fighter feat or Combat, is that true anytime you get a fighter feat or only first level is it either one?

3. And for character creation, average starting wealth?

4. Does the dwarven favored enemy/terrain go up with level like Rangers, or only if you have Ranger as a class?


4d6 ⇒ (5, 4, 3, 2) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (2, 4, 6, 2) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 2, 3) = 9
4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 4, 4) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 3, 6) = 11
4d6 ⇒ (1, 1, 4, 3) = 9

That is a 12, 12, 6, 12, 10, and 8

That is pretty pitiful. I'm not sure if it qualifies for going on to fail as an adventurer per your house rules, so let me know if this can be scrapped and re-rolled.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
David James wrote:

Ok, a couple more questions:

1. What does Dazing Strike do (say for Great Hammer) Don't see it in the feats list.

2. For 1st level fighter you can choose Fighter feat or Combat, is that true anytime you get a fighter feat or only first level is it either one?

3. And for character creation, average starting wealth?

4. Does the dwarven favored enemy/terrain go up with level like Rangers, or only if you have Ranger as a class?

1. Thanks! Another erratum -- that should read "Staggering Strike" (see Strike feats).

2. A 1st level fighter can choose either a bonus feat or a fighter talent. No bonus feats (2nd, 4th, etc.) can ever be exchanged for talents.

3. I don't track wealth all that carefully. I'll look at your equipment and see if it generally matches your background, and if it's more or less appropriate for a 1st level character.

4. They don't automatically scale unless so noted, so in the case of a mountain dwarf, the bonuses would stay at +2 (unless improved by taking ranger class levels, for example).


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Chainsaw wrote:

That is a 12, 12, 6, 12, 10, and 8

That is pretty pitiful. I'm not sure if it qualifies for going on to fail as an adventurer per your house rules, so let me know if this can be scrapped and re-rolled.

Total bonus is +1 +1 +1 -2 +1 -1 = +1, so you're right on the cusp. In the interest of saying "thanks" for being willing to playtest, go ahead and roll stats for that guy's brother or something, and see where that puts you!


Male Halfling Bard 4 (Minstrel)

Kenderkin here, this is my character I am working up.....

Had a question on bards, spells known says 4 0th, and 2 1st of players choice plus 1 common bard spell(SO WHAT WOULD THAT BE?)


male Hobgoblin (Elven lineage) 4th (2nd level monk, 1st level goblin paragon, 1st level worghest)

4d6 ⇒ (3, 4, 3, 2) = 12
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 4, 5) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (3, 1, 6, 3) = 13
4d6 ⇒ (2, 5, 2, 6) = 15
4d6 ⇒ (1, 4, 5, 4) = 14
4d6 ⇒ (4, 1, 4, 3) = 12

Chainsaw here. Thanks for the re-roll. This array gives me: 10, 13, 12, 13, 13, 11.

I'll get things worked up and all the info will be in the profile. Reading the campaign background now. I think it was already brought up in one of the threads, but are using traits?


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Wyvurn wrote:
I'll get things worked up and all the info will be in the profile. Reading the campaign background now. I think it was already brought up in one of the threads, but are using traits?

No, but I doubt if you'll need them. If you really want them, though, I'm willing to let you trade your 1st level feat for 2 traits.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Caspian Barefoot wrote:
Had a question on bards, spells known says 4 0th, and 2 1st of players choice plus 1 common bard spell(SO WHAT WOULD THAT BE?)

Page 4, near the bottom of the 1st column, under "bonus spells." No need to shout.

P.S. Where did you get 10 hp? I calculate 8, or 9 if you put your favored class bonus into hp.


Male Halfling Bard 4 (Minstrel)
Kirth Gersen wrote:
Caspian Barefoot wrote:
Had a question on bards, spells known says 4 0th, and 2 1st of players choice plus 1 common bard spell(SO WHAT WOULD THAT BE?)

Page 4, near the bottom of the 1st column, under "bonus spells." No need to shout.

P.S. Where did you get 10 hp? I calculate 8, or 9 if you put your favored class bonus into hp.

I have a long way to go to get this one finished, I will finish him eventually......

Yeah checking the crunch is my least favorite part....

Cheliax

I'm looking at ranger again. If I take ranger lore at 1st level and choose animal companion, would I have to wait till 3rd level to actually get it?


Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 31/42 (5 Temp) AC 27 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)

Here is my character, in progress.

I put my low of 9 on wis to balance out my stats. I originally was thinking of going for a higher wis as part of my background idea but then the cha would be 7 and reading through your write up of the campaign I didn't want to have that 7 hurt. I know they are "gruff" but would that be a little too gruff?


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Jaeger "Knock Knock" wrote:
Here is my character, in progress.

Woah! "Appropriate for a 1st level character" doesn't mean "decked out in magic items." Quite the opposite! If people are going to totally abuse me not tracking wealth, with reluctance I'll have to start being a CPA about it. How about something within the bounds of a possible result for 1st level gold?


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
nightflier wrote:
I'm looking at ranger again. If I take ranger lore at 1st level and choose animal companion, would I have to wait till 3rd level to actually get it?

Close: it would kick in at 4th (4 - 3 = 1).


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Jaeger "Knock Knock" wrote:
reading through your write up of the campaign I didn't want to have that 7 hurt. I know they are "gruff" but would that be a little too gruff?

Smart thinking! And, yes, a 7 Cha would hurt a lot -- but that's not to say you should immediately reject it. You could play it up, instead, emphasizing that you're from a totally insular culture that has no interaction with outsiders and can't really function among them.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Caspian Barefoot wrote:
Yeah checking the crunch is my least favorite part....

That may be a snag, insofar as the purpose of a playtest for new rules is to make sure that the crunch works. For a guy with no interest in the crunch, that would seem like the last PBP in the world that you'd ever want to get involved in.

Cheliax

How about orc ranger with Charisma 7 or perhaps lower, with appropriate feat that would allow him to be intimidating? I was thinking ranger of mercenary variety.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
nightflier wrote:
How about orc ranger with Charisma 7 or perhaps lower, with appropriate feat that would allow him to be intimidating? I was thinking ranger of mercenary variety.

I certainly wouldn't ban it or anything, but this text from the orc race description should be kept in mind:

Races wrote:
Orcs are “monsters” in all civilized lands, where they are killed on sight.

Let the buyer beware.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3

P.S. This thread is convincing me beyond the shadow of a doubt that all of my misgivings about Charisma being a B.S. stat (i.e., auto-dump for everyone in the world except bards and sorcerers) are entirely correct. I'm still not entirely sure what to do about it (tying Will saves to Cha modifier, and then having ranged attacks governed by Wis was a possibility). Suggestions are welcome.

Qadira

M

Take a leaf from the dnd computer games Kirth. In a society where bartering over prices is the norm, make people with low charismas pay more gold for everything. Say, 5% per point below ten. I bet that stops stat dumping hehe.

I think world building goes a long way to preventing it as well, but that takes time in playing in a GM's game world to get players to realise that. The guys in my RoTRL PbP are discovering that they don't always have the "face" with them when they need to be diplomatic, and it may well hurt if their stats are too low.

Hope that helps, and hope you don't mind me chiming in.

Cheers

Cheliax

For one thing, in my games I am allowing trait to use negative Charisma modifier as positive for the purposes of Intimidate feat. The thing is - there are not enough skills that use Charisma. Also, Charisma can be tied to some kind of new mechanic, like Fate Points (click on my profile to see what's that about). FPs can be used to change the outcome of certain things, so Charisma can be used to determine a number of FPs or something like that.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Wrath wrote:
Take a leaf from the dnd computer games Kirth. In a society where bartering over prices is the norm, make people with low charismas pay more gold for everything. Say, 5% per point below ten. I bet that stops stat dumping hehe. Hope that helps, and hope you don't mind me chiming in.

Not at all -- please feel free to chime in whenever you like -- I always appreciate your point of view.

In answer to your suggestion, I've thought about things like that, but deferred for two reasons: (1) it makes item crafters (predominantly casters) even more powerful, which I want to discourage; and (2) it means that I have to track gold carefully, which is something I hate doing. I'd rather people will end up with WBL-appropriate bonuses by default, and then they can spend their money on parties and castles and such.

Finally, haggling should be governed under skills ("negotiation" is a specific function of Diplomacy), rather than being a direct consequence of force of personality and nothing else.


male Hobgoblin (Elven lineage) 4th (2nd level monk, 1st level goblin paragon, 1st level worghest)

Ok, I think I've got everything. Feedback is appreciated. I always liked the concept of the Hungry Ghost Monk so I'll be looking at those Sutra's later on. Kind of a different take with monk abilities coming from an 'outside' source, interested to know if it will work, Kirth.


M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
Wyvurn wrote:
Feedback is appreciated.

Mechanical first:

  • You should have 12 hp: d10 HD + 2 (Con) = 12.
  • Likewise, your BAB is +1, for CMB +4 (+1, +2 Dex, +1 insight) and CMD 15 (10 + 4 CMB + 1 Agile Dodge).
  • Looks like you put your favored class bonus into skills?
  • Athletics should be +4 max (1 rank + 3 class skill +0 Str).
  • Weapon strike is +0 (standard rules in 3.0, 3.5, PF, etc.: ALWAYS round down fractions unless specifically stated otherwise). When you do get it, remember it won't stack with your Wis bonus to damage, as both of them are insight bonuses.


  • Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 31/42 (5 Temp) AC 27 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)
    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Jaeger "Knock Knock" wrote:
    Here is my character, in progress.
    Woah! "Appropriate for a 1st level character" doesn't mean "decked out in magic items." Quite the opposite! If people are going to totally abuse me not tracking wealth, with reluctance I'll have to start being a CPA about it. How about something within the bounds of a possible result for 1st level gold?

    I cut and paste from another one, I hadn't gone through gear yet, sorry about that. I did say a work in progress.... :)


    Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 31/42 (5 Temp) AC 27 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)
    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Wyvurn wrote:
    Feedback is appreciated.

    Mechanical first:

  • Weapon strike is +0 (standard rules in 3.0, 3.5, PF, etc.: ALWAYS round down fractions unless specifically stated otherwise). When you do get it, remember it won't stack with your Wis bonus to damage, as both of them are insight bonuses.
  • Related question for me then, I chose Personal Weapon as I could make my pick axe a +1. The wording had me question this fighter feat as supposed to be a minimum of 4th level. The first half makes it sound like it is at least always a +1

    Personal Weapon wrote:
    Choose a specific weapon (not a weapon category or type of weapon) you own, and with which you are proficient. When wielding that specific weapon, treat its enhancement bonus as 1 greater than is actually the case (a non-magical weapon is +1 in your hands, a +1 weapon is +2, etc.) for all purposes. If the weapon is already magical, you can instead add a +1 equivalent property (such as flaming). Once chosen, the property cannot be changed.

    Then the second half is worded differently and why I quoted the above

    Personal Weapon wrote:
    The effective bonus of your personal weapon increases by +1 per 4 class levels you possess (maximum +5 at 20th level). The total bonus can be applied as an enhancement bonus, or in the form of weapon properties, or any combination of the two, as long as the total enhancement bonus is at least +1. These allocations can be changed using your Weapon

    At first I thought at 4th level the bonus would be +2, but then realized it wouldn't be until 8th. Should there be a 4th level requirement, or is it +1 minimum?

    Thanks and I'll have the equipment picked and cleaned up after the Packer game. I also decided to stick with the higher Charisma. As much as the idea I had for a higher Wis, I don't like having that low of a stat.


    M somewhat akin to a kender Y / MA

    no problem with crunch,
    I will get him right
    Work in progress....


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    Jaeger "Knock Knock" wrote:
    Personal Weapon wrote:
    The effective bonus of your personal weapon increases by +1 per 4 class levels you possess (maximum +5 at 20th level). The total bonus can be applied as an enhancement bonus, or in the form of weapon properties, or any combination of the two, as long as the total enhancement bonus is at least +1. These allocations can be changed using your Weapon

    At first I thought at 4th level the bonus would be +2...

    Yes, that's correct. +1 when you get it, +2 at 4th, +3 at 8th, +4 at 12th, +5 at 16th... ah, I see the problem. Should be maximum +6 at 20th. I'm very embarrassed at the number of typos -- apologies all around.


    Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 31/42 (5 Temp) AC 27 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)
    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    I'm very embarrassed at the number of typos -- apologies all around.

    No worries, that is part of why we are doing this, right?

    My Equipment is updated, should be close to average wealth for 1st level (I was thinking of going for Chaimail, but that would have definately put me over.)

    I have my background mostly done in my head, anything specific you looking for in that?


    One more question, as I was updating the profile the wording on this seemed confusing. I think I understand where it is going, but it seems to contradict itself. (Or else I am up too late)

    combat expertise wrote:


    You can only choose to use this feat when you declare that you are making an attack or full-attack action with a melee weapon. You gain a +1 dodge bonus to your armor class for 1 round. For every 4 points of your base attack bonus, the bonus to AC increases by +1. You take a penalty on all attack rolls that round equal to the AC bonus gained.

    That is pretty straight forward. To use this feat I need to make a melee attack.

    combat expertise wrote:


    If you choose to give up all of your normal attacks for the round, the attack penalty (for resolving attacks of opportunity) and bonus to AC are doubled (+2, +2 for every 4 points of BAB).

    This seems to say to me that you can use the feat without attacking. Is it a case that you can activate the stance when attacking, and if you do not move or change stances the next round yet don't attack anything that round the second part applies? If that is the case should the first part I quoted say something like "You gain a +1 dodge bonus to your armor class for as long as you maintain this stance"

    Hope that makes sense, it is late, I need to go to sleep.

    Cheliax

    Kirth, I have few questions about Battle Sorcerer of Human variety and Fiendish bloodline:

    "Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Battle sorcerers have Simple proficiency with all weapons, and also gain Martial Weapon Proficiency with one weapon group of their choice.

    Weapon Familiarity: Humans gain no automatic proficiencies. Those who possess Martial Weapon Proficiency (heavy blades) gain free Exotic proficiency with bastard swords."

    Does that mean that I can take Martial Weapon Proficiency (heavy blades) as Battle Sorcerer and gain free Exotic proficiency with bastard swords?

    Further, Fiendish Bloodline states that one of the bonus feats is Improved Familiar(Imp), but that bloodline does not have arcane bond as first level ability. Can I still take Improved Familiar at appropriate level?

    Cheliax

    One other thing: Shouldn't Intimidate be a class skill for Battle Sorcerer?

    Cheliax

    4d6 ⇒ (5, 5, 1, 6) = 17 = 16
    4d6 ⇒ (3, 3, 1, 2) = 9 = 8
    4d6 ⇒ (6, 4, 6, 4) = 20 = 16
    4d6 ⇒ (6, 5, 2, 4) = 17 = 15
    4d6 ⇒ (2, 2, 6, 6) = 16 = 14
    4d6 ⇒ (1, 2, 5, 3) = 11 = 10

    Okay, I was pretty much at a loss what character to create with those first rolls. I have rerolled and I'd like to use these new rolls, with your permission of course. I'd like to tray Battle Sorcerer of Northwind ancestry going into Prestige Paladin, perhaps, if you would allow it. I'd like to go with Fiendish Bloodline and ultimately create a conflicted type of character, who struggles against himself and his hellish masters. Or, perhaps, one who does evil in the service of greater good.


    male Hobgoblin (Elven lineage) 4th (2nd level monk, 1st level goblin paragon, 1st level worghest)
    Kirth Gersen wrote:
    Wyvurn wrote:
    Feedback is appreciated.

    Mechanical first:

  • You should have 12 hp: d10 HD + 2 (Con) = 12.
  • Likewise, your BAB is +1, for CMB +4 (+1, +2 Dex, +1 insight) and CMD 15 (10 + 4 CMB + 1 Agile Dodge).
  • Looks like you put your favored class bonus into skills?
  • Athletics should be +4 max (1 rank + 3 class skill +0 Str).
  • Weapon strike is +0 (standard rules in 3.0, 3.5, PF, etc.: ALWAYS round down fractions unless specifically stated otherwise). When you do get it, remember it won't stack with your Wis bonus to damage, as both of them are insight bonuses.
  • Thanks. Too much playing around with attributes--and I ended up switching them around a little more. Didn't even see the bonuses for weapon strike and zen warrior were the same. I swapped it to keen senses. Will that increase my racial darkvision?


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    Tangible Delusions wrote:
    One more question, combat expertise

    3.X/PF had "Fighting Defensively" and "Total Defense," which for some reason were a totally separate mechanic from Combat Expertise. I've combined the mechanics, so that Combat Expertise is now an "improved" version. It therefore has two "modes" of use: fighting defensively (you attack at a penalty and get the AC bonus), and total defense (forego attacks and get a better AC bonus). There's a summary table and description in the main Houserules document, under "Combat Rules."


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    nightflier wrote:
    Okay, I was pretty much at a loss what character to create with those first rolls. I have rerolled and I'd like to use these new rolls, with your permission of course. I'd like to tray Battle Sorcerer of Northwind ancestry going into Prestige Paladin, perhaps, if you would allow it. I'd like to go with Fiendish Bloodline and ultimately create a conflicted type of character, who struggles against himself and his hellish masters. Or, perhaps, one who does evil in the service of greater good.

    Green light on all sides. I can't wait to see how that works out!


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    nightflier wrote:
    One other thing: Shouldn't Intimidate be a class skill for Battle Sorcerer?

    Intimidate has been rolled into Bluff.


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    nightflier wrote:

    1. Does that mean that I can take Martial Weapon Proficiency (heavy blades) as Battle Sorcerer and gain free Exotic proficiency with bastard swords?

    2. Further, Fiendish Bloodline states that one of the bonus feats is Improved Familiar(Imp), but that bloodline does not have arcane bond as first level ability. Can I still take Improved Familiar at appropriate level?

    1. Only if you're human, but yes, you can.

    2. Yes, but you'd need "Obtain Familiar" as a feat before that.


    M Goblin Beer Snob 1/Freethinker 3
    Wyvurn wrote:
    I swapped it to keen senses. Will that increase my racial darkvision?

    That's a VERY good question -- the fact that I hadn't thought of it shows how uncommon non-human/non-elves are in the campaign setting. How about this, as a clarification:

    Keen Senses wrote:
    You gain darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, and scent. If you already have darkvision, the range is increased by 30 ft. If you already have low-light vision, you can see three times as far as a normal human in dim light, rather than twice as far.


    Male Mountain Dwarf Fighter/4 HP 31/42 (5 Temp) AC 27 FF 22 T 14 Fort +8 Ref +7 Will +4 Intuit +3 CMD 22 Init +3 (+5 Underground)

    I think am done. Let me know if I missed anything or did anything wrong

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